CDZ gun magazine bullet limits...they only effect law abiding gun owners so why do we need them.

[alang1216]

and not having buildings over 2 stories will prevent some, not having trains will prevent others, not having prescription and over the counter drugs will prevent others............

Would you remove the fences that keep people from jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge? How many people would you be willing to let die to ensure there are no restrictions on your precious 2nd? Rights have value but so do lives, IMHO.

 

[2aguy]

Gun control would have no effect on the people who used guns..they would just use something else.

The evidence points exactly the other way.

Not really since half of all suicides do not use guns. Anyone who wants to will still commit suicide gun or no gun

re: Anyone who wants to will still commit suicide gun or no gun
I provided links that says you're wrong. So.... Is that your gut, experience, or ideology talking, or do you have something to back up your words?

It is a fact from around the world.......Japan, no guns for civilians, higher suicide rate than us.

China, no guns for civilians, higher suicide rate than us.

South Korea, no guns for civilians...higher suicide rate than us.

France, extreme gun control...every gun control law you guys want...higher suicide rate than us.

Noted, but I think we'd both agree that there are more differences between these cultures than just guns.

No....between us and France.....or Poland?

 

[2aguy]

The evidence points exactly the other way.

Not really since half of all suicides do not use guns. Anyone who wants to will still commit suicide gun or no gun

In 2014 more than half of all suicides were non gun suicides....

Obviously they would have different solutions. But I'm still not willing to ignore 21,000 deaths if even 1/2 could be saved.

Not ignoring them either....you solution doesn't help......just like with crime...you focus on guns, not the actual problem.

Not the problem but a factor: the suicide rate decreases about 10 percent if you keep a gun in your house unloaded. And then it decreases another 10 percent if you keep it locked and unloaded, and then another 10 percent if you keep it locked, unloaded, and keep the ammunition locked somewhere else. If you prolong the time that it takes someone to kill themselves, there’s more time for them to change their minds.

Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack and to save lives, many times even stopping mass public shooters 1,500,000 times a year......

1,500,000 vs. 21,000

The number isn't even close,and since they can commit suicide without guns there is no point to your argument.

 

[2aguy]

and not having buildings over 2 stories will prevent some, not having trains will prevent others, not having prescription and over the counter drugs will prevent others............

Would you remove the fences that keep people from jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge? How many people would you be willing to let die to ensure there are no restrictions on your precious 2nd? Rights have value but so do lives, IMHO.

Nope......those fences do not violate anyones Rights........

Guns save more lives than they take in this country.....

1,500,000 defensive gun uses vs. 8,124 gun murders in 2014.......

Again...the numbers are against you...and the gun murder rate went down as more Americans have guns in their homes and on their hips.

 

[2aguy]

The evidence points exactly the other way.

Not really since half of all suicides do not use guns. Anyone who wants to will still commit suicide gun or no gun

In 2014 more than half of all suicides were non gun suicides....

Obviously they would have different solutions. But I'm still not willing to ignore 21,000 deaths if even 1/2 could be saved.

Not ignoring them either....you solution doesn't help......just like with crime...you focus on guns, not the actual problem.

Not the problem but a factor: the suicide rate decreases about 10 percent if you keep a gun in your house unloaded. And then it decreases another 10 percent if you keep it locked and unloaded, and then another 10 percent if you keep it locked, unloaded, and keep the ammunition locked somewhere else. If you prolong the time that it takes someone to kill themselves, there’s more time for them to change their minds.

And if you remove prescription drugs from a home you save even more lives....someone intent on suicide will commit suicide....

357,000,000 guns in private hands and 21,000 people decide to kill themselves.....guns are not the issue....mental health care is how you stop it.....

 

[2aguy]

and not having buildings over 2 stories will prevent some, not having trains will prevent others, not having prescription and over the counter drugs will prevent others............

Would you remove the fences that keep people from jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge? How many people would you be willing to let die to ensure there are no restrictions on your precious 2nd? Rights have value but so do lives, IMHO.

How many people are you willing to let die out of the 1,500,0000 Americans who use guns each year to stop violent criminal attack? In an attempt to stop people who are going to commit suicide by their own hand, which will fail...because more than half of the suicides in 2014 were done without guns........

1,500,000 violent crimes stopped and lives saved vs. 21,000 self inflicted death.....

