Gop wants to reduce what private insurance covers and the dims want to end private insurance.

[Brain357]

So you are saying people look for the best surgeon and don’t shop price. I agree, that’s why markets don’t work in healthcare.

One part of healthcare has not been covered by insurance and we have seen quality consistently go up while prices have cone down, and that's Lasik eye surgery. Today, you can get it done on sale or you can pay a lot, it's up to you. And yes, you see ads touting low costs.

Interesting example. Looks like price has gone up however.

The average cost of LASIK surgery performed the United States in 2017 was $2,088 per eye, according to a report prepared for All About Vision by a leading vision care industry analytics company.

This is slightly higher than the average price for LASIK performed in the U.S. in 2016, which was $2,059 per eye.



https://www.allaboutvision.com/visionsurgery/cost.htm

That's how all products work.
It comes out, it's expensive so only rich people can get it
then the price drastically comes down....then after it stabilizes it goes up yearly just like anything else
So yes healthcare is a product just like any other in the US......which is why shopping will work to reduce costs.

But it’s not. When it comes to life or death, people aren’t great consumers.

No they really are.
Do you live in the US?
People will shop for their own funeral stuff.......keyword SHOP
they will shop for their own doctor.......the reason they don't now, is the system doesn't let them.

So frugal...


Consumer debt hits $4 trillion — a record high

 

[Cecilie1200]

So you are saying people look for the best surgeon and don’t shop price. I agree, that’s why markets don’t work in healthcare.

One part of healthcare has not been covered by insurance and we have seen quality consistently go up while prices have cone down, and that's Lasik eye surgery. Today, you can get it done on sale or you can pay a lot, it's up to you. And yes, you see ads touting low costs.

Interesting example. Looks like price has gone up however.

The average cost of LASIK surgery performed the United States in 2017 was $2,088 per eye, according to a report prepared for All About Vision by a leading vision care industry analytics company.

This is slightly higher than the average price for LASIK performed in the U.S. in 2016, which was $2,059 per eye.



https://www.allaboutvision.com/visionsurgery/cost.htm

That's how all products work.
It comes out, it's expensive so only rich people can get it
then the price drastically comes down....then after it stabilizes it goes up yearly just like anything else
So yes healthcare is a product just like any other in the US......which is why shopping will work to reduce costs.

But it’s not. When it comes to life or death, people aren’t great consumers.

No they really are.
Do you live in the US?
People will shop for their own funeral stuff.......keyword SHOP
they will shop for their own doctor.......the reason they don't now, is the system doesn't let them.

True. Even if you WANTED to price shop medical care, they wouldn't be able to simply give you a price, because there isn't one set price. They'd have to run in through the billing software for whatever payer and mail it to you later.

Unless you want to hear the price as a self-pay.

 

[Brain357]

Interesting example. Looks like price has gone up however.

The average cost of LASIK surgery performed the United States in 2017 was $2,088 per eye, according to a report prepared for All About Vision by a leading vision care industry analytics company.

This is slightly higher than the average price for LASIK performed in the U.S. in 2016, which was $2,059 per eye.



https://www.allaboutvision.com/visionsurgery/cost.htm

That's how all products work.
It comes out, it's expensive so only rich people can get it
then the price drastically comes down....then after it stabilizes it goes up yearly just like anything else
So yes healthcare is a product just like any other in the US......which is why shopping will work to reduce costs.

But it’s not. When it comes to life or death, people aren’t great consumers.

No they really are.
Do you live in the US?
People will shop for their own funeral stuff.......keyword SHOP
they will shop for their own doctor.......the reason they don't now, is the system doesn't let them.

Sure. So somebody needs life saving surgery. You think they will pick the Chevy surgery over the Lexus surgery. That is funny.

Well why do they pick Chevys over Lexus now?

Because the Chevy will get you there just as well. Now death from a bad surgery is quite different...

 

[dblack]

A poor one. It wasn't by choice. I did what I had to do. And found out it's not nearly as scary as the insurance salesmen want you to believe.

You're making the case for catastrophic insurance - which I support. But this ridiculous fantasy that insurance is a club you join to have the bulk of your health care paid for by someone else killing us. Peddle your snake oil somewhere else, insurance salesman.

I'm for Medicare for all & fuck the insurance guy.

