CDZ Gun culture? or Disrespectful culture? Where does gun violence come from?

[emilynghiem]

There are only two possible ways to effectively reduce the unlawful use of firearms in the U.S. One way is to empower government to disarm the civilian population by any means necessary. The second way is to substantially increase the number of armed civilians by licensing any citizen who is (a) able to pass a test affirming his/her sanity, clean, non-violent background, competence and capabilities equal to the average police officer, or (b) willing to acquire training sufficient to qualify for licensing to carry.

Either proven proficiency or sufficient training to qualify for licensing is critically important and will effectively minimize improper use of firearms.

Neither of those addresses gun violence, the latter makes it worse, and it does not go unnoticed that the poster moves the goalposts from "gun violene" to "unlawfu
l use of firearms". We can readily point out that gun violence may be either lawful or unlawful.

And the entire post seems to operate from the starting point of the myth articulated above, that "guns are the answer to everything" and the only question is who gets one. This issue needs a far more basic questioning than that.

"The law" is irrelevant here. Unless one is prepared to make the case that the law either causes, or solves, the issue of gun violence. It cannot do that.

Pogo
The use of the law that would solve the issue of gun violence
is included in the training that MikeK is prescribing

when people like NRA members AGREE the use of arms is for defense of law,
then nobody breaks laws.

So teaching and enforcing the laws correctly
(as in the Bill of Rights that includes right to security in our
persons houses and effects and not to be deprived of liberty
life or property without due process of laws)
means everyone within that group or district
agrees to comply with laws.

Proper education and training solves its own issues.
We use the law to check against abuses.
That's teaching due process!

Laws are irrelevant to culture. Culture cannot be "legislated".

Ready example --- far far fewer people smoke cigarettes now than did say 75 years ago. That wasn't because we passed "laws". It's because we shifted the culture to make it uncool. The same movie house that still shows endless gratuitous violence --- also doesn't show everyday people smoking, as it used to. That's cultural shift. It's getting inside hearts and minds. You can't do that with "laws".

So the idea here is to shift the cultural idea that "killing is cool" and make it UNcool. Will it still happen? Of course, but when you dampen the collective desire, a desire based on a value of destruction --- it happens a lot less. As smoking did.

Dear Pogo
What I've seen stop people from smoking drinking etc
is when they are fully healed of past issues that skew
our judgment and emotional reactions and patterns.
On that level of deep change, it's not about being cool
though that might work with today's "culture" as first step to considering change.
The real change happens on an internal level much deeper than just the surface appearance.

But once spiritual healing catches on, and people know
that it cures all kinds of unhealthy conditions and habits
then there won't be such a high demand for pot or any drugs.

Knowledge of the law is what changes people
and liberates them from past patterns.

People have totally changed their mindset and cultures this way.
No you cannot legislate it through govt!
That's why the Right is so critical of the left for relying on govt solutions.
that's not the longterm solution.
If you rely on govt, then those policies can change and you
can lose your health care or whatever else you depended on govt for.

When you rely on yourself and build programs by
your own participating investment and choice
then you have ownership and empowerment.

So we need to create a culture of ownership.
Since this is based on respecting free choice
of course, it can't be mandated by govt or it's contradictory

Again that's why the Right thinks the left is insane.
On one hand the Liberals keep preaching for free choice
and wanting inclusion; but expect to get it by depending on govt
to regulate choices, and excluding any beliefs to the contrary.
So it's against free choice and inclusion while preaching for these things!

The culture changes when people see examples,
proof and experience that they can create what they believe
without depending on bullying, party, govt.

Luther taught this to people by teaching them the
laws that they could govern themselves by without
relying on Catholic church authorities to dictate for them
as middle men. Now we are coming to a similar stage
in social development where govt is going through a
similar reform, and people are learning the laws that
empower "we the people" to govern ourselves.

Once people embody these laws they become independent.
What conservatives are calling being "freed from the plantation"
and no longer under the corporate masters buying and selling
voters while pulling the strings on media and public policy.

We become freed from the puppet strings and can
operate on our own. Not relying on one party or
another bullying each other out of office out of fear
we aren't going to protect our representation without them.

Yes, we can represent ourselves by learning to respect
each other independent of govt. What a concept!