 

[Skull Pilot]

Gun control would have no effect on the people who used guns..they would just use something else.

The evidence points exactly the other way.

Not really since half of all suicides do not use guns. Anyone who wants to will still commit suicide gun or no gun

re: Anyone who wants to will still commit suicide gun or no gun
I provided links that says you're wrong. So.... Is that your gut, experience, or ideology talking, or do you have something to back up your words?

What links?

 

[Skull Pilot]

The evidence points exactly the other way.

Not really since half of all suicides do not use guns. Anyone who wants to will still commit suicide gun or no gun

In 2014 more than half of all suicides were non gun suicides....

Obviously they would have different solutions. But I'm still not willing to ignore 21,000 deaths if even 1/2 could be saved.

Not ignoring them either....you solution doesn't help......just like with crime...you focus on guns, not the actual problem.

Not the problem but a factor: the suicide rate decreases about 10 percent if you keep a gun in your house unloaded. And then it decreases another 10 percent if you keep it locked and unloaded, and then another 10 percent if you keep it locked, unloaded, and keep the ammunition locked somewhere else. If you prolong the time that it takes someone to kill themselves, there’s more time for them to change their minds.

There is still no reason to to tell anyone they can't have a gun because you think it might prevent a suicide.

Aside from the fact that you have no business telling anyone whether they should live or die.

 

[Skull Pilot]

and not having buildings over 2 stories will prevent some, not having trains will prevent others, not having prescription and over the counter drugs will prevent others............

Would you remove the fences that keep people from jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge? How many people would you be willing to let die to ensure there are no restrictions on your precious 2nd? Rights have value but so do lives, IMHO.

How many people are you willing to let die out of the 1,500,0000 Americans who use guns each year to stop violent criminal attack? In an attempt to stop people who are going to commit suicide by their own hand, which will fail...because more than half of the suicides in 2014 were done without guns........

1,500,000 violent crimes stopped and lives saved vs. 21,000 self inflicted death.....

Equating someone's choice to die with a violent crime is just another way to corrupt the argument.

There is absolutely no relation between suicide and gun crime

 

[Skull Pilot]

and not having buildings over 2 stories will prevent some, not having trains will prevent others, not having prescription and over the counter drugs will prevent others............

Would you remove the fences that keep people from jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge? How many people would you be willing to let die to ensure there are no restrictions on your precious 2nd? Rights have value but so do lives, IMHO.

Let die?

I have no responsibility for anyone who commits suicide.
That is their choice not mine.

It's not up to me to save everyone. I have an obligation to my wife and no one else. The fact that you think I should compromise my ability to defend her from possible harm with the best means possible so someone might be prevented from committing suicide of their own free will tells me that you really don't want anyone to have a gun and that even though we have all the reasonable restrictions you can think of for law abiding people they will never be enough for you and your ilk.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

and not having buildings over 2 stories will prevent some, not having trains will prevent others, not having prescription and over the counter drugs will prevent others............

Would you remove the fences that keep people from jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge? How many people would you be willing to let die to ensure there are no restrictions on your precious 2nd? Rights have value but so do lives, IMHO.

If 50M Americans chose to use a gun to kill 50M other Americans TOMORROW, I would STILL object to you removing MY rights based on what other CHOSE to do.


GOT IT? Good.

 

[alang1216]

and not having buildings over 2 stories will prevent some, not having trains will prevent others, not having prescription and over the counter drugs will prevent others............

Would you remove the fences that keep people from jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge? How many people would you be willing to let die to ensure there are no restrictions on your precious 2nd? Rights have value but so do lives, IMHO.

If 50M Americans chose to use a gun to kill 50M other Americans TOMORROW, I would STILL object to you removing MY rights based on what other CHOSE to do.


GOT IT? Good.

Got it. Your right to a gun is more important than the lives of 50 million people. That sounds fair and balanced to me.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

and not having buildings over 2 stories will prevent some, not having trains will prevent others, not having prescription and over the counter drugs will prevent others............

Would you remove the fences that keep people from jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge? How many people would you be willing to let die to ensure there are no restrictions on your precious 2nd? Rights have value but so do lives, IMHO.

If 50M Americans chose to use a gun to kill 50M other Americans TOMORROW, I would STILL object to you removing MY rights based on what other CHOSE to do.


GOT IT? Good.

