Greatest thread to human civilization : capitalist greed - Stephen Hawkin

[kiwiman127]

“If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed.” Hawking continued, “Everyone can enjoy a life of luxurious leisure if the machine-produced wealth is shared, or most people can end up miserably poor if the machine-owners successfully lobby against wealth redistribution. So far, the trend seems to be toward the second option, with technology driving ever-increasing inequality."

We have been warned.

Stephen Hawking Warns About The Greatest Threat To Humanity | Zero Hedge

Idiots. It is amazing how some of the smartest people can be so dumb.
Capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than anything else. IT's benefits are literally without precedence.

Hawkins has facts you could never accept on his side.
Capitalism prior to the 1980s was great but then things changed, facts back it up.
Offshoring jobs started and wage growth flattened out for most workers, both started in the 1980's. Down the road wealth/income inequality followed. Find me economist that dispute this other than your typical hyper-partisan economists, even most of them agree with facts from the real world.

So any economist that dsputes this is ipse facto a "hyper partisan". LOL! What a fucking tool bag.
Did you forget the growth in the 90s under Clinton, piggybacking on Reagan's success? Did you forget the stagflation in the 70s thanks to Carter and Nixon? For that matter did you forget the Depression in the 1930s, when everyone said capitalism was doomed? Or the prosperity in the 1920s?
You have a simple mind so to you everything is simple.

This simple mind chased you away every time we have had this discussion.
The last time we interacted, I provided links to a highly regarded resource and guaranteed I was 100% correct. You never responded or in other words you ran away.
If my simple mind does this to you consistently, what does that say about you?
It's always the same with you and I guarantee, you are inferior to me.

 

[bedowin62]

people in china now are able to actually buy the products they used to make just for others



left-wing nutjobs suddenly dont like diversity and fairness and income equality..

idiots and hypocrites

 

[NYcarbineer]

Greed is Apple building its products overseas with supercheap labor.

100% stupid!! Thats like saying greed is buying cheap bananas from South American rather than growing them here in greenhouses with 1000's of employees at $20/lbs.

An Apple product sold in the US, no matter where it's built, should have to be built under labor laws comparable to those in the US,

or Apple should pay the difference in the form of a tariff.

 

[CultureCitizen]

Context man, context . Take into account the context.
Was overpopulation a threat to mankind 100 years ago ? No.
Is overpopulation a threat to mankid today.Yes, it is.
Conversely , full automation and capitalism combined pose a threat to humanity.

LOL! No, it isnt. And btw Malthus predicted overpopulation would be a threat, yeah over 100 years ago. He was wrong then and that view is wrong now In fact the opposite is the problem.

He was actually right. Easter Island and the Mayan civilization collapsed due to overpopulation .
A given territory can only sustain about 1,400 people per square kilometre, so an actuall worldwide collapse can only happen if such threshold is reached. In the mean time we can expect local collapses if countries surpass such limit.

No he wasnt, as history shows. A localized collapse (and there can be different reasons such as weather change) does not prove Mathus' theory. You could even argue the Mayans collapsed because they introduced socialism and people stopped working.
Many places have population density well over 1400/sq meter. They seem to be doing fine.

Easter Island collapsed due to a lack of environmental policy : they cut down all the trees. No trees, no timber , no fishing boats, followed by deaths until they reached a sustainable level.

Mayans were not socialists. They collapsed because they overpopulated the zone, and then a drought hit them.
A similar situation is happening in California, luckily the US is centuries more advanced than the mayans, so I am confident the outcome will be different.

So actualluy none of them collapsed due to overpopulation. Another liberal claim refuted.
California has a drought because policiticans fucked up. Socialism kills.

Rabi,

Indeed, overpopulation was not the only factor but the main and driving factor. In the case of easter island
Overpopulation lead to overuse of resources which lead to complete deforestation which in turn caused their collapse.

"Barbara A. West wrote, "Sometime before the arrival of Europeans on Easter Island, the Rapanui experienced a tremendous upheaval in their social system brought about by a change in their island's ecology... By the time of European arrival in 1722, the island's population had dropped to 2,000–3,000 from a high of approximately 15,000 just a century earlier."

Easter Island - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[idb]

He's right. Centuries ago this time period was envisioned to be a time of lesuire, and it could be so much nicer for us, but instead of creating beautiful gardens I had to spend my time paying the banks for the land.

we are being seriously wroughted and for No reason other than idiot greed box's need for status.

its really something I was always frustrated about. Why all the drudgery?
I know work is good but does it have to be soul destroying? No, it doesn't.

