Gun registration v Plant registration...

[eflatminor]

Owning a gun isn't a human right.

Self protection is. A firearm is a the means by which we most commonly exercise that right.

Further, owning a firearm most certainly is an inalienable right under the Constitution, which means the government can have no say in a person's right to arm himself without due process.

Neat. Still isn't a basic human right.

Ah...the "because I say so" argument. Works every time...

 

[eflatminor]

Just because something is in our bill of rights, that doesn't make it a basic human right. The fact that this needs to be explained is amazing.

It most certainly means that such rights are not to be infringed by government. Of course, we don't need a Bill of Rights for that...there is NO enumerated power giving government the right to restrict firearm ownership without due process. Sorry, there just isn't.

Awesome. Still doesn't mean gun ownership is a basic human right. None of what you said changes that, but please continue.

Actually it does. If you agree that self protection is a basic human right (if you don't, there's nothing more anyone can say), then we must also accept that one must also have the means to carry out that right, or it isn't a right at all. Firearms are but one example of a means of self protection. When those seeking to infringe my rights are armed, I must be allowed to arm myself to practice self defense. It is therefore a fundamental, basic human right, which is why it is codified in the Bill of Rights.

To follow your logic would be to say that it is a basic human right that people should be allowed to expand their minds, to learn more, to educate and seek to better themselves...but that doesn't mean they should have free access to books. Now that would be crazy, wouldn't it?

The right to read a book is every bit the basic human right as the right to possess the means to self defense.

 

[RDD_1210]

Self protection is. A firearm is a the means by which we most commonly exercise that right.

Further, owning a firearm most certainly is an inalienable right under the Constitution, which means the government can have no say in a person's right to arm himself without due process.

Neat. Still isn't a basic human right.

Ah...the "because I say so" argument. Works every time...

Has nothing to do with "because I say so". I posted a definition of "human rights". Gun ownership doesn't apply.

 

[RDD_1210]

It most certainly means that such rights are not to be infringed by government. Of course, we don't need a Bill of Rights for that...there is NO enumerated power giving government the right to restrict firearm ownership without due process. Sorry, there just isn't.

Awesome. Still doesn't mean gun ownership is a basic human right. None of what you said changes that, but please continue.

Actually it does. If you agree that self protection is a basic human right (if you don't, there's nothing more anyone can say), then we must also accept that one must also have the means to carry out that right, or it isn't a right at all. Firearms are but one example of a means of self protection. When those seeking to infringe my rights are armed, I must be allowed to arm myself to practice self defense. It is therefore a fundamental, basic human right, which is why it is codified in the Bill of Rights.

To follow your logic would be to say that it is a basic human right that people should be allowed to expand their minds, to learn more, to educate and seek to better themselves...but that doesn't mean they should have free access to books. Now that would be crazy, wouldn't it?

The right to read a book is every bit the basic human right as the right to possess the means to self defense.

Free access to books also is not a basic human right. But good example otherwise. Perhaps you don't understand the topic.

 

[eflatminor]

Neat. Still isn't a basic human right.

Ah...the "because I say so" argument. Works every time...

Has nothing to do with "because I say so". I posted a definition of "human rights". Gun ownership doesn't apply.

You saying self defense is not a basic human right? You'll have to back that up...

And if you agree that is a right, well, see my post in above. Sorry, you're wrong, the means to defend oneself is as basic a right as the defense itself.

 

[eflatminor]

Free access to books also is not a basic human right.

And there you have it folks. The mind of tyranny embodied in a single sentence.

Wow, just wow.

 

[M14 Shooter]

a human being (that wasnt a slave) would not need a wikipedia definition to understand what their human rights are because they would inherently just know such
i admit that the right to guns is an odd right if examined from an extremest view (especially when compared to the ever present right to grow plants etc), but when looked at from the context of the era of guns ruling the day as it was when the bill of rights was written (and as it still is today), its easy to see why it has been acknowledged and declared a human right in the bill of rights...

Just because something is in our bill of rights, that doesn't make it a basic human right. The fact that this needs to be explained is amazing.

It most certainly means that such rights are not to be infringed by government. Of course, we don't need a Bill of Rights for that...there is NO enumerated power giving government the right to restrict firearm ownership without due process. Sorry, there just isn't.

