Gun free Britain? Murders going to hit 10 year high...

[2aguy]

No...moron, that isn't what I said... I said the destruction and death of the Two World Wars, and now that I think of it, the Depression, slowed down their society advancing the way the U.S. did.... So, moron, you have the death and destruction of World War 1, and it's aftermath, the Depression, and then World War 2.....major, catastrophic events....... and they slowed down those societies in Europe...... now you have the social welfare states wrecking the family structures in those countries, allowing young teenage girls to have children without husbands, and fathers for those children, so the young males have no one to raise them into young men.... And you are now seeing the effects of that in the increasing violence in those societies, especially Britain.....

Fascinating. How has the US managed to avoid the single mother problem ?

We haven't, you moron, which is why we have full prisons, and in our democrat party cities we have high gun murder rates.....that is what I keep telling you.......

So, the UK has an increase in violent crime in the 2000s because of the impact of WW1 and WW2. Yet the US which avoided a lot of that suffering on the home front has a much higher murder rate.

What are you fucking talking about?

It has to do with the destruction of the family.....single teenage girls raising young males..... we reached that point earlier...in the 1960s, because we didn't get set back by World War 2....they fell behind, and now are catching up, their social welfare programs have finally reached the point where they have destroyed their families...

Well, WW1 and WW2 had nothing to do with the destruction of the families in the UK.

Maggie "the bitch" Thatcher had A LOT TO DO with the destruction of the family.

How Britain changed under Margaret Thatcher. In 15 charts

"
Families
Ironically for a prime minister who focussed so much on family life, the 1980s saw the end of the traditional family unit for many. Divorce rates reached 13.4 per 1,000 married population in 1985, although that wasn't as high as the peak of 1994 after the recession."

Ah, Thatcher came in in 1979 and left in 1990 and the divorce rate rose during her time and after.

She got rid of things like council houses which allowed people to have a home, which helps when you want to keep a family.

Shotton, 1984: How Thatcher destroyed our town

She destroyed communities and didn't bother to try and help them.

Viewpoints: How did Thatcher change UK?

"The problem was that the Thatcher government did not care about those who lost out as a result of it and did not do enough to replenish the housing stock that had been sold off."

So, Thatcher was the problem, not wars that happened half a century or more before. Major didn't help either. The Tories like to destroy things that keep things good.

Who needs the police? The rich can pay for private security.
Who needs education? The rich can pay for private education.
Who needs health care? The rich can pay for private health care.

See the problem?

The problem is the welfare state. When single girls can have children without fathers and husbands, you get more violent crime as their daughters also have children without fathers....

 

[harmonica]

answer the question:
why is UK's murder rate 4 times lower?
or France's/Germany's?

I answer that all the time.....World War 1 and 2 destroyed those countries, and drained millions of young men from their countries...... They are behind the United States in every way until now...they are catching up to the destruction of the family...which is creating violent sociopaths.

Their criminals do not use their illegal guns to murder as often or as easily as American criminals....due to cultural factors, not gun control.

What part of the fact that gun crime is going up in Britain is beyond you to understand....? They are getting illegal guns in larger numbers...they need them, especially their 3rd world drug gangs, to control their drug territories....they just do not use them to murder...as I highlight in most of these posts...they shoot the legs, not to the chest or the head when they shoot...a cultural difference and even that is changing....

Read the book, "Life at the Bottom," because it shows how their welfare system and bureaucratic mess is creating the exact same situation you see in our violent, democrat controlled cities....and they are just getting there...while we were there back in the 1960s, since our country was untouched by the destruction of World war 1 and 2....

ok--and I've stated this before--if it's a difference of UK vs American culture and not gun control, explain this:
==very pro-gun/lax gun control St Louis:--population 320,000... murders -199
==very gun controlled NYC population 8.6 MILLION... murders-300 !!!!!!!!!!!!

very gun controlled Chicago and LA lower murder rates than very pro-gun STL

SAME country!!!!! SAME cultures

St. Louis homicide statistics for 2017
2017 was record-low for homicides in New York City, with NYPD logging lowest number in nearly 70 years - NY Daily News

Wrong....St. Louis, like chicago, lets violent gun criminals out of prison....you have been shown this over and over againg...in all the cities where gun crime is through the roof you have democrat policies allowing criminals out of prison....New York had Guilliani, who locked them up and his police policies are still in place...

It isn't normal, law abiding gun owners committing the crime....... when you keep letting the violent criminals out on bail, and out of jail, you get more gun murder...

You have missed the truth about this issue.

Mayor of St. Louis - Wikipedia


Rise in Murders Has St. Louis Debating Why

Jennifer M. Joyce, the city’s circuit attorney, or prosecutor, an elected position, complains that in St. Louis, the illegal possession of a gun is too often “a crime without a consequence,” making it difficult to stop confrontation from turning lethal.

At the same time, deeper social roots of violence such as addiction and unemployment continue unchecked. And city officials also cite what they call a “Ferguson effect,” an increase in crime last year as police officers were diverted to control protests after a white officer shot and killed Michael Brown, an unarmed black teenager in the nearby suburb on Aug. 9.

-----------

Now, an overstretched department is forced to pick one neighborhood at a time to flood with officers. Last month, Chief Dotson even asked the state highway patrol if it could lend a dozen men to help watch downtown streets; the agency declined.
----
When the police discover a gun in a car with several passengers, including some with felony records, but no one admits to owning the gun, criminal charges are often impossible, Mr. Rosenfeld said.

In addition, according to a 2014 study by Mr. Rosenfeld and his colleagues, a majority of those who are convicted of illegally possessing a gun but not caught using it in a crime receive probation rather than jail time. Gun laws and enforcement are stiffer in many other cities.

Violence down in St. Louis but homicides hold steady. Are tougher penalties for gun crimes the answer?
But many challenges remain, official said. The department is still down more than 130 officers. Witnesses to crimes remain reluctant to come forward for fear of retaliation, making it difficult to close cases. And a lack of state laws to deter gun crimes has forced the police to turn to federal courts to indict some suspects.

On Tuesday, Edwards made a new pitch: He wants to see the mandatory minimum sentence for armed criminal action raised from its current ceiling of three years to at least 15 years for nonfatal shootings, and 25 years for fatal shootings.

--------

D.C.

DC Won’t Allow Concealed Carry, But Takes It Easy On Armed, Violent Criminals

The problems stem from the city’s Youth Rehabilitation Act, legislation implemented in the 1980s to provide leniency to criminal offenders under the age of 22, even violent ones, with murder convictions being the only exception. It allows judges to disregard mandatory minimums meant to dissuade criminals, often to disastrous effects. The homicide rate spiked by 54 percent in the District in 2015, and 22 of the murderers were previously sentenced for crimes under the Youth Rehabilitation Act, according to an investigation by The Washington Post.

A man released on probation in 2015 under the law was involved in the July shooting death of Deeniquia Dodds, a transgender man. Just over 120 people previously sentenced under the Youth Rehabilitation Act have subsequently been convicted of murder since 2010.

“I knew they were going to let me off easy,” Tavon Pinkney, an 18-year old convicted of homicide in 2015, told The Washington Post regarding his previous sentencing under the youth law. “Nothing changed … They just gave me the Youth Act and let me go right back out there. They ain’t really care.”

key word '''DEBATING'' --that means you have no stats/proof/etc
the cities have the same diversity/etc
in fact, LA, CHi and NYC have much denser populations!!!

NYC had Guilliani....Chicago and St. Louis are letting violent criminals back on their streets....over and over again...

This is Chicago's problem...

A Detailed Look At Last Weekend's Chicago Gang Violence Shooting Victims - The Truth About Guns

Behind the scenes, Chicago Police put out a “Detailed Situational Report” (DSR) each weekday. On it, their “Data Warehouse” lists shooting incidents and murders along with guns recovered.
Inside, the report details the names and descriptions of each of the victims and suspects, including any gang affiliations and the location of each incident. Furthermore, it shows each person’s criminal history, a description of their injuries and their Strategic Subject List score. Lastly, it contains a narrative of what happened.
Because it’s Chicago — where support from “the community” typically hovers near zero — police seldom identify any suspects, much less make arrests. In fact, CPD has made arrests in only 13% of homicides so far in 2018.
A casual glance through the confidential DSR reveals that virtually every victim of Chicago violence last weekend had gang ties. Either as a member of a gang or those (often young females) who hang out with gang members. The other glaring common thread: the victims themselves usually have criminal histories, too.
In fact, poring over the fifteen pages of incidents (pasted end to end, that’s over 10 feet of incidents), only 21 of the 78 victims did not have a criminal history. Meanwhile, those with arrest records garnered a total of 813 arrests between them.
Eight hundred thirteen arrests.
At the same time, Cook County’s infamous “catch and release” criminal justice system only managed to gain convictions in 120 of those 813 arrests.
For example, one 23-year-old Black P. Stone gang member who was shot in the gut had 35 arrests and zero convictions. One perforated 66-year-old had 55 arrests!
Another 32-year-old Four Corner Hustlers member, Charles Green, had 62 arrests, but he won’t re-offend. Not after he suffered multiple gunshot wounds that proved fatal. Green’s colorful past included arrests for dope, more dope, armed robbery, and a murder for which Cook County prosecutor Kim Foxx released him without charges.
Tip for the day, besides avoiding Chicago: mommas, don’t let your girls hang out with gang members. Otherwise, they can find themselves caught in the crossfire, and they don’t always survive.
Three young adult women without any criminal history or gang affiliations suffered gunshot wounds in a single incident at 1338 S. Millard Ave. Two offenders began shooting into “a large street gathering” wounding a total of seven. Tragically, a 17-year-old girl named Jahnae Patterson died there from a wound to her face.
--------------
Meanwhile, another victim at that same location, aged 14, remains in good condition. How terrible, you say? That same 14-year-old named Marion already has two arrests for car burglaries and a Strategic Subject List (SSL) score of 385. The SSL score serves to indicate potential future criminal behavior. As defined by the City of Chicago:

Another case caught my eye. The victim, Miguel, a 19-year-old Hispanic male, told police he saw some people who recognized him emerge from a convenience store. For some unknown reason (he says) they began chasing him in the 3900 block of S. Rockwell. In the alley behind the store, he heard gunshots and felt pain.