Got an idea for you. Go off the grid.
BUT remember... once you go off the grid the ONLY way you'll protect your property is with a gun because once we all go off the grid society as we know it will not exist.
There will be no cops. No court houses.
But that's what you are wanting to see. Where the hamburger flipper is replaced with a robot.
The cop is replaced by a robot. ALL manual labor and paper processing ...robots.
So how will we get compensation for our time when there is NO need for our time!
ONLY idiots think "wealth redistribution" is the only way. How stupid!
NOT ONE person even a king 400 years ago could imagine you and I conversing thousands of miles apart and you are obviously a hell of lot poorer then I am but even
so YOU are doing something NOT the wealthiest person 400 years ago could even imagine!

Do you understand? We people today have more wealth then there ever was before. And you are like an animal waiting for your piece by tearing apart someone else's!
Seriously people like you truly need to live a few days off the grid and come to see how hard it is to grow the food you take for granted!

So, in your mind it's all or nothing.
Unfettered capitalism or 'off the grid'.

there are literally millions of pages of regulations now in effect. if anybody is making a zero-sum argument it's the left. how the phuk anybody can say we have unfettered captialism or anything close to it is mind-bobbling

It's mind-bobbling that you see anyone here saying that capitalism is bad.

 

[bedowin62]

Greed is Apple building its products overseas with supercheap labor.

of if Apple was using the most expensive labor rather than the cheapest that Samsung was using Apple would go bankrupt. Companies are managed for customers not for employees. Imagine what would happen if this was not true.

That's why we need protectionist policies. The kind our founders supported, eh cons? lol

FORWARD!!!!!!


???????????????????????????


LOL idiots and hypocrites

 

[bedowin62]

He's right. Centuries ago this time period was envisioned to be a time of lesuire, and it could be so much nicer for us, but instead of creating beautiful gardens I had to spend my time paying the banks for the land.

we are being seriously wroughted and for No reason other than idiot greed box's need for status.

its really something I was always frustrated about. Why all the drudgery?
I know work is good but does it have to be soul destroying? No, it doesn't.

Got an idea for you. Go off the grid.
BUT remember... once you go off the grid the ONLY way you'll protect your property is with a gun because once we all go off the grid society as we know it will not exist.
There will be no cops. No court houses.
But that's what you are wanting to see. Where the hamburger flipper is replaced with a robot.
The cop is replaced by a robot. ALL manual labor and paper processing ...robots.
So how will we get compensation for our time when there is NO need for our time!
ONLY idiots think "wealth redistribution" is the only way. How stupid!
NOT ONE person even a king 400 years ago could imagine you and I conversing thousands of miles apart and you are obviously a hell of lot poorer then I am but even
so YOU are doing something NOT the wealthiest person 400 years ago could even imagine!

Do you understand? We people today have more wealth then there ever was before. And you are like an animal waiting for your piece by tearing apart someone else's!
Seriously people like you truly need to live a few days off the grid and come to see how hard it is to grow the food you take for granted!

So, in your mind it's all or nothing.
Unfettered capitalism or 'off the grid'.

there are literally millions of pages of regulations now in effect. if anybody is making a zero-sum argument it's the left. how the phuk anybody can say we have unfettered captialism or anything close to it is mind-bobbling

It's mind-bobbling that you see anyone here saying that capitalism is bad.

this isnt even worth responding to

what an idiot

 

[bripat9643]

Because he's critisizing infinite "growth".

The wingnuts are obsfucating because they don't want their billionaire heroes to lose any profit.

how can there even be left-wing billionaires? havent they given it all away to the less fortunate??

moronic pontificating left-wingnuts are funny!!!

As a right winger, what values guide you?

Lying

In the case of helping those in need, meeting that need as I see fit not how someone like you sees fit on my behalf.

As a left winger, you've decided you know more about what another person should do with their money and what's better for them.

Liberals have no problem letting the People decide.

Bullshit. Liberals have no problem thinking they know more about how someone should do something than the person. Using Obamacare as an example, you don't let people decide whether or not they want to buy insurance. You mandated it. Using Social Security, you don't let people decide whether or not they want to pay into it.

Look, all Hawking is saying is tha we piss fart about too much for too little.

Lying? Do you mean like the President when he said "if you like your doctor . . " knowing it wasn't the truth?

For 97% of Americans that was true. A statement that is 97% true hardly qualifies as the lie of the year.

It was false for a lot more than that.

 

[Programmer]

Greed is Apple building its products overseas with supercheap labor when Apple could still make a profit, albeit a smaller profit, building the products in the US for decent US wages.

Greed isn't you wanting high wages from Apple whether they'll be competitive or not?

 

[bripat9643]

“If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed.” Hawking continued, “Everyone can enjoy a life of luxurious leisure if the machine-produced wealth is shared, or most people can end up miserably poor if the machine-owners successfully lobby against wealth redistribution. So far, the trend seems to be toward the second option, with technology driving ever-increasing inequality."

We have been warned.

