Guys, do we really need a failed state like Ukraine?

[Camp]

Can somebody explain, does the West need Ukraine for what?The state is bankrupt, all politicians corrupt, there is no law, no industry, almost nothing except whores, lazy drunken workers and thieves.It is difficult to believe that Putin needs it too.For what we must pay our taxes?
The relationship between Russia and Ukraine is damaged at least for hundred years, Ukraine will be neither EU nor NATO member, the average monthly wage is $30.
And how idiotic the West was completely destroying this relative stabile state and damaging the relationship with Russia for ever.Now we are teetering on the verge WWIII.For what?
Are we completely morons?

You should visit Ukraine, if for no other reason, just to see how stupid and uninformed your post is.

I'm a resident of Ukraine and can only see how stupid your posts are so far. Baron is absolutely right and sooner or later all the world will understand what he already understands. May be even you will, Camp.

Really, you think your country is full of whores, lazy drunken workers and thieves and there in no industry in Ukraine? Maybe you need to travel outside of your neighborhood.

 

[anotherlife]

Russia can't afford a third world war...

Russia has thousands of nukes.
Only two hundred are enough to annihilate the world.

Don't you like Mad Max?

 

[anotherlife]

Can somebody explain, does the West need Ukraine for what?The state is bankrupt, all politicians corrupt, there is no law, no industry, almost nothing except whores, lazy drunken workers and thieves.It is difficult to believe that Putin needs it too.For what we must pay our taxes?
The relationship between Russia and Ukraine is damaged at least for hundred years, Ukraine will be neither EU nor NATO member, the average monthly wage is $30.
And how idiotic the West was completely destroying this relative stabile state and damaging the relationship with Russia for ever.Now we are teetering on the verge WWIII.For what?
Are we completely morons?

You should visit Ukraine, if for no other reason, just to see how stupid and uninformed your post is.

I'm a resident of Ukraine and can only see how stupid your posts are so far. Baron is absolutely right and sooner or later all the world will understand what he already understands. May be even you will, Camp.

Really, you think your country is full of whores, lazy drunken workers and thieves and there in no industry in Ukraine? Maybe you need to travel outside of your neighborhood.

And what's wrong with whores now?

 

[I amso IR]

Can somebody explain, does the West need Ukraine for what?The state is bankrupt, all politicians corrupt, there is no law, no industry, almost nothing except whores, lazy drunken workers and thieves.It is difficult to believe that Putin needs it too.For what we must pay our taxes?
The relationship between Russia and Ukraine is damaged at least for hundred years, Ukraine will be neither EU nor NATO member, the average monthly wage is $30.
And how idiotic the West was completely destroying this relative stabile state and damaging the relationship with Russia for ever.Now we are teetering on the verge WWIII.For what?
Are we completely morons?

The United States and Russia will always need a piece of real estate to fight over. What better place to do it. It is either the Ukraine or Chicago. Take your pick. Jeesh, I thought everyone knew that!

 

[Stratford57]

The West shall have friendship with Russia instead of WWIII. Only Trump can reestablish a good relationship to Russia.Better to have Russians as friend as to pay for a corrupted bunch of criminals in Ukraine.

Forbes: Are Russia And The U.S. Starting To See Eye-To-Eye?

Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov, who has been in the unsavory position of having to explain to the Western world Russia’s actions in Ukraine for the past two years, said he and Kerry “agreed to organize a regular review of our relations, in order to find mutually acceptable solutions on a number of issues,” the State Department published on their website last Thursday. Lavrov said that Russia and U.S. talks were a positive for world affairs, adding that they had “direct influence on the efforts of the international community to settle many issues.”

Lavrov’s comments are welcome news for those in the more realist camp of U.S. foreign policy that do not long for the Cold War. Global investors and corporations, too, are aching to get on more normal footing. For example, ExxonMobil XOM +0.04% has a $700 million joint venture with Rosneft frozen due to sanctions. The U.S. sanctioned American oil and gas companies from conducting technological transfers and drilling operations with the Russians because of the government’s involvement in the east Ukraine separatist movement.

