Governments do not protect rights

[Quantum Windbag]

I get accused of living in a fantasy world because I insist that governments do not provide, nor do they protect, our rights. Let me show you what hapens when the government sets out to protect us.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvLdRz5pF7s]Hitler Survivor Condemns Gun Control 'KEEP YOUR GUNS, BUY MORE GUNS' - Katie Worthman - YouTube[/ame]

I hereby issue an open challenge that trusts the government to protect our rights. This should be really easy for you, all you have to do is show me a single example of a government that consistently protects the rights of the people who are under its protection. Before anyone starts by positing to the USA I want to point out the Japanese Internment camps, Jim Crow laws, and the PATRIOT Act, all of which existed in the last 100 years.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I get accused of living in a fantasy world because I insist that governments do not provide, nor do they protect, our rights. Let me show you what hapens when the government sets out to protect us.

Hitler Survivor Condemns Gun Control 'KEEP YOUR GUNS, BUY MORE GUNS' - Katie Worthman - YouTube

I hereby issue an open challenge that trusts the government to protect our rights. This should be really easy for you, all you have to do is show me a single example of a government that consistently protects the rights of the people who are under its protection. Before anyone starts by positing to the USA I want to point out the Japanese Internment camps, Jim Crow laws, and the PATRIOT Act, all of which existed in the last 100 years.

The first fallacy is to assume that government is infallible.The second fallacy is that owning guns protect any rights other than the right to own guns. The third fallacy is to assume that the government intends to deprive anyone of their guns and the fourth is the assumption that guns will actually protect anyone from anything at all.

We the people are the government and therefore we the people have a responsibility to protect the rights of everyone. When we the people fail to protect the rights of others we forfeit those rights for everyone including ourselves. There is a caveat to the rights of we the people and that is that with each right comes a corresponding responsibility to everyone else. The rights of one individual cannot infringe upon the rights of another.

So the answer to the challenge is to ensure that we the people always have a government of the people and for the people. Bringing that about is the real challenge we the people face today.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Citizens have the First Amendment right to petition the government for a redress of grievances. This is done in state and Federal courts where those who believe their civil liberties violated may file suit seeking relief.

All governments must abide by the rulings of the courts, and citizens must obey the laws found to be in compliance with the Constitution.

Government ‘protects’ our rights only to the extent that the judiciary (a component of government) must obey the rule of law, the Constitution, and the Constitution’s case law.

It is through this process that laws are determined to be necessary and proper or offensive to the Constitution and invalid.

It is therefore naïve and ignorant to perceive government solely in some nefarious context; so too would it be naïve and ignorant to perceive government as always benevolent – governments are composed of men, and are subject to both the good and evil found in human nature; this is why the Framers conceived a republican form of government, whose citizens are subject only to the rule of law.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I get accused of living in a fantasy world because I insist that governments do not provide, nor do they protect, our rights. Let me show you what hapens when the government sets out to protect us.

Hitler Survivor Condemns Gun Control 'KEEP YOUR GUNS, BUY MORE GUNS' - Katie Worthman - YouTube

I hereby issue an open challenge that trusts the government to protect our rights. This should be really easy for you, all you have to do is show me a single example of a government that consistently protects the rights of the people who are under its protection. Before anyone starts by positing to the USA I want to point out the Japanese Internment camps, Jim Crow laws, and the PATRIOT Act, all of which existed in the last 100 years.

I'm so glad you posted this video of Kitty Werthmann because it appears the liberals on this board are too lazy to go to her website and see her testimony - hear her out on why Obama is doing the exact same thing Hitler did. Kitty Werthmann is a true hero. I love that woman! I am hoping the video will include her testimony about the 5th year of hitlers reign when he confiscated all the firearms citizens of Germany - Austria owned. He did that right after he had them register the weapons. Because they were registered there was no way to hide them and the people made the mistake of believing they could trust him. They found out just how huge a mistake that was. NEVER AGAIN.