Basic fact:
The constitution does not grant the right to arms,it protects it.
The right to arms, then, predates the constitution and therefore exists in its absence.
As such, the right to arms is as "human" as the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

 

[DNAprotection]

You have no clue what human rights are, do you?

"They are "commonly understood as inalienable fundamental rights to which a person is inherently entitled simply because she or he is a human being."[2] Human rights are thus conceived as universal (applicable everywhere) and egalitarian (the same for everyone). "

Human rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please get a clue.

a human being (that wasnt a slave) would not need a wikipedia definition to understand what their human rights are because they would inherently just know such
i admit that the right to guns is an odd right if examined from an extremest view (especially when compared to the ever present right to grow plants etc), but when looked at from the context of the era of guns ruling the day as it was when the bill of rights was written (and as it still is today), its easy to see why it has been acknowledged and declared a human right in the bill of rights...

Just because something is in our bill of rights, that doesn't make it a basic human right. The fact that this needs to be explained is amazing.

its not amazing at all, its rather simple really, from your (mis)understanding of the founding documents of this country, you believe that you have 'constitutional rights' and thats consistent with most other sheeple who get everything they know from tv lol
psst...the documents were and are 'human rights' documents...

Printer-Friendly Version
The Declaration of Independence: A Transcription

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends,.."

 

[DNAprotection]

If you are against gun registration while at the same time supporting the cannabis laws in Wa.Co. = plant registration, please explain...
If you are against gun registration and yet support the prohibition of the coca plant or the poppy plant or the cannabis plant, please explain...
Do you think it should be an added special crime to have a gun and a plant at the same time?
Sincerely seeking clarification, thanks,
dna

The farm industry is regulated by the gov with the support of big farma

I'll assume you are against regulating guns, as you should be

of course i'm against regulating guns, but i am also aware of the commerce clause and so if you are selling something as a retailer then the corpsgov does have authority (though obviously abused) to protect your human right to engage in commerce...but if for your own use then no registration of guns or plants...

 

[RDD_1210]

Free access to books also is not a basic human right.

And there you have it folks. The mind of tyranny embodied in a single sentence.

Wow, just wow.

LOL, it's not. Do you understand what basic human rights are?

 

[DNAprotection]

Free access to books also is not a basic human right.

And there you have it folks. The mind of tyranny embodied in a single sentence.

Wow, just wow.

LOL, it's not. Do you understand what basic human rights are?

lol it is clearly you (who needs wikipedia to define 4u) that has no true understanding of human rights or why the constitution exists...
dear lord lol heres a clue if you missed it, they wrote it over 200 years ago so you would know why and what the constitution is

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends,.."

 

[RDD_1210]

And there you have it folks. The mind of tyranny embodied in a single sentence.

Wow, just wow.

LOL, it's not. Do you understand what basic human rights are?

lol it is clearly you (who needs wikipedia to define 4u) that has no true understanding of human rights or why the constitution exists...
dear lord lol heres a clue if you missed it, they wrote it over 200 years ago so you would know why and what the constitution is

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends,.."

LOL. Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Nowhere in there does it say....owning guns is a basic human right.

 

[DNAprotection]

LOL, it's not. Do you understand what basic human rights are?

lol it is clearly you (who needs wikipedia to define 4u) that has no true understanding of human rights or why the constitution exists...
dear lord lol heres a clue if you missed it, they wrote it over 200 years ago so you would know why and what the constitution is

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends,.."

LOL. Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Nowhere in there does it say....owning guns is a basic human right.

well clearly your not good at spotting the obvious hehe...here i'll isolate the operative words for ya this time:

and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them,

We hold these truths to be self-evident,


seriously its like i'm talking to KNB or KBN or whatever that other not ready for prime time robots handle is lol...

 

[RDD_1210]

lol it is clearly you (who needs wikipedia to define 4u) that has no true understanding of human rights or why the constitution exists...
dear lord lol heres a clue if you missed it, they wrote it over 200 years ago so you would know why and what the constitution is

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends,.."

LOL. Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Nowhere in there does it say....owning guns is a basic human right.

well clearly your not good at spotting the obvious hehe...here i'll isolate the operative words for ya this time:

and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them,

We hold these truths to be self-evident,


seriously its like i'm talking to KNB or KBN or whatever that other not ready for prime time robots handle is lol...

