Hamas Planned a Massive ‘Terror Tunnels’ Attack for September 24

[Sweet_Caroline]

these hundreds of tunnels that the vast majority of which are reinforced concrete ? have taken thousands of man hours to build were built for the sole purpose of attacking settlements and taking Israeli citizens hostage ? That just doesn't make any sense. Like so many of the arguments of pro incursion or pro Israeli people.

Most of the tunnels lead to Egypt not Israel so if the purpose of the tunnels is to take hostages why would hammas or any of the pro Palestinian political factions, build and again spend thousands of man hours and $$ on tunnels that wouldn't help them achieve "their true goal of capturing Israelis" the answer is they wouldn't. and that 99% of the time the tunnels are used for humanitarian purposes, even the ones into Israel.

Its the blockade of Gaza that has caused the tunnels to be built. they are used to smuggle food and water primarily ( because what Israel lets through the border is garbage and an unsuitable amount obviously for the population.)

there is a documentary from national geographic on YouTube ( amongst tons of other footage) a perfectly unbiased trueful look at the tunnels. they aren't even constructed in secret there is a donkey pulling a rope on a winch in broad daylight.

I guess my point is there is so much propaganda and lies from both sides I would not be naive enough to suggest hammas or militant styled groups don't have there own spin. It is possible to form a balanced and easily researched opinion, that has nothing to do with antisemitism or hating. Just an intelligent argument backed up with obvious and attainable facts. This "tunnel problem" is an example I think of how Israel spins their story and is a complete lie.

the ability to infiltrate Israel by tunnel from Gaza and kill or take hostages is and has been an available tool for hammas or whomever for more than a decade, they rarely probably less than 1% of the time have been used as such, and waiting for a high holiday doesn't make sense who cares do it when Israelis are not expecting it do it a month ago..... but they didn't, they used them and continued to use them mostly to bring food and water motor bikes and gas and more cement for more tunnels. they are privately owned and operate as businesses.

if you look around in 2014/15 and this incursion with the help of social media and legitimate news sources the truth is escaping and that's the worst thing for Israel, there is no world wide conspiracy against Israel and Jews they create their own image in the gallery of public opinion, and it stinks. there are to many protests to many academics and g8 sanctioned monitors to not agree and the news stories are too compelling for major networks to glance over.

the difference between the Warsaw ghetto and Gaza are also to similar to ignore, surrounded on all sides, systematically disarmed,demonetized,physically demolished, starved of necessities of life, and murdered. Jews in Warsaw fought back when they could, worked with sympathisers, joined militias and partisan groups, and did what they could to feed their families.

I am not Arabian, British mostly but have absolutely no predisposition to like either side, given the choice I side with the Palestinians, does being well informed before i choose make me an antisemitic ? No it doesn't, and the more people get a straight story the less anti Semites there are and then Israel will have no place to turn, i would be ashamed to be a Nazi, I would be ashamed to be Israeli, Jew or ( or gentile) that supports Israel.

these incursions will only increase hatred in the region, you can't worm your way out of killing kids on a beach or blowing up a tunnel that supplies food and water. its too obvious too exclusive, the world is turning against Israel more and more day after day just like me.

Another one !!?!??!!

Reproducing like rabbits.

 

[SAYIT]

I've never read anything that MEMRI publishes until today, I do remember them being in a shitstorm about mistranslations and selective stories. I never said they mistranslate though did it? I said they have a history of mistranslations and they do. Google "Memri Mistranslations" and you get an avalanche of stories about them

MEMRI?s Doctored Mickey Mouse-Hamas Story and How It Suckered the MSM Tikun-Olam Tikun Olam-????? ????

Look there is one from Google right there.

But you didn't bother did you, probably too busy cheering at the pictures of dead children on your TV.

It wasn't "doctored" and the Guardian published the following from Brian Whitaker (Comment is free | The Guardian) in May, 2007:

The accuracy of MEMRI's translations are considered usually accurate though occasionally disputed and highly selective in what it chooses to translate and in which context it puts things.