 

[emilynghiem]

That depends on your definition of "gun culture". Most people, especially among the left, don't know the difference between "gun culture" and the culture of firearms violence portrayed in movies, on television, and in music.

Those two are pretty much interchangeable in my definition.

Good, let's work this out.

The Oxford dictionary defines “culture” as a collective human intellectual achievement and our “refined” understanding and appreciation of it, particularly the customs, arts, social institutions, attitudes and behaviors characteristic of a particular social group.

I agree with that definition. Now let's plug it in.

I myself consider myself part of the gun culture, as the most important social group I belong to are other firearms owners, shooters, hunters, collectors, reloaders, etc. Nobody I know would even think of committing a crime with a firearm and losing our right to own one.

Outside of "nobody I know would even think of..." none of that incorporates what I mean by "gun culture". It's about cultural values, meaning desires. The desire to vanquish, overpower, shoot, blow up, obliterate, destroy, dominate, eliminate, wipe out, extinguish, "take out" and all the other copious euphemisms we have. Those are disrespectful of Life. And that's the basis of a culture of death.

For our purposes here "culture of death" and "gun culture" may be also interchageable, as the firearm is our obvious instrument of choice, whether it's direct in our hands or indirect watching it vicariously on a TV show or virtually handling it in a video game. It all begins with a compulsion to destroy.

Here's my model starting point for the concept of "gun culture" --- this was the hot topic at the moment I joined this site, and the issue I came for:

​

The reader will notice the video is described as a "gun control" rant. In fact out of hundreds of uploads of the same thing you'd be hard pressed to find one that does not describe it as such. Yet the speaker never once mentions anything about 'gun control', never once mentions anything about any "laws" or "rights" real or suggested, never mentions the Second Amendment. His entire commentary is about Gun Culture, which means a mindset. And yet allllllllll these video uploaders call it a "gun control" speech, which tells us that they're not listening.

It's exacty what I've been talking about on this site for five years and generally nobody listens to me either, preferring to shift back to an imaginary point about "laws" or something, which are irrelevant to it. And that in turn tells me it's very uncomfortable to bring up, because it hits close to home, and that means it's an emotional investment, i.e. once again -- a fetish.

Close Pogo I know you mean well
but please be careful
someone can have religious beliefs about the Bible or Bill of Rights
and it's not necessarily an obsessive fetish

You'd have to break this down more
so you aren't painting all beliefs as fetishes.

Which are positive for defense of laws
and which are negative and become oppressive
(this is similar to breaking down the difference between
peaceful Muslims, oppressive Islamist regimes,
and the most dangerous Jihadist terrorists.
These three levels of faith or belief are not the same at all)

otherwise, that's what's happening on the left,
the focus on gun control as the solution is painted as a fetish

So this isn't helping either side
We need to be more clear on both counts.

I have never said, or implied in the slightest, that "all beliefs are fetishes". Where are you even getting that? I pointed out ONE (1) fetish and described it --- I said nothing about "all beliefs" or about "religions"

A "fetish" is the worship of an inanimate object. Has nothing to do with "religion". Another fetish for instance is memorialized in the phrase "I pledge allegiance to the flag" (not to a country but to a "flag"). Worship of an inanimate object.

Yes Pogo that's YOUR perception of the gun culture
as almost like worshipping the gun as a fetish.

That's not fair to pigeonhole ALL gun defenders
as having this "fetish" as their focus. That's actually insulting.

I would compare it to how some people see all
transgender as mentally ill, or all homosexuals as pedophiles!

So I would discourage this confusion with painting it as a fetish.
If that's your opinion you have the right and responsibility for it,
but it's unfair to blame that on the people you see this way.

If people are mentally obsessed and stockpiling weapons and
ammo because they are cultishly paranoid of govt takeover,
that's an ADDICTION and it can be cured by the spiritual
healing therapy. it's based on disproportional FEAR.

It sounded to me you were equating all beliefs about
the right to guns as a fetish. so I said no that isn't fair.

 

[Pogo]

Here's a pertinent summary from a recent thread. The writer takes forever to get to her point but I went in there and dragged it out ----

From the thread Mass Shootings Are a Symptom of a Problem That Gun Control Won’t Solve

>> Our problem, a problem that has bled into every level of our society, is simple. We are a nation that does not value life.

