Zone1 Have we lost The Bible Story?

[Meriweather]

Are Christians guilty of scaring people into Christianity with threats of hell? Are non-believers guilty of accusing Christians of too often using threats to convert them? (Often under the guise of, "If someone's house was in danger of catching fire, wouldn't you warn them of that? So why not warn them of hell."

Is the current (too often heard) summary of The Bible Story, Be afraid, be very afraid?

There are battles. The earth has battles, nations have battles, the workplace has battles, and we have personal battles. When was the last time we were assured—or we assured another, The battles belong to the Lord, which is a theme running throughout this story.

 

[jwoodie]

The wages of sin are death, not hell.

 

[Woodznutz]

The wages of sin are death, not hell.

As "hell" is generally understood to be eternal torment.

 

[Meriweather]

The wages of sin are death, not hell.

Is this point more salient than God's love and redemption of the world? And, that our battles with faith are God's battles?

 

[Meriweather]

As "hell" is generally understood to be eternal torment.

In Catholicism, "hell" is generally understood to be saying no to God's kingdom and life with him...pretty much going one's separate way. We no longer have God battling for us.

 

[Woodznutz]

In Catholicism, "hell" is generally understood to be saying no to God's kingdom and life with him...pretty much going one's separate way. We no longer have God battling for us.

God prepares us for battle, with the Holy Spirit and the knowledge of truth.

 

[Donald H]

Are Christians guilty of scaring people into Christianity with threats of hell? Are non-believers guilty of accusing Christians of too often using threats to convert them? (Often under the guise of, "If someone's house was in danger of catching fire, wouldn't you warn them of that? So why not warn them of hell."

Is the current (too often heard) summary of The Bible Story, Be afraid, be very afraid?

There are battles. The earth has battles, nations have battles, the workplace has battles, and we have personal battles. When was the last time we were assured—or we assured another, The battles belong to the Lord, which is a theme running throughout this story.

The danger in your ideas on assuring others is in choosing whose assurance is accepted. Our Ding could be considered to be safe and trusted, until he proclaimed that he accepts the fossil record completely. So while you likely agree too, only a small number of Christians will accept that as reassurance.

Fossils

Is the fossil record millions of years old, or is it powerful evidence for the global Flood of Genesis? And where are the transitional fossils and missing links?

answersingenesis.org

The catholic church has turned to accepting Darwin and evolution but it's going to have to be a breakaway church for many years to come.

So yes, be afraid of the bible's story, depending on which Christian tells the story! I think it's not a good time for you to raise the issue.

 

[Meriweather]

The catholic church has turned to accepting Darwin and evolution but it's going to have to be a breakaway church for many years to come.

So yes, be afraid of the bible's story, depending on which Christian tells the story! I think it's not a good time for you to raise the issue.

I don't know why you think the Bible is about evolution. The Bible is not about physical life/existence, but spiritual life/existence. It is about God.

 

[Donald H]

I don't know why you think the Bible is about evolution. The Bible is not about physical life/existence, but spiritual life/existence. It is about God.

Thank you for considering my suggestions. I'm not saying the bible is about evolution, I'm suggesting that those who provide reassurance, be compatible with those they attempt to reassure.

I think there are no strictly generic interpretations of the bibles that can suit the beliefs of any more than 25% of Christians. And in fact that may be optimistic if we are to consider that there are differing opinions already in the Catholic church.

You tell me that the bible isn't about evolution. How can I accept even that when Genesis directly contradicts evolution?

And with all due respects to you, our Ding has claimed to completely accept science's fossil record. In fairness to Ding, that might have been a little careless?

 

[Meriweather]

Thank you for considering my suggestions. I'm not saying the bible is about evolution, I'm suggesting that those who provide reassurance, be compatible with those they attempt to reassure.

I think there are no strictly generic interpretations of the bibles that can suit the beliefs of any more than 25% of Christians. And in fact that may be optimistic if we are to consider that there are differing opinions already in the Catholic church.

You tell me that the bible isn't about evolution. How can I accept even that when Genesis directly contradicts evolution?

