Green New Deal

[Obejoekenobe]

Stop and think about it, building the interstate highway is a joke when compared to totally remaking our entire energy infrastructure and that took 35yrs. What part of that don't people understand?

Why is remaking our energy infrastructure a joke? We’re already doing it, just on a smaller scale!

What nonsense.

The pentagon doesn’t think so. They see global warming as the #1 security threat facing America.

Climate Change Threatens National Security Says Pentagon | UNFCCC

Pentagon is still preparing for global warming even though Trump said to stop

How many times are you going to fall for this crap? The arctic will free of ice by 2003, no wait 2013, no wait 2018, no wait we're all going to die in 12 years.

Who ever said global warming was an exact science? That we know the YEAR the ice caps are going to melt away? How many times are YOU going to fall for THAT crap?

But we know global warming is real because WE CAN see the effects in glaciers melting at an ever increasing rate, extreme weather patterns increasing, our oceans warming AND rising. Whether you like it or not, it is happening and DOING NOTHING.... is not an option.

Sure we had 90% tax rates, and no one paid it. The rich will shift their portfolios like they always do

Not if AOC and progressive democrats are writing the legislation and Bernie is signing them into law.

LOLOL

Second, care to enlighten us how we go carbon neutral in now 11yrs?

We can make fission reactors our moonshot. The science is sound, it’s been proven, it’s only an engineering problem now to keep the reaction sustainable. We need to find, or develop, a material that can withstand the heat produced during the fission reaction. That alone would put us 3/4 of the way there. Other countries would follow the U.S. lead in producing these reactors if we give them the plans or help build them.

We should stop subsidizing big oil and increase subsidies for renewable energy and transportation.

To help get this started we should immediately start taxing the wealthy at 70%.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What’s been economically destructive is laissez faire capitalism. That trickle down bullshit has never worked.

List of companies that paid bonuses or boosted pay since tax bill passed

 

[easyt65]

My plan is to let God run his earth. We are merely visitors. We don't control anything when it comes to the environment.

Don't be afraid of the things people make up, be afraid of the things you can see.

Snowflakes have been brainwashed / indoctrinated into believing what they are told by their masters.

And when the oceans don't flood all the cities in the coast lime Gore told them it would they just discard that fact and wait for the next lie to be told so they can parrot it...

Fear and brainwashing has worked very well for the left. If it's not broke--don't fix it.

You're the one defending intercontinental over-ocean choo-chops, replacing/ updating EVERY BUILDING IN THE UNITED STATES, forcing all the workers doing this to be union members, etc...and the little socialist girl who said it was all going to happen in 10 years...

. BWUHAHAHAHAHA

 

[francoHFW]

My plan is to let God run his earth. We are merely visitors. We don't control anything when it comes to the environment.

Don't be afraid of the things people make up, be afraid of the things you can see.

Snowflakes have been brainwashed / indoctrinated into believing what they are told by their masters.

And when the oceans don't flood all the cities in the coast lime Gore told them it would they just discard that fact and wait for the next lie to be told so they can parrot it...

Fear and brainwashing has worked very well for the left. If it's not broke--don't fix it.

The hell it has worked for the left. The left hasn't gotten anything they want in the last 50 years except ACA and that is sabotaged.

 

[francoHFW]

My plan is to let God run his earth. We are merely visitors. We don't control anything when it comes to the environment.

Don't be afraid of the things people make up, be afraid of the things you can see.

Snowflakes have been brainwashed / indoctrinated into believing what they are told by their masters.

And when the oceans don't flood all the cities in the coast lime Gore told them it would they just discard that fact and wait for the next lie to be told so they can parrot it...

Fear and brainwashing has worked very well for the left. If it's not broke--don't fix it.

You're the one defending intercontinental over-ocean choo-chops, replacing/ updating EVERY BUILDING IN THE UNITED STATES, forcing all the workers doing this to be union members, etc...and the little socialist girl who said it was all going to happen in 10 years...

. BWUHAHAHAHAHA

And of course none of that is in what she wants that passed the house...

