Gun free Britain? Murders going to hit 10 year high...

[2aguy]

Gun crime keeps going up in Britain..

British Politicians Declare War on Knives

The mayhem that's closed London's homicide gap with its trans-Atlantic rival appears to be largely the result of violent criminal gangs. Firearms are strictly restricted in the U.K., including a near-total ban on handguns. Nevertheless, "n the 12 months to October 2017, there were 2,500 offences involving guns: a 16 per cent increase on the previous year and a 44 per cent increase on 2014," the London Assembly's Police and Crime Committee noted in January. Criminals, it seems, are not averse to committing crimes—including the illegal acquisition of tools that help them commit more crimes.

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Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

 

[Pilot1]

We aren't talking successful women here...we are talking young, teenage girls with no education or job skills having babies without husbands and fathers in the home...... and that is driving the crime rate here and over seas.....

Agreed, but they need to get a path to success other than having six babies by five "Baby Daddies". This whole concept of it being OK to have kids out of wedlock with multiple fathers is damaging. Yes, the kids grow up in unstable homes where education isn't respected, then turn to gangs, and crime.

 

[idb]

If your reasoning about Britain being battered in two world wars (and now you throw in the Depression) causing crime rates to rise is true, then why has the US been so far ahead of them in this regard for so long?
Especially when, in your reasoning, they have been insulated from all this mayhem and living in a land of milk and honey.
Are you saying that Americans are just naturally bigger arseholes than the Brits?

Why do you hate Americans?

Our society didn't get hit with the destruction, we had a booming post War economy with stable families...it wasn't until the 1960s where we had the Great Society destroy those families...especially minority families in our democrat party controlled cities.... That is when single teenage girls could have children without fathers in the home.....and from the 1960s going forward you had the huge crime problem here.......Britain is just now starting that violence problem....

So....I think I might understand now.
Correct me if I've got it wrong.

In the UK, women who grew up during the World Wars and Depression are just starting to have children.
The children don't have fathers because all the men were killed in the War.
Also, they didn't have children before now because the place was a wreck...as well as all the men being dead.
The children are now out on a murderous rampage throughout the country.

It all makes perfect sense now.

No....moron. The British culture was still intact right after the war so they still had family structures in place..... then they started their social welfare state which allowed young girls to have children without husbands and fathers...

So where did the issue with all the men being killed come into it...I'm sure you brought that into your well-reasoned argument earlier on.

You had large numbers of young males killed in the wars....it slows down the growth of a society....both economically and culturally which is why Europe lagged behind the U.S....

And prevents crime obviously.
Now there are more males around there is more crime...I follow you now.

 

[idb]

key word '''DEBATING'' --that means you have no stats/proof/etc
the cities have the same diversity/etc
in fact, LA, CHi and NYC have much denser populations!!!

NYC had Guilliani....Chicago and St. Louis are letting violent criminals back on their streets....over and over again...

This is Chicago's problem...

A Detailed Look At Last Weekend's Chicago Gang Violence Shooting Victims - The Truth About Guns

Behind the scenes, Chicago Police put out a “Detailed Situational Report” (DSR) each weekday. On it, their “Data Warehouse” lists shooting incidents and murders along with guns recovered.
Inside, the report details the names and descriptions of each of the victims and suspects, including any gang affiliations and the location of each incident. Furthermore, it shows each person’s criminal history, a description of their injuries and their Strategic Subject List score. Lastly, it contains a narrative of what happened.
Because it’s Chicago — where support from “the community” typically hovers near zero — police seldom identify any suspects, much less make arrests. In fact, CPD has made arrests in only 13% of homicides so far in 2018.
A casual glance through the confidential DSR reveals that virtually every victim of Chicago violence last weekend had gang ties. Either as a member of a gang or those (often young females) who hang out with gang members. The other glaring common thread: the victims themselves usually have criminal histories, too.
In fact, poring over the fifteen pages of incidents (pasted end to end, that’s over 10 feet of incidents), only 21 of the 78 victims did not have a criminal history. Meanwhile, those with arrest records garnered a total of 813 arrests between them.
Eight hundred thirteen arrests.
At the same time, Cook County’s infamous “catch and release” criminal justice system only managed to gain convictions in 120 of those 813 arrests.
For example, one 23-year-old Black P. Stone gang member who was shot in the gut had 35 arrests and zero convictions. One perforated 66-year-old had 55 arrests!
Another 32-year-old Four Corner Hustlers member, Charles Green, had 62 arrests, but he won’t re-offend. Not after he suffered multiple gunshot wounds that proved fatal. Green’s colorful past included arrests for dope, more dope, armed robbery, and a murder for which Cook County prosecutor Kim Foxx released him without charges.
Tip for the day, besides avoiding Chicago: mommas, don’t let your girls hang out with gang members. Otherwise, they can find themselves caught in the crossfire, and they don’t always survive.
Three young adult women without any criminal history or gang affiliations suffered gunshot wounds in a single incident at 1338 S. Millard Ave. Two offenders began shooting into “a large street gathering” wounding a total of seven. Tragically, a 17-year-old girl named Jahnae Patterson died there from a wound to her face.
--------------
Meanwhile, another victim at that same location, aged 14, remains in good condition. How terrible, you say? That same 14-year-old named Marion already has two arrests for car burglaries and a Strategic Subject List (SSL) score of 385. The SSL score serves to indicate potential future criminal behavior. As defined by the City of Chicago:

Another case caught my eye. The victim, Miguel, a 19-year-old Hispanic male, told police he saw some people who recognized him emerge from a convenience store. For some unknown reason (he says) they began chasing him in the 3900 block of S. Rockwell. In the alley behind the store, he heard gunshots and felt pain.

Before you start oozing sympathy for this poor teen, know that CPD says Miguel also moonlights as a Satan Disciples gang member and has built his SSL score to 500. With a SSL score that high, Darwin will probably catch up with him soon enough, assuming he survives this hospital visit.

--------

Baltimore...

2017 homicide data provide insight into Baltimore's gun wars, police say



About 86 percent of the victims and 85 percent of the 118 suspects identified by police had prior criminal records. And about 46 percent of victims and 44 percent of suspects had previously been arrested for gun crimes, the data show.
----
The average homicide victim in Baltimore in 2017 had 11 previous arrests on his record. About 73 percent had drug arrests, and nearly 50 percent had been arrested for a violent crime. About 30 percent were on parole or probation at the time they were killed, and more than 6 percent were on parole or probation for a gun crime.

Twenty percent of the victims were known members of a gang or drug crew, according to the data.

The average homicide suspect, meanwhile, had 9 previous arrests on his record. About 70 percent had drug arrests, and nearly half had been arrested for a violent crime. Nearly 36 percent were on parole or probation, and 6 percent were on parole or probation for a gun crime, the data show.

Eighteen percent of the suspects were known members of a gang or drug crew, according to the data.

Police did not know the motive behind nearly half of the killings, but at least 20 were related to retaliation, according to the data.


=============

Chicago..


Actual report on shootings in chicago...http://urbanlabs.uchicago.edu/attachments/store/2435a5d4658e2ca19f4f225b810ce0dbdb9231cbdb8d702e784087469ee3/UChicagoCrimeLab+Gun+Violence+in+Chicago+2016.pdf


1/19/17 Shooters in Chicago criminal record research from U of C






Nearly 40 percent of victims had more than 10 prior arrests, while the share with more than 20 prior arrests rose from 14 to 18 percent in 2016.

The share of victims with a current or prior gang affiliation as recorded by CPD was about the same in both years (53 and 54 percent).

And now the shooters . . .

Individuals arrested for a homicide or shooting in Chicago in 2016 and 2015 had similar prior criminal records: around 90 percent had at least one prior arrest, approximately 50 percent had a prior arrest for a violent crime specifically, and almost 40 percent had a prior gun arrest.



The average person arrested for a homicide or shooting in both years had nearly 12 prior arrests, with almost 45 percent having had more than 10 prior arrests, and almost 20 percent having had more than 20 prior arrests.

Why is anyone in Chicago (or elsewhere) talking about gun control? Clearly, Chicago’s revolving door justice system is a failure that allows dangerous killers to roam the city streets.
============================


12/27/16 Gang shootings in Chicago over christmas..90% gang affiliated


Gang Killers In Chicago Used Christmas Gatherings To Target Their Victims

Gang killers, knowing their targets would be home for Christmas, launched a bloody weekend of shootings in Chicago that left 11 dead and another 37 wounded.

"We now know that the majority of these shootings and homicides were targeted attacks by gangs against potential rivals who were at holiday gatherings. This was followed by several acts of retaliatory gun violence," police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said in a statement Monday.

--------------

The violence primarily occurred in areas with historical gang conflicts on the South and West Side of Chicago."


And this is what we keep telling you anti gunners and you refuse to believe it....