Before you start oozing sympathy for this poor teen, know that CPD says Miguel also moonlights as a Satan Disciples gang member and has built his SSL score to 500. With a SSL score that high, Darwin will probably catch up with him soon enough, assuming he survives this hospital visit.

--------

Baltimore...

2017 homicide data provide insight into Baltimore's gun wars, police say



About 86 percent of the victims and 85 percent of the 118 suspects identified by police had prior criminal records. And about 46 percent of victims and 44 percent of suspects had previously been arrested for gun crimes, the data show.
----
The average homicide victim in Baltimore in 2017 had 11 previous arrests on his record. About 73 percent had drug arrests, and nearly 50 percent had been arrested for a violent crime. About 30 percent were on parole or probation at the time they were killed, and more than 6 percent were on parole or probation for a gun crime.

Twenty percent of the victims were known members of a gang or drug crew, according to the data.

The average homicide suspect, meanwhile, had 9 previous arrests on his record. About 70 percent had drug arrests, and nearly half had been arrested for a violent crime. Nearly 36 percent were on parole or probation, and 6 percent were on parole or probation for a gun crime, the data show.

Eighteen percent of the suspects were known members of a gang or drug crew, according to the data.

Police did not know the motive behind nearly half of the killings, but at least 20 were related to retaliation, according to the data.


=============

Chicago..


Actual report on shootings in chicago...http://urbanlabs.uchicago.edu/attachments/store/2435a5d4658e2ca19f4f225b810ce0dbdb9231cbdb8d702e784087469ee3/UChicagoCrimeLab+Gun+Violence+in+Chicago+2016.pdf


1/19/17 Shooters in Chicago criminal record research from U of C






Nearly 40 percent of victims had more than 10 prior arrests, while the share with more than 20 prior arrests rose from 14 to 18 percent in 2016.

The share of victims with a current or prior gang affiliation as recorded by CPD was about the same in both years (53 and 54 percent).

And now the shooters . . .

Individuals arrested for a homicide or shooting in Chicago in 2016 and 2015 had similar prior criminal records: around 90 percent had at least one prior arrest, approximately 50 percent had a prior arrest for a violent crime specifically, and almost 40 percent had a prior gun arrest.



The average person arrested for a homicide or shooting in both years had nearly 12 prior arrests, with almost 45 percent having had more than 10 prior arrests, and almost 20 percent having had more than 20 prior arrests.

Why is anyone in Chicago (or elsewhere) talking about gun control? Clearly, Chicago’s revolving door justice system is a failure that allows dangerous killers to roam the city streets.
============================


12/27/16 Gang shootings in Chicago over christmas..90% gang affiliated


Gang Killers In Chicago Used Christmas Gatherings To Target Their Victims

Gang killers, knowing their targets would be home for Christmas, launched a bloody weekend of shootings in Chicago that left 11 dead and another 37 wounded.

"We now know that the majority of these shootings and homicides were targeted attacks by gangs against potential rivals who were at holiday gatherings. This was followed by several acts of retaliatory gun violence," police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said in a statement Monday.

--------------

The violence primarily occurred in areas with historical gang conflicts on the South and West Side of Chicago."


And this is what we keep telling you anti gunners and you refuse to believe it....

"Ninety percent of those fatally wounded had gang affiliations, criminal histories and were pre-identified by the department's strategic subject algorithm as being a potential suspect or victim of gun violence," Guglielmi said.
==

again, you make no sense
STL is rated in the top 10 most dangerous cities--sometimes 1
Chi, NYC and LA not even in top ten
you have no argument there
explain this to me

 

[2aguy]

I answer that all the time.....World War 1 and 2 destroyed those countries, and drained millions of young men from their countries...... They are behind the United States in every way until now...they are catching up to the destruction of the family...which is creating violent sociopaths.

Their criminals do not use their illegal guns to murder as often or as easily as American criminals....due to cultural factors, not gun control.

What part of the fact that gun crime is going up in Britain is beyond you to understand....? They are getting illegal guns in larger numbers...they need them, especially their 3rd world drug gangs, to control their drug territories....they just do not use them to murder...as I highlight in most of these posts...they shoot the legs, not to the chest or the head when they shoot...a cultural difference and even that is changing....

Read the book, "Life at the Bottom," because it shows how their welfare system and bureaucratic mess is creating the exact same situation you see in our violent, democrat controlled cities....and they are just getting there...while we were there back in the 1960s, since our country was untouched by the destruction of World war 1 and 2....

ok--and I've stated this before--if it's a difference of UK vs American culture and not gun control, explain this:
==very pro-gun/lax gun control St Louis:--population 320,000... murders -199
==very gun controlled NYC population 8.6 MILLION... murders-300 !!!!!!!!!!!!

very gun controlled Chicago and LA lower murder rates than very pro-gun STL

SAME country!!!!! SAME cultures

St. Louis homicide statistics for 2017
2017 was record-low for homicides in New York City, with NYPD logging lowest number in nearly 70 years - NY Daily News

Wrong....St. Louis, like chicago, lets violent gun criminals out of prison....you have been shown this over and over againg...in all the cities where gun crime is through the roof you have democrat policies allowing criminals out of prison....New York had Guilliani, who locked them up and his police policies are still in place...

It isn't normal, law abiding gun owners committing the crime....... when you keep letting the violent criminals out on bail, and out of jail, you get more gun murder...

You have missed the truth about this issue.

Mayor of St. Louis - Wikipedia


Rise in Murders Has St. Louis Debating Why

Jennifer M. Joyce, the city’s circuit attorney, or prosecutor, an elected position, complains that in St. Louis, the illegal possession of a gun is too often “a crime without a consequence,” making it difficult to stop confrontation from turning lethal.

At the same time, deeper social roots of violence such as addiction and unemployment continue unchecked. And city officials also cite what they call a “Ferguson effect,” an increase in crime last year as police officers were diverted to control protests after a white officer shot and killed Michael Brown, an unarmed black teenager in the nearby suburb on Aug. 9.

-----------

Now, an overstretched department is forced to pick one neighborhood at a time to flood with officers. Last month, Chief Dotson even asked the state highway patrol if it could lend a dozen men to help watch downtown streets; the agency declined.
----
When the police discover a gun in a car with several passengers, including some with felony records, but no one admits to owning the gun, criminal charges are often impossible, Mr. Rosenfeld said.

In addition, according to a 2014 study by Mr. Rosenfeld and his colleagues, a majority of those who are convicted of illegally possessing a gun but not caught using it in a crime receive probation rather than jail time. Gun laws and enforcement are stiffer in many other cities.

Violence down in St. Louis but homicides hold steady. Are tougher penalties for gun crimes the answer?
But many challenges remain, official said. The department is still down more than 130 officers. Witnesses to crimes remain reluctant to come forward for fear of retaliation, making it difficult to close cases. And a lack of state laws to deter gun crimes has forced the police to turn to federal courts to indict some suspects.

On Tuesday, Edwards made a new pitch: He wants to see the mandatory minimum sentence for armed criminal action raised from its current ceiling of three years to at least 15 years for nonfatal shootings, and 25 years for fatal shootings.

--------

D.C.

DC Won’t Allow Concealed Carry, But Takes It Easy On Armed, Violent Criminals

The problems stem from the city’s Youth Rehabilitation Act, legislation implemented in the 1980s to provide leniency to criminal offenders under the age of 22, even violent ones, with murder convictions being the only exception. It allows judges to disregard mandatory minimums meant to dissuade criminals, often to disastrous effects. The homicide rate spiked by 54 percent in the District in 2015, and 22 of the murderers were previously sentenced for crimes under the Youth Rehabilitation Act, according to an investigation by The Washington Post.

A man released on probation in 2015 under the law was involved in the July shooting death of Deeniquia Dodds, a transgender man. Just over 120 people previously sentenced under the Youth Rehabilitation Act have subsequently been convicted of murder since 2010.

“I knew they were going to let me off easy,” Tavon Pinkney, an 18-year old convicted of homicide in 2015, told The Washington Post regarding his previous sentencing under the youth law. “Nothing changed … They just gave me the Youth Act and let me go right back out there. They ain’t really care.”

key word '''DEBATING'' --that means you have no stats/proof/etc
the cities have the same diversity/etc
in fact, LA, CHi and NYC have much denser populations!!!

NYC had Guilliani....Chicago and St. Louis are letting violent criminals back on their streets....over and over again...

This is Chicago's problem...

A Detailed Look At Last Weekend's Chicago Gang Violence Shooting Victims - The Truth About Guns

Behind the scenes, Chicago Police put out a “Detailed Situational Report” (DSR) each weekday. On it, their “Data Warehouse” lists shooting incidents and murders along with guns recovered.
Inside, the report details the names and descriptions of each of the victims and suspects, including any gang affiliations and the location of each incident. Furthermore, it shows each person’s criminal history, a description of their injuries and their Strategic Subject List score. Lastly, it contains a narrative of what happened.
Because it’s Chicago — where support from “the community” typically hovers near zero — police seldom identify any suspects, much less make arrests. In fact, CPD has made arrests in only 13% of homicides so far in 2018.
A casual glance through the confidential DSR reveals that virtually every victim of Chicago violence last weekend had gang ties. Either as a member of a gang or those (often young females) who hang out with gang members. The other glaring common thread: the victims themselves usually have criminal histories, too.
In fact, poring over the fifteen pages of incidents (pasted end to end, that’s over 10 feet of incidents), only 21 of the 78 victims did not have a criminal history. Meanwhile, those with arrest records garnered a total of 813 arrests between them.
Eight hundred thirteen arrests.
At the same time, Cook County’s infamous “catch and release” criminal justice system only managed to gain convictions in 120 of those 813 arrests.
For example, one 23-year-old Black P. Stone gang member who was shot in the gut had 35 arrests and zero convictions. One perforated 66-year-old had 55 arrests!
Another 32-year-old Four Corner Hustlers member, Charles Green, had 62 arrests, but he won’t re-offend. Not after he suffered multiple gunshot wounds that proved fatal. Green’s colorful past included arrests for dope, more dope, armed robbery, and a murder for which Cook County prosecutor Kim Foxx released him without charges.
Tip for the day, besides avoiding Chicago: mommas, don’t let your girls hang out with gang members. Otherwise, they can find themselves caught in the crossfire, and they don’t always survive.
Three young adult women without any criminal history or gang affiliations suffered gunshot wounds in a single incident at 1338 S. Millard Ave. Two offenders began shooting into “a large street gathering” wounding a total of seven. Tragically, a 17-year-old girl named Jahnae Patterson died there from a wound to her face.
--------------
Meanwhile, another victim at that same location, aged 14, remains in good condition. How terrible, you say? That same 14-year-old named Marion already has two arrests for car burglaries and a Strategic Subject List (SSL) score of 385. The SSL score serves to indicate potential future criminal behavior. As defined by the City of Chicago:

Another case caught my eye. The victim, Miguel, a 19-year-old Hispanic male, told police he saw some people who recognized him emerge from a convenience store. For some unknown reason (he says) they began chasing him in the 3900 block of S. Rockwell. In the alley behind the store, he heard gunshots and felt pain.