 

[Obejoekenobe]

What’s been economically destructive is laissez faire capitalism. That trickle down bullshit has never worked.

List of companies that paid bonuses or boosted pay since tax bill passed

Let me explain it too you in GW Bush speak so you understand.

Rich billionaire makes 100 million a year doing whatever.

The little ole socialist in me comes along and snatches say 3/4 of it, i’ll make the math simple so as not confound you.

Billionaire is left with 25 million. Is he going to suffer?

I don’t think so.

Now I take that 75 million and start investing and or subsidizing, renewable energy and our electrical infrastructure, Fission energy development etc.

We start training Joe six-pack to work on this 21st century renewable energy infrastructure. Employment goes up, wages go up and as a result that people are making more money.... they’re spending more money.

Is this good for the economy? Yes it is.

Is this good for the billionaire? I don’t see how it’s not. If the economy is going up and people have more money to spend he can’t BUT HELP make money lest he’s an idiot like Trump.

We can build a green economy for the 21st century. It’s not socialism. It’s just common sense. We just move money we’re spending on old polluting technologies and move it to the green side.

A simple first step?

Institute a carbon tax.

And then raise taxes on the wealthy. They’re not going to miss it and they’ll get it back on the back side of our new economy.

 

[easyt65]

The hell it has worked for the left. The left hasn't gotten anything they want in the last 50 years except ACA and that is sabotaged.

Great....the only thing they wanted and got was based off of lies and f*ed the country...

What ithey wanted was a program designed to fail, the 1st step towards single payer...that will cost between $34-35 TRILLION in new debt over 10 years.

Thank God for them NOT getting everything they wanted or want...

They wanted HLLARY, a corrupt, criminal, self-serving bitch who broke laws, compromised national security, & worked with / paid US-hating foreign spies and Russians to try to help her win in 2016.

They wanted to take down the President with the exposed Conspiracy that has gone for over 2 years...

They wanted to Destroy a good man and his entire life, preventing him from becoming a USSC Justice...

They wanted to pass bills that would allow them to murder infants AFTER THEY HAD BEEN BORN...

THANK GOD THEY GOT NONE OF THAT.

 

[baileyn45]

No kidding. Solar is great but it just isn't viable Neither is wind.

If neither were viable, they wouldn’t be building solar and wind farms and renewable energy labor wouldn’t be the fastest growing job market.

Renewable Energy Record Set in U.S.

You'll note that the article points to the private sector pushing this along. It's what many of us have said for years, keep the govt out of it. They'll just screw it up.

Has government screwed up the oil industry with subsidies?

The renewable industry has expanded with government subsidies. Same as the oil industry.

Talk to Ray from Cleveland.

Oh I agree that it's all subsidized but let's face it, the plans being put forth are hardly simple subsidies. Not to mention the silly notion of carbon free by 2030. In addition the current slate of renewables just won't do it. Wind and solar aren't going to keep my house livable when it's 10 deg outside and I haven't seen the sun in a month. It's a nice thought just not realistic. Not only the energy itself but the infrastructure is mind boggling. I keep hearing people compare this plan to the lunar mission or the interstate highway, those were minute projects compared to these proposals. I like bold audacious plans but this is just silly, I much prefer realistic.

There is no requirement for subsidies in bill, although there probably will be.
There is no requirement for carbon free by 2030

Global temperature (increase) must be kept below 1.5 degrees Celsius above preindustrialized levels to avoid the most severe impacts of a changing climate, which will require—

• 
  (A) global reductions in greenhouse gas emissions from human sources of 40 to 60 percent from 2010 levels by 2030; and

(B) net-zero global emissions by 2050​

In many ways this bill lays out lofty goals but like the Paris Accord is short on details as to what is to be done and how it is to be done.

Text - H.Res.109 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): Recognizing the duty of the Federal Government to create a Green New Deal.

There is no requirement for subsidies in bill, although there probably will be.
There is no requirement for carbon free by 2030

OK, 40 - 60% reduction by 2030, 0 by 2050(global? Now that's truly absurd). That's better, still ain't gonna happen. I know it's not mandated but it's an absurd target.