This country was built on the genocide of its native inhabitants and not long after we bought and sold humans as if they were commodities. We have occupied nations and murdered their inhabitants for years. We have been at war with the idea of terror for SIXTEEN YEARS. And we wholeheartedly support a nation actively engaged in apartheid.

Each one of these things is woven into the fabric of our very beings. Each one of these things is connected to our identity as citizens of the United States. And each one of these things influences the actions of our nation today. On our own soil there continues to be a race and class struggle that results in the ruining of lives and actual loss of life. Halfway around the world our nation is responsible for the murder of innocent lives. Every single day children die at the hands of the United States or because of something our nation had its hands in. There is no ignoring this and there is no way to gloss it over.

The United States is DIRECTLY responsible for the deaths of over 4 million Muslims. Four million. Pause for a moment and let that number sit in your mind. Picture it and then try to picture 4 million people. Do you even know what 4 million people looks like? That’s the population of Los Angeles.

And who bats an eye? Hardly anyone. Collateral damage. Consequences. We make excuses daily. But every time we allow more death and destruction in our names, we allow that death and destruction to seep into the fabric of who we are.

The children who are dying at the hands of their classmates have lived in a world in which their nation has been at war for their entire lives. They see it on the news, they see television shows and movies that glorify the war on terror, and they play video games set in actual war zones. Most of us cannot even begin to imagine how this might influence development or perception of the world, reality, and understanding of the role we play the greater collective of humanity. They have grown up with a constant enemy, a constant vibration of unrest and violence in their universe.

... But the problem is us. The problem is our culture. As long as we praise a former president who carried out hundreds of drone strikes, as long as we idly sit by while we provide the means for deadly famine in Yemen, as long as we refuse to aid victims of natural disasters, continue to spend $8.3 million per hour on war and perpetuate a culture of sexual exploitation of minors, school shootings, mass shootings, and other untold violence will continue on our soil.

It’s high time we remove the bandages and repair the underlying disease and decay that is embedded in the flesh of our nation. We must fully grasp our place in the universal collective of the human race and act with love, compassion and caring toward our physical neighbors as well as our brothers and sisters across the globe. We are one. And until we act like it our nation will continue to crumble, and reports of school shootings and violence will continue to flash across television screens across the country and on smart phones in the hands of Americans. <<​

"We are a nation that does not value life". As I keep putting it, a culture of Death. That sums it up in a single sentence. All these butthurt attacks on kids crying out for their own lives, all this pseudo-patriotic bullshit from the NRA and its useful idiots on boards like this, the pic in post 14, the fact that we have been at some war or other for not only these kids' lifetimes but our own as well, the fact that we spend more on War than the most of the rest of the world put together, these are manifestations of that Culture of Death and screaming clues to what our underlying issue really is.

/end paste

 

[Pogo]

Yes Pogo that's YOUR perception of the gun culture
as almost like worshipping the gun as a fetish.

That's not fair to pigeonhole ALL gun defenders
as having this "fetish" as their focus. That's actually insulting.

OK well if you have no mission but to contradict everything I write and try to twist it into something I didn't say, I don't see the point in going on. As already noted I've had five years of people not listening to me and plugging in what they want, so this isn't new.

 

[emilynghiem]

Yes Pogo that's YOUR perception of the gun culture
as almost like worshipping the gun as a fetish.

That's not fair to pigeonhole ALL gun defenders
as having this "fetish" as their focus. That's actually insulting.

OK well if you have no mission but to contradict everything I write and try to twist it into something I didn't say, I don't see the point in going on. As already noted I've had five years of people not listening to me and plugging in what they want, so this isn't new.

I was just saying it isn't accurate to paint it as a fetish
when this is about people's beliefs in shared responsibility for law enforcement.

What did you mean if you didn't mean to paint it NEGATIVELY as
a fetish as if it's about the GUN?

Pogo
and what do you mean that the LAW isn't part of the CULTURE?
WHAT?

The whole rift between right and left
is that Right belief that natural laws areinherent in the people.
The Left believes rights depend on GOVT.