Uh huh. Medicare is farmed out to insurance companies. You're not fooling anyone.

The clerical work needs done. Are you confising clerivpcal work with how the plan is enacted?

I'm pointing out that insurance companies make big bucks from Medicare now. "Medicare for All" will be an even bigger cash cow for them.

Big 5 insurers depend on Medicare, Medicaid for growth in enrollment, profits

A poor one. It wasn't by choice. I did what I had to do. And found out it's not nearly as scary as the insurance salesmen want you to believe.

You're making the case for catastrophic insurance - which I support. But this ridiculous fantasy that insurance is a club you join to have the bulk of your health care paid for by someone else killing us. Peddle your snake oil somewhere else, insurance salesman.

I'm for Medicare for all & fuck the insurance guy.

Uh huh. Medicare is farmed out to insurance companies. You're not fooling anyone.

The clerical work needs done. Are you confising clerivpcal work with how the plan is enacted?

I'm pointing out that insurance companies make big bucks from Medicare now. "Medicare for All" will be an even bigger cash cow for them.

Big 5 insurers depend on Medicare, Medicaid for growth in enrollment, profits

So you say, here's a link:

$42 Billion of Medicare and Medicaid Fraud Thwarted by ‘Big Data’ Analytics

Greed Report: Obamacare was supposed to fight health care fraud. How’s that working out?

Crackdown on Medicare Fraud Is Producing Some Impressive Results

Um... ok. Random links about Medicare fraud. Are you sure you're not responding to someone else's post? This has nothing to do with my comments.

Has the Trump Administration done anything such as this or is he too busy playing golf, tweeting, attacking HRC and Obama and saying "no collusion"?

I don't know and don't care. Again, does this in any way relate to my post? Did you even read it? Have you been following the thread at all?

 

[dblack]

Which claim? My claim the political divide in the US is corrosive and destructive? That health care would be used as a carrot/stick by aspiring politicians? Do you really deny these things?

You don’t have an example of it happening with healthcare. Last I checked Dems and repubs have same healthcare needs.

Luckily, I can just copy and paste this. Guess you didn't see my previous post:

Let's start with the glaringly obvious: women's reproductive health care. Do you think Republicans would try to limit insurance coverage for abortion or birth control? You know they would. What about mental health? Most of them think it's fake news. Services for homosexuals? AIDS research? I could go on and on, but you either get it already, or are so deep in denial you'll never face reality.

Making health care a government responsibility will make it a political football, that will be whipped out every single elections to scare and coerce voters. Let's not.

You don’t think republican women get abortions and use birth control? That’s funny.

Where did I say that? Another strawman I guess. Can't you just focus on the actual arguments?

Then it would be politically bad for repubs to mess with it. Try to keep up.

No, it wouldn't. They won the last election on these kind of issues. Is your head still in the sand regarding that fact? Do you really trust the Republicans to make your health care decisions for you?

 

[Brain357]

You don’t have an example of it happening with healthcare. Last I checked Dems and repubs have same healthcare needs.

Luckily, I can just copy and paste this. Guess you didn't see my previous post:

Let's start with the glaringly obvious: women's reproductive health care. Do you think Republicans would try to limit insurance coverage for abortion or birth control? You know they would. What about mental health? Most of them think it's fake news. Services for homosexuals? AIDS research? I could go on and on, but you either get it already, or are so deep in denial you'll never face reality.

Making health care a government responsibility will make it a political football, that will be whipped out every single elections to scare and coerce voters. Let's not.

You don’t think republican women get abortions and use birth control? That’s funny.

Where did I say that? Another strawman I guess. Can't you just focus on the actual arguments?

Then it would be politically bad for repubs to mess with it. Try to keep up.

No, it wouldn't. They won the last election on these kind of issues. Is your head still in the sand regarding that fact? Do you really trust the Republicans to make your health care decisions for you?

You just said both parties use them. So yes it would be politically bad . Dems and repubs have same healthcare needs.

 

[dblack]

Luckily, I can just copy and paste this. Guess you didn't see my previous post:

Let's start with the glaringly obvious: women's reproductive health care. Do you think Republicans would try to limit insurance coverage for abortion or birth control? You know they would. What about mental health? Most of them think it's fake news. Services for homosexuals? AIDS research? I could go on and on, but you either get it already, or are so deep in denial you'll never face reality.