The chilling of relations, largely due to Ukraine-based sanctions but also due to Washington’s concern that the Russians were throwing a wrench in their regime changing Syria machine, led Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev to solemnly say that a new Cold War was in the works. He singled out an ever-expanding NATO. Speaking at the Munich Security Conference less than five weeks ago, Medvedev said, “NATO’s policy with regard to Russia has remained unfriendly and opaque. One could go as far as to say that we have slid back to a new Cold War. Almost everyday we are called one of the most terrible threats either to NATO as a whole or to Europe, or to the United States,” he said.

Are Russia And The U.S. Starting To See Eye-To-Eye?

 

[Stratford57]

Not only Ukraine is a failed state but a very “reliable” partner and real fun to deal with. Croatia had a good chance to figure it out.

"In fact, Ukraine is becoming or maybe has already become a failed state. It is an impoverished kleptocracy ruined by corrupted bureaucrats and oligarchs," . Juncker said.
'Big Mistake': Ukraine Was Forced to Choose Between Russia, EU

2 days ago: a big scandal is shaking up Croatia these days. Here's the low-down. In 2013 Croatia paid $20 million to Ukraine to refurbish its seven MiG-21 fighters and to purchase a further five which would likewise be overhauled.

Ukraine finished deliveries of the 12 fighters one year behind the schedule in July 2015.

However, eight months after receiving the refurbished planes Croatia says that of the twelve planes only three remain flight-worthy and five have been pulled out of service altogether.

When examining the five newly-purchased planes the Croats discovered that the serial numbers have been stamped over and do not correspond to the identification numbers of the aircraft that Ukraine originally offered.

The planes that Croatia actually received are far older, and either correspond to Yemeni MiG-21s that Yemen sent to Ukraine for an overhaul but then refused to accept delivery of on the account of shoddy work, or else planes that have been cobbled together from parts purchased from all over the world.

Moreover, Croatian media is now reporting that Croatian military police investigators believe the documentation on the overhaul of the seven Croatian MiGs was faked and that no overhaul work has been done on those planes at all.

Ukraine defense industry isn't exactly making a name for itself here.

Bribing foreign functionaries to win contracts is one thing. But doing such shoddy work afterwards as to leave your partners in crime hanging like this is another. As they say: No honor among thieves.

How Ukraine Cheated Croatia out of Its MiG Fighters

Croatia Probes Fighter Jet Deal With Ukraine Amid Corruption Claims

 

[Igrok_]

Firstly, according to the western point, US are doing all right. They are trying to surround Russia by their military bases and such infrastructure. Ukraine is only one another step ahead.
Secondary, the psychology of such actions is to make pressure as far as Russia can bear. So, Russia reacts,'cause ukraine is too close to its borders, unlike Romania or Poland.
If West can outperform Russia and capture Ukraine, then ok, Russia deserves such path, if not - ok too, West deserves it.

Nothing personal, just business.

 

[Igrok_]

And to say about Ukrainians - it is a big betrayal, because they are just former russian region which is now live in lies and total brainwashing. But it is nothing depends on them. I think betrayers deserve such path of being humiliated by either players of the big game.

 

[anotherlife]

And to say about Ukrainians - it is a big betrayal, because they are just former russian region which is now live in lies and total brainwashing. But it is nothing depends on them. I think betrayers deserve such path of being humiliated by either players of the big game.

Brain washing? The Russian communist had to starve 50 % of all Ukrainians in 1920 to brain wash them into being Soviet Russians to begin with. Then they repeated this against a few others too, not only the Ukrainians.

 

[Baron]

The failed 'state' of Ukraine is a piece of sh..!I do not want to pay my taxes for this garbage.

 

[Igrok_]

And to say about Ukrainians - it is a big betrayal, because they are just former russian region which is now live in lies and total brainwashing. But it is nothing depends on them. I think betrayers deserve such path of being humiliated by either players of the big game.

Brain washing? The Russian communist had to starve 50 % of all Ukrainians in 1920 to brain wash them into being Soviet Russians to begin with. Then they repeated this against a few others too, not only the Ukrainians.

The Ukrainian communists did it to russians as well. And during the communism times russians were murdered much more than ukrainians.

 

[anotherlife]

And to say about Ukrainians - it is a big betrayal, because they are just former russian region which is now live in lies and total brainwashing. But it is nothing depends on them. I think betrayers deserve such path of being humiliated by either players of the big game.