And with all due respects to you, our Ding has claimed to completely accept science's fossil record. In fairness to Ding, that might have been a little careless?

1. What does evolution have to do with how we treat strangers, give to the poor, or our relationship with God?
2. What does evolution have to do with directing us on how to live life to the fullest?
3. Can evolution bring joy or peace or thankfulness into an individual's existence?
4. The Bible addresses the fall of mankind from something greater into what we live today. It addresses our redemption, how to treat the individuals we come across in everyday life.
5. It advises that God is in our midst and we can build a relationship with him.

I don't know of anyone who reads the Bible to learn about evolution. The purpose of the Bible is to learn about, and get to know, God.

 

[Donald H]

1. What does evolution have to do with how we treat strangers, give to the poor, or our relationship with God?

For our Ding, it seems to have a great deal to do with how he treats strangers and/or atheists. It's become a fight for him, as opposes to a polite discussion. I talk to you and you talk to me because we don't need to descend to his level.

2. What does evolution have to do with directing us on how to live life to the fullest?

In my opinion we can't live life to the fullest if we reject evolution. You apparently don't but look at the behaviour of those who do reject evolution! We could get into more details on what those hardcore Christians are missing in life.

3. Can evolution bring joy or peace or thankfulness into an individual's existence?

I believe that accepting evolution has done that for both of us. You have personally moved on from trying to explain Genesis in your bibles.

4. The Bible addresses the fall of mankind from something greater into what we live today. It addresses our redemption, how to treat the individuals we come across in everyday life.

Today, as in how many days, months, years, centuries? When has mankind ever been greater? You could have a point if you specified what 'greater' means. I would like to hear about that because I think we can find some qualified agreement.

5. It advises that God is in our midst and we can build a relationship with him.

As an atheist I can't answer or comment on that. The reason is obvious.

I don't know of anyone who reads the Bible to learn about evolution.

I think that many read the bibles to strengthen their belief in creation, as well as their belief in other issues that contradict their Christian beliefs.

The purpose of the Bible is to learn about, and get to know, God.

Yes, but the human mind can't help but ask questions. For example, if an intelligent person comes to Jesus, he has far too many contradictions that he will have to ignore.

Just Jonah and the big fish story alone can't clear that hurdle and so the less intelligent can happily ignore.

Only imprinting Christian beliefs onto very young children can work for the highly intelligent.

 

[Donald H]

For our Ding, it seems to have a great deal to do with how he treats strangers and/or atheists. It's become a fight for him, as opposes to a polite discussion. I talk to you and you talk to me because we don't need to descend to his level.

In my opinion we can't live life to the fullest if we reject evolution. You apparently don't but look at the behaviour of those who do reject evolution! We could get into more details on what those hardcore Christians are missing in life.

I believe that accepting evolution has done that for both of us. You have personally moved on from trying to explain Genesis in your bibles. As has Ding lately and begrudgingly!

Today, as in how many days, months, years, centuries? When has mankind ever been greater? You could have a point if you specified what 'greater' means. I would like to hear about that because I think we can find some qualified agreement.

As an atheist I can't answer or comment on that. The reason is obvious.

I think that many read the bibles to strengthen their belief in creation, as well as their belief in other issues that contradict their Christian beliefs.

Yes, but the human mind can't help but ask questions. For example, if an intelligent person comes to Jesus, he has far too many contradictions that he will have to ignore.

Just Jonah and the big fish story alone can't clear that hurdle and so the less intelligent can happily ignore.

Only imprinting Christian beliefs onto very young children can work for the highly intelligent.

 

[Meriweather]

You have personally moved on from trying to explain Genesis in your bibles.

I've never had a problem explaining Genesis. It has nothing to do with evolution.

Today, as in how many days, months, years, centuries? When has mankind ever been greater? You could have a point if you specified what 'greater' means. I would like to hear about that because I think we can find some qualified agreement.

This is not the first era where a portion of mankind was deep into worldly pleasures and desires.