Global temperature (increase) must be kept below 1.5 degrees Celsius above preindustrialized levels to avoid the most severe impacts of a changing climate, which will require—

This is where I call shenanigans. Must be kept below 1.5deg, based on what? I've listened to this argument ad infinitum and I still have never heard one shred of evidence that supports that doom and gloom. It's an entirely arbitrary number based on models that have proven to be way off and have been issued by bureaucrats at the UN.

In many ways this bill lays out lofty goals but like the Paris Accord is short on details as to what is to be done and how it is to be done.

Short on details is an understatement.

The rest of the bill sounds like it should be called the "We're going to create utopia and right all past wrongs and all the children will be above average bill" I like dreaming too, but for heaven's sake.

I do think they left some things out, here's my short list...

All the girls will be pretty
All the boys will be handsome
We're going to colonize Mars
No one will ever be sad
No more disease
Everyone's favorite ball team will win the World Series every year
Everyone gets a flying car
No one has to work more 12 minutes a week
All humanity will live in peace and sing kumbaya
No more war
No more crime
Birds will sing louder and more beautifully
Cats and dogs will get along
Mosquitos will ask permission before biting
Pizza and ice cream won't be fattening
Recreational drugs will plentiful and not harmful
Sex will better than ever
Etc............

 

[Thinker101]

If neither were viable, they wouldn’t be building solar and wind farms and renewable energy labor wouldn’t be the fastest growing job market.

Renewable Energy Record Set in U.S.

You'll note that the article points to the private sector pushing this along. It's what many of us have said for years, keep the govt out of it. They'll just screw it up.

Has government screwed up the oil industry with subsidies?

The renewable industry has expanded with government subsidies. Same as the oil industry.

Talk to Ray from Cleveland.

Oh I agree that it's all subsidized but let's face it, the plans being put forth are hardly simple subsidies. Not to mention the silly notion of carbon free by 2030. In addition the current slate of renewables just won't do it. Wind and solar aren't going to keep my house livable when it's 10 deg outside and I haven't seen the sun in a month. It's a nice thought just not realistic. Not only the energy itself but the infrastructure is mind boggling. I keep hearing people compare this plan to the lunar mission or the interstate highway, those were minute projects compared to these proposals. I like bold audacious plans but this is just silly, I much prefer realistic.

There is no requirement for subsidies in bill, although there probably will be.
There is no requirement for carbon free by 2030

Global temperature (increase) must be kept below 1.5 degrees Celsius above preindustrialized levels to avoid the most severe impacts of a changing climate, which will require—

• 
  (A) global reductions in greenhouse gas emissions from human sources of 40 to 60 percent from 2010 levels by 2030; and

(B) net-zero global emissions by 2050​

In many ways this bill lays out lofty goals but like the Paris Accord is short on details as to what is to be done and how it is to be done.

Text - H.Res.109 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): Recognizing the duty of the Federal Government to create a Green New Deal.

There is no requirement for subsidies in bill, although there probably will be.
There is no requirement for carbon free by 2030

OK, 40 - 60% reduction by 2030, 0 by 2050(global? Now that's truly absurd). That's better, still ain't gonna happen. I know it's not mandated but it's an absurd target.

Global temperature (increase) must be kept below 1.5 degrees Celsius above preindustrialized levels to avoid the most severe impacts of a changing climate, which will require—

This is where I call shenanigans. Must be kept below 1.5deg, based on what? I've listened to this argument ad infinitum and I still have never heard one shred of evidence that supports that doom and gloom. It's an entirely arbitrary number based on models that have proven to be way off and have been issued by bureaucrats at the UN.

In many ways this bill lays out lofty goals but like the Paris Accord is short on details as to what is to be done and how it is to be done.

Short on details is an understatement.

The rest of the bill sounds like it should be called the "We're going to create utopia and right all past wrongs and all the children will be above average bill" I like dreaming too, but for heaven's sake.

I do think they left some things out, here's my short list...