BTW, your "avalanche of stories" are nothing more than blogs from Wordpress. Typical.

Care to prove they are all wrong?

I just did - "The accuracy of MEMRI's translations are considered usually accurate..."

 

[Penelope]

these hundreds of tunnels that the vast majority of which are reinforced concrete ? have taken thousands of man hours to build were built for the sole purpose of attacking settlements and taking Israeli citizens hostage ? That just doesn't make any sense. Like so many of the arguments of pro incursion or pro Israeli people.

Most of the tunnels lead to Egypt not Israel so if the purpose of the tunnels is to take hostages why would hammas or any of the pro Palestinian political factions, build and again spend thousands of man hours and $$ on tunnels that wouldn't help them achieve "their true goal of capturing Israelis" the answer is they wouldn't. and that 99% of the time the tunnels are used for humanitarian purposes, even the ones into Israel.

Its the blockade of Gaza that has caused the tunnels to be built. they are used to smuggle food and water primarily ( because what Israel lets through the border is garbage and an unsuitable amount obviously for the population.)

there is a documentary from national geographic on YouTube ( amongst tons of other footage) a perfectly unbiased trueful look at the tunnels. they aren't even constructed in secret there is a donkey pulling a rope on a winch in broad daylight.

I guess my point is there is so much propaganda and lies from both sides I would not be naive enough to suggest hammas or militant styled groups don't have there own spin. It is possible to form a balanced and easily researched opinion, that has nothing to do with antisemitism or hating. Just an intelligent argument backed up with obvious and attainable facts. This "tunnel problem" is an example I think of how Israel spins their story and is a complete lie.

the ability to infiltrate Israel by tunnel from Gaza and kill or take hostages is and has been an available tool for hammas or whomever for more than a decade, they rarely probably less than 1% of the time have been used as such, and waiting for a high holiday doesn't make sense who cares do it when Israelis are not expecting it do it a month ago..... but they didn't, they used them and continued to use them mostly to bring food and water motor bikes and gas and more cement for more tunnels. they are privately owned and operate as businesses.

if you look around in 2014/15 and this incursion with the help of social media and legitimate news sources the truth is escaping and that's the worst thing for Israel, there is no world wide conspiracy against Israel and Jews they create their own image in the gallery of public opinion, and it stinks. there are to many protests to many academics and g8 sanctioned monitors to not agree and the news stories are too compelling for major networks to glance over.

the difference between the Warsaw ghetto and Gaza are also to similar to ignore, surrounded on all sides, systematically disarmed,demonetized,physically demolished, starved of necessities of life, and murdered. Jews in Warsaw fought back when they could, worked with sympathisers, joined militias and partisan groups, and did what they could to feed their families.

I am not Arabian, British mostly but have absolutely no predisposition to like either side, given the choice I side with the Palestinians, does being well informed before i choose make me an antisemitic ? No it doesn't, and the more people get a straight story the less anti Semites there are and then Israel will have no place to turn, i would be ashamed to be a Nazi, I would be ashamed to be Israeli, Jew or ( or gentile) that supports Israel.

these incursions will only increase hatred in the region, you can't worm your way out of killing kids on a beach or blowing up a tunnel that supplies food and water. its too obvious too exclusive, the world is turning against Israel more and more day after day just like me.

Another one !!?!??!!

Reproducing like rabbits.

Now you know how it feels, you might feel special by the war God you believe in , but in the majority of the human race Israel smells like garbage.

One little thing the Nazi's were not as bad as the Soviets were they? Like Churchill say we picked the wrong one. No wonder Ukraine celebrates Hitler. Nothing worst that a Communist Jew.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Another one !!?!??!!

Reproducing like rabbits.

Now you know how it feels, you might feel special by the war God you believe in , but in the majority of the human race Israel smells like garbage.

One little thing the Nazi's were not as bad as the Soviets were they? Like Churchill say we picked the wrong one. No one Ukraine celebrates Hitler.

One thing I have noticed about you Hamas supporters on this forum. As the days go on, and Hamas is taking the beating of its life, you supporters are getting more and more incoherent and idiotic.

