Government Should Teach Traditional Values

[Sky Dancer]

That has to be the most thought out and concise rebuttal I have ever seen

Hardly. It's just blaming liberals for every social problem that exists in the US or the world. None of these represent liberal values. They represent a hodgepodge of general complaints, rants and whines that conservatives want to blame on liberals.

Liberal values include civil rights, reproductive choice, free access to public education, separation of church and state, anti-war, abolition of the death penalty, health care reform, privacy, affirmative action, legislation to break business monopolies, workers rights, tolerance of difference, protecting minorities against the tyranny of the majority, helping those less fortunate, not allowing the government to act on the basis of sectarian faith, courts have a responsibility to protect individual liberties, government should protect the safety and security of it's citizens without sacrificing constitutional values.

Let's see, how I understand that:

civil rights: vote to legally steal off of people that have worked for wealth and give it to people that have no interest in improving themselves

reproductive choice: remove the father from the family, allow women to be used as penis receptacles (Dr. Laura S), and allow irresponsible women that won't use birth control correctly to murder their "mistakes"

free access to public education: where the "children" will be taught what is socially "acceptable", and to ignore their parents' beliefs, sex is taught before math, reading, and writing, history is selectively taught and ignored (this is still the greatest nation (not communism, not socialism) that ever existed on the face of the planet, and it improved life for people world wide because anyone that has ever heard of the freedoms here, want the same where they live)

separation of church and state: elimination of any public statements about Christianity, but WICCA and islam are all good

anti-war: bankrupt the nation, until there is no way to defend the borders, and then we all become slaves to the most ruthless

abolition of the death penalty: it is okay to murder babies, but it is not okay to kill those that commit the most awful crimes against their fellow man (ensuring the crimes are NOT repeated)

health care reform: give the government (anyone that is in charge) complete control over your bodies' health choices, and the power to say "who" gets treatments and "who" doesn't

privacy: all your personal information is monitored by the federal gov't, with health records open to the IRS. Is it now close to 25% of the population that works for gov't, and will have "access" to all citizens' information

affirmative action: This may have made things better when it started, but now is being used by people that have no intention of doing the actual job, to sue employers, and abuse the "system"

legislation to break business monopolies: the gov't gets to choose which companies succeed and which companies are punished (using regulations) making the government lawmakers wide open for corruption

workers rights: force "people"(that would be employers) to give more than someone's work is worth, inflating prices

tolerance of difference: legislate misbehaviour as acceptable

protecting minorities against the tyranny of the majority: allow minorities to break the law, while requiring tax payers to subsidize them

helping those less fortunate: allowing the "government" to decide who is less fortunate, opening the gov't to widespread corruption

not allowing the government to act on the basis of sectarian faith: eliminating any trace of Judeo/Christian values and embracing corruption

courts have a responsibility to protect individual liberties: re-define the purpose of the courts, originally made to see that the law was upheld, equally.

government should protect the safety and security of it's citizens without sacrificing constitutional values: re-write the Constitution into socialism (that ends up collapsing and installing dictators in the "gov't")

I know what you said sounded so good, but it just doesn't turn out that way.

No point talking to you.

 

[logical4u]

Hardly. It's just blaming liberals for every social problem that exists in the US or the world. None of these represent liberal values. They represent a hodgepodge of general complaints, rants and whines that conservatives want to blame on liberals.

Liberal values include civil rights, reproductive choice, free access to public education, separation of church and state, anti-war, abolition of the death penalty, health care reform, privacy, affirmative action, legislation to break business monopolies, workers rights, tolerance of difference, protecting minorities against the tyranny of the majority, helping those less fortunate, not allowing the government to act on the basis of sectarian faith, courts have a responsibility to protect individual liberties, government should protect the safety and security of it's citizens without sacrificing constitutional values.