All the girls will be pretty
All the boys will be handsome
We're going to colonize Mars
No one will ever be sad
No more disease
Everyone's favorite ball team will win the World Series every year
Everyone gets a flying car
No one has to work more 12 minutes a week
All humanity will live in peace and sing kumbaya
No more war
No more crime
Birds will sing louder and more beautifully
Cats and dogs will get along
Mosquitos will ask permission before biting
Pizza and ice cream won't be fattening
Recreational drugs will plentiful and not harmful
Sex will better than ever
Etc............

What the heck? There will be boys and girls? What happened to gender neutral.

 

[francoHFW]

The hell it has worked for the left. The left hasn't gotten anything they want in the last 50 years except ACA and that is sabotaged.

Great....the only thing they wanted and got was based off of lies and f*ed the country...

What ithey wanted was a program designed to fail, the 1st step towards single payer...that will cost between $34-35 TRILLION in new debt over 10 years.

Thank God for them NOT getting everything they wanted or want...

They wanted HLLARY, a corrupt, criminal, self-serving bitch who broke laws, compromised national security, & worked with / paid US-hating foreign spies and Russians to try to help her win in 2016.

They wanted to take down the President with the exposed Conspiracy that has gone for over 2 years...

They wanted to Destroy a good man and his entire life, preventing him from becoming a USSC Justice...

They wanted to pass bills that would allow them to murder infants AFTER THEY HAD BEEN BORN...

THANK GOD THEY GOT NONE OF THAT.

All lies, super duper. You got the award for brainwashed, congratulations.when any of your phony scandals reach the real world of law enforcement and journalism anywhere in the world, give me a call, dumbass doup.

 

[easyt65]

My plan is to let God run his earth. We are merely visitors. We don't control anything when it comes to the environment.

Don't be afraid of the things people make up, be afraid of the things you can see.

Snowflakes have been brainwashed / indoctrinated into believing what they are told by their masters.

And when the oceans don't flood all the cities in the coast lime Gore told them it would they just discard that fact and wait for the next lie to be told so they can parrot it...

Fear and brainwashing has worked very well for the left. If it's not broke--don't fix it.

You're the one defending intercontinental over-ocean choo-chops, replacing/ updating EVERY BUILDING IN THE UNITED STATES, forcing all the workers doing this to be union members, etc...and the little socialist girl who said it was all going to happen in 10 years...

. BWUHAHAHAHAHA

And of course none of that is in what she wants that passed the house...

Yet you keep trying to skip over the humiliating roll-out of the highly touted AOC Green New DISASTER that called for all of that.

Wishing it never happened does not make it so....it was the biggest joke on the world stage seen since Barry's 'Red Line'...

 

[Markle]

Control can also mean regulation, dumbass dupe. Like every intelligent rich country in the world that doesn't have greedy idiot GOP dupes running things... Everywhere outside your bubble of stupid ignorance and garbage propaganda, socialism is defined as well regulated capitalism with a good safety net. "We are all socialists now!" --Finland prime minister when ObamaCare passed... Guess what shithead dupe? Everyone in the world but you brainwashed jackasses who deny global warming and progressive taxation know what socialism is since people found out the USSR was a totalitarian scam. Most successful modern countries have socialist parties and none of them thinks socialism is communism. Wake up and smell the coffee. Only the brainwashed GOP morons...

No you ignorant and uneducated sot, socialism is not capitalism of any form.

Capitalism is based on a free market. Prices are determined by supply and demand. Now you're in my backyard. Arguing economics with me is very dumb, as you have found on dozens of occasions.

The issue we have is that you lack a grasp of the most basic and fundamental concepts. I speak of the market, but you have no idea what that means. Simply put, a market is an exchange of value for value. The seller will relinquish goods if the value of money offered is greater TO HIM than the value of his good. The buyer will offer cash if the goods are of greater value TO HIM than the cash. No one save the buyer and seller have input into what the value of the goods are. Price then follows the judgement of buyers and sellers.

I teach freshmen who grasp these concepts, but YOU fucking don't, regardless of how many times and how basic I explain it to you. Under socialism, the GOVERNMENT is the only entity that decides value. The market is perverted. Under Communism the market is eradicated. Any system where an entity other than the buyer or seller set the price of goods is NOT capitalism.