So YES it's cultural difference in how we views LAWS
based on our BELIEFS. it's not a FETISH it's differences in BELIEFS.

Can you explain your point again because clearly I missed it.

Isn't it because the Liberals don't see the laws as naturally inherent
in the people that this "gun culture" comes across as focused on the GUN
not the LAWS.

is this close?

 

[Pogo]

We would be remiss if we did not mention the fact that culture (particularly in the information age) does not just evolve organically. There are people who have the power to influence the direction of the culture, and who benefit greatly from a culture of violence. A dangerous combination.

Politicians who want an increasingly militarized police force and looser “search and seizure” restrictions may find justification by declaring “war on drugs”. War profiteers have a vested interest in unending conflict, and find a steady stream of revenue from unwinnable wars like the “war on terror”. Those who want to disarm the population to foster greater governmental control and create a monopoly on physical force may use mass shootings to further their cause.

The worldview poisoning via mass media has everybody thinking the world is orders of magnitude more dangerous than their first-hand experience would suggest. This makes people cling to the false promises of protection offered by the politicians, and abide greater infringements into their personal liberty. Never mind the fact that governments are historically responsible for more deaths than anyone else (by a mind-warping margin). And not just deaths of “enemies” in war, but of their own people as well. One man’s “protector” becomes another man’s aggressor.

This leaves one wondering how much of this cultural trend is by design. I would never put it past ambitious people of wealth and influence to manipulate circumstances to suit their own ends. A phone call to a friend in the media; a financial contribution to a political candidate... When you’re high atop the hill, it only takes a little nudge to get the snowball rolling... momentum takes care of the rest.

Excellent salient points, once again highlighting how culture is manipulated.

Another similar example can be seen in the whole "drug testing in the workplace" revolution where it's become commonplace for employers to require (REQUIRE) pee samples as a condition of employment. The fact that a vibrant social wave rises up to 'defend the Second Amendment' while an egregious violation of the Fourth is swallowed whole with nary a whimper, demonstrates again where our cultural value priorities are.

 

[emilynghiem]

We would be remiss if we did not mention the fact that culture (particularly in the information age) does not just evolve organically. There are people who have the power to influence the direction of the culture, and who benefit greatly from a culture of violence. A dangerous combination.

Politicians who want an increasingly militarized police force and looser “search and seizure” restrictions may find justification by declaring “war on drugs”. War profiteers have a vested interest in unending conflict, and find a steady stream of revenue from unwinnable wars like the “war on terror”. Those who want to disarm the population to foster greater governmental control and create a monopoly on physical force may use mass shootings to further their cause.

The worldview poisoning via mass media has everybody thinking the world is orders of magnitude more dangerous than their first-hand experience would suggest. This makes people cling to the false promises of protection offered by the politicians, and abide greater infringements into their personal liberty. Never mind the fact that governments are historically responsible for more deaths than anyone else (by a mind-warping margin). And not just deaths of “enemies” in war, but of their own people as well. One man’s “protector” becomes another man’s aggressor.

This leaves one wondering how much of this cultural trend is by design. I would never put it past ambitious people of wealth and influence to manipulate circumstances to suit their own ends. A phone call to a friend in the media; a financial contribution to a political candidate... When you’re high atop the hill, it only takes a little nudge to get the snowball rolling... momentum takes care of the rest.

Excellent salient points, once again highlighting how culture is manipulated.

Another similar example can be seen in the whole "drug testing in the workplace" revolution where it's become commonplace for employers to require (REQUIRE) pee samples as a condition of employment. The fact that a vibrant social wave rises up to 'defend the Second Amendment' while an egregious violation of the Fourth is swallowed whole with nary a whimper, demonstrates again where our cultural value priorities are.

Dear Pogo and how much would this drug culture and drug war
change if the knowledge and process of healing addictions becomes the focus?
Instead of criminalizing drug use, the focus shifts to health and prevention of abuse?

 

[Brian Blackwell]

Excellent salient points, once again highlighting how culture is manipulated.

Another similar example can be seen in the whole "drug testing in the workplace" revolution where it's become commonplace for employers to require (REQUIRE) pee samples as a condition of employment. The fact that a vibrant social wave rises up to 'defend the Second Amendment' while an egregious violation of the Fourth is swallowed whole with nary a whimper, demonstrates again where our cultural value priorities are.