Making health care a government responsibility will make it a political football, that will be whipped out every single elections to scare and coerce voters. Let's not.

You don’t think republican women get abortions and use birth control? That’s funny.

Where did I say that? Another strawman I guess. Can't you just focus on the actual arguments?

Then it would be politically bad for repubs to mess with it. Try to keep up.

No, it wouldn't. They won the last election on these kind of issues. Is your head still in the sand regarding that fact? Do you really trust the Republicans to make your health care decisions for you?

You just said both parties use them. So yes it would be politically bad . Dems and repubs have same healthcare needs.

Are you're really saying, with a straight face, that Republicans wouldn't try to monkey with health care for political reasons???

 

[Brain357]

You don’t think republican women get abortions and use birth control? That’s funny.

Where did I say that? Another strawman I guess. Can't you just focus on the actual arguments?

Then it would be politically bad for repubs to mess with it. Try to keep up.

No, it wouldn't. They won the last election on these kind of issues. Is your head still in the sand regarding that fact? Do you really trust the Republicans to make your health care decisions for you?

You just said both parties use them. So yes it would be politically bad . Dems and repubs have same healthcare needs.

Are you're really saying, with a straight face, that Republicans wouldn't try to monkey with health care for political reasons???

Yes. As long as Dems and repubs have the same healthcare needs. They always talk about cutting, how much actually happens?

 

[dblack]

Are you're really saying, with a straight face, that Republicans wouldn't try to monkey with health care for political reasons???

Yes. As long as Dems and repubs have the same healthcare needs. They always talk about cutting, how much actually happens?

Wow. You have a lot more faith in Republicans than I do.

 

[Brain357]

Are you're really saying, with a straight face, that Republicans wouldn't try to monkey with health care for political reasons???

Yes. As long as Dems and repubs have the same healthcare needs. They always talk about cutting, how much actually happens?

Wow. You have a lot more faith in Republicans than I do.

They look after themselves politically.

 

[hadit]

I haven't seen all the details.....but lets assume it is......the government isn't going to let a surgeon charge what he wants, so that's budget surgery, correct?

Not if they are all charging the same $$.

Wow, you don't think do you. So all surgeons are the same? Maybe you get the really experienced one or maybe you get the joker just out of MedSchool who finished last in his class......
Oh and since it's the government, and you cant get fired....why try and learn new techniques, you cant monetize it.....you get zero out of trying to improve yourself

So you are saying people look for the best surgeon and don’t shop price. I agree, that’s why markets don’t work in healthcare.

One part of healthcare has not been covered by insurance and we have seen quality consistently go up while prices have cone down, and that's Lasik eye surgery. Today, you can get it done on sale or you can pay a lot, it's up to you. And yes, you see ads touting low costs.

Interesting example. Looks like price has gone up however.

The average cost of LASIK surgery performed the United States in 2017 was $2,088 per eye, according to a report prepared for All About Vision by a leading vision care industry analytics company.

This is slightly higher than the average price for LASIK performed in the U.S. in 2016, which was $2,059 per eye.



https://www.allaboutvision.com/visionsurgery/cost.htm

I believe that may be due to the nature of the technology, and may reflect the natural commodity price of the product.

 

[buckeye45_73]

One part of healthcare has not been covered by insurance and we have seen quality consistently go up while prices have cone down, and that's Lasik eye surgery. Today, you can get it done on sale or you can pay a lot, it's up to you. And yes, you see ads touting low costs.

Interesting example. Looks like price has gone up however.

The average cost of LASIK surgery performed the United States in 2017 was $2,088 per eye, according to a report prepared for All About Vision by a leading vision care industry analytics company.

This is slightly higher than the average price for LASIK performed in the U.S. in 2016, which was $2,059 per eye.



https://www.allaboutvision.com/visionsurgery/cost.htm

That's how all products work.
It comes out, it's expensive so only rich people can get it
then the price drastically comes down....then after it stabilizes it goes up yearly just like anything else
So yes healthcare is a product just like any other in the US......which is why shopping will work to reduce costs.

But it’s not. When it comes to life or death, people aren’t great consumers.