Americans must watch the video / google Kitty Werthmanns articles and realize the liberal agenda in this nation now is to rewrite history and claim only Jews had their guns confiscated. That is a bold faced LIE.

I've got news for you. The Jews were already in the camps. The guns were owned by the civilians in Germany and Austria and they were taken away by the Nazis. - Jeremiah

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Same thing happened in Russia. Soviets first told their citizens all firearms must be registered. Then came the gun ban and confiscation of all firearms. Then came the murder of 20 million civilians who could not defend themselves. Same story repeated over and over and over again throughout history. When will people ever learn? - Jeremiah

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Published on Feb 19, 2013

hitler worthman | Katie Worthman was born in Austria, and lived there for seven years under Hitlers brutal regime, and after world war II, she also lived three years under Soviet communist occupation. Needless to say, but Mrs. Worthman is someone who has an acute awareness of how media distorts things and tyranny comes to power. Mrs. Worthman, not only says that the media was wrong about how Hitler came to power, but she says that "In the beginning, Hitler didn't look like, or talk like a monster at all. He talked like an American politician."

She says that the story of Hitler overthrowing governments and people in order to come to power just simply isn't true, but rather the Austrian people elected Hitler with 98% of the vote at the ballot box. Mrs. Worthman then goes on to say that the Austrian people had guns, but the government began to say that they were dangerous, so they began to implement gun registration. Then she said this was followed by turning in their weapons to the police station in order to cut down on crime, and if citizens didn't... there would be capital punishment.

Mrs. Worthman says that the dictatorship, "didn't happen over night, but it took 5 years, gradually, little by little, to escalate to a dictatorship."

She then goes on to say that, "When the people fear the government, that's tyranny, but when the government fears the people, that's liberty."

As a Nazi survivor, what is her advice to us... "Keep your guns, keep your guns and buy more guns."

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Sounds just like what Obama is doing now, doesn't it? - Jeremiah

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Yep... She says it in plain english.. the nazis told the citizens to come in and register, then they were called to turn them in to the police stations. If the German - Austrian citizens refused to comply and turn in their firearms they were charged with Capitol Crime and Capitol Punishment ( execution ) so you can see here she has exposed the liberal liars on this board who would have you believe that only the Jews were not allowed to own firearms. That is a lie and she does very well to expose it as such. Hitler confiscated all weapons under the threat of capitol punishment. So there it is. At last. The Truth.

- Jeremiah

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I get accused of living in a fantasy world because I insist that governments do not provide, nor do they protect, our rights. Let me show you what hapens when the government sets out to protect us.

Hitler Survivor Condemns Gun Control 'KEEP YOUR GUNS, BUY MORE GUNS' - Katie Worthman - YouTube

I hereby issue an open challenge that trusts the government to protect our rights. This should be really easy for you, all you have to do is show me a single example of a government that consistently protects the rights of the people who are under its protection. Before anyone starts by positing to the USA I want to point out the Japanese Internment camps, Jim Crow laws, and the PATRIOT Act, all of which existed in the last 100 years.

bravo!

 

[Derideo_Te]

I get accused of living in a fantasy world because I insist that governments do not provide, nor do they protect, our rights. Let me show you what hapens when the government sets out to protect us.

Hitler Survivor Condemns Gun Control 'KEEP YOUR GUNS, BUY MORE GUNS' - Katie Worthman - YouTube

I hereby issue an open challenge that trusts the government to protect our rights. This should be really easy for you, all you have to do is show me a single example of a government that consistently protects the rights of the people who are under its protection. Before anyone starts by positing to the USA I want to point out the Japanese Internment camps, Jim Crow laws, and the PATRIOT Act, all of which existed in the last 100 years.