Before you start oozing sympathy for this poor teen, know that CPD says Miguel also moonlights as a Satan Disciples gang member and has built his SSL score to 500. With a SSL score that high, Darwin will probably catch up with him soon enough, assuming he survives this hospital visit.

--------

Baltimore...

2017 homicide data provide insight into Baltimore's gun wars, police say



About 86 percent of the victims and 85 percent of the 118 suspects identified by police had prior criminal records. And about 46 percent of victims and 44 percent of suspects had previously been arrested for gun crimes, the data show.
----
The average homicide victim in Baltimore in 2017 had 11 previous arrests on his record. About 73 percent had drug arrests, and nearly 50 percent had been arrested for a violent crime. About 30 percent were on parole or probation at the time they were killed, and more than 6 percent were on parole or probation for a gun crime.

Twenty percent of the victims were known members of a gang or drug crew, according to the data.

The average homicide suspect, meanwhile, had 9 previous arrests on his record. About 70 percent had drug arrests, and nearly half had been arrested for a violent crime. Nearly 36 percent were on parole or probation, and 6 percent were on parole or probation for a gun crime, the data show.

Eighteen percent of the suspects were known members of a gang or drug crew, according to the data.

Police did not know the motive behind nearly half of the killings, but at least 20 were related to retaliation, according to the data.


=============

Chicago..


Actual report on shootings in chicago...http://urbanlabs.uchicago.edu/attachments/store/2435a5d4658e2ca19f4f225b810ce0dbdb9231cbdb8d702e784087469ee3/UChicagoCrimeLab+Gun+Violence+in+Chicago+2016.pdf


1/19/17 Shooters in Chicago criminal record research from U of C






Nearly 40 percent of victims had more than 10 prior arrests, while the share with more than 20 prior arrests rose from 14 to 18 percent in 2016.

The share of victims with a current or prior gang affiliation as recorded by CPD was about the same in both years (53 and 54 percent).

And now the shooters . . .

Individuals arrested for a homicide or shooting in Chicago in 2016 and 2015 had similar prior criminal records: around 90 percent had at least one prior arrest, approximately 50 percent had a prior arrest for a violent crime specifically, and almost 40 percent had a prior gun arrest.



The average person arrested for a homicide or shooting in both years had nearly 12 prior arrests, with almost 45 percent having had more than 10 prior arrests, and almost 20 percent having had more than 20 prior arrests.

Why is anyone in Chicago (or elsewhere) talking about gun control? Clearly, Chicago’s revolving door justice system is a failure that allows dangerous killers to roam the city streets.
============================


12/27/16 Gang shootings in Chicago over christmas..90% gang affiliated


Gang Killers In Chicago Used Christmas Gatherings To Target Their Victims

Gang killers, knowing their targets would be home for Christmas, launched a bloody weekend of shootings in Chicago that left 11 dead and another 37 wounded.

"We now know that the majority of these shootings and homicides were targeted attacks by gangs against potential rivals who were at holiday gatherings. This was followed by several acts of retaliatory gun violence," police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said in a statement Monday.

--------------

The violence primarily occurred in areas with historical gang conflicts on the South and West Side of Chicago."


And this is what we keep telling you anti gunners and you refuse to believe it....

"Ninety percent of those fatally wounded had gang affiliations, criminal histories and were pre-identified by the department's strategic subject algorithm as being a potential suspect or victim of gun violence," Guglielmi said.
==

again, you make no sense
STL is rated in the top 10 most dangerous cities--sometimes 1
Chi, NYC and LA not even in top ten
you have no argument there
explain this to me

Yes....I showed you why, they let violent gun criminals out on bail and out of jail, over and over again so they won't be perceived as racists...dittos Chicago.....

Baltimore has the same extreme gun control as Chicago and New York, and a tiny population......and higher gun murder numbers than New York or L.A.....

New York had the police techniques of Rudy Guilliani and his police Comissioner that they are still using...Chicago is not.....Baltimore is not, D.C. is not...

 

[harmonica]

ok--and I've stated this before--if it's a difference of UK vs American culture and not gun control, explain this:
==very pro-gun/lax gun control St Louis:--population 320,000... murders -199
==very gun controlled NYC population 8.6 MILLION... murders-300 !!!!!!!!!!!!

very gun controlled Chicago and LA lower murder rates than very pro-gun STL

SAME country!!!!! SAME cultures

St. Louis homicide statistics for 2017
2017 was record-low for homicides in New York City, with NYPD logging lowest number in nearly 70 years - NY Daily News

Wrong....St. Louis, like chicago, lets violent gun criminals out of prison....you have been shown this over and over againg...in all the cities where gun crime is through the roof you have democrat policies allowing criminals out of prison....New York had Guilliani, who locked them up and his police policies are still in place...

It isn't normal, law abiding gun owners committing the crime....... when you keep letting the violent criminals out on bail, and out of jail, you get more gun murder...

You have missed the truth about this issue.

Mayor of St. Louis - Wikipedia


Rise in Murders Has St. Louis Debating Why

Jennifer M. Joyce, the city’s circuit attorney, or prosecutor, an elected position, complains that in St. Louis, the illegal possession of a gun is too often “a crime without a consequence,” making it difficult to stop confrontation from turning lethal.

At the same time, deeper social roots of violence such as addiction and unemployment continue unchecked. And city officials also cite what they call a “Ferguson effect,” an increase in crime last year as police officers were diverted to control protests after a white officer shot and killed Michael Brown, an unarmed black teenager in the nearby suburb on Aug. 9.

-----------

Now, an overstretched department is forced to pick one neighborhood at a time to flood with officers. Last month, Chief Dotson even asked the state highway patrol if it could lend a dozen men to help watch downtown streets; the agency declined.
----
When the police discover a gun in a car with several passengers, including some with felony records, but no one admits to owning the gun, criminal charges are often impossible, Mr. Rosenfeld said.

In addition, according to a 2014 study by Mr. Rosenfeld and his colleagues, a majority of those who are convicted of illegally possessing a gun but not caught using it in a crime receive probation rather than jail time. Gun laws and enforcement are stiffer in many other cities.

Violence down in St. Louis but homicides hold steady. Are tougher penalties for gun crimes the answer?
But many challenges remain, official said. The department is still down more than 130 officers. Witnesses to crimes remain reluctant to come forward for fear of retaliation, making it difficult to close cases. And a lack of state laws to deter gun crimes has forced the police to turn to federal courts to indict some suspects.

On Tuesday, Edwards made a new pitch: He wants to see the mandatory minimum sentence for armed criminal action raised from its current ceiling of three years to at least 15 years for nonfatal shootings, and 25 years for fatal shootings.

--------

D.C.

DC Won’t Allow Concealed Carry, But Takes It Easy On Armed, Violent Criminals

The problems stem from the city’s Youth Rehabilitation Act, legislation implemented in the 1980s to provide leniency to criminal offenders under the age of 22, even violent ones, with murder convictions being the only exception. It allows judges to disregard mandatory minimums meant to dissuade criminals, often to disastrous effects. The homicide rate spiked by 54 percent in the District in 2015, and 22 of the murderers were previously sentenced for crimes under the Youth Rehabilitation Act, according to an investigation by The Washington Post.

A man released on probation in 2015 under the law was involved in the July shooting death of Deeniquia Dodds, a transgender man. Just over 120 people previously sentenced under the Youth Rehabilitation Act have subsequently been convicted of murder since 2010.

“I knew they were going to let me off easy,” Tavon Pinkney, an 18-year old convicted of homicide in 2015, told The Washington Post regarding his previous sentencing under the youth law. “Nothing changed … They just gave me the Youth Act and let me go right back out there. They ain’t really care.”

key word '''DEBATING'' --that means you have no stats/proof/etc
the cities have the same diversity/etc
in fact, LA, CHi and NYC have much denser populations!!!

NYC had Guilliani....Chicago and St. Louis are letting violent criminals back on their streets....over and over again...

This is Chicago's problem...