 

[aris2chat]

Hamas spokesman, two days ago: Israel doesn't respect Muslim holidays.

Muslims in the rest of the world have not adjusted their violence to respect their own holidays. Killing, fighting, bombing, torture, abuse go on.

 

[SAYIT]

Reproducing like rabbits.

Now you know how it feels, you might feel special by the war God you believe in , but in the majority of the human race Israel smells like garbage.

One little thing the Nazi's were not as bad as the Soviets were they? Like Churchill say we picked the wrong one. No one Ukraine celebrates Hitler.

One thing I have noticed about you Hamas supporters on this forum. As the days go on, and Hamas is taking the beating of its life, you supporters are getting more and more incoherent and idiotic.

Penelope has always been a bit, uh, idiotic. She seems to have one of those Stormfront/IslamRadio type educations.

 

[proudveteran06]

Hamas spokesman, two days ago: Israel doesn't respect Muslim holidays.

Now, that is funny! I wonder how many Jewish Holidays Hamas respects. Let's have a vote: Does anyone see anything wrong with " Right of Return"

 

[aris2chat]

Because you can translate it for us! So you couldn't call it "Zionist bullshit"..
Or in case you consider its fake, please point the reasons.

I think the reason that he is skeptical is that it is from a source that is pretty dodgy, MEMRI has a history of mistranlsations
which all strangely seem to paint all parties but Israel in a bad light.
How odd that such a non-profit organisation would make mistakes that always paint palestinians in a worse light? Lets look further. MEMRI was founded by a former Colonel in the IDF who also worked as an "anti terrorism" advisor to the Israeli goverment and yet in his biography on MEMRI's website this fact is sadly omitted.

Mistranslations? - Can I see your source to base that claim? maybe you can explain what is mistranslated in this video.
However, since you both questioned the source - which is very legitimate - (although it sounds more like deny it entirely)
I Asked him to translate that himself, or maybe to point what is wrong with this specific video, and I'm relating to the content, not the source.

Oh and about the Yemani Girl, except providing a news report of the parents answer, I don't see why MEMRI like any other news agency reported it found unreliable.
But this is not the subject, so try not derailing the subject.

[MENTION=47158]Manchester[/MENTION]
[MENTION=38033]Indofred[/MENTION]

MEMRI might choose some of the more controversial interviews, news reports and speeches to translate, that is all they do, translate. These are usually stories the rest of the media bypasses as too controversial or in some cases there are two versions, one for domestic and a different for international consumption. MEMRI makes available statements, speeches and text available that would otherwise not be heard or reported on.
MEMRI translates into several languages and is used by government and media. They are not mistranslating or creating anything. It is giving those who do not speak arabic, farsi, or other languages to learn what is being said.
It gives the western world a chance to learn what is being said in the middle east and not just what is being said to western media.

If you find a mistake, do explain to all of us or stop saying they mistranslated anything.

 

[Indeependent]

Why did this thread get derailed?
The Azans spent an enormous amount of money, materials and time building tunnels into Israel and Egypt, most probably for hostile reasons.
I need nothing else explained to me.

 

[aris2chat]

People believe what they choose to believe...

Tru dat and you are a prime example. You don't like what MEMRI publishes so you FALSELY claim it to be misinterpreted. Turns out you are the liar. See how dat works?

I've never read anything that MEMRI publishes until today, I do remember them being in a shitstorm about mistranslations and selective stories. I never said they mistranslate though did it? I said they have a history of mistranslations and they do. Google "Memri Mistranslations" and you get an avalanche of stories about them

MEMRI?s Doctored Mickey Mouse-Hamas Story and How It Suckered the MSM Tikun-Olam Tikun Olam-????? ????

Look there is one from Google right there.

But you didn't bother did you, probably too busy cheering at the pictures of dead children on your TV.

It was Farfour that said it would shoot. At another point it was a difference of martyrs and martyrdom. Hard as some might find it, not everything translates one to one. Arabic has a certain way of phrasing things that is natural to them but does not quite work. You have to take the whole phrase not word by word for it to make grammatical sense.
Even translating legal documents there can be slight variations.