Brain washing? The Russian communist had to starve 50 % of all Ukrainians in 1920 to brain wash them into being Soviet Russians to begin with. Then they repeated this against a few others too, not only the Ukrainians.

The Ukrainian communists did it to russians as well. And during the communism times russians were murdered much more than ukrainians.

This is possible. But apart from the short time of Khrushchev (?) in the 1950's, who was a very smart man, from what I heard of him, the Ukrainian were not the ones in control.

 

[Igrok_]

And to say about Ukrainians - it is a big betrayal, because they are just former russian region which is now live in lies and total brainwashing. But it is nothing depends on them. I think betrayers deserve such path of being humiliated by either players of the big game.

Brain washing? The Russian communist had to starve 50 % of all Ukrainians in 1920 to brain wash them into being Soviet Russians to begin with. Then they repeated this against a few others too, not only the Ukrainians.

The Ukrainian communists did it to russians as well. And during the communism times russians were murdered much more than ukrainians.

This is possible. But apart from the short time of Khrushchev (?) in the 1950's, who was a very smart man, from what I heard of him, the Ukrainian were not the ones in control.

in what control? If you divide soviets by races or nations, then 80% members of earlier soviet government were jews, Stalin was georgian as well as Beria, russian coup was financed by germans.
Then Hrushev and Brezhnev were from western part of Ussr which later became "ukraine". Chernenko had "ukrainian" surname according to their modern rules(it ends on "o"). So seems like russians were totally out of control in USSR due to all its existence.
That is when you consider people by their race, blood and flesh, but not by their mind and culture like all normal people do.

 

[Stratford57]

The failed 'state' of Ukraine is a piece of sh..!I do not want to pay my taxes for this garbage.

The other day Poroshenko arrived to Washington to beg for money: begging for money is now the main income for Ukraine.
NY Times:
In these circumstances Mr. Poroshenko seems to have accepted continuing corruption as the price to pay for modicum of maneuvering room. But the president, the prime minister and the parliament must me made to understand that the International Monitory Fund and the donor nations, like United States, can’t continue to shovel money into a corrupt swamp unless the government starts shaping the democratic rule that Ukrainians demanded in their protests.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/01/opinion/ukraines-unyielding-corruption.html?_r=0

March 9, 2016.
During her recent visit to the Ukrainian capital of Kiev—where she stayed at the five-star Intercontinental Hotel—former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice had some less-than-inspiring words of advice for Ukrainians: If you’re unhappy, look to Liberia.
As it turns out, Ms. Rice’s “public speech” turned out to be not so public, and only a short abstract can be found. Ukrainian media has painstakingly avoided mentioning her appearance—likely, because it was loaded with bitter pills.

Though her talking points were abundant, Ms. Rice kicked off on the wrong foot—opening with the theme of mutual responsibilities held between Ukrainian politicians and Ukrainian simple folk. Quoting JFK’s famous “Don’t ask what your country can do for you” line, her message was clear: Don’t expect too much from your government, dear Ukrainians.

In fairness, this is not the first time Ukraine’s economy has been compared to Liberia. Last September, Odessa Governor and former Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili “with all due respect to Africa” compared its economy to Gabon. According toGallup International, the standard of living in Ukraine is currently at its lowest level in all the years of conducted research. In 2015, 79 percent of Ukrainians considered themselves to be “poor.”
Condoleezza to the People of Ukraine: Just Be Glad You Aren’t Liberian!

 

[anotherlife]

And to say about Ukrainians - it is a big betrayal, because they are just former russian region which is now live in lies and total brainwashing. But it is nothing depends on them. I think betrayers deserve such path of being humiliated by either players of the big game.

Brain washing? The Russian communist had to starve 50 % of all Ukrainians in 1920 to brain wash them into being Soviet Russians to begin with. Then they repeated this against a few others too, not only the Ukrainians.

The Ukrainian communists did it to russians as well. And during the communism times russians were murdered much more than ukrainians.