A Detailed Look At Last Weekend's Chicago Gang Violence Shooting Victims - The Truth About Guns

Behind the scenes, Chicago Police put out a “Detailed Situational Report” (DSR) each weekday. On it, their “Data Warehouse” lists shooting incidents and murders along with guns recovered.
Inside, the report details the names and descriptions of each of the victims and suspects, including any gang affiliations and the location of each incident. Furthermore, it shows each person’s criminal history, a description of their injuries and their Strategic Subject List score. Lastly, it contains a narrative of what happened.
Because it’s Chicago — where support from “the community” typically hovers near zero — police seldom identify any suspects, much less make arrests. In fact, CPD has made arrests in only 13% of homicides so far in 2018.
A casual glance through the confidential DSR reveals that virtually every victim of Chicago violence last weekend had gang ties. Either as a member of a gang or those (often young females) who hang out with gang members. The other glaring common thread: the victims themselves usually have criminal histories, too.
In fact, poring over the fifteen pages of incidents (pasted end to end, that’s over 10 feet of incidents), only 21 of the 78 victims did not have a criminal history. Meanwhile, those with arrest records garnered a total of 813 arrests between them.
Eight hundred thirteen arrests.
At the same time, Cook County’s infamous “catch and release” criminal justice system only managed to gain convictions in 120 of those 813 arrests.
For example, one 23-year-old Black P. Stone gang member who was shot in the gut had 35 arrests and zero convictions. One perforated 66-year-old had 55 arrests!
Another 32-year-old Four Corner Hustlers member, Charles Green, had 62 arrests, but he won’t re-offend. Not after he suffered multiple gunshot wounds that proved fatal. Green’s colorful past included arrests for dope, more dope, armed robbery, and a murder for which Cook County prosecutor Kim Foxx released him without charges.
Tip for the day, besides avoiding Chicago: mommas, don’t let your girls hang out with gang members. Otherwise, they can find themselves caught in the crossfire, and they don’t always survive.
Three young adult women without any criminal history or gang affiliations suffered gunshot wounds in a single incident at 1338 S. Millard Ave. Two offenders began shooting into “a large street gathering” wounding a total of seven. Tragically, a 17-year-old girl named Jahnae Patterson died there from a wound to her face.
--------------
Meanwhile, another victim at that same location, aged 14, remains in good condition. How terrible, you say? That same 14-year-old named Marion already has two arrests for car burglaries and a Strategic Subject List (SSL) score of 385. The SSL score serves to indicate potential future criminal behavior. As defined by the City of Chicago:

Another case caught my eye. The victim, Miguel, a 19-year-old Hispanic male, told police he saw some people who recognized him emerge from a convenience store. For some unknown reason (he says) they began chasing him in the 3900 block of S. Rockwell. In the alley behind the store, he heard gunshots and felt pain.

Before you start oozing sympathy for this poor teen, know that CPD says Miguel also moonlights as a Satan Disciples gang member and has built his SSL score to 500. With a SSL score that high, Darwin will probably catch up with him soon enough, assuming he survives this hospital visit.

--------

Baltimore...

2017 homicide data provide insight into Baltimore's gun wars, police say



About 86 percent of the victims and 85 percent of the 118 suspects identified by police had prior criminal records. And about 46 percent of victims and 44 percent of suspects had previously been arrested for gun crimes, the data show.
----
The average homicide victim in Baltimore in 2017 had 11 previous arrests on his record. About 73 percent had drug arrests, and nearly 50 percent had been arrested for a violent crime. About 30 percent were on parole or probation at the time they were killed, and more than 6 percent were on parole or probation for a gun crime.

Twenty percent of the victims were known members of a gang or drug crew, according to the data.

The average homicide suspect, meanwhile, had 9 previous arrests on his record. About 70 percent had drug arrests, and nearly half had been arrested for a violent crime. Nearly 36 percent were on parole or probation, and 6 percent were on parole or probation for a gun crime, the data show.

Eighteen percent of the suspects were known members of a gang or drug crew, according to the data.

Police did not know the motive behind nearly half of the killings, but at least 20 were related to retaliation, according to the data.


=============

Chicago..


Actual report on shootings in chicago...http://urbanlabs.uchicago.edu/attachments/store/2435a5d4658e2ca19f4f225b810ce0dbdb9231cbdb8d702e784087469ee3/UChicagoCrimeLab+Gun+Violence+in+Chicago+2016.pdf


1/19/17 Shooters in Chicago criminal record research from U of C






Nearly 40 percent of victims had more than 10 prior arrests, while the share with more than 20 prior arrests rose from 14 to 18 percent in 2016.

The share of victims with a current or prior gang affiliation as recorded by CPD was about the same in both years (53 and 54 percent).

And now the shooters . . .

Individuals arrested for a homicide or shooting in Chicago in 2016 and 2015 had similar prior criminal records: around 90 percent had at least one prior arrest, approximately 50 percent had a prior arrest for a violent crime specifically, and almost 40 percent had a prior gun arrest.



The average person arrested for a homicide or shooting in both years had nearly 12 prior arrests, with almost 45 percent having had more than 10 prior arrests, and almost 20 percent having had more than 20 prior arrests.

Why is anyone in Chicago (or elsewhere) talking about gun control? Clearly, Chicago’s revolving door justice system is a failure that allows dangerous killers to roam the city streets.
============================


12/27/16 Gang shootings in Chicago over christmas..90% gang affiliated


Gang Killers In Chicago Used Christmas Gatherings To Target Their Victims

Gang killers, knowing their targets would be home for Christmas, launched a bloody weekend of shootings in Chicago that left 11 dead and another 37 wounded.

"We now know that the majority of these shootings and homicides were targeted attacks by gangs against potential rivals who were at holiday gatherings. This was followed by several acts of retaliatory gun violence," police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said in a statement Monday.

--------------

The violence primarily occurred in areas with historical gang conflicts on the South and West Side of Chicago."


And this is what we keep telling you anti gunners and you refuse to believe it....

"Ninety percent of those fatally wounded had gang affiliations, criminal histories and were pre-identified by the department's strategic subject algorithm as being a potential suspect or victim of gun violence," Guglielmi said.
==

again, you make no sense
STL is rated in the top 10 most dangerous cities--sometimes 1
Chi, NYC and LA not even in top ten
you have no argument there
explain this to me

Yes....I showed you why, they let violent gun criminals out on bail and out of jail, over and over again so they won't be perceived as racists...dittos Chicago.....

Baltimore has the same extreme gun control as Chicago and New York, and a tiny population......and higher gun murder numbers than New York or L.A.....

New York had the police techniques of Rudy Guilliani and his police Comissioner that they are still using...Chicago is not.....Baltimore is not, D.C. is not...

Germany ,France, and England = lower murder rates with very strict gun control
NYCity 8.6 MILLION people

.....final--you need to attack the problem with MULTIPLE ways--and gun control MUST be one of those

 

[idb]

Don't I? How the fuck would you know?

The point I was making, and somehow it managed to slip massively past you, was that you said that the death of so many males caused families to break up, which then led to social problems, and therefore by the time the 2000s came along, and all this violence, the widowers of those who died in WW1 were probably dead, and widowers of WW2 were probably in their 80s or 90s.

So how the FUCK does that impact the 2000s?

Can you please explain how a person dying in WW1 impacted the crime rate going up in the 2000s?

No...moron, that isn't what I said... I said the destruction and death of the Two World Wars, and now that I think of it, the Depression, slowed down their society advancing the way the U.S. did.... So, moron, you have the death and destruction of World War 1, and it's aftermath, the Depression, and then World War 2.....major, catastrophic events....... and they slowed down those societies in Europe...... now you have the social welfare states wrecking the family structures in those countries, allowing young teenage girls to have children without husbands, and fathers for those children, so the young males have no one to raise them into young men.... And you are now seeing the effects of that in the increasing violence in those societies, especially Britain.....

If your reasoning about Britain being battered in two world wars (and now you throw in the Depression) causing crime rates to rise is true, then why has the US been so far ahead of them in this regard for so long?
Especially when, in your reasoning, they have been insulated from all this mayhem and living in a land of milk and honey.
Are you saying that Americans are just naturally bigger arseholes than the Brits?

Why do you hate Americans?

Our society didn't get hit with the destruction, we had a booming post War economy with stable families...it wasn't until the 1960s where we had the Great Society destroy those families...especially minority families in our democrat party controlled cities.... That is when single teenage girls could have children without fathers in the home.....and from the 1960s going forward you had the huge crime problem here.......Britain is just now starting that violence problem....

So....I think I might understand now.
Correct me if I've got it wrong.

In the UK, women who grew up during the World Wars and Depression are just starting to have children.
The children don't have fathers because all the men were killed in the War.
Also, they didn't have children before now because the place was a wreck...as well as all the men being dead.
The children are now out on a murderous rampage throughout the country.

It all makes perfect sense now.

No....moron. The British culture was still intact right after the war so they still had family structures in place..... then they started their social welfare state which allowed young girls to have children without husbands and fathers...

So where did the issue with all the men being killed come into it...I'm sure you brought that into your well-reasoned argument earlier on.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Fascinating. How has the US managed to avoid the single mother problem ?

We haven't, you moron, which is why we have full prisons, and in our democrat party cities we have high gun murder rates.....that is what I keep telling you.......

So, the UK has an increase in violent crime in the 2000s because of the impact of WW1 and WW2. Yet the US which avoided a lot of that suffering on the home front has a much higher murder rate.

What are you fucking talking about?

It has to do with the destruction of the family.....single teenage girls raising young males..... we reached that point earlier...in the 1960s, because we didn't get set back by World War 2....they fell behind, and now are catching up, their social welfare programs have finally reached the point where they have destroyed their families...

Well, WW1 and WW2 had nothing to do with the destruction of the families in the UK.

Maggie "the bitch" Thatcher had A LOT TO DO with the destruction of the family.

How Britain changed under Margaret Thatcher. In 15 charts

"
Families
Ironically for a prime minister who focussed so much on family life, the 1980s saw the end of the traditional family unit for many. Divorce rates reached 13.4 per 1,000 married population in 1985, although that wasn't as high as the peak of 1994 after the recession."

Ah, Thatcher came in in 1979 and left in 1990 and the divorce rate rose during her time and after.

She got rid of things like council houses which allowed people to have a home, which helps when you want to keep a family.

Shotton, 1984: How Thatcher destroyed our town

She destroyed communities and didn't bother to try and help them.

Viewpoints: How did Thatcher change UK?

"The problem was that the Thatcher government did not care about those who lost out as a result of it and did not do enough to replenish the housing stock that had been sold off."

So, Thatcher was the problem, not wars that happened half a century or more before. Major didn't help either. The Tories like to destroy things that keep things good.

Who needs the police? The rich can pay for private security.
Who needs education? The rich can pay for private education.
Who needs health care? The rich can pay for private health care.

See the problem?

The problem is the welfare state. When single girls can have children without fathers and husbands, you get more violent crime as their daughters also have children without fathers....