Stephen Hawking Warns About The Greatest Threat To Humanity | Zero Hedge

Mankind's lot prior to capitalism was pretty grim. Average life expectancy for all but the wealthy was 35 to 40. No travel, tied down to an area of around 10 square miles for your entire life. A whole litany of pains due to a work week approaching 80 hours per. No real entertainment other than fighting, screwing and the occasional wedding.

Yep, the pre capitalist life was WONDERFUL!

Unregulated capitalism was the horror of the Industrial Revolution before GOVERNMENTS began to intervene and rein in the capitalists.

It was better than what came before it. Why would people work in factories if they had better options? The only thing government did to improve capitalism was give workers the right to sue if they were injured on the job. Everything else government has done was counter productive.

It's counterproductive that we legislated kids out of the mines?

Mines stopped employing kids because they got sued when they were injured, and aslo because they weren't cost effective once machines were developed to do whatever tasks they performed.

OSHA didn't exist until 1971, which is long after children stopped working in mines.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

That's why we need protectionist policies. The kind our founders supported, eh cons? lol

dear, our founders put the Commerce Clause in the Constitution to promote free trade!!
What protectionists policies are you lying about???

 

[bripat9643]

Greed is Apple building its products overseas with supercheap labor.

100% stupid!! Thats like saying greed is buying cheap bananas from South American rather than growing them here in greenhouses with 1000's of employees at $20/lbs.

An Apple product sold in the US, no matter where it's built, should have to be built under labor laws comparable to those in the US,

or Apple should pay the difference in the form of a tariff.

Horseshit. Why should the federal government get to write labor laws for the entire planet? Most of our labor laws are downright stupid.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Greed is Apple building its products overseas with supercheap labor when Apple could still make a profit, albeit a smaller profit, building the products in the US for decent US wages.

...and that's precisely how Progressives Fundamentally Transformed Detroit from the American Paris into a third world Calcutta craphole in under 2 generations

 

[healthmyths]

LOL! No, it isnt. And btw Malthus predicted overpopulation would be a threat, yeah over 100 years ago. He was wrong then and that view is wrong now In fact the opposite is the problem.

He was actually right. Easter Island and the Mayan civilization collapsed due to overpopulation .
A given territory can only sustain about 1,400 people per square kilometre, so an actuall worldwide collapse can only happen if such threshold is reached. In the mean time we can expect local collapses if countries surpass such limit.

No he wasnt, as history shows. A localized collapse (and there can be different reasons such as weather change) does not prove Mathus' theory. You could even argue the Mayans collapsed because they introduced socialism and people stopped working.
Many places have population density well over 1400/sq meter. They seem to be doing fine.

Easter Island collapsed due to a lack of environmental policy : they cut down all the trees. No trees, no timber , no fishing boats, followed by deaths until they reached a sustainable level.

Mayans were not socialists. They collapsed because they overpopulated the zone, and then a drought hit them.
A similar situation is happening in California, luckily the US is centuries more advanced than the mayans, so I am confident the outcome will be different.

So actualluy none of them collapsed due to overpopulation. Another liberal claim refuted.
California has a drought because policiticans fucked up. Socialism kills.

Rabi,

Indeed, overpopulation was not the only factor but the main and driving factor. In the case of easter island
Overpopulation lead to overuse of resources which lead to complete deforestation which in turn caused their collapse.

"Barbara A. West wrote, "Sometime before the arrival of Europeans on Easter Island, the Rapanui experienced a tremendous upheaval in their social system brought about by a change in their island's ecology... By the time of European arrival in 1722, the island's population had dropped to 2,000–3,000 from a high of approximately 15,000 just a century earlier."

Easter Island - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Right and here is a story that shows how assumptions by smart people can be so stupid!