Would it be socialism if we taxed millionaires and billionaires at 70%?

I don't know about Socialism, but it would be economically destructive.

I say we should tax the other 40 some percent that pay no income taxes at all. All you people on the left are gimme, gimme, gimme, and send the bill to somebody else. Perhaps if you had to start paying for all these goodies, you'd lose interest in getting them.

John Stossel: Tax The Rich? The Rich Don't Have Enough. Really.

That is b******* propaganda. If you count all taxes everybody pays about the same rate and the rich make out like bandits...

If you count all taxes everybody pays about the same

What’s been economically destructive is laissez faire capitalism. That trickle down bullshit has never worked.

We do not have laissez-faire capitalism. We already have hundreds of thousands of laws guiding capitalism. Unquestionably, fifty percent of them should be scrapped.

It has been tried. Just makes the inequality and corruption even worse
....

Well, "if you count all taxes everybody pays about the same rate", it's quite fair.

Easily said by those who pay no income taxes.

 

[easyt65]

The hell it has worked for the left. The left hasn't gotten anything they want in the last 50 years except ACA and that is sabotaged.

Great....the only thing they wanted and got was based off of lies and f*ed the country...

What ithey wanted was a program designed to fail, the 1st step towards single payer...that will cost between $34-35 TRILLION in new debt over 10 years.

Thank God for them NOT getting everything they wanted or want...

They wanted HLLARY, a corrupt, criminal, self-serving bitch who broke laws, compromised national security, & worked with / paid US-hating foreign spies and Russians to try to help her win in 2016.

They wanted to take down the President with the exposed Conspiracy that has gone for over 2 years...

They wanted to Destroy a good man and his entire life, preventing him from becoming a USSC Justice...

They wanted to pass bills that would allow them to murder infants AFTER THEY HAD BEEN BORN...

THANK GOD THEY GOT NONE OF THAT.

All lies, super duper. .

WTF? Franco...were you dropped on your head recently?

Are you trying to say you DIDN'T want Hillary to win, that you DIDN'T want Single Payer, that you DIDN'T want Kavanaugh to be stopped, that you DIDN'T want Trump to be stopped...

NOW LOOK WHO'S LYING.....

 

[Flopper]

• It does not specify a date for elimination of fossil fuel. Therefore it is simply long term goal.
• There is no mention of nuclear energy
• There is no mention of eliminating cars or motor vehicles at all
• Gut and rebuild every building in America. - No such requirement
• Air travel is not addressed
• A government-guaranteed job. No, it only mentions high quality good paying jobs, not government
• Free education for life -No mention of free education but provide training, and high-quality education
• Free money - providing economic security does not mean free money
• Ban Meat - your assumption, not in the bill

It appears you have not even bothered to read the bill introduce in congress this year or wouldn't be making such asinine comments.
Here's The Full Text Of Congress' Green New Deal Resolution, Introduced By Rep. Alexandra Ocasio Cortez | CleanTechnica

Bill itself doesn't specify details. Bill is just foot in the door. Just like, for example, Obamacare did initially.

Listen what she's saying, and every time she open's her mouth she confirms one, or several points you listed above. For instance, she run her mouth again about price tag.

Ocasio-Cortez defends $40 trillion price tag for progressive proposals

And just when her supporters defended her by saying it's not government takeover, she actually confirmed that she supports it, and have no problem with that.

How much the cost, and how many lives lost, if we don’t do nothing? I don’t think those wild fires, hurricanes, droughts and floods are going to come cheap.

Right, because we never had those things before the first factory opened up in this country.

Looks like she include in her interview everything she could think of from Medicare for all to Free Colleges to College Loan forgiveness to saving the earth. I would like see what the House Ways and Means Committee does with this bill. I expect it will die in some committee.

When she runs for office, no matter what the problem, she can say she sponsored a bill to fix it. This is hardly even worth discussing.

 

[easyt65]

No you ignorant and uneducated sot, socialism is not capitalism of any form.