Oh great, another thing pulled right out of the hat. Don't you think doing a little research before making ridiculous claims would be a good idea?

Teenage pregnancy by state in the US. Funny how it's the right wing states that have the most teenage pregnancy, isn't it?

Surely it'd be the other way around, wouldn't right wing states give teenage mothers LESS MONEY?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Do they have 30,000+ gun deaths a year? No. They are doing something very right and we are doing something very wrong.

they didn't have that many before they banned guns...now they have more gun crime after they banned guns for law abiding Brits....

Meanwhile...we have less gun crime as more Americans own and carry guns....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

You quote trends to justify your nonsense but the absoute figures arent moving. The UK death rate isnt in the same league as the US death rate. Primarily because it is not easy to get guns.
The US is the only developed nation that has this issue and is more dangerous than the Albania which Hollywood demonised in the Taken movies. That is where you are.

 

[2aguy]

Do they have 30,000+ gun deaths a year? No. They are doing something very right and we are doing something very wrong.

they didn't have that many before they banned guns...now they have more gun crime after they banned guns for law abiding Brits....

Meanwhile...we have less gun crime as more Americans own and carry guns....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

You quote trends to justify your nonsense but the absoute figures arent moving. The UK death rate isnt in the same league as the US death rate. Primarily because it is not easy to get guns.
The US is the only developed nation that has this issue and is more dangerous than the Albania which Hollywood demonised in the Taken movies. That is where you are.

If it isn't easy to get guns why is your gun crime rate going up? Criminals get illegal guns otherwise your gun crime rate wouldn't be going up, 42% in London, 23% across England and Wales in 2016......which means they have guns, they just don't use them to commit murder.....they shoot to wound as punishment or intimidation, they don't shoot to kill.

 

[2aguy]

We haven't, you moron, which is why we have full prisons, and in our democrat party cities we have high gun murder rates.....that is what I keep telling you.......

So, the UK has an increase in violent crime in the 2000s because of the impact of WW1 and WW2. Yet the US which avoided a lot of that suffering on the home front has a much higher murder rate.

What are you fucking talking about?

It has to do with the destruction of the family.....single teenage girls raising young males..... we reached that point earlier...in the 1960s, because we didn't get set back by World War 2....they fell behind, and now are catching up, their social welfare programs have finally reached the point where they have destroyed their families...

Well, WW1 and WW2 had nothing to do with the destruction of the families in the UK.

Maggie "the bitch" Thatcher had A LOT TO DO with the destruction of the family.

How Britain changed under Margaret Thatcher. In 15 charts

"
Families
Ironically for a prime minister who focussed so much on family life, the 1980s saw the end of the traditional family unit for many. Divorce rates reached 13.4 per 1,000 married population in 1985, although that wasn't as high as the peak of 1994 after the recession."

Ah, Thatcher came in in 1979 and left in 1990 and the divorce rate rose during her time and after.

She got rid of things like council houses which allowed people to have a home, which helps when you want to keep a family.

Shotton, 1984: How Thatcher destroyed our town

She destroyed communities and didn't bother to try and help them.

Viewpoints: How did Thatcher change UK?

"The problem was that the Thatcher government did not care about those who lost out as a result of it and did not do enough to replenish the housing stock that had been sold off."

So, Thatcher was the problem, not wars that happened half a century or more before. Major didn't help either. The Tories like to destroy things that keep things good.

Who needs the police? The rich can pay for private security.
Who needs education? The rich can pay for private education.
Who needs health care? The rich can pay for private health care.

See the problem?

The problem is the welfare state. When single girls can have children without fathers and husbands, you get more violent crime as their daughters also have children without fathers....

Oh great, another thing pulled right out of the hat. Don't you think doing a little research before making ridiculous claims would be a good idea?

Teenage pregnancy by state in the US. Funny how it's the right wing states that have the most teenage pregnancy, isn't it?

Surely it'd be the other way around, wouldn't right wing states give teenage mothers LESS MONEY?

Moron....out of wedlock birth rates are highest in the Black community, the community with the highest incarceration rates and the highest gun murder rates....are you really this dense? The Border states....Hispanic out of wedlock birth rates.....

77% black births to single moms, 49% for Hispanic immigrants

77% black births to single moms, 49% for Hispanic immigrants

-------
The National Center for Health Statistics said that in 2015, 77.3 percent of non-immigrant black births were illegitimate. The national non-immigrant average is 42 percent, and it was 30 percent for whites.

The new numbers were in a Center for Immigration Studies analysis on the births to immigrants. That total is 32.7 percent, but to Hispanic immigrants it is 48.9 percent, according to Steven Camarota, the director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies.
---

There is good evidence that children born to unmarried parents are at higher risk of dropping out of high school, having run-ins with the law, and other negative social outcomes. This maybe especially true for children born to immigrants because of the challenges associated with adjusting to life in their parents' adopted country.

 

[2aguy]

No...moron, that isn't what I said... I said the destruction and death of the Two World Wars, and now that I think of it, the Depression, slowed down their society advancing the way the U.S. did.... So, moron, you have the death and destruction of World War 1, and it's aftermath, the Depression, and then World War 2.....major, catastrophic events....... and they slowed down those societies in Europe...... now you have the social welfare states wrecking the family structures in those countries, allowing young teenage girls to have children without husbands, and fathers for those children, so the young males have no one to raise them into young men.... And you are now seeing the effects of that in the increasing violence in those societies, especially Britain.....

If your reasoning about Britain being battered in two world wars (and now you throw in the Depression) causing crime rates to rise is true, then why has the US been so far ahead of them in this regard for so long?
Especially when, in your reasoning, they have been insulated from all this mayhem and living in a land of milk and honey.
Are you saying that Americans are just naturally bigger arseholes than the Brits?

Why do you hate Americans?

Our society didn't get hit with the destruction, we had a booming post War economy with stable families...it wasn't until the 1960s where we had the Great Society destroy those families...especially minority families in our democrat party controlled cities.... That is when single teenage girls could have children without fathers in the home.....and from the 1960s going forward you had the huge crime problem here.......Britain is just now starting that violence problem....

So....I think I might understand now.
Correct me if I've got it wrong.

In the UK, women who grew up during the World Wars and Depression are just starting to have children.
The children don't have fathers because all the men were killed in the War.
Also, they didn't have children before now because the place was a wreck...as well as all the men being dead.
The children are now out on a murderous rampage throughout the country.

It all makes perfect sense now.

No....moron. The British culture was still intact right after the war so they still had family structures in place..... then they started their social welfare state which allowed young girls to have children without husbands and fathers...

So where did the issue with all the men being killed come into it...I'm sure you brought that into your well-reasoned argument earlier on.

You had large numbers of young males killed in the wars....it slows down the growth of a society....both economically and culturally which is why Europe lagged behind the U.S....

 

[2aguy]

Wrong....St. Louis, like chicago, lets violent gun criminals out of prison....you have been shown this over and over againg...in all the cities where gun crime is through the roof you have democrat policies allowing criminals out of prison....New York had Guilliani, who locked them up and his police policies are still in place...

It isn't normal, law abiding gun owners committing the crime....... when you keep letting the violent criminals out on bail, and out of jail, you get more gun murder...

You have missed the truth about this issue.

Mayor of St. Louis - Wikipedia


Rise in Murders Has St. Louis Debating Why

Jennifer M. Joyce, the city’s circuit attorney, or prosecutor, an elected position, complains that in St. Louis, the illegal possession of a gun is too often “a crime without a consequence,” making it difficult to stop confrontation from turning lethal.

At the same time, deeper social roots of violence such as addiction and unemployment continue unchecked. And city officials also cite what they call a “Ferguson effect,” an increase in crime last year as police officers were diverted to control protests after a white officer shot and killed Michael Brown, an unarmed black teenager in the nearby suburb on Aug. 9.

-----------

Now, an overstretched department is forced to pick one neighborhood at a time to flood with officers. Last month, Chief Dotson even asked the state highway patrol if it could lend a dozen men to help watch downtown streets; the agency declined.
----
When the police discover a gun in a car with several passengers, including some with felony records, but no one admits to owning the gun, criminal charges are often impossible, Mr. Rosenfeld said.

In addition, according to a 2014 study by Mr. Rosenfeld and his colleagues, a majority of those who are convicted of illegally possessing a gun but not caught using it in a crime receive probation rather than jail time. Gun laws and enforcement are stiffer in many other cities.

Violence down in St. Louis but homicides hold steady. Are tougher penalties for gun crimes the answer?
But many challenges remain, official said. The department is still down more than 130 officers. Witnesses to crimes remain reluctant to come forward for fear of retaliation, making it difficult to close cases. And a lack of state laws to deter gun crimes has forced the police to turn to federal courts to indict some suspects.

On Tuesday, Edwards made a new pitch: He wants to see the mandatory minimum sentence for armed criminal action raised from its current ceiling of three years to at least 15 years for nonfatal shootings, and 25 years for fatal shootings.

--------

D.C.

DC Won’t Allow Concealed Carry, But Takes It Easy On Armed, Violent Criminals

The problems stem from the city’s Youth Rehabilitation Act, legislation implemented in the 1980s to provide leniency to criminal offenders under the age of 22, even violent ones, with murder convictions being the only exception. It allows judges to disregard mandatory minimums meant to dissuade criminals, often to disastrous effects. The homicide rate spiked by 54 percent in the District in 2015, and 22 of the murderers were previously sentenced for crimes under the Youth Rehabilitation Act, according to an investigation by The Washington Post.

A man released on probation in 2015 under the law was involved in the July shooting death of Deeniquia Dodds, a transgender man. Just over 120 people previously sentenced under the Youth Rehabilitation Act have subsequently been convicted of murder since 2010.

“I knew they were going to let me off easy,” Tavon Pinkney, an 18-year old convicted of homicide in 2015, told The Washington Post regarding his previous sentencing under the youth law. “Nothing changed … They just gave me the Youth Act and let me go right back out there. They ain’t really care.”

key word '''DEBATING'' --that means you have no stats/proof/etc
the cities have the same diversity/etc
in fact, LA, CHi and NYC have much denser populations!!!