"Ninety percent of those fatally wounded had gang affiliations, criminal histories and were pre-identified by the department's strategic subject algorithm as being a potential suspect or victim of gun violence," Guglielmi said.
==

again, you make no sense
STL is rated in the top 10 most dangerous cities--sometimes 1
Chi, NYC and LA not even in top ten
you have no argument there
explain this to me

Yes....I showed you why, they let violent gun criminals out on bail and out of jail, over and over again so they won't be perceived as racists...dittos Chicago.....

Baltimore has the same extreme gun control as Chicago and New York, and a tiny population......and higher gun murder numbers than New York or L.A.....

New York had the police techniques of Rudy Guilliani and his police Comissioner that they are still using...Chicago is not.....Baltimore is not, D.C. is not...

Germany ,France, and England = lower murder rates with very strict gun control
NYCity 8.6 MILLION people

.....final--you need to attack the problem with MULTIPLE ways--and gun control MUST be one of those

Europe was always less violent than the U.S......and after Britain banned and confiscated guns they have more gun crime not less....and violence across Europe and Britain is growing, not going down.

You need to explain how gun murder went down 49%, gun crime went down 75%, and violent crime went down 72% as more Americans started to own and actually carry guns...and you can't....

And Chicago and Baltimore have extreme gun control and have more gun murder than New York..the difference? New York had Rudy Guilliani and his police commissioner, and they are continuing to use their tactics to combat crime while Baltimore and Chicago let violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail over and over again. I have shown you the revolving door policy for violent gun offenders in Chicago, it is also happening in Baltimore and St. Louis....

Criminal control is the issue, not gun control. Do you really think that law abiding gun owners are doing the gun murder in these cities? It is the repeat gun offenders who are allowed to go back into these democrat party controlled inner cities that rack up the body counts...not John and Jane Q. Citizen carrying guns for self defense.

Fewer Americans own guns now.
You must know this...you have so many statistics to hand.
It's just that gun owners own more guns each.

 

[idb]

Handguns are banned in the U.K

UK Legal Weapons and Firearms Law 2018

I went through this with him about Australia.
He still insists guns are banned there despite me quoting the law at him.
Fingers in the ears and "lalalalalala"

 

[frigidweirdo]

There are signifcant numbers of single families in France . Germany and the UK. And yet our gun crime is a fraction of the US. What is the difference ? We have gun laws which restrict access to killing machines. Its not complicated mate.

Moron...... those countries are becoming more and more violent.....I have pointed out that they are behind because of the destruction of the 2 world wars....it took the social welfare state to destroy the families in those countries...and as I showed Frigidweirdo, single teenage girls raising young males drives the crime rate, not guns.

You havent proved anything. Europe and the US have similar levels of single parents, maybe a bit lower, but the US death rate is 4 times higher than any country in western europe. There is no link.

Hmmmm. What could be the difference ?

BTW its not unmarried parents driving the crime rate it is primarily poverty. But lets leave that complicated issue for adults to discuss.

Poverty is created and perpetuated by single teenage mother led homes.....

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-most-criminals-came-from-single-mother-households

Studies of children from single-parent families have shown that
most criminals come from single mothers

1. They are more likely to become drug/alcohol/chemical abusers, and indulge in anti-social behavior
2. More likely to become criminals
3. More likely to be truants, runaways, and drop-outs
4. More likely to suffer from mental and physical illness
5. More likely to suffer from Physical, Sexual, Emotional abuse, and Neglect. These are the main forms of abuse. They are listed in Child Abuse registers
6. Over 90% of single-parents are mothers. A significant number of those mothers come from single-parent families
7. It is common that a single-mother will have children by more than one partner
8. The majority of child murders are carried out by women, and more mothers than fathers kill their own children
9. The mothers that kill their own children are most commonly ill or depressed
10. The fathers that kill their own children are most commonly denied access to their children
11. Children that come from fatherless families are more likely to join gangs
    Young people who join gangs are more likely to become criminals, and more likely to suffer from crime
12. Divorce and separation is on the rise, and in the West there are now more couples cohabiting than there are married couples
13. For those that get married, there is a 60% chance they will get divorced, and that in 8 out of 10 divorces are initiated by women
14. The rise in single-mother families is attributed to several factors that include women gaining more independence; having more ways to have children without men; having better financial support from the State; having more privileges under law; and men having a greater chance of losing their job
15. There is also the underlying problems that lower schools are now almost totally operated by women teachers, and virtually all forms of childcare, family charities, and Media coverage on Families is run by women
16. Further to that, Men are more commonly opting out of marriage or commitments due the social changes that no longer offer advantages in such arrangements
17. The rise of fatherless families has been studied in relation to discipline in school, and a rapid rise in teachers abandoning teaching as a profession
18. The rise in Child custody cases is now the highest it has ever been, and almost every case relates to fathers being denied access to their children. It is now common for Family court appeals to run into dozens of appeals (one case went back to court 106 times)

It must be clear that there is not a conspiracy among women to become single mothers. Most women put their children’s interests first, and many women will put up with a bad marriage for the sake of the children

Oh my fucking word. You're not even sourcing a website. You're sourcing google search and Quora.