Capitalism is based on a free market. Prices are determined by supply and demand. Now you're in my backyard. Arguing economics with me is very dumb, as you have found on dozens of occasions.

The issue we have is that you lack a grasp of the most basic and fundamental concepts. I speak of the market, but you have no idea what that means. Simply put, a market is an exchange of value for value. The seller will relinquish goods if the value of money offered is greater TO HIM than the value of his good. The buyer will offer cash if the goods are of greater value TO HIM than the cash. No one save the buyer and seller have input into what the value of the goods are. Price then follows the judgement of buyers and sellers.

I teach freshmen who grasp these concepts, but YOU fucking don't, regardless of how many times and how basic I explain it to you. Under socialism, the GOVERNMENT is the only entity that decides value. The market is perverted. Under Communism the market is eradicated. Any system where an entity other than the buyer or seller set the price of goods is NOT capitalism.

Would it be socialism if we taxed millionaires and billionaires at 70%?

I don't know about Socialism, but it would be economically destructive.

I say we should tax the other 40 some percent that pay no income taxes at all. All you people on the left are gimme, gimme, gimme, and send the bill to somebody else. Perhaps if you had to start paying for all these goodies, you'd lose interest in getting them.

John Stossel: Tax The Rich? The Rich Don't Have Enough. Really.

That is b******* propaganda. If you count all taxes everybody pays about the same rate and the rich make out like bandits...

If you count all taxes everybody pays about the same

What’s been economically destructive is laissez faire capitalism. That trickle down bullshit has never worked.

We do not have laissez-faire capitalism. We already have hundreds of thousands of laws guiding capitalism. Unquestionably, fifty percent of them should be scrapped.

It has been tried. Just makes the inequality and corruption even worse
....

Well, "if you count all taxes everybody pays about the same rate", it's quite fair.

Easily said by those who pay no income taxes.

Like the illegals Democrats keep bringing into the US?

Do Democrats think companies would pay more in taxes than the record setting amount of taxes we just collected due to a recotmrd number of Americans now working thanks to Trump?

I guess that depends if Democrats will get to bleed 'the rich' dry with their 90% 'class warfare tax' they want to pass...

 

[Flopper]

What’s been economically destructive is laissez faire capitalism. That trickle down bullshit has never worked.

List of companies that paid bonuses or boosted pay since tax bill passed

Yeah, with my tax rebate.

 

[easyt65]

• It does not specify a date for elimination of fossil fuel. Therefore it is simply long term goal.
• There is no mention of nuclear energy
• There is no mention of eliminating cars or motor vehicles at all
• Gut and rebuild every building in America. - No such requirement
• Air travel is not addressed
• A government-guaranteed job. No, it only mentions high quality good paying jobs, not government
• Free education for life -No mention of free education but provide training, and high-quality education
• Free money - providing economic security does not mean free money
• Ban Meat - your assumption, not in the bill

It appears you have not even bothered to read the bill introduce in congress this year or wouldn't be making such asinine comments.
Here's The Full Text Of Congress' Green New Deal Resolution, Introduced By Rep. Alexandra Ocasio Cortez | CleanTechnica

Bill itself doesn't specify details. Bill is just foot in the door. Just like, for example, Obamacare did initially.

Listen what she's saying, and every time she open's her mouth she confirms one, or several points you listed above. For instance, she run her mouth again about price tag.

Ocasio-Cortez defends $40 trillion price tag for progressive proposals

And just when her supporters defended her by saying it's not government takeover, she actually confirmed that she supports it, and have no problem with that.

How much the cost, and how many lives lost, if we don’t do nothing? I don’t think those wild fires, hurricanes, droughts and floods are going to come cheap.

Right, because we never had those things before the first factory opened up in this country.

Looks like she include in her interview everything she could think of from Medicare for all to Free Colleges to College Loan forgiveness to saving the earth. I would like see what the House Ways and Means Committee does with this bill. I expect it will die in some committee.

When she runs for office, no matter what the problem, she can say she sponsored a bill to fix it. This is hardly even worth discussing.

she even wants to make ELECTORAL COLLEGE TUITION 'free'.