I'm so glad you posted this video of Kitty Werthmann because it appears the liberals on this board are too lazy to go to her website and see her testimony - hear her out on why Obama is doing the exact same thing Hitler did. Kitty Werthmann is a true hero. I love that woman! I am hoping the video will include her testimony about the 5th year of hitlers reign when he confiscated all the firearms citizens of Germany - Austria owned. He did that right after he had them register the weapons. Because they were registered there was no way to hide them and the people made the mistake of believing they could trust him. They found out just how huge a mistake that was. NEVER AGAIN.

Americans must watch the video / google Kitty Werthmanns articles and realize the liberal agenda in this nation now is to rewrite history and claim only Jews had their guns confiscated. That is a bold faced LIE.

I've got news for you. The Jews were already in the camps. The guns were owned by the civilians in Germany and Austria and they were taken away by the Nazis. - Jeremiah

In 1938 Hitler actually reversed the strict gun control regulations that had been in force since 1919.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I get accused of living in a fantasy world because I insist that governments do not provide, nor do they protect, our rights. Let me show you what hapens when the government sets out to protect us.

Hitler Survivor Condemns Gun Control 'KEEP YOUR GUNS, BUY MORE GUNS' - Katie Worthman - YouTube

I hereby issue an open challenge that trusts the government to protect our rights. This should be really easy for you, all you have to do is show me a single example of a government that consistently protects the rights of the people who are under its protection. Before anyone starts by positing to the USA I want to point out the Japanese Internment camps, Jim Crow laws, and the PATRIOT Act, all of which existed in the last 100 years.

The first fallacy is to assume that government is infallible.The second fallacy is that owning guns protect any rights other than the right to own guns. The third fallacy is to assume that the government intends to deprive anyone of their guns and the fourth is the assumption that guns will actually protect anyone from anything at all.

We the people are the government and therefore we the people have a responsibility to protect the rights of everyone. When we the people fail to protect the rights of others we forfeit those rights for everyone including ourselves. There is a caveat to the rights of we the people and that is that with each right comes a corresponding responsibility to everyone else. The rights of one individual cannot infringe upon the rights of another.

So the answer to the challenge is to ensure that we the people always have a government of the people and for the people. Bringing that about is the real challenge we the people face today.

Excuse me? Where did I say that governments are infallible?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Citizens have the First Amendment right to petition the government for a redress of grievances. This is done in state and Federal courts where those who believe their civil liberties violated may file suit seeking relief.

All governments must abide by the rulings of the courts, and citizens must obey the laws found to be in compliance with the Constitution.

Government ‘protects’ our rights only to the extent that the judiciary (a component of government) must obey the rule of law, the Constitution, and the Constitution’s case law.

It is through this process that laws are determined to be necessary and proper or offensive to the Constitution and invalid.

It is therefore naïve and ignorant to perceive government solely in some nefarious context; so too would it be naïve and ignorant to perceive government as always benevolent – governments are composed of men, and are subject to both the good and evil found in human nature; this is why the Framers conceived a republican form of government, whose citizens are subject only to the rule of law.

If governments must abide by the rulings of the courts why has the NLRB stated that it will act like the court never ruled it does not have a quorum? Are they exempt from court rulings because Obama is in charge?

 

[Papageorgio]

I get accused of living in a fantasy world because I insist that governments do not provide, nor do they protect, our rights. Let me show you what hapens when the government sets out to protect us.

Hitler Survivor Condemns Gun Control 'KEEP YOUR GUNS, BUY MORE GUNS' - Katie Worthman - YouTube

I hereby issue an open challenge that trusts the government to protect our rights. This should be really easy for you, all you have to do is show me a single example of a government that consistently protects the rights of the people who are under its protection. Before anyone starts by positing to the USA I want to point out the Japanese Internment camps, Jim Crow laws, and the PATRIOT Act, all of which existed in the last 100 years.