Fucking pathetic.

And single parent homes are one of the clues to mass shooters...

Of 27 Deadliest Mass Shooters, 26 of Them Were Fatherless | RealClearPolitics

I'm not disagreeing with you that this isn't a problem.

I'm saying it's not the only problem.

There are fatherless kids in the UK and the US.

Now, single parent households were LOWER in the US in the 1980s, and yet murders were HIGHER than in 2005.

And yet your claim is the more single parent families, the worse the crime.

Clearly that's not true.

Clearly there are lots of factors at play, and guns are one of those, seeing how the murder rate and crime rate in the UK is much lower than the number of single parent families would suggest, on your part.

 

[frigidweirdo]

You havent proved anything. Europe and the US have similar levels of single parents, maybe a bit lower, but the US death rate is 4 times higher than any country in western europe. There is no link.

Hmmmm. What could be the difference ?

BTW its not unmarried parents driving the crime rate it is primarily poverty. But lets leave that complicated issue for adults to discuss.

Poverty is created and perpetuated by single teenage mother led homes.....

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-most-criminals-came-from-single-mother-households

Studies of children from single-parent families have shown that
most criminals come from single mothers

1. They are more likely to become drug/alcohol/chemical abusers, and indulge in anti-social behavior
2. More likely to become criminals
3. More likely to be truants, runaways, and drop-outs
4. More likely to suffer from mental and physical illness
5. More likely to suffer from Physical, Sexual, Emotional abuse, and Neglect. These are the main forms of abuse. They are listed in Child Abuse registers
6. Over 90% of single-parents are mothers. A significant number of those mothers come from single-parent families
7. It is common that a single-mother will have children by more than one partner
8. The majority of child murders are carried out by women, and more mothers than fathers kill their own children
9. The mothers that kill their own children are most commonly ill or depressed
10. The fathers that kill their own children are most commonly denied access to their children
11. Children that come from fatherless families are more likely to join gangs
    Young people who join gangs are more likely to become criminals, and more likely to suffer from crime
12. Divorce and separation is on the rise, and in the West there are now more couples cohabiting than there are married couples
13. For those that get married, there is a 60% chance they will get divorced, and that in 8 out of 10 divorces are initiated by women
14. The rise in single-mother families is attributed to several factors that include women gaining more independence; having more ways to have children without men; having better financial support from the State; having more privileges under law; and men having a greater chance of losing their job
15. There is also the underlying problems that lower schools are now almost totally operated by women teachers, and virtually all forms of childcare, family charities, and Media coverage on Families is run by women
16. Further to that, Men are more commonly opting out of marriage or commitments due the social changes that no longer offer advantages in such arrangements
17. The rise of fatherless families has been studied in relation to discipline in school, and a rapid rise in teachers abandoning teaching as a profession
18. The rise in Child custody cases is now the highest it has ever been, and almost every case relates to fathers being denied access to their children. It is now common for Family court appeals to run into dozens of appeals (one case went back to court 106 times)

It must be clear that there is not a conspiracy among women to become single mothers. Most women put their children’s interests first, and many women will put up with a bad marriage for the sake of the children

Oh my fucking word. You're not even sourcing a website. You're sourcing google search and Quora.

Fucking pathetic.

And single parent homes are one of the clues to mass shooters...

Of 27 Deadliest Mass Shooters, 26 of Them Were Fatherless | RealClearPolitics

And 100% of mass shooters had...................guns.

And 1.1 million Americans each year have guns....that they use to stop rape, robbery and murder compared to the few mass shooters in this country....guns save more lives than mass shooters take.... if it saves one life......

But there's more crime they have to stop.

 

[JoeB131]

Yep....young males, raised without fathers to teach them to be adult men, mixed with 3rd world males running the drug gangs, and the British police hamstrung due to lack of manpower, money, and politically correct rules of engagment.....

London with a population of 9 million has had 121 murders.

