Guns and Mass Murder ~ Time for Action

[2aguy]

When you actually propose "common sense" legislation...please...let us fucking know....up till now you just throw out the words..."Common sense gun control" then dance away without stating what that is....since we have already shown how stupid your previous suggestions are....

Wow. here has been lots of common sense legislation that the NRA lobbied against & the Their lapdog Republicans shit down.

Did you get all that blood washed off your hands?

Wrong.....legislation that doesn't do shit to criminals or mass shooters and only attacks law abiding gun owners gets voted down....your phobia about normal people owning guns doesn't trump the 2nd Amendment....

So, making assault type rifles illegal does not get a criminal arrested if he is discovered with one? The exact same thing that would happen top a law abiding citizen if he was caught.

You have no logic. You make the dumbest arguments ever.

When you support policies & put legislators in office that refuse to ban these weapons, blood is indeed on your hands.

which one of these is an "assault type" rifle

this one

or this one

Which one is a semi? Form doesn't matter.

Yep.....you want to ban all weapons that are semi automatic.....which is pretty much all of them.....good to know, and this is why we don't trust you....

 

[2aguy]

Governor Abbott's prayers and mine have not worked.

NRA = Never Really Apologetic, Never Really Accountable.

2nd commandment > 2nd amendment.

This can't go on. I own weapons, I am CCW, and I am not the problem.

The problem is that crazy people and those who can't get on airlines because of lists can own weapons.

This guy was shot by a civilian AFTER he fled the church, so more guns in the hands of civilians is not the answer.

This has to be addressed, and Wild West Approach ain't working.

Start with open carry, locking trigger guards and very high coverage liability insurance.

I posted this earlier. There are so many gun threads, makes sense to c/p rather than type it all out again.

I recently read that one of the Columbine shooters said they wanted to set a record. Many of the mass shooters want the same thing. That attitude evolved over a period of time. Until we are able to evolve, mass shooters will continue.

There's also the belief that a gun is the preferred way to settle even the most minor of disagreements. Its utterly stupid and self-defeating but the gun nuts brag that 'if he tried that with me, I'd blow him away'.

Third is the very strong desire to be Mighty Mouse. Read the posts here. There are many who believe that they will have the opportunity to prove they are real men, prove that carrying a gun is not as completely idiotic as we all know it is.

There are actually people who join the military because they really want to kill and they hope their military career gives them that opportunity.

Because its now so easy to get any gun you want, I believe mass shootings and individual shootings are here to stay.

What we need to do is mitigate the harm that they do.

The things that seem very obvious to me are locking trigger guards, requiring substantial insurance for all gun owners, end assault type rifles and huge capacity magazines (the Texass shooter was able to expend 800 rounds per second) and

It would take time but its doable.

Problem is, the NRA lobby works for gun makers. All they care about is selling their product and the gun buyers don't care about gun deaths.

As with everything, follow the money.

Trigger lock mandates are, in fact, unconstitutional...already ruled so in Heller. And liability insurance...sorry, that would be a Poll Tax on the Right to bear arms....and those too are unconstituitional......

 

[2aguy]

No one's freedom of speech is actionable because snowflakes are afraid of sensible gun regulation.

When you show us some sensible gun regulation we might support it.....

This guy got his gun because a clerk failed to press "Send" on his paperwork....there is no need for more laws to tell the next clerk to press "send."

 

[JakeStarkey]

I see 2aguy is incorrectly interpreting Heller.

 

[2aguy]

And a hundred killed on the highways today by the car loons and pedalphiles. Happens every day and the media censors it while shootings are headlines.

We are doing things to reduce car fatalities

Why can't we pass gun legislation?

We already have the laws we need to reduce gun fatalities.....we lock up gun criminals, and then you guys let them back out....or you fail to press "send" on the criminal records of people who can't buy guns....

 

[JakeStarkey]

Thank heavens the wanks like 2aguy are not in charge of anything except a car wash . . . which is regulated.

 

[2aguy]

I see 2aguy is incorrectly interpreting Heller.