This is possible. But apart from the short time of Khrushchev (?) in the 1950's, who was a very smart man, from what I heard of him, the Ukrainian were not the ones in control.

in what control? If you divide soviets by races or nations, then 80% members of earlier soviet government were jews, Stalin was georgian as well as Beria, russian coup was financed by germans.
Then Hrushev and Brezhnev were from western part of Ussr which later became "ukraine". Chernenko had "ukrainian" surname according to their modern rules(it ends on "o"). So seems like russians were totally out of control in USSR due to all its existence.
That is when you consider people by their race, blood and flesh, but not by their mind and culture like all normal people do.

Okay, so you are saying, that it was the Jews that controlled the USSR. I agree and this was an open secret until the Jews took control the western media too. This explains also, why the communist party of the USSR maintained an "enemy within" operational philosophy, to exclude non-Jews from the central control of the party and the country.

 

[Igrok_]

And to say about Ukrainians - it is a big betrayal, because they are just former russian region which is now live in lies and total brainwashing. But it is nothing depends on them. I think betrayers deserve such path of being humiliated by either players of the big game.

Brain washing? The Russian communist had to starve 50 % of all Ukrainians in 1920 to brain wash them into being Soviet Russians to begin with. Then they repeated this against a few others too, not only the Ukrainians.

The Ukrainian communists did it to russians as well. And during the communism times russians were murdered much more than ukrainians.

This is possible. But apart from the short time of Khrushchev (?) in the 1950's, who was a very smart man, from what I heard of him, the Ukrainian were not the ones in control.

in what control? If you divide soviets by races or nations, then 80% members of earlier soviet government were jews, Stalin was georgian as well as Beria, russian coup was financed by germans.
Then Hrushev and Brezhnev were from western part of Ussr which later became "ukraine". Chernenko had "ukrainian" surname according to their modern rules(it ends on "o"). So seems like russians were totally out of control in USSR due to all its existence.
That is when you consider people by their race, blood and flesh, but not by their mind and culture like all normal people do.

Okay, so you are saying, that it was the Jews that controlled the USSR. I agree and this was an open secret until the Jews took control the western media too. This explains also, why the communist party of the USSR maintained an "enemy within" operational philosophy, to exclude non-Jews from the central control of the party and the country.

yes, most of communists around the world were jews in the early of 20th century. And that is why nazis were against them, cause communists were a strong party there, trying to do with Germany what they did to Russia.
But it doesn't matter at all, cause i am not racist and used to consider people by their culture. If the man is of jew race but thinks like russian, he is russian for sure. And if russian thinks like jew, he is not russian at all.

 

[Maggdy]

The failed 'state' of Ukraine is a piece of sh..!I do not want to pay my taxes for this garbage.

The other day Poroshenko arrived to Washington to beg for money: begging for money is now the main income for Ukraine.
NY Times:
In these circumstances Mr. Poroshenko seems to have accepted continuing corruption as the price to pay for modicum of maneuvering room. But the president, the prime minister and the parliament must me made to understand that the International Monitory Fund and the donor nations, like United States, can’t continue to shovel money into a corrupt swamp unless the government starts shaping the democratic rule that Ukrainians demanded in their protests.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/01/opinion/ukraines-unyielding-corruption.html?_r=0

March 9, 2016.
During her recent visit to the Ukrainian capital of Kiev—where she stayed at the five-star Intercontinental Hotel—former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice had some less-than-inspiring words of advice for Ukrainians: If you’re unhappy, look to Liberia.
As it turns out, Ms. Rice’s “public speech” turned out to be not so public, and only a short abstract can be found. Ukrainian media has painstakingly avoided mentioning her appearance—likely, because it was loaded with bitter pills.

Though her talking points were abundant, Ms. Rice kicked off on the wrong foot—opening with the theme of mutual responsibilities held between Ukrainian politicians and Ukrainian simple folk. Quoting JFK’s famous “Don’t ask what your country can do for you” line, her message was clear: Don’t expect too much from your government, dear Ukrainians.

In fairness, this is not the first time Ukraine’s economy has been compared to Liberia. Last September, Odessa Governor and former Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili “with all due respect to Africa” compared its economy to Gabon. According toGallup International, the standard of living in Ukraine is currently at its lowest level in all the years of conducted research. In 2015, 79 percent of Ukrainians considered themselves to be “poor.”
Condoleezza to the People of Ukraine: Just Be Glad You Aren’t Liberian!