Let's see, how I understand that:

civil rights: vote to legally steal off of people that have worked for wealth and give it to people that have no interest in improving themselves

reproductive choice: remove the father from the family, allow women to be used as penis receptacles (Dr. Laura S), and allow irresponsible women that won't use birth control correctly to murder their "mistakes"

free access to public education: where the "children" will be taught what is socially "acceptable", and to ignore their parents' beliefs, sex is taught before math, reading, and writing, history is selectively taught and ignored (this is still the greatest nation (not communism, not socialism) that ever existed on the face of the planet, and it improved life for people world wide because anyone that has ever heard of the freedoms here, want the same where they live)

separation of church and state: elimination of any public statements about Christianity, but WICCA and islam are all good

anti-war: bankrupt the nation, until there is no way to defend the borders, and then we all become slaves to the most ruthless

abolition of the death penalty: it is okay to murder babies, but it is not okay to kill those that commit the most awful crimes against their fellow man (ensuring the crimes are NOT repeated)

health care reform: give the government (anyone that is in charge) complete control over your bodies' health choices, and the power to say "who" gets treatments and "who" doesn't

privacy: all your personal information is monitored by the federal gov't, with health records open to the IRS. Is it now close to 25% of the population that works for gov't, and will have "access" to all citizens' information

affirmative action: This may have made things better when it started, but now is being used by people that have no intention of doing the actual job, to sue employers, and abuse the "system"

legislation to break business monopolies: the gov't gets to choose which companies succeed and which companies are punished (using regulations) making the government lawmakers wide open for corruption

workers rights: force "people"(that would be employers) to give more than someone's work is worth, inflating prices

tolerance of difference: legislate misbehaviour as acceptable

protecting minorities against the tyranny of the majority: allow minorities to break the law, while requiring tax payers to subsidize them

helping those less fortunate: allowing the "government" to decide who is less fortunate, opening the gov't to widespread corruption

not allowing the government to act on the basis of sectarian faith: eliminating any trace of Judeo/Christian values and embracing corruption

courts have a responsibility to protect individual liberties: re-define the purpose of the courts, originally made to see that the law was upheld, equally.

government should protect the safety and security of it's citizens without sacrificing constitutional values: re-write the Constitution into socialism (that ends up collapsing and installing dictators in the "gov't")

I know what you said sounded so good, but it just doesn't turn out that way.

No point talking to you.

This is the "typical" response from a liberal after spouting something they think sounds so great. You point out what one wants, often, one does not get. In fact if we were to do all those "liberal values", this country would be defenseless and overrun by the ruthless and cruel (that would mean that no part of "liberal values" would be achieved), and broken into territories run by dictators.
Liberals seem to think that people are searching the world over for someone, intellectually superior, to them, to tell them how to live their life, raise their children, and how to think. Each liberal you meet seems to think that "they", in particular, are that intellectually superior. When you inform them, that hey, I have a pretty good idea how to run my life, raise my children, and how to think, they want to pout and have hurt feelings because another person doesn't want to drop all their worldly possessions to follow their lead.
I enjoy talking to you, at least you "try" to respond with some thought, instead of immediately going into "pout mode". I guess all you libs have your limits, though.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

My guess is you have AN idea how to run your life, raise your children, etc. First sign of any population based study that shows a better way, aka intellectual reasoning, and yall get all hurt. "How dare you tell me I need to vaccinate my children! I know damn well what to do without you! My credentials?! Well... I had unprotected sex. That more than qualifies me to make life-changing decisions that will affect the long term health and well being of my children. Go take your liberal ideas and scram!"

Conservatives: well-credentialed parents since the dawn of unprotected sex.

 

[daveman]

My guess is you have AN idea how to run your life, raise your children, etc. First sign of any population based study that shows a better way, aka intellectual reasoning, and yall get all hurt. "How dare you tell me I need to vaccinate my children! I know damn well what to do without you! My credentials?! Well... I had unprotected sex. That more than qualifies me to make life-changing decisions that will affect the long term health and well being of my children. Go take your liberal ideas and scram!"

Conservatives: well-credentialed parents since the dawn of unprotected sex.

Read my signature. It applies to you.

 

[midcan5]

If you get your impressions from the Old Left Media, the following Gallup poll may come
as a shock!

This Gallup poll certainly came as a surprise to me...

In terms of expressing the view that view that government should do what it can to promote traditional values in society guess which age group showed the highest support!!!

C'mon....guess!

[..]