Nope....Heller is very clear.....you may not like that...but the truth is the truth...Heller does not say you can take as many guns as you want as long as you leave us a one shot, .22 caliber pistol....sorry......twit.

 

[2aguy]

Too late for gun control. The gun nuts won a long time ago ...

Yeah ... The American Revolution worked out pretty well, all things considered ...

.

The idea that all gun owners are gun nuts is a fallacy.

I own guns. I don't need an assault type rifle & I don't need to tote a loaded firearm everywhere I go. I recognize the need for an assault rifle ban & better background checks. I believe crazy people should not be armed.

Don't be such an ass to confuse that with military & law enforcement needs.

The guy who stopped the church shooter needed his AR-15 civilian self defense rifle.....and he saved lives.....likely at least 26 lives with it....

 

[2aguy]

We are doing things to reduce car fatalities
Why can't we pass gun legislation?

We can pass gun legislation ... And we have on many occasions.
When will you accept that we are no more willing to stop owning the firearms we are allowed to under the Constitution ... Than we are to stop driving ...

When you add the fact driving is a privilege and not a right ... Well, that addresses an entirely different set of circumstances.

.

When? When was gun legislation passed?

Gun ownership is a right therefore we can't do anything about nutjobs grabbing semi-automatic rifles with large capacity clips & killing children?

Really. You use the "It's a right" excuse?

The 2nd Amendment says you can be armed. Here's a single shot 22 rifle. You are now armed. STFU.

Yep....you asswipes want all the guns you can grab......

What does a standard issue magazine have to do with anything....they make no difference in mass shootings or crime and may very well save the lives of law abiding gun owners...oh...that's why you hate them.....a law abiding gun owner may need one to stay alive....

 

[2aguy]

We are doing things to reduce car fatalities
Why can't we pass gun legislation?

We can pass gun legislation ... And we have on many occasions.
When will you accept that we are no more willing to stop owning the firearms we are allowed to under the Constitution ... Than we are to stop driving ...

When you add the fact driving is a privilege and not a right ... Well, that addresses an entirely different set of circumstances.

.

When? When was gun legislation passed?

Gun ownership is a right therefore we can't do anything about nutjobs grabbing semi-automatic rifles with large capacity clips & killing children?

Really. You use the "It's a right" excuse?

The 2nd Amendment says you can be armed. Here's a single shot 22 rifle. You are now armed. STFU.

We know you want our rifles....you also want our magazines...in neither case do you have facts or truth to support your paranoia....

Magazines...who needs them?

The Costs and Consequences of Gun Control



In 2012, Arizona repealed its limitations on magazine capacity for hunters precisely because of the possible need for self-defense against unexpected encounters with cartel gangs in the southern part of the state.36 In that region, it is well known that drug traffickers and human traffickers use the same wild and lonely lands that hunters do.



---

For the firearms that are most often chosen for self-defense, the claim that any magazine holding more than 10 (or 7) rounds is “high capacity” or “large” is incorrect. The term “high-capacity magazine” might have a legitimate meaning when it refers to a magazine that extends far beyond that intended for the gun’s optimal operation. For example, although a semiautomatic handgun can accept a 40-round magazine, such a magazine typically extends far beneath the gun grip, and it is therefore impractical to use with a concealed-carry permit. For most handguns, a 40-round magazine could be called “high-capacity.”

------

The persons who have the most need for actual high-capacity magazines are those who would have great difficulty changing a magazine — such as elderly persons or persons with disabilities. For an able-bodied person, changing a magazine only takes a few seconds. Typically a gun’s magazine-release button is near the trigger. To change a magazine, the person holding the gun presses the magazine-release button with a thumb or finger. The magazine instantly drops to the floor. While one hand was pushing the magazine-release button, the other hand can grab a fresh magazine (which might be carried in a special holster on a belt) and bring it toward the gun. The moment the old magazine drops out, a fresh one is inserted.37


-----


Although one can quickly change magazines, persons being attacked by criminals will typically prefer not to spend even a few seconds for a magazine change. The stress of being attacked usually impedes fine motor skills, making it much more difficult to insert the magazine.38 That is why many semiautomatic handguns come factory-standard with a magazine of 11 to 20 rounds. Thus, a ban on magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds means a ban on some of the most common and most useful magazines purchased for purposes of recreational target practice and self-defense.