Got it. Your right to a gun is more important than the lives of 50 million people. That sounds fair and balanced to me.

Yep

Same as if 50M Americans were caught publishing child porn, I wouldn't allow that to be used as an excuse to take away my 1st Amendment rights.


See how that works?

 

[alang1216]

and not having buildings over 2 stories will prevent some, not having trains will prevent others, not having prescription and over the counter drugs will prevent others............

Would you remove the fences that keep people from jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge? How many people would you be willing to let die to ensure there are no restrictions on your precious 2nd? Rights have value but so do lives, IMHO.

If 50M Americans chose to use a gun to kill 50M other Americans TOMORROW, I would STILL object to you removing MY rights based on what other CHOSE to do.


GOT IT? Good.

Got it. Your right to a gun is more important than the lives of 50 million people. That sounds fair and balanced to me.

Yep

Same as if 50M Americans were caught publishing child porn, I wouldn't allow that to be used as an excuse to take away my 1st Amendment rights.


See how that works?

I see. You value human life the same as you do child porn. Unfortunately for you, your 1st Amendment rights have already been infringed since they don't allow you to publish child porn. Sorry to be the one to break it to you.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

and not having buildings over 2 stories will prevent some, not having trains will prevent others, not having prescription and over the counter drugs will prevent others............

Would you remove the fences that keep people from jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge? How many people would you be willing to let die to ensure there are no restrictions on your precious 2nd? Rights have value but so do lives, IMHO.

If 50M Americans chose to use a gun to kill 50M other Americans TOMORROW, I would STILL object to you removing MY rights based on what other CHOSE to do.


GOT IT? Good.

Got it. Your right to a gun is more important than the lives of 50 million people. That sounds fair and balanced to me.

Yep

Same as if 50M Americans were caught publishing child porn, I wouldn't allow that to be used as an excuse to take away my 1st Amendment rights.


See how that works?

I see. You value human life the same as you do child porn. Unfortunately for you, your 1st Amendment rights have already been infringed since they don't allow you to publish child porn. Sorry to be the one to break it to you.

You're very good at being wrong.

My first Amendment rights do NOT allow me to abuse another person. Just like my second Amendment rights do not. So , since children can't consent , I can't make porn with them. Likewise, I can't use a firearm to take the life of another person. That doesn't negate what I CAN do though.

 

[alang1216]

You're very good at being wrong.

I don't question your rights, only your values.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

You're very good at being wrong.

I don't question your rights, only your values.

My values have nothing to do with the conversation. I refuse to give up my rights. PERIOD

 

[alang1216]

My values have nothing to do with the conversation. I refuse to give up my rights. PERIOD

On the contrary, you value your rights, that is why you refuse to give them up. In fact, as you've said, you value them more you value human life. You can give up your life for your rights, many good people did just that to give you your 2nd amendment right, but I don't think it is moral to ask others to give up their lives for your rights. Those are my values.

 

[2aguy]

My values have nothing to do with the conversation. I refuse to give up my rights. PERIOD

On the contrary, you value your rights, that is why you refuse to give them up. In fact, as you've said, you value them more you value human life. You can give up your life for your rights, many good people did just that to give you your 2nd amendment right, but I don't think it is moral to ask others to give up their lives for your rights. Those are my values.

No one is giving up their rights for the 2nd Amendment.......criminals killing people has nothing to do with our right to keep and bear arms.......Americans use guns to save lives 1,500,000 times a year.....according to the Department of Justice.......so guns in the hands of normal, law abiding, good people save far more lives than they take when they are misused, and used illegally.......

You are obviously just trying to cause trouble.....you should stop.

 

[alang1216]

No one is giving up their rights for the 2nd Amendment.......criminals killing people has nothing to do with our right to keep and bear arms.......Americans use guns to save lives 1,500,000 times a year.....according to the Department of Justice.......so guns in the hands of normal, law abiding, good people save far more lives than they take when they are misused, and used illegally.......

You are obviously just trying to cause trouble.....you should stop.

You've used the 1.5 m DGU number before but I don't recall you citing the DoJ. I know the Kleck survey found a large number but I can't find any DoJ survey, only a Kleck citation. Is the 1.5 m number Kleck's or not?

Regardless, I find it somewhat hypocritical that you accept this survey but not previous ones we discussed. As I recall you said people lie to anonymous callers. True or do you want to have it both ways?