Chicago with a population of 3 million has had 486 homicides...

Looks like Gun Control works just fine to me.

 

[Skull Pilot]

FOUR times lower than the US

And NH has a murder rate 4 times lower than CA despite CA having the harshest gun laws in the country

 

[Skull Pilot]

You think that criminals are not getting more guns now? Your post has no bearing on the fact that Britain's criminals are getting more guns... you only focus on gun murder since that hasn't changed in Britain, except for the massive spike immediately after they banned guns.

You want to show that criminals are getting more guns now. Then prove it. Until then I call bullshit on your fake crap.

Here......a history of increasing gun crime in Britain after they banned guns...

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .


========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Guns arent banned in the UK. But gun ownership is limited. Thats why our death rates are a fraction of yours. You have lost this argument so many times its laughable.

No....you are wrong....gun ownership is limited for law abiding citizens...the ones who weren't using them for crime in the first place...but among criminals, gun crime is up 42% in London and up 23% across England and Wales...they obviously didn't get the message that guns are limited.

Guns are limited, "law abiding people" can have guns too.

Crime is up. You've been told why crime is up, because of the right wing government in power.

But crime is up, and still MASSIVELY LOWER THAN IN THE USA.

Countries Compared by Crime > Total crimes per 1000. International Statistics at NationMaster.com

Crimes per 1000

UK 110
US 41

Who has more crime per capita?

 

[Skull Pilot]

answer the question:
why is UK's murder rate 4 times lower?
or France's/Germany's?

Tell me why NH has a murder rate more than 4 times lower than CA despite CA having the harshest gun laws in the country

 

[JoeB131]

Crimes per 1000

UK 110
US 41

Who has more crime per capita?

"Crimes" is a very nebulous definition. Our police are so busy with murders they don't have time to break up bar fights.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Crimes per 1000

UK 110
US 41

Who has more crime per capita?

"Crimes" is a very nebulous definition. Our police are so busy with murders they don't have time to break up bar fights.

The UK has twice as many rape and assault victims per 1000 as the US.

 

[cnm]

Handguns are banned in the U.K

UK Legal Weapons and Firearms Law 2018

I went through this with him about Australia.
He still insists guns are banned there despite me quoting the law at him.
Fingers in the ears and "lalalalalala"

Loonies will loon.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Crimes per 1000

UK 110
US 41

Who has more crime per capita?

"Crimes" is a very nebulous definition. Our police are so busy with murders they don't have time to break up bar fights.

The UK has twice as many rape and assault victims as the US.

No, it doesn't.

The US has a very strict definition of things like this. Whereas the UK has a much lower threshold.

The UK has a HIGHER rape and assault statistics rate. But not necessarily more victims.

 

[cnm]

The UK has twice as many rape and assault victims as the US.

Possibly it has twice as many victims who report the crimes to police.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Crimes per 1000

UK 110
US 41

Who has more crime per capita?

"Crimes" is a very nebulous definition. Our police are so busy with murders they don't have time to break up bar fights.

The UK has twice as many rape and assault victims as the US.

No, it doesn't.

The US has a very strict definition of things like this. Whereas the UK has a much lower threshold.

The UK has a HIGHER rape and assault statistics rate. But not necessarily more victims.

Wow another imbecile who doesn't understand ratios

You do realize that a large country with a large population can have a lower CRIME RATE and still have more victims than a small country with a small population with a high crime rate don't you

You are TWICE AS LIKELY to be raped or assaulted in the UK than the US

 

[Skull Pilot]

The UK has twice as many rape and assault victims as the US.

Possibly it has twice as many victims who report the crimes to police.

Speculation therefore irrelevant

 

[Pilot1]

We have a societal violence problem in the U.S. almost solely localized to inner city Black, on Black violence. The problem is elements of the Black Community being SO DESPERATE they resort to violence to settle disputes needs to be addressed by city leadership which is 100% DEMOCRAT.

 

[Vagabond63]

…guess what the first thing those 7 million men wanted to do when they got home to their wives and girlfriends? I'll tell you, start families!

You have no idea what the War, followed by the Depression did to those countries.....followed by World War 2.....

Oh, so I have no idea? Really?

The desire to return to “normal” was reflected not only in a postwar upsurge in marriages, births and the reconstitution of conventional family life…

Your own source agrees with me, thanks for highlighting it in bold blue font.

Oh by the way the UK military deaths total for WW2 = 383,700 (less than in WW1). Guess what the survivors wanted to do when they were demobilised? Baby boom anyone?