Why might someone need a factory-standard 17-round magazine for a common 9mm handgun? As noted, standard-capacity magazines can be very useful for self-defense. This is especially true if a defender faces multiple attackers, an attacker is wearing heavy clothing or body armor, an attacker who is turbo-charged by methamphetamine or cocaine, or an attacker who poses an active threat from behind cover. In stressful circumstances, police as well as civilians often miss when firing a handgun even at close range, so having the extra rounds can be crucial.
It is important to consider the advantages a criminal has over his intended victims. The criminal has the element of surprise, whereas the victim is the one surprised. The criminal can decide at leisure what weaponry he will bring; whereas the victim must respond with what’s at hand at the moment of attack. A criminal can bring several guns, or lots of magazines; whereas the victim will usually have on hand, at most, a single defensive gun with only as much ammunition as is in that gun. Thus, legislation confining law-abiding victims to magazines of 10 or fewer magnifies the criminal’s advantage over his intended victim
Violent confrontations are unpredictable; for example, if a person is fighting against one or two perpetrators, he may not know if there is an additional, hidden attacker. Thus, defensive gun users need to keep a reserve of ammunition. So even though armed defenders do not usually fire more than 10 shots, reducing reserve capacity (e.g., from a standard 17-round magazine to a 10-round substitute) will reduce the number of defensive shots. Fewer shots fired at the attacker reduces the risk of injury to the attacker, and thereby raises the risk of injury to the victim.
Would a Magazine Ban Be Beneficial?
The National Institute of Justice study found that the 1994-2004 federal ban on the manufacture of large magazines had no discernible benefit because the existing supply of such magazines was so vast.40

The types of criminals most likely to get into shootouts with the police or with other criminals are precisely those who are very aware of what is available on the black market. Although gun prohibitionists often link assault weapons to gang violence associated with the illegal drug trade, they miss the irony of their argument.41 They are, in effect, claiming that the very gangs operating the black market in drugs will somehow be restricted from acquiring high-capacity magazines by legislation limiting the manufacture and sale of such magazines. The claim — at least as it pertains to career criminals — is ludicrous. If gangsters can obtain all the cocaine they want, despite a century of prohibition, they will be able to obtain 15-round magazines.

What about the typical perpetrators of random mass attacks — mentally ill young men? They, too, could acquire magazines by theft, or on the black market. Given that 36 percent of American high school seniors illegally acquire and consume marijuana, it is clear that plenty of people who are not gangsters or career criminals use the black market.42 Besides that, the truly high-capacity magazines, such as a 100-round drum, are very prone to malfunction. For example, during the 2012 mass murder at the movie theater in Aurora, Colorado, the murderer’s 100-round magazine jammed, allowing people to escape.43 Hundred-round magazines are novelty items and are not standard for self-defense by civilians or police.

Advocates of a ban on standard-capacity magazines assert that while the attacker is changing the magazine, an intended victim might be able to subdue him — yet they cannot point to a single instance where this actually happened. They cite a trilogy of events that happened in Tucson, Arizona (2011), Aurora, Colorado (2012), and Newtown, Connecticut (2013). In fact, all of those events involved gun jams, not magazine changes. At Newtown, the criminal changed magazines seven times and no one escaped, but when his rifle jammed, people did escape. Clearing a gun jam takes much longer than changing a magazine. Fixing a gun jam involves all the steps of a magazine change (remove the empty magazine and insert a new one) plus all the intermediate steps of doing whatever is necessary to fix the jam. Similarly, in the Luby’s cafeteria murders (24 dead), the perpetrator replaced magazines multiple times. In the Virginia Tech murders (32 dead), the perpetrator changed magazines 17 times.44

----

When one also takes into account rifle magazines, the number of American magazines holding more than 10 rounds could be more than 100 million. That in itself is sufficient, according to the Supreme Court’s Hellerprecedent, to make the ban unconstitutional.