I'm so glad you posted this video of Kitty Werthmann because it appears the liberals on this board are too lazy to go to her website and see her testimony - hear her out on why Obama is doing the exact same thing Hitler did. Kitty Werthmann is a true hero. I love that woman! I am hoping the video will include her testimony about the 5th year of hitlers reign when he confiscated all the firearms citizens of Germany - Austria owned. He did that right after he had them register the weapons. Because they were registered there was no way to hide them and the people made the mistake of believing they could trust him. They found out just how huge a mistake that was. NEVER AGAIN.

Americans must watch the video / google Kitty Werthmanns articles and realize the liberal agenda in this nation now is to rewrite history and claim only Jews had their guns confiscated. That is a bold faced LIE.

I've got news for you. The Jews were already in the camps. The guns were owned by the civilians in Germany and Austria and they were taken away by the Nazis. - Jeremiah

In 1938 Hitler actually reversed the strict gun control regulations that had been in force since 1919.

He didn't reverse strict gun control, there is a huge misconception on what happened in 38.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I get accused of living in a fantasy world because I insist that governments do not provide, nor do they protect, our rights. Let me show you what hapens when the government sets out to protect us.

Hitler Survivor Condemns Gun Control 'KEEP YOUR GUNS, BUY MORE GUNS' - Katie Worthman - YouTube

I hereby issue an open challenge that trusts the government to protect our rights. This should be really easy for you, all you have to do is show me a single example of a government that consistently protects the rights of the people who are under its protection. Before anyone starts by positing to the USA I want to point out the Japanese Internment camps, Jim Crow laws, and the PATRIOT Act, all of which existed in the last 100 years.

I'm so glad you posted this video of Kitty Werthmann because it appears the liberals on this board are too lazy to go to her website and see her testimony - hear her out on why Obama is doing the exact same thing Hitler did. Kitty Werthmann is a true hero. I love that woman! I am hoping the video will include her testimony about the 5th year of hitlers reign when he confiscated all the firearms citizens of Germany - Austria owned. He did that right after he had them register the weapons. Because they were registered there was no way to hide them and the people made the mistake of believing they could trust him. They found out just how huge a mistake that was. NEVER AGAIN.

Americans must watch the video / google Kitty Werthmanns articles and realize the liberal agenda in this nation now is to rewrite history and claim only Jews had their guns confiscated. That is a bold faced LIE.

I've got news for you. The Jews were already in the camps. The guns were owned by the civilians in Germany and Austria and they were taken away by the Nazis. - Jeremiah

In 1938 Hitler actually reversed the strict gun control regulations that had been in force since 1919.

He sure did. he allowed people who were in favor with the government to won guns, and prohibited people who were not in favor from owning them. Sounds a lot like what Feinstein is proposing, doesn't it?

 

[Agit8r]

Are we seriously back to pretending that Kitty isn't talking out her ass. We debunked that bitch yeasterday

 

[bucs90]

I hereby issue an open challenge that trusts the government to protect our rights. This should be really easy for you, all you have to do is show me a single example of a government that consistently protects the rights of the people who are under its protection. Before anyone starts by positing to the USA I want to point out the Japanese Internment camps, Jim Crow laws, and the PATRIOT Act, all of which existed in the last 100 years.

Oh boy. This should be fun.

Ok. Lets lay out just a few "rights" to set the table, and explain how the govt helps protect them:

1) Right to pursuit of happiness: It makes you happy to walk the beach, to stroll around downtown. To walk your dog. To relax in your home watching a movie while the kids play hide-n-go-seek outside. The reason you can do that safely is because murderers, rapists, thieves and drug dealers are cautious of police presence, and therefore, crime is not as rampant here as it is in shitholes like Afghanistan or Mexico.

2) Right to Due Process: You get due process when accused of a crime. Governments uphold this. By supporting and continuing the checks and balances, a govt paid judge can keep the police in line. Police supervisors can keep line officers in line. Govt paid mayors and city councils can keep judges and police chiefs in line. And, unlike many nations like Germany and Brazil, our police are not nationalized. They are broken down into thousands of small, independent agencies. Power is broken into thousands of independent cells, therefore, no tyrannical order can be given by a National Police Chief. Incredible balance of power.