NYC had Guilliani....Chicago and St. Louis are letting violent criminals back on their streets....over and over again...

This is Chicago's problem...

A Detailed Look At Last Weekend's Chicago Gang Violence Shooting Victims - The Truth About Guns

Behind the scenes, Chicago Police put out a “Detailed Situational Report” (DSR) each weekday. On it, their “Data Warehouse” lists shooting incidents and murders along with guns recovered.
Inside, the report details the names and descriptions of each of the victims and suspects, including any gang affiliations and the location of each incident. Furthermore, it shows each person’s criminal history, a description of their injuries and their Strategic Subject List score. Lastly, it contains a narrative of what happened.
Because it’s Chicago — where support from “the community” typically hovers near zero — police seldom identify any suspects, much less make arrests. In fact, CPD has made arrests in only 13% of homicides so far in 2018.
A casual glance through the confidential DSR reveals that virtually every victim of Chicago violence last weekend had gang ties. Either as a member of a gang or those (often young females) who hang out with gang members. The other glaring common thread: the victims themselves usually have criminal histories, too.
In fact, poring over the fifteen pages of incidents (pasted end to end, that’s over 10 feet of incidents), only 21 of the 78 victims did not have a criminal history. Meanwhile, those with arrest records garnered a total of 813 arrests between them.
Eight hundred thirteen arrests.
At the same time, Cook County’s infamous “catch and release” criminal justice system only managed to gain convictions in 120 of those 813 arrests.
For example, one 23-year-old Black P. Stone gang member who was shot in the gut had 35 arrests and zero convictions. One perforated 66-year-old had 55 arrests!
Another 32-year-old Four Corner Hustlers member, Charles Green, had 62 arrests, but he won’t re-offend. Not after he suffered multiple gunshot wounds that proved fatal. Green’s colorful past included arrests for dope, more dope, armed robbery, and a murder for which Cook County prosecutor Kim Foxx released him without charges.
Tip for the day, besides avoiding Chicago: mommas, don’t let your girls hang out with gang members. Otherwise, they can find themselves caught in the crossfire, and they don’t always survive.
Three young adult women without any criminal history or gang affiliations suffered gunshot wounds in a single incident at 1338 S. Millard Ave. Two offenders began shooting into “a large street gathering” wounding a total of seven. Tragically, a 17-year-old girl named Jahnae Patterson died there from a wound to her face.
--------------
Meanwhile, another victim at that same location, aged 14, remains in good condition. How terrible, you say? That same 14-year-old named Marion already has two arrests for car burglaries and a Strategic Subject List (SSL) score of 385. The SSL score serves to indicate potential future criminal behavior. As defined by the City of Chicago:

Another case caught my eye. The victim, Miguel, a 19-year-old Hispanic male, told police he saw some people who recognized him emerge from a convenience store. For some unknown reason (he says) they began chasing him in the 3900 block of S. Rockwell. In the alley behind the store, he heard gunshots and felt pain.

Before you start oozing sympathy for this poor teen, know that CPD says Miguel also moonlights as a Satan Disciples gang member and has built his SSL score to 500. With a SSL score that high, Darwin will probably catch up with him soon enough, assuming he survives this hospital visit.

--------

Baltimore...

2017 homicide data provide insight into Baltimore's gun wars, police say



About 86 percent of the victims and 85 percent of the 118 suspects identified by police had prior criminal records. And about 46 percent of victims and 44 percent of suspects had previously been arrested for gun crimes, the data show.
----
The average homicide victim in Baltimore in 2017 had 11 previous arrests on his record. About 73 percent had drug arrests, and nearly 50 percent had been arrested for a violent crime. About 30 percent were on parole or probation at the time they were killed, and more than 6 percent were on parole or probation for a gun crime.

Twenty percent of the victims were known members of a gang or drug crew, according to the data.

The average homicide suspect, meanwhile, had 9 previous arrests on his record. About 70 percent had drug arrests, and nearly half had been arrested for a violent crime. Nearly 36 percent were on parole or probation, and 6 percent were on parole or probation for a gun crime, the data show.

Eighteen percent of the suspects were known members of a gang or drug crew, according to the data.

Police did not know the motive behind nearly half of the killings, but at least 20 were related to retaliation, according to the data.


=============

Chicago..


Actual report on shootings in chicago...http://urbanlabs.uchicago.edu/attachments/store/2435a5d4658e2ca19f4f225b810ce0dbdb9231cbdb8d702e784087469ee3/UChicagoCrimeLab+Gun+Violence+in+Chicago+2016.pdf


1/19/17 Shooters in Chicago criminal record research from U of C






Nearly 40 percent of victims had more than 10 prior arrests, while the share with more than 20 prior arrests rose from 14 to 18 percent in 2016.

The share of victims with a current or prior gang affiliation as recorded by CPD was about the same in both years (53 and 54 percent).

And now the shooters . . .

Individuals arrested for a homicide or shooting in Chicago in 2016 and 2015 had similar prior criminal records: around 90 percent had at least one prior arrest, approximately 50 percent had a prior arrest for a violent crime specifically, and almost 40 percent had a prior gun arrest.



The average person arrested for a homicide or shooting in both years had nearly 12 prior arrests, with almost 45 percent having had more than 10 prior arrests, and almost 20 percent having had more than 20 prior arrests.

Why is anyone in Chicago (or elsewhere) talking about gun control? Clearly, Chicago’s revolving door justice system is a failure that allows dangerous killers to roam the city streets.
============================


12/27/16 Gang shootings in Chicago over christmas..90% gang affiliated


Gang Killers In Chicago Used Christmas Gatherings To Target Their Victims

Gang killers, knowing their targets would be home for Christmas, launched a bloody weekend of shootings in Chicago that left 11 dead and another 37 wounded.

"We now know that the majority of these shootings and homicides were targeted attacks by gangs against potential rivals who were at holiday gatherings. This was followed by several acts of retaliatory gun violence," police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said in a statement Monday.

--------------

The violence primarily occurred in areas with historical gang conflicts on the South and West Side of Chicago."


And this is what we keep telling you anti gunners and you refuse to believe it....

"Ninety percent of those fatally wounded had gang affiliations, criminal histories and were pre-identified by the department's strategic subject algorithm as being a potential suspect or victim of gun violence," Guglielmi said.
==

again, you make no sense
STL is rated in the top 10 most dangerous cities--sometimes 1
Chi, NYC and LA not even in top ten
you have no argument there
explain this to me

Yes....I showed you why, they let violent gun criminals out on bail and out of jail, over and over again so they won't be perceived as racists...dittos Chicago.....

Baltimore has the same extreme gun control as Chicago and New York, and a tiny population......and higher gun murder numbers than New York or L.A.....

New York had the police techniques of Rudy Guilliani and his police Comissioner that they are still using...Chicago is not.....Baltimore is not, D.C. is not...

Germany ,France, and England = lower murder rates with very strict gun control
NYCity 8.6 MILLION people

.....final--you need to attack the problem with MULTIPLE ways--and gun control MUST be one of those

Europe was always less violent than the U.S......and after Britain banned and confiscated guns they have more gun crime not less....and violence across Europe and Britain is growing, not going down.

You need to explain how gun murder went down 49%, gun crime went down 75%, and violent crime went down 72% as more Americans started to own and actually carry guns...and you can't....

And Chicago and Baltimore have extreme gun control and have more gun murder than New York..the difference? New York had Rudy Guilliani and his police commissioner, and they are continuing to use their tactics to combat crime while Baltimore and Chicago let violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail over and over again. I have shown you the revolving door policy for violent gun offenders in Chicago, it is also happening in Baltimore and St. Louis....

Criminal control is the issue, not gun control. Do you really think that law abiding gun owners are doing the gun murder in these cities? It is the repeat gun offenders who are allowed to go back into these democrat party controlled inner cities that rack up the body counts...not John and Jane Q. Citizen carrying guns for self defense.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

So, the UK has an increase in violent crime in the 2000s because of the impact of WW1 and WW2. Yet the US which avoided a lot of that suffering on the home front has a much higher murder rate.

What are you fucking talking about?

It has to do with the destruction of the family.....single teenage girls raising young males..... we reached that point earlier...in the 1960s, because we didn't get set back by World War 2....they fell behind, and now are catching up, their social welfare programs have finally reached the point where they have destroyed their families...

Well, WW1 and WW2 had nothing to do with the destruction of the families in the UK.

Maggie "the bitch" Thatcher had A LOT TO DO with the destruction of the family.

How Britain changed under Margaret Thatcher. In 15 charts

"
Families
Ironically for a prime minister who focussed so much on family life, the 1980s saw the end of the traditional family unit for many. Divorce rates reached 13.4 per 1,000 married population in 1985, although that wasn't as high as the peak of 1994 after the recession."

Ah, Thatcher came in in 1979 and left in 1990 and the divorce rate rose during her time and after.

She got rid of things like council houses which allowed people to have a home, which helps when you want to keep a family.

Shotton, 1984: How Thatcher destroyed our town

She destroyed communities and didn't bother to try and help them.

Viewpoints: How did Thatcher change UK?

"The problem was that the Thatcher government did not care about those who lost out as a result of it and did not do enough to replenish the housing stock that had been sold off."

So, Thatcher was the problem, not wars that happened half a century or more before. Major didn't help either. The Tories like to destroy things that keep things good.

Who needs the police? The rich can pay for private security.
Who needs education? The rich can pay for private education.
Who needs health care? The rich can pay for private health care.

See the problem?

The problem is the welfare state. When single girls can have children without fathers and husbands, you get more violent crime as their daughters also have children without fathers....

Oh great, another thing pulled right out of the hat. Don't you think doing a little research before making ridiculous claims would be a good idea?

Teenage pregnancy by state in the US. Funny how it's the right wing states that have the most teenage pregnancy, isn't it?

Surely it'd be the other way around, wouldn't right wing states give teenage mothers LESS MONEY?