Meaning??? The end is near for the Left!

Hallelujah!!

This is sorta weird as traditional American values of opportunity, law, sound and honest business practices, supporting America, working hard, being tolerant of all, level playing field, are all liberal values.

Controlling and monitoring the lives of others, intolerance, removing legal rights, torture, illegal war, booing veterans, not caring for the sick, scapegoating, not working together, and corporate greed are all modern conservative republican values.

Do I have you guys wrong? Nah, you simply don't face up to what you have become. You hide behind a smoke screen in which it is always the other who is at fault.

You can find yourself here: http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-flame-zone/189696-libertarian-flame.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/186726-republican-ideology-through-history.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...es-of-midcans-insights-into-contemporary.html


PS Just bought another American car made by Americans. Good for us and liberals who still support America.

 

[Samson]

My guess is you have AN idea how to run your life, raise your children, etc. First sign of any population based study that shows a better way, aka intellectual reasoning, and yall get all hurt. "How dare you tell me I need to vaccinate my children! I know damn well what to do without you! My credentials?! Well... I had unprotected sex. That more than qualifies me to make life-changing decisions that will affect the long term health and well being of my children. Go take your liberal ideas and scram!"

Conservatives: well-credentialed parents since the dawn of unprotected sex.

Liberals (20% of the population according to a "population based study"): the ability to ignore individual liberty whenever it doesn't suit their agenda.

 

[Katzndogz]

The govenment is teaching values. That's all they do is teach whateve values the government thinks we should have. They teach their values to the exclusion of any actual education.

 

[Samson]

The govenment is teaching values. That's all they do is teach whateve values the government thinks we should have. They teach their values to the exclusion of any actual education.

Yet here you are, writing and reading.........

 

[Foxfyre]

If you get your impressions from the Old Left Media, the following Gallup poll may come
as a shock!

This Gallup poll certainly came as a surprise to me...

In terms of expressing the view that view that government should do what it can to promote traditional values in society guess which age group showed the highest support!!!

C'mon....guess!

[..]

Meaning??? The end is near for the Left!

Hallelujah!!

This is sorta weird as traditional American values of opportunity, law, sound and honest business practices, supporting America, working hard, being tolerant of all, level playing field, are all liberal values.

Controlling and monitoring the lives of others, intolerance, removing legal rights, torture, illegal war, booing veterans, not caring for the sick, scapegoating, not working together, and corporate greed are all modern conservative republican values.

Do I have you guys wrong? Nah, you simply don't face up to what you have become. You hide behind a smoke screen in which it is always the other who is at fault.

You can find yourself here: http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-flame-zone/189696-libertarian-flame.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/186726-republican-ideology-through-history.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...es-of-midcans-insights-into-contemporary.html


PS Just bought another American car made by Americans. Good for us and liberals who still support America.

And then there are the poor souls who seem to have NO CLUE re what liberals or conservatives think, believe, or want in this country as testified by the post quoted here.

 

[Katzndogz]

The govenment is teaching values. That's all they do is teach whateve values the government thinks we should have. They teach their values to the exclusion of any actual education.

Yet here you are, writing and reading.........

For one thing, I went to school when values and education were really taught and if you gave the teacher trouble, the principle had a paddle to deal with it.

The state of public education today in the US is worse than dismal. We have failed in every area of education.

 

[Foxfyre]

The govenment is teaching values. That's all they do is teach whateve values the government thinks we should have. They teach their values to the exclusion of any actual education.

Yet here you are, writing and reading.........

For one thing, I went to school when values and education were really taught and if you gave the teacher trouble, the principle had a paddle to deal with it.

The state of public education today in the US is worse than dismal. We have failed in every area of education.

But the values taught were respect for legitimate authority including parents and teachers, patriotism, responsibility (it's up to you to do your homework); punctuality (get to class on time; turn your homework in as scheduled); excellence (those receiving A's and B's earn them by actually doing the work and proving they learned the material); manners (don't disrupt the classroom, remove your hat in class, rise when your elders enter the room, etc.); propriety (pants on the ground or halter tops and skirts up to your hoo ha are not appropriate attire for school) and such as that.