I think that many read the bibles to strengthen their belief in creation, as well as their belief in other issues that contradict their Christian beliefs.

Which Bible passages do you think strengthens belief, not in God, but in evolution?

Yes, but the human mind can't help but ask questions. For example, if an intelligent person comes to Jesus, he has far too many contradictions that he will have to ignore.

What do you see as the greatest contradiction?

 

[Woodznutz]

Fossils

Is the fossil record millions of years old, or is it powerful evidence for the global Flood of Genesis? And where are the transitional fossils and missing links?

answersingenesis.org

One problem is that most people limit themselves to only two choices, Seven-day creationism or evolution over millions of years. But just as there are political "Independents" there is a third alternative regarding the earth, Gap Theory.

Note that the narrator, speaking on behalf of Answers In Genesis, substitutes "perfect" for the Biblical "very good". A quick look at the Hebrew dictionary reveals that these are two different adjectives with different meanings. In other words, the narrator is interpreting the passage through the 'lense' of Answers In Genesis, not the Bible.

The article also points to 'soft tissue' in dinosaur bones as evidence of recent death as opposed to death 60 million years ago. However, it is possible that dinosaurs were killed in a flood that happened as recently as 50,000 years ago or less as God restructured the ecology of the surface of the earth as a suitable habitat for modern man; Adam and Eve, and us.

 

[alang1216]

In Catholicism, "hell" is generally understood to be saying no to God's kingdom and life with him...pretty much going one's separate way. We no longer have God battling for us.

So, as an atheist, will I spend eternity separate from God or tormented in a fiery pit presided over by Satan?

 

[Woodznutz]

So, as an atheist, will I spend eternity separate from God or tormented in a fiery pit presided over by Satan?

"God is not willing that (enter your name) should perish but that (you) should come to repentance."

 

[alang1216]

"God is not willing that (enter your name) should perish but that (you) should come to repentance."

I think the question is, what happens if I don't come to repentance?

 

[Meriweather]

So, as an atheist, will I spend eternity separate from God or tormented in a fiery pit presided over by Satan?

In the Bible, Satan (haSatan) was the one who tested or tempted a person. Job is the best example. Was Job truly good, or was he good because he had an easy life? haSatan was given permission to test Job's faith in God and his goodness. I'm not aware of anything Biblical that says haSatan presides over any fiery pit.

In the new Testament we see Jesus being tempted/tested by Satan during his time in the desert. Jesus passed these tests/temptations. Later we see Peter trying to talk Jesus out of putting himself in danger of death. Jesus told him he had taken on the role of Satan (the tempter/tester) and to get behind him.

The words translated into English as 'devil' or 'demon' are different from haSatan. Devils and demons are seen as liars and deceivers from the beginning, not tempters. We are told the Lake of Fire was made for these. Are you a liar and/or a deceiver?

 

[Woodznutz]

I think the question is, what happens if I don't come to repentance?

You will be destroyed. Even the memory of you will cease so that others won't grieve forever over your fate. It will be as if you never existed. Not to worry, you won't feel any pain. The good news is that you won't face this choice until the second resurrection during the reign of Christ on earth.

 

[alang1216]

In the Bible, Satan (haSatan) was the one who tested or tempted a person. Job is the best example. Was Job truly good, or was he good because he had an easy life? haSatan was given permission to test Job's faith in God and his goodness. I'm not aware of anything Biblical that says haSatan presides over any fiery pit.

In the new Testament we see Jesus being tempted/tested by Satan during his time in the desert. Jesus passed these tests/temptations. Later we see Peter trying to talk Jesus out of putting himself in danger of death. Jesus told him he had taken on the role of Satan (the tempter/tester) and to get behind him.

The words translated into English as 'devil' or 'demon' are different from haSatan. Devils and demons are seen as liars and deceivers from the beginning, not tempters. We are told the Lake of Fire was made for these. Are you a liar and/or a deceiver?

Aren't we all liars and deceivers to some degree?

So is heaven just something good I'll be missing out on but I won't be punished for my lack of faith since hell is not for mortals, no matter how bad? Do I have that right?