 

[irosie91]

Another one !!?!??!!

Reproducing like rabbits.

Now you know how it feels, you might feel special by the war God you believe in , but in the majority of the human race Israel smells like garbage.

One little thing the Nazi's were not as bad as the Soviets were they? Like Churchill say we picked the wrong one. No wonder Ukraine celebrates Hitler. Nothing worst that a Communist Jew.

wrong again Penelope------this is the real world in which you stink like shit
PS stalin was raised as an Eastern Orthodox Christian . I do not blame
the eastern orthodox people for spawning that murderer-----however----UKAINIANS
have a long history of antisemitsm ----it precedes Karl Marx That they celebrate
Hitler is consistent with the fact that muslims celebrate Hitler Hitler is one of the
gods of your religion.

 

[Indofred]

2.Since it is not a mosque but still a sermon, and its published on Al-Aqsa TV as a public show, the fact that he speech alone during that sermon doesn't indicate anything.

A far better, and believable, post.
This time, we see the broadcast, before the Zionist site edit, showing it was real.
Presumably, my searches missed this because of the language difference and poor information available.
There goes a lesson for the Hamas lot, publish in English if you want your version out.
However, I'm very much against hate speech, so I'm glad they're crap at PR.

Much as this man, and Hamas in general, are clearly daft bastards, I can't condemn all the people of Gaza for the same reason I can't condemn all Israelis for the crimes of their government and armed forces; the whole are never guilty of the crimes of the few.
The same goes for Israel's attacks against Gaza - you're punishing the whole for the crimes of some.
Are Hamas a criminal terrorist bunch? Yes, but the rest of the people are not.
Frankly, I'd like to see them and the Israeli government all die of heart attacks, this morning would do very nicely, so the rest of the population can live in peace.

One last point - destroying the TV station is pointless. I have easily enough gear at home to create such videos and publish them on the internet. I'm pretty sure many of us do, but I can do pro quality stuff, easily as good as the noted youtube offering.
In other words, they'll just set up again, it would take me about an hour, if I had to find a few props in order to make it look like a mosque or studio.

 

[irosie91]

more utterly meaningless platitudes from freddie

 

[MHunterB]

In war to attack any way you can. So far 98% of the Israeli casualties have been military and 80% of the Palestinian casualties have been civilians. I think if we're all look at the cold hard facts instead of the spin we all know who the terrorists really are.

Yes, the lot you continue to express support for are the terrorists. I notice you didn't mention the GC or international law: therefore you can't logically heap opprobrium upon Israel for *not* following international law (the purported '80% civilian casualties' ).

IOW, your double standard and hypocrisy are showing.

 

[MHunterB]

Palestinians are no longer people, just "cancer"?

Israelis seem to be well down the path to permitting genocide.
This really does show that yanks don't get 'irony'.

Not 'Palestinians' - HAMAS. That really does show that you don't get it.

 

[Jughead]

In war to attack any way you can. So far 98% of the Israeli casualties have been military and 80% of the Palestinian casualties have been civilians. I think if we're all look at the cold hard facts instead of the spin we all know who the terrorists really are.

The difference between Israel and Hamas (a terrorist group) is that unlike Hamas, Israel does not deliberately target innocent civilians. Have you seen Israel launching rocket attacks into Gaza to deliberately kill innocent civilians? As a terrorist organization, Hamas has zero credibility.

Let me ask you, if Al Qaeda were somehow launching rockets into the US, deliberately targeting innocent civilians, what should the US do? Just leave them be? Let them ride roughshod over all of us?

The only way to handle terrorists is to hunt them down wherever they are hiding, and terminate them...

 

[Kondor3]

Palestinians are no longer people, just "cancer"?

Israelis seem to be well down the path to permitting genocide.
This really does show that yanks don't get 'irony'.

Not 'Palestinians' - HAMAS. That really does show that you don't get it.

A 'minor' and 'subtle' distinction, is it not?