Yeah, think about that... what is the fundamental principle at play in requiring urine samples? It’s a claim to some percentage of ownership over the person themselves, not just the right to dictate what they do during working hours, as per the employment arrangement.

This is even worse as it regards drug laws overall. At least the employment relationship is mutually voluntary; the “citizen” becomes subject to dictates as to which states of consciousness they may experience without punishment the moment they are born! That’s a claim on a person’s mind and body, without consent (“implied consent” is bogus when the terms of the implication is determined unilaterally, without expressed agreement to the terms by both parties). That’s slavery in my book, be it “free-range” slavery, partial slavery, or however you prefer to think about it.

 

[Brian Blackwell]

Dear Pogo and how much would this drug culture and drug war
change if the knowledge and process of healing addictions becomes the focus?
Instead of criminalizing drug use, the focus shifts to health and prevention of abuse?

Oh, you mean an actual solution, like of the moral, effective variety? That would require an earnest desire to solve the problem, which is unreasonable to presume considering the fact that lawmakers knew precisely what would happen with drug prohibition and did it anyway.

They had the example of alcohol prohibition just a few decades earlier, and saw how it created a violent black market, while not solving the problem of alcoholism at all. To suppose they thought for a moment that this would be any different is beyond the scope of human reason, which leaves us to assume they wanted the violence as a means to some other end.

Such is the nature of government in every regard. Rather than asking, “how can we solve the problem that people are crying out about?”, it’s “how can we use this to fleece them for more cash, and create more restrictive legislation?” I’m no mind reader; I’m just basing this on the outcome of nearly every government “solution” and the nature of ambitious people.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Pogo and how much would this drug culture and drug war
change if the knowledge and process of healing addictions becomes the focus?
Instead of criminalizing drug use, the focus shifts to health and prevention of abuse?

Oh, you mean an actual solution, like of the moral, effective variety? That would require an earnest desire to solve the problem, which is unreasonable to presume considering the fact that lawmakers knew precisely what would happen with drug prohibition and did it anyway.

They had the example of alcohol prohibition just a few decades earlier, and saw how it created a violent black market, while not solving the problem of alcoholism at all. To suppose they thought for a moment that this would be any different is beyond the scope of human reason, which leaves us to assume they wanted the violence as a means to some other end.

Such is the nature of government in every regard. Rather than asking, “how can we solve the problem that people are crying out about?”, it’s “how can we use this to fleece them for more cash, and create more restrictive legislation?” I’m no mind reader; I’m just basing this on the outcome of nearly every government “solution” and the nature of ambitious people.

Hi Brian Blackwell
I mean medical cures to the causes of addictions,
as well as the causes of diseases that require medications and can lead to addictions.

If we treat these issues of drug addiction and abuse (and also criminal illness and disorders)
using a Medical Model, then the focus is on health care, diagnosis and prevention.

NOT on criminalization that gets into due process issues and what the govt can and cannot do.

Keep it as a matter of health care, and it's more individual choice of which we'd rather pay for.
Do we want to keep paying for dependence on drugs and prisons that keep people from working, or would we rather invest in cost effective solutions that actually cure the causes of ills?

Again the Christian methods of spiritual healing have been researched and used to cure all kinds of mental and physical illnesses, naturally and free, so applying that process would drastically reduce the taxes we waste on crime and prisons, when we could be saving more resources and more lives by focusing on medical and health care as the solution.

I believe criminal justice reform is the key for providing universal health care through educational programs that combine teaching and training with low cost public services.

Thanks for posting here in such depth and detail.
I kinda struck out with Pogo but if you speak the same language
we can still communicate even where I blew it somehow! Thank you and keep posting!

 

[emilynghiem]

It's exactly what I've been talking about on this site for five years and generally nobody listens to me either, preferring to shift back to an imaginary point about "laws" or something, which are irrelevant to it. And that in turn tells me it's very uncomfortable to bring up, because it hits close to home, and that means it's an emotional investment, i.e. once again -- a fetish.