 

[2aguy]

Too late for gun control. The gun nuts won a long time ago ...

Yeah ... The American Revolution worked out pretty well, all things considered ...

.

The idea that all gun owners are gun nuts is a fallacy.

I own guns. I don't need an assault type rifle & I don't need to tote a loaded firearm everywhere I go. I recognize the need for an assault rifle ban & better background checks. I believe crazy people should not be armed.

Don't be such an ass to confuse that with military & law enforcement needs.

Why do you care about the lower murder rate of these rifles...if actual murder rates mattered to you they would be lower on your list.....

so...it isn't the death that concerns you...you have a paranoia about these rifles........you need psychiatric help....

Expanded Homicide Data Table 4

Rifles....374

knives....1,604

blunt objects....472

bare hands....656

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Progressive governments are History's biggest mass murderers; we can only estimate out in the tens of millions column

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I see 2aguy is incorrectly interpreting Heller.

Nope....Heller is very clear.....you may not like that...but the truth is the truth...Heller does not say you can take as many guns as you want as long as you leave us a one shot, .22 caliber pistol....sorry......twit.

They were one SCOTUS vote away from eliminating the Second Amendment.

One Vote

That's why they were crying

 

[Skull Pilot]

I'm not looking for any compromise. I'll "compromise" with my vote. No more RA bought & paid for Congressmen or Senators. If they have a top NRA rating, they aren't getting my vote.

You do that chief ... I have no intention to deny you the right to vote ... I respect your rights.

I really don't think the NRA is trying to get your vote.
I personally throw the NRA mail in the garbage ... They just ask me for money they can bribe some crooked Representative with.

If your desire is to get corruption out of Congress ... Good luck with that ... Disarming the People isn't going to help you any.

.

So, you made the leap from banning assault type rifles top disarming everyone. That is being part of the problem. I am talking about taking these weapons of mass killing off the market. I am talking about lowering the number killed.

Gun bans do not lower the murder rate

 

[RealDave]

Too late for gun control. The gun nuts won a long time ago ...

Yeah ... The American Revolution worked out pretty well, all things considered ...

.

The idea that all gun owners are gun nuts is a fallacy.

I own guns. I don't need an assault type rifle & I don't need to tote a loaded firearm everywhere I go. I recognize the need for an assault rifle ban & better background checks. I believe crazy people should not be armed.

Don't be such an ass to confuse that with military & law enforcement needs.

Why do you care about the lower murder rate of these rifles...if actual murder rates mattered to you they would be lower on your list.....

so...it isn't the death that concerns you...you have a paranoia about these rifles........you need psychiatric help....

Expanded Homicide Data Table 4

Rifles....374

knives....1,604

blunt objects....472

bare hands....656

So you are back to that stupid argument.

Is that all you have?


" Duh Duh Duh knives kill more duh duh duh."

Knives have a purpose outside of killing.

Assault type rifles don't.

 

[RealDave]

I'm not looking for any compromise. I'll "compromise" with my vote. No more RA bought & paid for Congressmen or Senators. If they have a top NRA rating, they aren't getting my vote.

You do that chief ... I have no intention to deny you the right to vote ... I respect your rights.

I really don't think the NRA is trying to get your vote.
I personally throw the NRA mail in the garbage ... They just ask me for money they can bribe some crooked Representative with.

If your desire is to get corruption out of Congress ... Good luck with that ... Disarming the People isn't going to help you any.

.

So, you made the leap from banning assault type rifles top disarming everyone. That is being part of the problem. I am talking about taking these weapons of mass killing off the market. I am talking about lowering the number killed.

Gun bans do not lower the murder rate

Not talking aboutr trhe urder rate. Talking azbout mass killing stustions.

I have a question. If Assault type weapons do not give these killers a higher death toll, why do you want them?

 

[OffensivelyOpenMinded]

This is the result of a bureaucratic fuck-up. Instead of punishing the vast majority of sane and law abiding gun owners...how about we hold the government bureaucrat that slacked on their job accountable for once? New law, if bureaucrats do not do their job and someone windes up getting weapons that shouldn't, 20 years automatic prison sentence for all gubmint stooges involved.