 

[Daniyel]

2.Since it is not a mosque but still a sermon, and its published on Al-Aqsa TV as a public show, the fact that he speech alone during that sermon doesn't indicate anything.

A far better, and believable, post.
This time, we see the broadcast, before the Zionist site edit, showing it was real.
Presumably, my searches missed this because of the language difference and poor information available.
There goes a lesson for the Hamas lot, publish in English if you want your version out.
However, I'm very much against hate speech, so I'm glad they're crap at PR.

Much as this man, and Hamas in general, are clearly daft bastards, I can't condemn all the people of Gaza for the same reason I can't condemn all Israelis for the crimes of their government and armed forces; the whole are never guilty of the crimes of the few.
The same goes for Israel's attacks against Gaza - you're punishing the whole for the crimes of some.
Are Hamas a criminal terrorist bunch? Yes, but the rest of the people are not.
Frankly, I'd like to see them and the Israeli government all die of heart attacks, this morning would do very nicely, so the rest of the population can live in peace.

One last point - destroying the TV station is pointless. I have easily enough gear at home to create such videos and publish them on the internet. I'm pretty sure many of us do, but I can do pro quality stuff, easily as good as the noted youtube offering.
In other words, they'll just set up again, it would take me about an hour, if I had to find a few props in order to make it look like a mosque or studio.

When you pay close attention to EVERY statement came from Israel, you can see ALL of them are against Hamas, not the Palestinians and I'm not saying this because we are perfect or saints - its just the way it is, and yet there are 18 other Terrorist organizations(Al-Aqsa Martyrs, Islamic Jihad, Fatah(was killed by Hamas?)) and everything in Gaza is filtered by Hamas, Al-Aqsa TV is preaching hate for kids and I Don't know if you aware of that but Israel also took down Hamas website and the purpose of destroying the house of Ismail Haniyah was to humiliate the Hamas, taking them away from statements like the one you'll see below.
The situation in Gaza is terrible this is true, but Hamas deceiving the people, to be honest I feel pity for them, imagine this-
A Kid in Gaza is watching Al-Aqsa TV exposed to shows and [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Eu6_P8rNpk"]statements such as this one[/ame] with a reasonable anger and God knows what other education or family environment this kid grows to a point that if he/she doesn't turn out to be affiliated with Hamas, he/she is just full of anger, Hamas as the 'default' government enjoy their support and publish one of their lies - here is the latest one quoting Mohammad Deif, Qassam Brigades Chief -

"What the air force and your artillery shelling has failed to accomplish, will not be accomplished by ground forces," said Deif. "You are sending your soldiers to a definite slaughterhouse, God willing."

- Over 600 (verified?) Civilians died versus 4 Civilians died in Israel? I'm not even talking about the military statistics -
The fact is that Hamas losing badly and they are sinking the ship called Gaza with them, I can assure you that.
Israel is very tolerant, but like I said, you probably read al-Jazeera so you can't tell about what WE in Israel are exposed to on daily basis, only thing published is something quoted from a left wing extremist usually end up with a question mark ("Does Iron Dome really works?" "Israel:Fighting an unwinable war?") and all that crap, I bet you didn't hear about the two suspects Israel and US is hunting:

Because the media is busy dealing with what the terrorists say.
However, my point is very clear about this, Israel NEVER benefit from any civilian casualty and never will, if it was possible to kill all the Hamas without hurting one innocent - I would be the first one to say yes.
All the pictures of dead civilians does massive damage to Israel's reputation, it doesn't help at all trust me, But if it has to be Palestinian casualty over Israeli casualty I won't be happy it happens but this is inevitable, and the security of Israel goes first in every priority list, and I goes the same for the pro-Palestinians, but the third side - HAMAS - are the only one to benefit from that, not Israel, and definitely not the Palestinians.
The problem as I see it, is not with people like you who agree Hamas is wrong, but with people like Billo,Tinmore,Amity, and so on that agree with the cause of Hamas and even consider them a legitimate government.
People in Gaza are desperate for help, but instead of blaming Hamas, people blame Israel by default, I don't care if people doesn't like us, not at all, but to reach peace-treaty with Gaza, it is impossible while Hamas are in control, Egypt for example doesn't really like us, they are just like you, sympathizing the Palestinians which is fine by me, but there still a peace-treaty with Egypt, and to be able to reach that you can open the history channel and see for yourself, Nasser wasn't far from Hamas, past Nasser Israel and Egypt reached peace-treaty.
Turning the blame on Israel is not going to get us anywhere, its only taking any possible peace-treaty a step backward, Israel won't compromise on security no matter what, and I bet you can understand our position nobody want to compromise on their own security, but the poor innocents in Gaza are not the one we blame, the Hamas are the only aggressor and unless their throne is over we cant reach any peace-treaty of any sort- which is bad for the Palestinians agree?- note that Khaled Masha'al always talking about bigger steps, not one small step at a time, but all of that only to reach ceasefire (ceasefire?) seriously, this is not how you negotiate when people are dying.
You can also see why we also disagreed to negotiate with Abbas, the one made a pact with the terrorists in Gaza, they only care about themselves.
I can go on with this but before you hesitate to judge the Israeli government, take a look on the Palestinians and see why none of the ceasefires accepted, all that mysteries about ceasefire with Hamas always turned out to "not accepted" by Hamas or whatever, if you were the leader of the Palestinians in Gaza, what would be the first step you would've take? [MENTION=38033]Indofred[/MENTION]

 

[Indofred]

When you pay close attention to EVERY statement came from Israel, you can see ALL of them are against Hamas, not the Palestinians

There is little argument, Israel is far better at PR than the Palestinians but perhaps you can answer a couple of questions.

Why did Israel attack this UN shelter, even when you were aware there were no weapons there, only sleeping children?

BBC News - Gaza conflict: UN accuses Israel over Jabaliya attack

UN spokesman Chris Gunness said "the world stands disgraced" by the attack, in which 15 died and dozens were hurt.

The Israeli military said an initial inquiry suggested soldiers responded to mortar fire. The military says it is now holding a partial, four-hour humanitarian ceasefire.

Some 1,200 Palestinians and 55 Israelis have been killed in the conflict.

Most of the Palestinian deaths have been civilians.

It's all well and good claiming to be directing operations only against Hamas, but killing 1,200 non combatant civilians to get a very few more extreme people.

I have to agree, Hamas are a bunch of idiots and, I'll be honest, I have no problem with them getting shot, but not for the reasons you would shoot them.
Their missiles damage a few fences and a turnip or two, but they give Israel an excuse for mass murder.
That, in my humble opinion, makes them traitors to the people of Gaza, and pretty much as bad as the bastards in the IDF that actually carry out the murders.

 

[Indeependent]

When you pay close attention to EVERY statement came from Israel, you can see ALL of them are against Hamas, not the Palestinians

There is little argument, Israel is far better at PR than the Palestinians but perhaps you can answer a couple of questions.

Why did Israel attack this UN shelter, even when you were aware there were no weapons there, only sleeping children?

BBC News - Gaza conflict: UN accuses Israel over Jabaliya attack

UN spokesman Chris Gunness said "the world stands disgraced" by the attack, in which 15 died and dozens were hurt.

The Israeli military said an initial inquiry suggested soldiers responded to mortar fire. The military says it is now holding a partial, four-hour humanitarian ceasefire.

Some 1,200 Palestinians and 55 Israelis have been killed in the conflict.

Most of the Palestinian deaths have been civilians.

It's all well and good claiming to be directing operations only against Hamas, but killing 1,200 non combatant civilians to get a very few more extreme people.

I have to agree, Hamas are a bunch of idiots and, I'll be honest, I have no problem with them getting shot, but not for the reasons you would shoot them.
Their missiles damage a few fences and a turnip or two, but they give Israel an excuse for mass murder.
That, in my humble opinion, makes them traitors to the people of Gaza, and pretty much as bad as the bastards in the IDF that actually carry out the murders.

Hamas can't aim so it might have been them.
On the other hand, shit happens during the heat of battle.