Moron....out of wedlock birth rates are highest in the Black community, the community with the highest incarceration rates and the highest gun murder rates....are you really this dense? The Border states....Hispanic out of wedlock birth rates.....

77% black births to single moms, 49% for Hispanic immigrants

77% black births to single moms, 49% for Hispanic immigrants

-------
The National Center for Health Statistics said that in 2015, 77.3 percent of non-immigrant black births were illegitimate. The national non-immigrant average is 42 percent, and it was 30 percent for whites.

The new numbers were in a Center for Immigration Studies analysis on the births to immigrants. That total is 32.7 percent, but to Hispanic immigrants it is 48.9 percent, according to Steven Camarota, the director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies.
---

There is good evidence that children born to unmarried parents are at higher risk of dropping out of high school, having run-ins with the law, and other negative social outcomes. This maybe especially true for children born to immigrants because of the challenges associated with adjusting to life in their parents' adopted country.

There are signifcant numbers of single families in France . Germany and the UK. And yet our gun crime is a fraction of the US. What is the difference ? We have gun laws which restrict access to killing machines. Its not complicated mate.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

If your reasoning about Britain being battered in two world wars (and now you throw in the Depression) causing crime rates to rise is true, then why has the US been so far ahead of them in this regard for so long?
Especially when, in your reasoning, they have been insulated from all this mayhem and living in a land of milk and honey.
Are you saying that Americans are just naturally bigger arseholes than the Brits?

Why do you hate Americans?

Our society didn't get hit with the destruction, we had a booming post War economy with stable families...it wasn't until the 1960s where we had the Great Society destroy those families...especially minority families in our democrat party controlled cities.... That is when single teenage girls could have children without fathers in the home.....and from the 1960s going forward you had the huge crime problem here.......Britain is just now starting that violence problem....

So....I think I might understand now.
Correct me if I've got it wrong.

In the UK, women who grew up during the World Wars and Depression are just starting to have children.
The children don't have fathers because all the men were killed in the War.
Also, they didn't have children before now because the place was a wreck...as well as all the men being dead.
The children are now out on a murderous rampage throughout the country.

It all makes perfect sense now.

No....moron. The British culture was still intact right after the war so they still had family structures in place..... then they started their social welfare state which allowed young girls to have children without husbands and fathers...

So where did the issue with all the men being killed come into it...I'm sure you brought that into your well-reasoned argument earlier on.

You had large numbers of young males killed in the wars....it slows down the growth of a society....both economically and culturally which is why Europe lagged behind the U.S....

No, it was because we had to rebuild our whole infrastructure. There was no Dresden or Coventry in the US.

 

[2aguy]

No...moron, that isn't what I said... I said the destruction and death of the Two World Wars, and now that I think of it, the Depression, slowed down their society advancing the way the U.S. did.... So, moron, you have the death and destruction of World War 1, and it's aftermath, the Depression, and then World War 2.....major, catastrophic events....... and they slowed down those societies in Europe...... now you have the social welfare states wrecking the family structures in those countries, allowing young teenage girls to have children without husbands, and fathers for those children, so the young males have no one to raise them into young men.... And you are now seeing the effects of that in the increasing violence in those societies, especially Britain.....

If your reasoning about Britain being battered in two world wars (and now you throw in the Depression) causing crime rates to rise is true, then why has the US been so far ahead of them in this regard for so long?
Especially when, in your reasoning, they have been insulated from all this mayhem and living in a land of milk and honey.
Are you saying that Americans are just naturally bigger arseholes than the Brits?

Why do you hate Americans?

Our society didn't get hit with the destruction, we had a booming post War economy with stable families...it wasn't until the 1960s where we had the Great Society destroy those families...especially minority families in our democrat party controlled cities.... That is when single teenage girls could have children without fathers in the home.....and from the 1960s going forward you had the huge crime problem here.......Britain is just now starting that violence problem....

So....I think I might understand now.
Correct me if I've got it wrong.

In the UK, women who grew up during the World Wars and Depression are just starting to have children.
The children don't have fathers because all the men were killed in the War.
Also, they didn't have children before now because the place was a wreck...as well as all the men being dead.
The children are now out on a murderous rampage throughout the country.

It all makes perfect sense now.

No....moron. The British culture was still intact right after the war so they still had family structures in place..... then they started their social welfare state which allowed young girls to have children without husbands and fathers...

So where did the issue with all the men being killed come into it...I'm sure you brought that into your well-reasoned argument earlier on.

It wasn't until the social welfare state came into being in Europe that the family began to break down.......

Post-war Societies | International Encyclopedia of the First World War (WW1)

Nevertheless, despite the upheaval (or perhaps even because of it), in the aftermath of war, many people felt a deep desire to return to “normal” (a concept that needs to be approached critically), to re-establish themselves within the framework of traditional family life. (Even in revolutionary Russia, there was an upsurge in marriages after the First World War. In Moscow, in 1919 – in the midst of the Civil War – there were 24,603 marriages, and in 1920 there were 21,363; in 1913, 10,093 marriages had been registered.)[3] The desire to return to “normal” was reflected not only in a postwar upsurge in marriages, births and the reconstitution of conventional family life, but also in the widespread pressure to remove women from their wartime employment and to return men to “their” jobs.[4] Here, too, domestic ideology was reinforced. Thus, in some respects, the First World War was more a conservative than a revolutionary force[5] as it manifested itself in postwar societies.

At the same time, the First World War led to what many regarded as an alarming breakdown of traditional moral standards. Divorce rates, while low compared to present-day levels, increased sharply in the wake of the war: in Germany, the number of divorces, which had averaged 15,633 annually between 1909 and 1913, peaked at 39,216 in 1921;[6] France saw a similar trend, rising from 15,450 divorces in 1913 to 29,156 in 1920 and 32,557 in 1921.[7] Further evidence of an apparent breakdown in moral standards was provided by rising crime levels – not least among women and youth.[8] Rising crime, anxiety about youth allegedly running wild after years without “the firm hand of the father”, and fears about the behaviour of soldiers returning from the front led many to conclude that the moral cement that had held society together was crumbling. As Jon Lawrence has observed of postwar Britain, there was widespread fear “that violence had slipped its chains – by the fear that the ex-servicemen, the general public, the state, or perhaps all three, had been irrevocably ‘brutalized’ by the mass carnage of four and a half years of war”.[9]

 

[2aguy]

It has to do with the destruction of the family.....single teenage girls raising young males..... we reached that point earlier...in the 1960s, because we didn't get set back by World War 2....they fell behind, and now are catching up, their social welfare programs have finally reached the point where they have destroyed their families...

Well, WW1 and WW2 had nothing to do with the destruction of the families in the UK.

Maggie "the bitch" Thatcher had A LOT TO DO with the destruction of the family.

How Britain changed under Margaret Thatcher. In 15 charts

"
Families
Ironically for a prime minister who focussed so much on family life, the 1980s saw the end of the traditional family unit for many. Divorce rates reached 13.4 per 1,000 married population in 1985, although that wasn't as high as the peak of 1994 after the recession."

Ah, Thatcher came in in 1979 and left in 1990 and the divorce rate rose during her time and after.

She got rid of things like council houses which allowed people to have a home, which helps when you want to keep a family.

Shotton, 1984: How Thatcher destroyed our town

She destroyed communities and didn't bother to try and help them.

Viewpoints: How did Thatcher change UK?

"The problem was that the Thatcher government did not care about those who lost out as a result of it and did not do enough to replenish the housing stock that had been sold off."

So, Thatcher was the problem, not wars that happened half a century or more before. Major didn't help either. The Tories like to destroy things that keep things good.

Who needs the police? The rich can pay for private security.
Who needs education? The rich can pay for private education.
Who needs health care? The rich can pay for private health care.

See the problem?

The problem is the welfare state. When single girls can have children without fathers and husbands, you get more violent crime as their daughters also have children without fathers....

Oh great, another thing pulled right out of the hat. Don't you think doing a little research before making ridiculous claims would be a good idea?

Teenage pregnancy by state in the US. Funny how it's the right wing states that have the most teenage pregnancy, isn't it?

Surely it'd be the other way around, wouldn't right wing states give teenage mothers LESS MONEY?

Moron....out of wedlock birth rates are highest in the Black community, the community with the highest incarceration rates and the highest gun murder rates....are you really this dense? The Border states....Hispanic out of wedlock birth rates.....

77% black births to single moms, 49% for Hispanic immigrants

77% black births to single moms, 49% for Hispanic immigrants

-------
The National Center for Health Statistics said that in 2015, 77.3 percent of non-immigrant black births were illegitimate. The national non-immigrant average is 42 percent, and it was 30 percent for whites.

The new numbers were in a Center for Immigration Studies analysis on the births to immigrants. That total is 32.7 percent, but to Hispanic immigrants it is 48.9 percent, according to Steven Camarota, the director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies.
---

There is good evidence that children born to unmarried parents are at higher risk of dropping out of high school, having run-ins with the law, and other negative social outcomes. This maybe especially true for children born to immigrants because of the challenges associated with adjusting to life in their parents' adopted country.

There are signifcant numbers of single families in France . Germany and the UK. And yet our gun crime is a fraction of the US. What is the difference ? We have gun laws which restrict access to killing machines. Its not complicated mate.

Moron...... those countries are becoming more and more violent.....I have pointed out that they are behind because of the destruction of the 2 world wars....it took the social welfare state to destroy the families in those countries...and as I showed Frigidweirdo, single teenage girls raising young males drives the crime rate, not guns.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Well, WW1 and WW2 had nothing to do with the destruction of the families in the UK.

Maggie "the bitch" Thatcher had A LOT TO DO with the destruction of the family.

How Britain changed under Margaret Thatcher. In 15 charts

"
Families
Ironically for a prime minister who focussed so much on family life, the 1980s saw the end of the traditional family unit for many. Divorce rates reached 13.4 per 1,000 married population in 1985, although that wasn't as high as the peak of 1994 after the recession."

Ah, Thatcher came in in 1979 and left in 1990 and the divorce rate rose during her time and after.

She got rid of things like council houses which allowed people to have a home, which helps when you want to keep a family.