 

[Ame®icano]

Black markets, hyperinflation, and shortages existed in Weimar Republic of the 20's. Under Hitler, Germany experience full employment without the inflation and shortages of the 20's. In fact, the economic success of Germany, primarily due to huge deficits was the envy of all Europe which still languished in the depression.

Germany's economy was improving under Hindenburg and with help of Dawes plan that lowered reparation cost and provided huge loans from US, long before Hitler got power. When US markets crashed, that effected Germany when Hindenburg dissolved the parliament and called for new elections.While campaigning, Hitler offered what every socialist always offers, things listed in party program.

The only characteristic that Nazism shared with socialism is government control but that is far from being unique to socialism. Private ownership, private industry, entrepreneurship, and a strong class structure all existed in Nazi Germany. Capitalism certain existed in Nazi Germany under the watchful eye of Reich. In the mid-1930s, the Nazi regime transferred public ownership to the private sector controlled by the cartels.

Yes. there was private ownership, private industry, who in large part financed Hitler. When National Socialst German Worker's Party got 18% of the vote in election, money started pouring to NSDAP from rich businesses who invested in Hitler in hope to get favors when he get in power, and that's exactly what he was promising to provide when he get in power. He failed to get majority three times in 1932, and Hindenburg refused to name him chancellor, even with those industrialists, bankers, and businessmen send petitions asking him to appoint him. Those petitions paid big for them later when Hitler became chancellor.

Karl Marx, recognized as the father of socialism would have turned over in his grave at hearing Nazism called socialism. In fact, in the 1930's teaching of classic socialism would likely have got you fired if not worse.

As usual, Marx was wrong, as he predicted that socialism will come with proletarian revolution against bourgeoisie, and in industrial countries. How many proletarian revolutions in industrial countries happened? Zero. Also, the Marxist "doctrine" has been claimed to be a democratic one. Only way socialism ever gained power is by using violence to gain control which is not the principle of a democratic doctrine.

 

[easyt65]

She said Cuban refugees will soon be able to take the train over to the US instead of those little man-made boats.

 

[easyt65]

Black markets, hyperinflation, and shortages existed in Weimar Republic of the 20's. Under Hitler, Germany experience full employment without the inflation and shortages of the 20's. In fact, the economic success of Germany, primarily due to huge deficits was the envy of all Europe which still languished in the depression.

Germany's economy was improving under Hindenburg and with help of Dawes plan that lowered reparation cost and provided huge loans from US, long before Hitler got power. When US markets crashed, that effected Germany when Hindenburg dissolved the parliament and called for new elections.While campaigning, Hitler offered what every socialist always offers, things listed in party program.

The only characteristic that Nazism shared with socialism is government control but that is far from being unique to socialism. Private ownership, private industry, entrepreneurship, and a strong class structure all existed in Nazi Germany. Capitalism certain existed in Nazi Germany under the watchful eye of Reich. In the mid-1930s, the Nazi regime transferred public ownership to the private sector controlled by the cartels.

Yes. there was private ownership, private industry, who in large part financed Hitler. When National Socialst German Worker's Party got 18% of the vote in election, money started pouring to NSDAP from rich businesses who invested in Hitler in hope to get favors when he get in power, and that's exactly what he was promising to provide when he get in power. He failed to get majority three times in 1932, and Hindenburg refused to name him chancellor, even with those industrialists, bankers, and businessmen send petitions asking him to appoint him. Those petitions paid big for them later when Hitler became chancellor.

Karl Marx, recognized as the father of socialism would have turned over in his grave at hearing Nazism called socialism. In fact, in the 1930's teaching of classic socialism would likely have got you fired if not worse.

As usual, Marx was wrong, as he predicted that socialism will come with proletarian revolution against bourgeoisie, and in industrial countries. How many proletarian revolutions in industrial countries happened? Zero. Also, the Marxist "doctrine" has been claimed to be a democratic one. Only way socialism ever gained power is by using violence to gain control which is not the principle of a democratic doctrine.

Marx said the US would never be taken over from the outside, that it would happen from within. Marx was right, its happening already from the Left.