3) Right to Free Speech: See #2. Go watch videos from the website Cop Block, or Cop Blocker. Watch those knuckleheads express their free speech, without consequence.

Those are just a few examples. And they focus on local and state government. Those governments are broken into smaller units of power, for a balance. They have elected officials, judges, police command staffs, etc, etc, that counter each other, and protect YOU from being abused by the other. Often times if one element of govt seeks to abuse your rights, another element of govt steps in to correct it. If a local police dept is abusing 4th amendment rights, often times the State Police, or even the Dept of Justice and FBI, will step in, investigate, and prosecute those offenders. Thus, the govt is protecting you from the OTHER government that is abusing your rights. If no govt ever held other govts accountable, your rights would disappear quickly.


Now, all of that stuff listed above is domestic and local. We are able to do that because have a relatively very safe, stable society. That is made possible in large part due to our military (aka, THE GOVERNMENT) keeping foreign enemies at bay.



Now, I eagerly await this response!!!

 

[Derideo_Te]

I get accused of living in a fantasy world because I insist that governments do not provide, nor do they protect, our rights. Let me show you what hapens when the government sets out to protect us.

Hitler Survivor Condemns Gun Control 'KEEP YOUR GUNS, BUY MORE GUNS' - Katie Worthman - YouTube

I hereby issue an open challenge that trusts the government to protect our rights. This should be really easy for you, all you have to do is show me a single example of a government that consistently protects the rights of the people who are under its protection. Before anyone starts by positing to the USA I want to point out the Japanese Internment camps, Jim Crow laws, and the PATRIOT Act, all of which existed in the last 100 years.

The first fallacy is to assume that government is infallible.The second fallacy is that owning guns protect any rights other than the right to own guns. The third fallacy is to assume that the government intends to deprive anyone of their guns and the fourth is the assumption that guns will actually protect anyone from anything at all.

We the people are the government and therefore we the people have a responsibility to protect the rights of everyone. When we the people fail to protect the rights of others we forfeit those rights for everyone including ourselves. There is a caveat to the rights of we the people and that is that with each right comes a corresponding responsibility to everyone else. The rights of one individual cannot infringe upon the rights of another.

So the answer to the challenge is to ensure that we the people always have a government of the people and for the people. Bringing that about is the real challenge we the people face today.

Excuse me? Where did I say that governments are infallible?

My apologies if you believe that I implied that you had said that.

Like you I was merely prefixing my response so that my answer to your challenge would be taken in the the appropriate context.

 

[bucs90]

Yep... She says it in plain english.. the nazis told the citizens to come in and register, then they were called to turn them in to the police stations. If the German - Austrian citizens refused to comply and turn in their firearms they were charged with Capitol Crime and Capitol Punishment ( execution ) so you can see here she has exposed the liberal liars on this board who would have you believe that only the Jews were not allowed to own firearms. That is a lie and she does very well to expose it as such. Hitler confiscated all weapons under the threat of capitol punishment. So there it is. At last. The Truth.

- Jeremiah

You do realize, however, that Germans and Americans are vastly different types of people. Americans would never stand for that, and therefore, will not ever happen. Germans get sexual satisfaction from pooping on each other for God's sake.

All this Nazi alarmism is pathetic.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I'm so glad you posted this video of Kitty Werthmann because it appears the liberals on this board are too lazy to go to her website and see her testimony - hear her out on why Obama is doing the exact same thing Hitler did. Kitty Werthmann is a true hero. I love that woman! I am hoping the video will include her testimony about the 5th year of hitlers reign when he confiscated all the firearms citizens of Germany - Austria owned. He did that right after he had them register the weapons. Because they were registered there was no way to hide them and the people made the mistake of believing they could trust him. They found out just how huge a mistake that was. NEVER AGAIN.