And yes, our schools are the poorer for all those values being abandoned.

 

[Katzndogz]

Yet here you are, writing and reading.........

For one thing, I went to school when values and education were really taught and if you gave the teacher trouble, the principle had a paddle to deal with it.

The state of public education today in the US is worse than dismal. We have failed in every area of education.

But the values taught were respect for legitimate authority including parents and teachers, patriotism, responsibility (it's up to you to do your homework); punctuality (get to class on time; turn your homework in as scheduled); excellence (those receiving A's and B's earn them by actually doing the work and proving they learned the material); manners (don't disrupt the classroom, remove your hat in class, rise when your elders enter the room, etc.); propriety (pants on the ground or halter tops and skirts up to your hoo ha are not appropriate attire for school) and such as that.

And yes, our schools are the poorer for all those values being abandoned.

Many if not all those values were taught in the home and in the church. Values that the educational system today had determined to be unnecessary if not wrong.

 

[daws101]

That has to be the most thought out and concise rebuttal I have ever seen

You realize that your sarcasm will bounce off the shit between daws' ears.

 

[Foxfyre]

For one thing, I went to school when values and education were really taught and if you gave the teacher trouble, the principle had a paddle to deal with it.

The state of public education today in the US is worse than dismal. We have failed in every area of education.

But the values taught were respect for legitimate authority including parents and teachers, patriotism, responsibility (it's up to you to do your homework); punctuality (get to class on time; turn your homework in as scheduled); excellence (those receiving A's and B's earn them by actually doing the work and proving they learned the material); manners (don't disrupt the classroom, remove your hat in class, rise when your elders enter the room, etc.); propriety (pants on the ground or halter tops and skirts up to your hoo ha are not appropriate attire for school) and such as that.

And yes, our schools are the poorer for all those values being abandoned.

Many if not all those values were taught in the home and in the church. Values that the educational system today had determined to be unnecessary if not wrong.

I was blessed to get an education when the schools were part of the community and reinforced the values taught in the home and church as listed above. Shared values of the community kept the people focused and strong, instilled character and beneficial attitudes in their citizens, and we were spared most of the ugly side of today's 'more enlightend' progressive attitudes.

Were there negatives in that society all those decades ago? Of course there were and no doubt some of our more 'progressive' brethren here will bring those up as though the negatives were all that existed in that time. Which of course is a crock, but they don't care and they aren't interested in seeing it any other way.

But this thread focuses on education, and I am 100% certain that the education the public schools provided in those days was far far superior to what most public schools provide today.

 

[Samson]

Yet here you are, writing and reading.........

For one thing, I went to school when values and education were really taught and if you gave the teacher trouble, the principle had a paddle to deal with it.

The state of public education today in the US is worse than dismal. We have failed in every area of education.

But the values taught were respect for legitimate authority including parents and teachers, patriotism, responsibility (it's up to you to do your homework); punctuality (get to class on time; turn your homework in as scheduled); excellence (those receiving A's and B's earn them by actually doing the work and proving they learned the material); manners (don't disrupt the classroom, remove your hat in class, rise when your elders enter the room, etc.); propriety (pants on the ground or halter tops and skirts up to your hoo ha are not appropriate attire for school) and such as that.

And yes, our schools are the poorer for all those values being abandoned.

"Abandoned?"

Schools abandoned nothing, Ms Cleaver.

PARENTS, on the other hand, have changed a great deal. The primary "evolutionary" change has been the two income household; A secondary change has been the increasing divorce rate. Parents have abandoned the time-consuming activities associated with teaching values at home.

 

[Foxfyre]

For one thing, I went to school when values and education were really taught and if you gave the teacher trouble, the principle had a paddle to deal with it.

The state of public education today in the US is worse than dismal. We have failed in every area of education.

But the values taught were respect for legitimate authority including parents and teachers, patriotism, responsibility (it's up to you to do your homework); punctuality (get to class on time; turn your homework in as scheduled); excellence (those receiving A's and B's earn them by actually doing the work and proving they learned the material); manners (don't disrupt the classroom, remove your hat in class, rise when your elders enter the room, etc.); propriety (pants on the ground or halter tops and skirts up to your hoo ha are not appropriate attire for school) and such as that.