No they really are.
Do you live in the US?
People will shop for their own funeral stuff.......keyword SHOP
they will shop for their own doctor.......the reason they don't now, is the system doesn't let them.

So frugal...


Consumer debt hits $4 trillion — a record high

Wow, you don't do any actual thinking do you?
That has nothing to do with getting deals......

 

[hadit]

So, you are lying on the floor getting CPR & you are calling for quotes? Really?>

See this is a bullshit post.....
If you need CPR you are going to the emergency room......just like......drum roll...........we do now......your example is bullshit
Most people see doctors, like cardiologists and they can call them and get quotes......it's amazing how that works.

Most people choose dotors by reputation. I know of no one calling for quotes. You are lying as usual.

Show of hands, everyone who assumes that because "Assfuck Dave" doesn't personally know someone doing something, it never happens. Anyone?

Of course people don't often ask for prices for regular medical care. BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE TO PAY THE BILL. Duuuuhhh. They DO, however, ask about prices for things they DO have to pay for themselves. Take a look at cosmetic surgery, for example. Unless it's reconstructive due to a trauma, it's not covered by most insurances. And you'd best believe people do NOT sign up for it without finding out how much it's gonna cost first.

Another area in healthcare where innovation continues, costs come down and quality goes up.

Dental and vision care are also places where a lot of self-pay happens, either because people don't have plans at all, or because their plans don't cover a lot. Ever seen those commercials for eyeglass centers and their BOGO sales? That's why.

That is true. Insurance is great for catastrophic care, but tends to inflate costs when treated like welfare.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Where did I say that? Another strawman I guess. Can't you just focus on the actual arguments?

Then it would be politically bad for repubs to mess with it. Try to keep up.

No, it wouldn't. They won the last election on these kind of issues. Is your head still in the sand regarding that fact? Do you really trust the Republicans to make your health care decisions for you?

You just said both parties use them. So yes it would be politically bad . Dems and repubs have same healthcare needs.

Are you're really saying, with a straight face, that Republicans wouldn't try to monkey with health care for political reasons???

Yes. As long as Dems and repubs have the same healthcare needs. They always talk about cutting, how much actually happens?

None, because the right tries, the left throws a fit and the right backs off......the problem is we need leaders not politicians......and voila.......President Trump

 

[Brain357]

Not if they are all charging the same $$.

Wow, you don't think do you. So all surgeons are the same? Maybe you get the really experienced one or maybe you get the joker just out of MedSchool who finished last in his class......
Oh and since it's the government, and you cant get fired....why try and learn new techniques, you cant monetize it.....you get zero out of trying to improve yourself

So you are saying people look for the best surgeon and don’t shop price. I agree, that’s why markets don’t work in healthcare.

One part of healthcare has not been covered by insurance and we have seen quality consistently go up while prices have cone down, and that's Lasik eye surgery. Today, you can get it done on sale or you can pay a lot, it's up to you. And yes, you see ads touting low costs.

Interesting example. Looks like price has gone up however.

The average cost of LASIK surgery performed the United States in 2017 was $2,088 per eye, according to a report prepared for All About Vision by a leading vision care industry analytics company.

This is slightly higher than the average price for LASIK performed in the U.S. in 2016, which was $2,059 per eye.



https://www.allaboutvision.com/visionsurgery/cost.htm

I believe that may be due to the nature of the technology, and may reflect the natural commodity price of the product.

Maybe. It has a lot of competition from glasses and contact lenses. It’s easy to pass on, not like needing heart surgery.

 

[hadit]

One part of healthcare has not been covered by insurance and we have seen quality consistently go up while prices have cone down, and that's Lasik eye surgery. Today, you can get it done on sale or you can pay a lot, it's up to you. And yes, you see ads touting low costs.

Interesting example. Looks like price has gone up however.

The average cost of LASIK surgery performed the United States in 2017 was $2,088 per eye, according to a report prepared for All About Vision by a leading vision care industry analytics company.

This is slightly higher than the average price for LASIK performed in the U.S. in 2016, which was $2,059 per eye.



https://www.allaboutvision.com/visionsurgery/cost.htm

That's how all products work.
It comes out, it's expensive so only rich people can get it
then the price drastically comes down....then after it stabilizes it goes up yearly just like anything else
So yes healthcare is a product just like any other in the US......which is why shopping will work to reduce costs.