^ these are the words you posted Pogo that I took to mean
you DON'T believe the belief about laws has anything to do with it
but you yourself call it an "IMAGINARY POINT ABOUT LAWS"
and then you attribute this "emotional investment" to a FETISH.

Because you don't get that people actually BELIEVE the laws
are natural rights.

It seems to me you then focus on the GUNS not the LAWS.
But then you say it's 'those people with an emotional investment"
that are focusing on the "guns not the laws."

YOU are the one saying the focus/beliefs about laws was an "imaginary point."
Doesn't that mean YOU are the one focusing on the guns because
YOU see the other as "imaginary"?

NOTE: Pogo
I did NOT SAY or MEAN "all beliefs"
I am talking about >>>****THIS BELIEF about laws****<<<
that is part of the Constitutional defense culture.

Do we need to take this up in the Bullring?

My question to you is that if YOU see it as GUNS not LAWS
isn't that YOUR FOCUS ON GUNS. Not the people who
are focused on Constitutional rights and LAWS as a BELIEF where guns are part
of the defense, but the BELIEFS are about the source of Natural laws being self-existent.

That is a faith based belief behind this culture.
So it's not just about guns but about LAWS
which you SAID IN YOUR OWN WORDS
was some "imaginary point" about "laws or something."

How is that other people's fault if you don't see
the beliefs about laws as real so that you only focus on GUNS.

Isn't that YOUR focus?
Tell me if you can reply and work this out here,
or if we need to go into the Bullring and resolve this there!

 

[Kosh]

As we have seen the far left celebrates when others are killed by guns, they hop on their religious narratives and demand action.

In all cases, no law will stop someone that has made up their mind to kill people.

Most of the gun violence could not have been prevented in the first place. As we saw in Florida, even with laws in place, a shooter still got through the system. Because of the fear of racial profiling.

The far left policies make the country less safe.

The far left demonizes police departments, yet claim they want you to refer to them in such a crisis.

Once you get the far left out of policy making, you can begin to make the country and schools much safer.

Even the unions want unsafe schools, for the sole purpose of trying to get more money.

It is sad to watch so many on the far left let this happen, just so they can have their coffers filled.

 

[JGalt]

That depends on your definition of "gun culture". Most people, especially among the left, don't know the difference between "gun culture" and the culture of firearms violence portrayed in movies, on television, and in music.

Those two are pretty much interchangeable in my definition.

Good, let's work this out.

The Oxford dictionary defines “culture” as a collective human intellectual achievement and our “refined” understanding and appreciation of it, particularly the customs, arts, social institutions, attitudes and behaviors characteristic of a particular social group.

I agree with that definition. Now let's plug it in.

I myself consider myself part of the gun culture, as the most important social group I belong to are other firearms owners, shooters, hunters, collectors, reloaders, etc. Nobody I know would even think of committing a crime with a firearm and losing our right to own one.

Outside of "nobody I know would even think of..." none of that incorporates what I mean by "gun culture". It's about cultural values, meaning desires. The desire to vanquish, overpower, shoot, blow up, obliterate, destroy, dominate, eliminate, wipe out, extinguish, "take out" and all the other copious euphemisms we have. Those are disrespectful of Life. And that's the basis of a culture of death.

For our purposes here "culture of death" and "gun culture" may be also interchageable, as the firearm is our obvious instrument of choice, whether it's direct in our hands or indirect watching it vicariously on a TV show or virtually handling it in a video game. It all begins with a compulsion to destroy.

Here's my model starting point for the concept of "gun culture" --- this was the hot topic at the moment I joined this site, and the issue I came for:

​

The reader will notice the video is described as a "gun control" rant. In fact out of hundreds of uploads of the same thing you'd be hard pressed to find one that does not describe it as such. Yet the speaker never once mentions anything about 'gun control', never once mentions anything about any "laws" or "rights" real or suggested, never mentions the Second Amendment. His entire commentary is about Gun Culture, which means a mindset. And yet allllllllll these video uploaders call it a "gun control" speech, which tells us that they're not listening.

It's exactly what I've been talking about on this site for five years and generally nobody listens to me either, preferring to shift back to an imaginary point about "laws" or something, which are irrelevant to it. And that in turn tells me it's very uncomfortable to bring up, because it hits close to home, and that means it's an emotional investment, i.e. once again -- a fetish.