You have an fallacy, because Ukraine has also received the "Atom for Peace Award", such as Hungary.

"In the course of the Nuclear Security Summit in Washington, President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko had a meeting with U.S. President Barack Obama, as reported by the Ukrainian president's press service"

 

[anotherlife]

Brain washing? The Russian communist had to starve 50 % of all Ukrainians in 1920 to brain wash them into being Soviet Russians to begin with. Then they repeated this against a few others too, not only the Ukrainians.

The Ukrainian communists did it to russians as well. And during the communism times russians were murdered much more than ukrainians.

This is possible. But apart from the short time of Khrushchev (?) in the 1950's, who was a very smart man, from what I heard of him, the Ukrainian were not the ones in control.

in what control? If you divide soviets by races or nations, then 80% members of earlier soviet government were jews, Stalin was georgian as well as Beria, russian coup was financed by germans.
Then Hrushev and Brezhnev were from western part of Ussr which later became "ukraine". Chernenko had "ukrainian" surname according to their modern rules(it ends on "o"). So seems like russians were totally out of control in USSR due to all its existence.
That is when you consider people by their race, blood and flesh, but not by their mind and culture like all normal people do.

Okay, so you are saying, that it was the Jews that controlled the USSR. I agree and this was an open secret until the Jews took control the western media too. This explains also, why the communist party of the USSR maintained an "enemy within" operational philosophy, to exclude non-Jews from the central control of the party and the country.

yes, most of communists around the world were jews in the early of 20th century. And that is why nazis were against them, cause communists were a strong party there, trying to do with Germany what they did to Russia.
But it doesn't matter at all, cause i am not racist and used to consider people by their culture. If the man is of jew race but thinks like russian, he is russian for sure. And if russian thinks like jew, he is not russian at all.

But what if the Jews think like you only to fool you, like they do in every country? I am not saying that the ordinary working man who happens to be a Jew would be dangerous. But unfortunately mostly for them, the Jews that broker power, use them as meat shield. How do you see through the obfuscations? For the entire 80 year history of the USSR, nobody could.

 

[Igrok_]

The Ukrainian communists did it to russians as well. And during the communism times russians were murdered much more than ukrainians.

This is possible. But apart from the short time of Khrushchev (?) in the 1950's, who was a very smart man, from what I heard of him, the Ukrainian were not the ones in control.

in what control? If you divide soviets by races or nations, then 80% members of earlier soviet government were jews, Stalin was georgian as well as Beria, russian coup was financed by germans.
Then Hrushev and Brezhnev were from western part of Ussr which later became "ukraine". Chernenko had "ukrainian" surname according to their modern rules(it ends on "o"). So seems like russians were totally out of control in USSR due to all its existence.
That is when you consider people by their race, blood and flesh, but not by their mind and culture like all normal people do.

Okay, so you are saying, that it was the Jews that controlled the USSR. I agree and this was an open secret until the Jews took control the western media too. This explains also, why the communist party of the USSR maintained an "enemy within" operational philosophy, to exclude non-Jews from the central control of the party and the country.

yes, most of communists around the world were jews in the early of 20th century. And that is why nazis were against them, cause communists were a strong party there, trying to do with Germany what they did to Russia.
But it doesn't matter at all, cause i am not racist and used to consider people by their culture. If the man is of jew race but thinks like russian, he is russian for sure. And if russian thinks like jew, he is not russian at all.

But what if the Jews think like you only to fool you, like they do in every country? I am not saying that the ordinary working man who happens to be a Jew would be dangerous. But unfortunately mostly for them, the Jews that broker power, use them as meat shield. How do you see through the obfuscations? For the entire 80 year history of the USSR, nobody could.

many could, but they were eliminated hugely in Gulag. According to the researches of Mendeleev, russia should have been of 600 million people by 2000 year. In 2000 in former russian borders were living about 200 million. So, the rest are whose who understood what was going on and their unborn descendants.

 

[charwin95]

Russia can't afford a third world war...

Russia has thousands of nukes.
Only two hundred are enough to annihilate the world.

Putin is not that stupid........ How many allies that Russian have that has nuclear? Iran?
If Russia launch a missile strike guarantee you Russia will be annihilated.