Shotton, 1984: How Thatcher destroyed our town

She destroyed communities and didn't bother to try and help them.

Viewpoints: How did Thatcher change UK?

"The problem was that the Thatcher government did not care about those who lost out as a result of it and did not do enough to replenish the housing stock that had been sold off."

So, Thatcher was the problem, not wars that happened half a century or more before. Major didn't help either. The Tories like to destroy things that keep things good.

Who needs the police? The rich can pay for private security.
Who needs education? The rich can pay for private education.
Who needs health care? The rich can pay for private health care.

See the problem?

The problem is the welfare state. When single girls can have children without fathers and husbands, you get more violent crime as their daughters also have children without fathers....

Oh great, another thing pulled right out of the hat. Don't you think doing a little research before making ridiculous claims would be a good idea?

Teenage pregnancy by state in the US. Funny how it's the right wing states that have the most teenage pregnancy, isn't it?

Surely it'd be the other way around, wouldn't right wing states give teenage mothers LESS MONEY?

Moron....out of wedlock birth rates are highest in the Black community, the community with the highest incarceration rates and the highest gun murder rates....are you really this dense? The Border states....Hispanic out of wedlock birth rates.....

77% black births to single moms, 49% for Hispanic immigrants

77% black births to single moms, 49% for Hispanic immigrants

-------
The National Center for Health Statistics said that in 2015, 77.3 percent of non-immigrant black births were illegitimate. The national non-immigrant average is 42 percent, and it was 30 percent for whites.

The new numbers were in a Center for Immigration Studies analysis on the births to immigrants. That total is 32.7 percent, but to Hispanic immigrants it is 48.9 percent, according to Steven Camarota, the director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies.
---

There is good evidence that children born to unmarried parents are at higher risk of dropping out of high school, having run-ins with the law, and other negative social outcomes. This maybe especially true for children born to immigrants because of the challenges associated with adjusting to life in their parents' adopted country.

There are signifcant numbers of single families in France . Germany and the UK. And yet our gun crime is a fraction of the US. What is the difference ? We have gun laws which restrict access to killing machines. Its not complicated mate.

Moron...... those countries are becoming more and more violent.....I have pointed out that they are behind because of the destruction of the 2 world wars....it took the social welfare state to destroy the families in those countries...and as I showed Frigidweirdo, single teenage girls raising young males drives the crime rate, not guns.

You havent proved anything. Europe and the US have similar levels of single parents, maybe a bit lower, but the US death rate is 4 times higher than any country in western europe. There is no link.

Hmmmm. What could be the difference ?

BTW its not unmarried parents driving the crime rate it is primarily poverty. But lets leave that complicated issue for adults to discuss.

 

[2aguy]

The problem is the welfare state. When single girls can have children without fathers and husbands, you get more violent crime as their daughters also have children without fathers....

Oh great, another thing pulled right out of the hat. Don't you think doing a little research before making ridiculous claims would be a good idea?

Teenage pregnancy by state in the US. Funny how it's the right wing states that have the most teenage pregnancy, isn't it?

Surely it'd be the other way around, wouldn't right wing states give teenage mothers LESS MONEY?

Moron....out of wedlock birth rates are highest in the Black community, the community with the highest incarceration rates and the highest gun murder rates....are you really this dense? The Border states....Hispanic out of wedlock birth rates.....

77% black births to single moms, 49% for Hispanic immigrants

77% black births to single moms, 49% for Hispanic immigrants

-------
The National Center for Health Statistics said that in 2015, 77.3 percent of non-immigrant black births were illegitimate. The national non-immigrant average is 42 percent, and it was 30 percent for whites.

The new numbers were in a Center for Immigration Studies analysis on the births to immigrants. That total is 32.7 percent, but to Hispanic immigrants it is 48.9 percent, according to Steven Camarota, the director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies.
---

There is good evidence that children born to unmarried parents are at higher risk of dropping out of high school, having run-ins with the law, and other negative social outcomes. This maybe especially true for children born to immigrants because of the challenges associated with adjusting to life in their parents' adopted country.

There are signifcant numbers of single families in France . Germany and the UK. And yet our gun crime is a fraction of the US. What is the difference ? We have gun laws which restrict access to killing machines. Its not complicated mate.

Moron...... those countries are becoming more and more violent.....I have pointed out that they are behind because of the destruction of the 2 world wars....it took the social welfare state to destroy the families in those countries...and as I showed Frigidweirdo, single teenage girls raising young males drives the crime rate, not guns.

You havent proved anything. Europe and the US have similar levels of single parents, maybe a bit lower, but the US death rate is 4 times higher than any country in western europe. There is no link.

Hmmmm. What could be the difference ?

BTW its not unmarried parents driving the crime rate it is primarily poverty. But lets leave that complicated issue for adults to discuss.

We had tremendous poverty in the Great Depression, intact families and very little crime. Single teenage girls raising young males drives crime....

 

[frigidweirdo]

Do they have 30,000+ gun deaths a year? No. They are doing something very right and we are doing something very wrong.

they didn't have that many before they banned guns...now they have more gun crime after they banned guns for law abiding Brits....

Meanwhile...we have less gun crime as more Americans own and carry guns....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

You quote trends to justify your nonsense but the absoute figures arent moving. The UK death rate isnt in the same league as the US death rate. Primarily because it is not easy to get guns.
The US is the only developed nation that has this issue and is more dangerous than the Albania which Hollywood demonised in the Taken movies. That is where you are.

If it isn't easy to get guns why is your gun crime rate going up? Criminals get illegal guns otherwise your gun crime rate wouldn't be going up, 42% in London, 23% across England and Wales in 2016......which means they have guns, they just don't use them to commit murder.....they shoot to wound as punishment or intimidation, they don't shoot to kill.

Just because it isn't easy to get guns, doesn't mean some people can't get guns. They can.

The point is that EASY AVAILABILITY OF GUNS leads to more gun crime. That gun crime goes up and goes down is hardly something knew.

The problem is you're making out that going up is something that shouldn't happen. But crime goes up and down in the US as well as in the UK. That it's going up now is in part to policies the government has implemented over the last 8 years. Less social projects means more kids on the streets bored. Means they're more likely to commit crime etc.

That they don't shoot to kill is a POSITIVE THING. And it's there because they have A SINGLE GUN perhaps between a whole gang, but they want to show how hard, how strong, how much respect they "deserve" so they use the gun to prove it. They don't want to lose the gun, losing that gun makes them lose their prestige.

But then the police will find it much easier to do their job because MOST OTHER CRIMINALS AREN'T ARMED.

The police don't walk into a housing estate and have 20 pistols aimed at them like they might in the US. They might be looking for one gun, and the criminals know they don't stand a chance if they actually use that gun.

Why? Because of BRITAIN'S GUN CONTROL LAWS.

 

[cnm]

Britain banned and confiscated handguns...which are the leading weapons there for gun crime...you know, on an island that banned them...

Handguns are not banned in the UK, they are strictly regulated. Oh, forgot raving loonies can't be told. My bad.

 

[frigidweirdo]

So, the UK has an increase in violent crime in the 2000s because of the impact of WW1 and WW2. Yet the US which avoided a lot of that suffering on the home front has a much higher murder rate.

What are you fucking talking about?

It has to do with the destruction of the family.....single teenage girls raising young males..... we reached that point earlier...in the 1960s, because we didn't get set back by World War 2....they fell behind, and now are catching up, their social welfare programs have finally reached the point where they have destroyed their families...

Well, WW1 and WW2 had nothing to do with the destruction of the families in the UK.

Maggie "the bitch" Thatcher had A LOT TO DO with the destruction of the family.

How Britain changed under Margaret Thatcher. In 15 charts

"
Families
Ironically for a prime minister who focussed so much on family life, the 1980s saw the end of the traditional family unit for many. Divorce rates reached 13.4 per 1,000 married population in 1985, although that wasn't as high as the peak of 1994 after the recession."

Ah, Thatcher came in in 1979 and left in 1990 and the divorce rate rose during her time and after.

She got rid of things like council houses which allowed people to have a home, which helps when you want to keep a family.

Shotton, 1984: How Thatcher destroyed our town

She destroyed communities and didn't bother to try and help them.

Viewpoints: How did Thatcher change UK?

"The problem was that the Thatcher government did not care about those who lost out as a result of it and did not do enough to replenish the housing stock that had been sold off."

So, Thatcher was the problem, not wars that happened half a century or more before. Major didn't help either. The Tories like to destroy things that keep things good.

Who needs the police? The rich can pay for private security.
Who needs education? The rich can pay for private education.
Who needs health care? The rich can pay for private health care.

See the problem?

The problem is the welfare state. When single girls can have children without fathers and husbands, you get more violent crime as their daughters also have children without fathers....

Oh great, another thing pulled right out of the hat. Don't you think doing a little research before making ridiculous claims would be a good idea?

Teenage pregnancy by state in the US. Funny how it's the right wing states that have the most teenage pregnancy, isn't it?

Surely it'd be the other way around, wouldn't right wing states give teenage mothers LESS MONEY?

Moron....out of wedlock birth rates are highest in the Black community, the community with the highest incarceration rates and the highest gun murder rates....are you really this dense? The Border states....Hispanic out of wedlock birth rates.....

77% black births to single moms, 49% for Hispanic immigrants

77% black births to single moms, 49% for Hispanic immigrants

-------
The National Center for Health Statistics said that in 2015, 77.3 percent of non-immigrant black births were illegitimate. The national non-immigrant average is 42 percent, and it was 30 percent for whites.

The new numbers were in a Center for Immigration Studies analysis on the births to immigrants. That total is 32.7 percent, but to Hispanic immigrants it is 48.9 percent, according to Steven Camarota, the director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies.
---

There is good evidence that children born to unmarried parents are at higher risk of dropping out of high school, having run-ins with the law, and other negative social outcomes. This maybe especially true for children born to immigrants because of the challenges associated with adjusting to life in their parents' adopted country.

Fuck off with your insults. I'm not responding to your posts when you decide that your argument is to insult people. You're talking about gun control, not pokemon. Grow the fuck up.