"For our purposes here "culture of death" and "gun culture" may be also interchageable, as the firearm is our obvious instrument of choice, whether it's direct in our hands or indirect watching it vicariously on a TV show or virtually handling it in a video game. It all begins with a compulsion to destroy..."

Tell me this: If the sole purpose of firearms are "destructive", why have shooting sports been included in the Summer Olympic games since 1896?

Why don't they use man-sized targets instead of the traditional round "bullseye" targets?

How many people have been shot at Olympic shooting events?

Is the purpose of Olympic shooting events closely tied to the "culture of death", or are they representative of killing?

 

[Mac1958]

Gov. Bevin explains that it isn't as simple as just blaming guns or gun culture.
But the gun violence we see reflects a broader cultural problem with disrespecting people and demeaning human values.



Do you agree, disagree, or think both arguments are right?
Does the gun violence we see come from
1. gun culture
2. social culture that demeans other people and doesn't value life and respect for others
3. both, the dangerous gun culture is a major part of the social cultural problems in #2
4. #2 made worse by people rejecting the gun culture that defends against #2

Excellent poll, thank you.

#3 seems pretty obvious. The gun supporters aren't going to give an inch, and neither are those who defend and enable a culture in decay.

Since laws are easier to change, my guess is that we'll see that first, and I'd be very surprised if we ever getting around to healing the culture.
.

 

[Brian Blackwell]

Dear Pogo and how much would this drug culture and drug war
change if the knowledge and process of healing addictions becomes the focus?
Instead of criminalizing drug use, the focus shifts to health and prevention of abuse?

Oh, you mean an actual solution, like of the moral, effective variety? That would require an earnest desire to solve the problem, which is unreasonable to presume considering the fact that lawmakers knew precisely what would happen with drug prohibition and did it anyway.

They had the example of alcohol prohibition just a few decades earlier, and saw how it created a violent black market, while not solving the problem of alcoholism at all. To suppose they thought for a moment that this would be any different is beyond the scope of human reason, which leaves us to assume they wanted the violence as a means to some other end.

Such is the nature of government in every regard. Rather than asking, “how can we solve the problem that people are crying out about?”, it’s “how can we use this to fleece them for more cash, and create more restrictive legislation?” I’m no mind reader; I’m just basing this on the outcome of nearly every government “solution” and the nature of ambitious people.

Hi Brian Blackwell
I mean medical cures to the causes of addictions,
as well as the causes of diseases that require medications and can lead to addictions.

If we treat these issues of drug addiction and abuse (and also criminal illness and disorders)
using a Medical Model, then the focus is on health care, diagnosis and prevention.

NOT on criminalization that gets into due process issues and what the govt can and cannot do.

Keep it as a matter of health care, and it's more individual choice of which we'd rather pay for.
Do we want to keep paying for dependence on drugs and prisons that keep people from working, or would we rather invest in cost effective solutions that actually cure the causes of ills?

Again the Christian methods of spiritual healing have been researched and used to cure all kinds of mental and physical illnesses, naturally and free, so applying that process would drastically reduce the taxes we waste on crime and prisons, when we could be saving more resources and more lives by focusing on medical and health care as the solution.

I believe criminal justice reform is the key for providing universal health care through educational programs that combine teaching and training with low cost public services.

Thanks for posting here in such depth and detail.
I kinda struck out with Pogo but if you speak the same language
we can still communicate even where I blew it somehow! Thank you and keep posting!

Much obliged for the kind words! Your ideas are lucid and progressive; just the sort of thing we would expect from an evolving people as they move toward a future of true cosmic integrity.

Unfortunately, I don’t share your optimism in regard to government solutions. I believe mankind is absolutely capable of the solutions you’re suggesting, but I also believe we are being actively held back by misanthropes of immense wealth and power to whom government is merely an accessible means of furthering their own selfish agendas.

You speak as though government is what it’s purported to be - a way for a population to organize society to the ultimate uplift of all - and that we can reform it to achieve our common goals. I believe it is nothing more than a con employed by an elite few to rob and dominate everybody else. I’m not saying it’s currently broken, or even mangled beyond repair; I’m saying it’s inherently immoral on a principle level, and of no value to people with an eye toward a better world.