But it’s not. When it comes to life or death, people aren’t great consumers.

No they really are.
Do you live in the US?
People will shop for their own funeral stuff.......keyword SHOP
they will shop for their own doctor.......the reason they don't now, is the system doesn't let them.

Sure. So somebody needs life saving surgery. You think they will pick the Chevy surgery over the Lexus surgery. That is funny.

As is the case with virtually everything, there are extremes that contest the rule. For the vast majority of healthcare concerns, the lowest cost may will suffice. When dealing with life and death, not so much.

 

[Brain357]

Then it would be politically bad for repubs to mess with it. Try to keep up.

No, it wouldn't. They won the last election on these kind of issues. Is your head still in the sand regarding that fact? Do you really trust the Republicans to make your health care decisions for you?

You just said both parties use them. So yes it would be politically bad . Dems and repubs have same healthcare needs.

Are you're really saying, with a straight face, that Republicans wouldn't try to monkey with health care for political reasons???

Yes. As long as Dems and repubs have the same healthcare needs. They always talk about cutting, how much actually happens?

None, because the right tries, the left throws a fit and the right backs off......the problem is we need leaders not politicians......and voila.......President Trump

Trump is turning us into Greece with all the spending...

 

[buckeye45_73]

That's how all products work.
It comes out, it's expensive so only rich people can get it
then the price drastically comes down....then after it stabilizes it goes up yearly just like anything else
So yes healthcare is a product just like any other in the US......which is why shopping will work to reduce costs.

But it’s not. When it comes to life or death, people aren’t great consumers.

No they really are.
Do you live in the US?
People will shop for their own funeral stuff.......keyword SHOP
they will shop for their own doctor.......the reason they don't now, is the system doesn't let them.

Sure. So somebody needs life saving surgery. You think they will pick the Chevy surgery over the Lexus surgery. That is funny.

Well why do they pick Chevys over Lexus now?

Because the Chevy will get you there just as well. Now death from a bad surgery is quite different...

Well Volvos are the safest cars...why not get those?
Ok so everyone uses the best surgeon in the world? He must be tired right now..........yes that's sarcasm
An d notice how he is only obsessed with life/death care which is a small amount of health care....I love it when they do that, like rape with abortion......yeah lets ignore everything else because of a .2% chance.

 

[Brain357]

Interesting example. Looks like price has gone up however.

The average cost of LASIK surgery performed the United States in 2017 was $2,088 per eye, according to a report prepared for All About Vision by a leading vision care industry analytics company.

This is slightly higher than the average price for LASIK performed in the U.S. in 2016, which was $2,059 per eye.



https://www.allaboutvision.com/visionsurgery/cost.htm

That's how all products work.
It comes out, it's expensive so only rich people can get it
then the price drastically comes down....then after it stabilizes it goes up yearly just like anything else
So yes healthcare is a product just like any other in the US......which is why shopping will work to reduce costs.

But it’s not. When it comes to life or death, people aren’t great consumers.

No they really are.
Do you live in the US?
People will shop for their own funeral stuff.......keyword SHOP
they will shop for their own doctor.......the reason they don't now, is the system doesn't let them.

Sure. So somebody needs life saving surgery. You think they will pick the Chevy surgery over the Lexus surgery. That is funny.

As is the case with virtually everything, there are extremes that contest the rule. For the vast majority of healthcare concerns, the lowest cost may will suffice. When dealing with life and death, not so much.

And the life and death ones break the bank...

 

[buckeye45_73]

No, it wouldn't. They won the last election on these kind of issues. Is your head still in the sand regarding that fact? Do you really trust the Republicans to make your health care decisions for you?

You just said both parties use them. So yes it would be politically bad . Dems and repubs have same healthcare needs.

Are you're really saying, with a straight face, that Republicans wouldn't try to monkey with health care for political reasons???

Yes. As long as Dems and repubs have the same healthcare needs. They always talk about cutting, how much actually happens?

None, because the right tries, the left throws a fit and the right backs off......the problem is we need leaders not politicians......and voila.......President Trump

Trump is turning us into Greece with all the spending...

Oh Obama showed fiscal restraint........are you trolling or just high?