 

[BlackSand]

So you are back to that stupid argument.

Is that all you have?


" Duh Duh Duh knives kill more duh duh duh."

Knives have a purpose outside of killing.

Assault type rifles don't.

Talk about stupid arguments ...

Besides the fact that assault weapons can be pretty good at ripping up targets ... The killing part is really kind of a given.
Your problem seems to be in the failure to understand the killing part is pretty much why someone buys one.

It would be like saying ... The only practical use for a parachute is if you have/want to jump out of a plane ... Like no shit
I mean it is not like I am going to say we should ban Corvettes because they are intended to drive fast and some nutcase endangers the lives of the people on the roadway.

With people like you showing up all over the place ... I am thinking in investing in companies that make bubble wrap and duct tape.
There is going to be a run on the market when you idiots figure out you can hurt yourself falling down a flight stairs.

.

 

[RealDave]

So you are back to that stupid argument.

Is that all you have?


" Duh Duh Duh knives kill more duh duh duh."

Knives have a purpose outside of killing.

Assault type rifles don't.

Talk about stupid arguments ...

Besides the fact that assault weapons can be pretty good at ripping up targets ... The killing part is really kind of a given.
Your problem seems to be in the failure to understand the killing part is pretty much why someone buys one.

It would be like saying ... The only practical use for a parachute is if you have/want to jump out of a plane ... Like no shit
I mean it is not like I am going to say we should ban Corvettes because they are intended to drive fast and some nutcase endangers the lives of the people on the roadway.

With people like you showing up all over the place ... I am thinking in investing in companies that make bubble wrap and duct tape.
There is going to be a run on the market when you idiots figure out you can hurt yourself falling down a flight stairs.

.

So, getting jollies shooting targets can't be have with another type of rifle?

So, you think you need an assault type rifle for self protection? Or are you planning something else?

Your car analogy is stupid because people aren't buying expensive cars to run over people.

You can joke all you want but it does not change that these weapons are enabling mass killers to kill more. All your arguments are stupid & worthless & show no logic.

 

[BlackSand]

So, getting jollies shooting targets can't be have with another type of rifle?

What business is it of yours how I get my jollies ...
Do you want me to start caring about how someone gest their jollies and ignore Constitutional protections?

So, you think you need an assault type rifle for self protection? Or are you planning something else?

I am counting on my assault weapon to efficiently and effectively do exactly what it was built to do should I ever need to use it for that purpose.
As far as plans are concerned ... The plans are limited to the same degree I plan to use the fire extinguisher under the sink should the need arise.

Your car analogy is stupid because people aren't buying expensive cars to run over people

No more stupid than your suggestion people are buying assault weapons for the specific purpose to commit mass murder.
Both circumstances hinge on the stupidity or mental condition of the user ... Not the vehicle nor the firearm.

You can joke all you want but it does not change that these weapons are enabling mass killers to kill more. All your arguments are stupid & worthless & show no logic.

Only because you are incorrigible ...

.

 

[RealDave]

So, getting jollies shooting targets can't be have with another type of rifle?

What business is it of yours how I get my jollies ...
Do you want me to start caring about how someone gest their jollies and ignore Constitutional protections?

So, you think you need an assault type rifle for self protection? Or are you planning something else?

I am counting on my assault weapon to efficiently and effectively do exactly what it was built to do should I ever need to use it for that purpose.
As far as plans are concerned ... The plans are limited to the same degree I plan to use the fire extinguisher under the sink should the need arise.

Your car analogy is stupid because people aren't buying expensive cars to run over people

No more stupid than your suggestion people are buying assault weapons for the specific purpose to commit mass murder.
Both circumstances hinge on the stupidity or mental condition of the user ... Not the vehicle nor the firearm.

You can joke all you want but it does not change that these weapons are enabling mass killers to kill more. All your arguments are stupid & worthless & show no logic.

Only because you are incorrigible ...

.

No, because your arguments are stupid.