Apart from that divergence, I believe we are of like mind

 

[usmbguest5318]

Gov. Bevin explains that it isn't as simple as just blaming guns or gun culture.
But the gun violence we see reflects a broader cultural problem with disrespecting people and demeaning human values.

I agree with that, but "reflections" and etiologies are not at all the same things.

• Reflection
• Etiology

Because reflections and etiologies are not the same, I cannot answer your poll question.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

A fine poll Emily, striking (and it's rare) at the real heart of the matter.

I voted #3, although I'm not sure how to read #4.

We live in a culture that celebrates death, literally. And the star player in that cultural paradigm is the Firearm, an instrument created for war, passed down to the streets as if we're each in an individual war that could erupt at any moment.

Any of us can turn on any television at any time of day or night and within a few minutes find some depiction of someone shooting somebody else, an event that happens extremely rarely in the course of an average person's life if it ever happens at all. That's a cultural fetish. And in this case an extremely destructive one.

This is all fueled by a perverted hypermasculinity cult that deems the solution to problems is to overpower them, destroy them, blow them up, or in the case of people, including oneself --- shoot them. The whole "might makes right" canard. That's why mass shooters, and gun violence in general, is virtually always committed by a male, the same source of War for much the same reasons.

Ultimately the despicable problem of rampant gun violence derives from a crisis of the Spirit. Until we turn around this perverse glorification of death and destruction and the blowing of each other up, it isn't going away.

We live in a culture that sanctions violence as a legitimate means of conflict resolution: from corporal punishment in our schools to capital punishment in our prisons, and our propensity for militarism and war when addressing conflicts abroad.

And at times that sanctioned violence manifests with an individual who believes he’s been wronged getting mad, getting a gun, and getting even.

 

[Leo123]

It ain't the weapons it's the a liberal-leftist, neo-Marxist culture that elevates single mothers and denigrates fathers as well as confuses children as to their born sexuality. We are raising a crop of dysfunctional human beings and it doesn't matter which weapon they choose to display their angry dysfunction. Blaming guns ignores the real, underlying problem and exposes the stupidity and limited intelligence of those who promote 'gun control.'

 

[Leo123]

A fine poll Emily, striking (and it's rare) at the real heart of the matter.

I voted #3, although I'm not sure how to read #4.

We live in a culture that celebrates death, literally. And the star player in that cultural paradigm is the Firearm, an instrument created for war, passed down to the streets as if we're each in an individual war that could erupt at any moment.

Any of us can turn on any television at any time of day or night and within a few minutes find some depiction of someone shooting somebody else, an event that happens extremely rarely in the course of an average person's life if it ever happens at all. That's a cultural fetish. And in this case an extremely destructive one.

This is all fueled by a perverted hypermasculinity cult that deems the solution to problems is to overpower them, destroy them, blow them up, or in the case of people, including oneself --- shoot them. The whole "might makes right" canard. That's why mass shooters, and gun violence in general, is virtually always committed by a male, the same source of War for much the same reasons.

Ultimately the despicable problem of rampant gun violence derives from a crisis of the Spirit. Until we turn around this perverse glorification of death and destruction and the blowing of each other up, it isn't going away.

We live in a culture that sanctions violence as a legitimate means of conflict resolution: from corporal punishment in our schools to capital punishment in our prisons, and our propensity for militarism and war when addressing conflicts abroad.

And at times that sanctioned violence manifests with an individual who believes he’s been wronged getting mad, getting a gun, and getting even.

We had just as much violence in the past yet, children were not killing children. It is the break-down of the traditional family-unit....See my prior post.

 

[JoeB131]

Gov. Bevin explains that it isn't as simple as just blaming guns or gun culture.
But the gun violence we see reflects a broader cultural problem with disrespecting people and demeaning human values.

And respecting CDZ rules.... Bovine Droppings.

Japan spends more per capita on video games than we do, and some of their games are insane compared to ours. They watch truly violent movies.

And they have 6 gun homicides a year compared to our 11,000.

We have more gun violence because we've gone from 50 million guns in private hands to 300 million, half of those in the hands of 3% of the population.