Americans must watch the video / google Kitty Werthmanns articles and realize the liberal agenda in this nation now is to rewrite history and claim only Jews had their guns confiscated. That is a bold faced LIE.

I've got news for you. The Jews were already in the camps. The guns were owned by the civilians in Germany and Austria and they were taken away by the Nazis. - Jeremiah

In 1938 Hitler actually reversed the strict gun control regulations that had been in force since 1919.

He sure did. he allowed people who were in favor with the government to won guns, and prohibited people who were not in favor from owning them. Sounds a lot like what Feinstein is proposing, doesn't it?

Please provide the exact parallels between what Hitler enacted and what you believe Feinstein is going to enact.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I'm so glad you posted this video of Kitty Werthmann because it appears the liberals on this board are too lazy to go to her website and see her testimony - hear her out on why Obama is doing the exact same thing Hitler did. Kitty Werthmann is a true hero. I love that woman! I am hoping the video will include her testimony about the 5th year of hitlers reign when he confiscated all the firearms citizens of Germany - Austria owned. He did that right after he had them register the weapons. Because they were registered there was no way to hide them and the people made the mistake of believing they could trust him. They found out just how huge a mistake that was. NEVER AGAIN.

Americans must watch the video / google Kitty Werthmanns articles and realize the liberal agenda in this nation now is to rewrite history and claim only Jews had their guns confiscated. That is a bold faced LIE.

I've got news for you. The Jews were already in the camps. The guns were owned by the civilians in Germany and Austria and they were taken away by the Nazis. - Jeremiah

In 1938 Hitler actually reversed the strict gun control regulations that had been in force since 1919.

He didn't reverse strict gun control, there is a huge misconception on what happened in 38.

The Hitler gun control lie - Salon.com

Unfortunately for LaPierre et al., the notion that Hitler confiscated everyone’s guns is mostly bogus. And the ancillary claim that Jews could have stopped the Holocaust with more guns doesn’t make any sense at all if you think about it for more than a minute.

University of Chicago law professor Bernard Harcourt explored this myth in depth in a 2004 article published in the Fordham Law Review. As it turns out, the Weimar Republic, the German government that immediately preceded Hitler’s, actually had tougher gun laws than the Nazi regime. After its defeat in World War I, and agreeing to the harsh surrender terms laid out in the Treaty of Versailles, the German legislature in 1919 passed a law that effectively banned all private firearm possession, leading the government to confiscate guns already in circulation. In 1928, the Reichstag relaxed the regulation a bit, but put in place a strict registration regime that required citizens to acquire separate permits to own guns, sell them or carry them.

The 1938 law signed by Hitler that LaPierre mentions in his book basically does the opposite of what he says it did. “The 1938 revisions completely deregulated the acquisition and transfer of rifles and shotguns, as well as ammunition,” Harcourt wrote. Meanwhile, many more categories of people, including Nazi party members, were exempted from gun ownership regulations altogether, while the legal age of purchase was lowered from 20 to 18, and permit lengths were extended from one year to three years.

The law did prohibit Jews and other persecuted classes from owning guns, but this should not be an indictment of gun control in general. Does the fact that Nazis forced Jews into horrendous ghettos indict urban planning? Should we eliminate all police officers because the Nazis used police officers to oppress and kill the Jews? What about public works — Hitler loved public works projects? Of course not. These are merely implements that can be used for good or ill, much as gun advocates like to argue about guns themselves. If guns don’t kill people, then neither does gun control cause genocide (genocidal regimes cause genocide).

Besides, Omer Bartov, a historian at Brown University who studies the Third Reich, notes that the Jews probably wouldn’t have had much success fighting back. “Just imagine the Jews of Germany exercising the right to bear arms and fighting the SA, SS and the Wehrmacht. The [Russian] Red Army lost 7 million men fighting the Wehrmacht, despite its tanks and planes and artillery. The Jews with pistols and shotguns would have done better?” he told Salon.