In 1880, the U.S. brought together a group they considered the world’s smartest people to answer one pressing question…
What will New York City look like in 100 years? New York was in full bloom. It was an unprecedented hub of entrepreneurship and innovation.
Yes, it was an exciting time to be a New Yorker. The world’s first elevated train… underground subway… and with the first skyscraper in the hopper…The Big Apple was changing how the world thought about — and lived — in cities.
So everyone was curious: What lies ahead for The City That Never Sleeps?
The team of big brains plugged their gourds together and mulled it over…They talked. They argued. They rubbed their chins and massaged the bulging veins in their foreheads.
Some of them probably scribbled indecipherable squiggles on the chalkboard and pointed at them. They said words in convincing tones.
Some nodded. Some stood up and raised their arms and their eyebrows.
“Eureka!” one of them probably shouted. And then, in the end, they all nodded in unison.
They all came to a unanimous agreement.
“In 100 years time,” they said (in essence), “probably well before, New York will be…” Wait for it…“… completely destroyed!”
Yep. That was their conclusion and they were sticking to it.
How did they come to such a drastic determination? Well, look no further than the population boom. And… horses.
In the early 1800s, there were about 30,000 people in New York. And by 1880, that number had ballooned to nearly four million.
The city’s population had, on average, doubled in size every decade. The brainiacs assumed that this trend would continue.
And in assuming this trend to continue, they began to wonder how all of these people would get around. Horrified, they began to imagine all the horses the city would need. By 1980, the team concluded, New York would need more than six million horses. Six million!
And six million horses presents an obvious problem. The city already had 200,000 horses in 1880.
Each one, they somehow calculated, dumped a quart of urine and 24 pounds of manure every day.
That’s 4.8 million pounds of horse dung and 50,000 gallons of pee already being dumped into the streets… every. single. day.
Needless to say, horse waste was already a problem. The city was already drowning in it. “The stench was omnipresent,” one writer, Eric Morris, wrote in his urban planning Masters thesis… “Urban streets were minefields that needed to be navigated with the greatest care,” the thesis reads. “‘Crossing sweepers’ stood on street corners; for a fee they would clear a path through the mire for pedestrians. Wet weather turned the streets into swamps and rivers of muck, but dry weather brought little improvement; the manure turned to dust, which was then whipped up by the wind, choking pedestrians and coating buildings. “…even when it had been removed from the streets the manure piled up faster than it could be disposed of…early in the century farmers were happy to pay good money for the manure, by the end of the 1800s stable owners had to pay to have it carted off. As a result of this glut…vacant lots in cities across America became piled high with manure; in New York these sometimes rose to forty and even sixty feet.”
Worse, manure is breeding ground for flies. And flies spread disease. Typhoid outbreaks, Morris wrote, “and “infant diarrheal disease can be traced to spikes in fly population.” Now times that situation by 30.
It slowly dawned on our intrepid researchers that by 1980, New York’s poor sidewalks and streets would gather 144 million pounds of dung… and be awash with 1,500,000 gallons of horse urine.
Great News: Six Million Horses Almost Destroyed New York City
What did these brilliant minds forget??? Capitalism! Automobile. Mobility.!!!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Mines stopped employing kids because

and because capitalism made their parents so rich that they didn't need to send their kids out to work to help the family survive.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Mines stopped employing kids because

and because Christian values created love and family so that children had parents rather than mines to take care of them.

 

[hazlnut]

“If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed.” Hawking continued, “Everyone can enjoy a life of luxurious leisure if the machine-produced wealth is shared, or most people can end up miserably poor if the machine-owners successfully lobby against wealth redistribution. So far, the trend seems to be toward the second option, with technology driving ever-increasing inequality."

We have been warned.

Stephen Hawking Warns About The Greatest Threat To Humanity | Zero Hedge

What's going to be interesting is when machines start replacing all mid-level management jobs -- accountant, paralegal, secretary, human resource directors etc.

A machine can write a legal brief, diagnose a disease, balance the books, even hire a worker. Those jobs will soon no longer be necessary.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

“If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed.” Hawking continued, “Everyone can enjoy a life of luxurious leisure if the machine-produced wealth is shared, or most people can end up miserably poor if the machine-owners successfully lobby against wealth redistribution. So far, the trend seems to be toward the second option, with technology driving ever-increasing inequality."

We have been warned.

Stephen Hawking Warns About The Greatest Threat To Humanity | Zero Hedge

What's going to be interesting is when machines start replacing all mid-level management jobs -- accountant, paralegal, secretary, human resource directors etc.

A machine can write a legal brief, diagnose a disease, balance the books, even hire a worker. Those jobs will soon no longer be necessary.

You might change your mind once you get your first job

 

[CultureCitizen]

“If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed.” Hawking continued, “Everyone can enjoy a life of luxurious leisure if the machine-produced wealth is shared, or most people can end up miserably poor if the machine-owners successfully lobby against wealth redistribution. So far, the trend seems to be toward the second option, with technology driving ever-increasing inequality."

We have been warned.

Stephen Hawking Warns About The Greatest Threat To Humanity | Zero Hedge

Mankind's lot prior to capitalism was pretty grim. Average life expectancy for all but the wealthy was 35 to 40. No travel, tied down to an area of around 10 square miles for your entire life. A whole litany of pains due to a work week approaching 80 hours per. No real entertainment other than fighting, screwing and the occasional wedding.

Yep, the pre capitalist life was WONDERFUL!

It was science and the industrial revolution which did that, not Capitalism.
And then the form of Capitalism that spawned the industrial revolution was merchantilism , not our current system.
If your argument was true, life expectancy would be very low in Cuba , and it's almost as high as in the US.
Now , that doesn't mean their government or economic system should be a model, I am just pointing out the flaws in your statements.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

What's going to be interesting is when machines start replacing all mid-level management jobs --

100% stupid. the wheel is a machine and it has replaced billions of people since it was invented and still unemployment is 5.1%
What does that teach you???