And yes, our schools are the poorer for all those values being abandoned.

"Abandoned?"

Schools abandoned nothing, Ms Cleaver.

PARENTS, on the other hand, have changed a great deal. The primary "evolutionary" change has been the two income household; A secondary change has been the increasing divorce rate. Parents have abandoned the time-consuming activities associated with teaching values at home.

Sorry my friend, but I've BEEN in the schools these days including sitting in the classroom, and they are VERY different from what they used to be. And it is the products of those same schools that are today's parents.

So yes, today's schools may reflect the values of their community as they did when I was in school. But it is very different values being reflected now than was the case when I was in school. If we could put conservatives back in charge of the schools for a generation of school children, we would all be infinitely better off than we are now and I believe children would again be getting a first class education in the public schools.

That won't happen unless we get the federal government and teacher's union out of the schools entirely.

 

[daws101]

values, aka standards are taught at home and by society in general.
schools in the last 30 years have had stop or cut back any "values" teaching because in that same 30 year period it has conflicted with so called home /religious values.

 

[Foxfyre]

values, aka standards are taught at home and by society in general.
schools in the last 30 years have had stop or cut back any "values" teaching because in that same 30 year period it has conflicted with so called home /religious values.

Baloney. Those same schools I grew up in were in communities in which the Church was the social center of the community, just about EVERYBODY belonged to and attended one, and the home values reigned supreme. And I grew up in ultra conservative small towns. And in all those years I can tell you the religious affiliation of two of my teachers and the political affiliation of none. I cannot remember EVER being told in the school what to think religiously, politically, or historically or anything else. We were taught to think criticially and analyze the prevailing wisdom of the various periods of history.

These days specific attitudes about sociopolitical issues are being pushed. That didn't happen in my day.

 

[Samson]

But the values taught were respect for legitimate authority including parents and teachers, patriotism, responsibility (it's up to you to do your homework); punctuality (get to class on time; turn your homework in as scheduled); excellence (those receiving A's and B's earn them by actually doing the work and proving they learned the material); manners (don't disrupt the classroom, remove your hat in class, rise when your elders enter the room, etc.); propriety (pants on the ground or halter tops and skirts up to your hoo ha are not appropriate attire for school) and such as that.

And yes, our schools are the poorer for all those values being abandoned.

"Abandoned?"

Schools abandoned nothing, Ms Cleaver.

PARENTS, on the other hand, have changed a great deal. The primary "evolutionary" change has been the two income household; A secondary change has been the increasing divorce rate. Parents have abandoned the time-consuming activities associated with teaching values at home.

Sorry my friend, but I've BEEN in the schools these days including sitting in the classroom, and they are VERY different from what they used to be. And it is the products of those same schools that are today's parents.

So yes, today's schools may reflect the values of their community as they did when I was in school. But it is very different values being reflected now than was the case when I was in school. If we could put conservatives back in charge of the schools for a generation of school children, we would all be infinitely better off than we are now and I believe children would again be getting a first class education in the public schools.

That won't happen unless we get the federal government and teacher's union out of the schools entirely.

yeah, parents have nothing to do with it...

 

[Foxfyre]

"Abandoned?"

Schools abandoned nothing, Ms Cleaver.

PARENTS, on the other hand, have changed a great deal. The primary "evolutionary" change has been the two income household; A secondary change has been the increasing divorce rate. Parents have abandoned the time-consuming activities associated with teaching values at home.

Sorry my friend, but I've BEEN in the schools these days including sitting in the classroom, and they are VERY different from what they used to be. And it is the products of those same schools that are today's parents.

So yes, today's schools may reflect the values of their community as they did when I was in school. But it is very different values being reflected now than was the case when I was in school. If we could put conservatives back in charge of the schools for a generation of school children, we would all be infinitely better off than we are now and I believe children would again be getting a first class education in the public schools.

That won't happen unless we get the federal government and teacher's union out of the schools entirely.

yeah, parents have nothing to do with it...

Now I didn't say that did I.

But ask yourself why parents are so different now than they were then.