Let me know when you're done with your rant. That way I can go back to laughing that you somehow think owning a firearm is a basic human right.

 

[eflatminor]

LOL, it's not. Do you understand what basic human rights are?

lol it is clearly you (who needs wikipedia to define 4u) that has no true understanding of human rights or why the constitution exists...
dear lord lol heres a clue if you missed it, they wrote it over 200 years ago so you would know why and what the constitution is

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends,.."

LOL. Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Nowhere in there does it say....owning guns is a basic human right.

My God, are you really this ignorant? The document does NOT list every right! We're born with rights that can only be infringed upon by government with due process. Life, Liberty, etc are only listed as a few of the rights. You're thinking about it 100% backwards!!! Government doesn't grant rights, they can only take them away, again, with due process. And the right to bear arms is one right they ABSOLUTELY cannot take away, which is why we find it codified in the Bill of Rights.

Your ignorance as to how this works is astounding.

 

[eflatminor]

Free access to books also is not a basic human right.

And there you have it folks. The mind of tyranny embodied in a single sentence.

Wow, just wow.

LOL, it's not. Do you understand what basic human rights are?

I absolutely do. And have explain with great specificity why things like self defense and the seeking of knowledge and the means to pursue those activities are indeed basic human rights guaranteed in the Constitution.

So far, all you've given is us "They're not because I say so". It's really pathetic.

 

[eflatminor]

LOL. Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Nowhere in there does it say....owning guns is a basic human right.

well clearly your not good at spotting the obvious hehe...here i'll isolate the operative words for ya this time:

and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them,

We hold these truths to be self-evident,


seriously its like i'm talking to KNB or KBN or whatever that other not ready for prime time robots handle is lol...

Let me know when you're done with your rant. That way I can go back to laughing that you somehow think owning a firearm is a basic human right.

We have yet to see you back up your claim with anything approaching facts, logic or reason. How about it? Care to debate like an adult?

 

[DNAprotection]

LOL. Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Nowhere in there does it say....owning guns is a basic human right.

well clearly your not good at spotting the obvious hehe...here i'll isolate the operative words for ya this time:

and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them,

We hold these truths to be self-evident,


seriously its like i'm talking to KNB or KBN or whatever that other not ready for prime time robots handle is lol...

Let me know when you're done with your rant. That way I can go back to laughing that you somehow think owning a firearm is a basic human right.

wow lol...ok one more time in the name of redundancy...
1. constitution is clearly a declaration of human rights...evidenced clearly in the declaration of independence lol...
1.(a) in other words the document does not 'grant' rights or create 'constitutional rights', it seeks to protect rights held in perpetuity by the people, or natural born rights etc...
2. it specifically enumerates some (but not all) of those human rights...
3. it also makes clear that whatever is or is not enumerated is not meant to disparage other human rights held by the people...
4. it creates gov to protect said rights...
4.(a) even the human rights of idiots who are oblivious to sections 1-4 above

 

[M14 Shooter]

lol it is clearly you (who needs wikipedia to define 4u) that has no true understanding of human rights or why the constitution exists...
dear lord lol heres a clue if you missed it, they wrote it over 200 years ago so you would know why and what the constitution is

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends,.."

LOL. Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Nowhere in there does it say....owning guns is a basic human right.

My God, are you really this ignorant?

He is, and willfully so.

Tf you don't feed the troll, he will go away.

 

[RDD_1210]

lol it is clearly you (who needs wikipedia to define 4u) that has no true understanding of human rights or why the constitution exists...
dear lord lol heres a clue if you missed it, they wrote it over 200 years ago so you would know why and what the constitution is

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends,.."

LOL. Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Nowhere in there does it say....owning guns is a basic human right.

My God, are you really this ignorant? The document does NOT list every right! We're born with rights that can only be infringed upon by government with due process. Life, Liberty, etc are only listed as a few of the rights. You're thinking about it 100% backwards!!! Government doesn't grant rights, they can only take them away, again, with due process. And the right to bear arms is one right they ABSOLUTELY cannot take away, which is why we find it codified in the Bill of Rights.

Your ignorance as to how this works is astounding.

Keep at it sparky! You're really convincing.