He wasn't kidding: Federal agents conduct immigration enforcement raids in at least six states

[Ray From Cleveland]

Look. Do I like illegals draining our resources especially here in California? HELL NO.
However just like majority of Americans and so with GOPs like Paul Ryan or Rubio support comprehensive immigration reform.

I know tons of business owners from different kinds of enterprises from aqua farming, agricultural farming, low/high tech, building, wineries to casino owners etc etc etc. But I'll just pick 2 as an example.
1. Home care located in Hawaii, Beverly Hills and Anaheim. All these 3 only catered to *very rich* patients with lots of luxuries like round the clock RNs, physical therapist, view your love one from your iPad 24hours etc etc etc. Which btw they have a very long waiting list. All these 3 .......... no employees making less than $18, no illegals, most are asians/hispanics, only 3 whites are RNs, 1 white physical therapist......... but no blacks or whites that take care patients. Why? Few maybe but If people are not used or born to do these kind work you don't expect people would last.

2. Central California and Avocado farmers here in San Diego. Without these illegals they might as well just shut down their farms. It's as simple as that. Here are 2 (links) good examples from Georgia when they acted HB-56 against illegals.
This is the one of the reason why Trump hired foreign workers ( link below) for his vineyard in Virginia because they cannot find Americans that are willing or stay for these kind of work. Actually it's worst and cost more than $15/hour bc they have to feed and shelter these foreign workers.

NOW.......... Tell me where I'm wrong from all my post?



Ga. immigrant crackdown backfires

Georgia's Harsh Immigration Law Costs Millions in Unharvested Crops - The Atlantic

http://www.usnews.com/news/national...h-has-some-ethics-experts-worried?context=amp

Where you are wrong is stating no Americans will take these jobs. Americans will do any job for proper compensation. The problem is the consumer is too cheap and demands low prices for just about anything.

The supply and demand process is nearly perfect when it comes to jobs and employment provided we don't throw monkey wrenches into the works like unions and foreigners. Without those two things, jobs will increase in wages and Americans will take those jobs when the wages reach satisfactory levels.

I see it in my line of work constantly. Transportation companies can't find workers to do the labor for cheap, so they are bringing in foreigners instead of increasing wage and benefit offers. That's part of the problem. The other problem is our social programs that pay enough for people to live comfortably without taking those jobs.

Im not sure what proper compensation for these kind of work. How much are they willing to get paid for those kinds of work? The $18 I gave you are the starters.
I gave you 2 examples and 3 links which included Trump to prove these people are not taking these jobs.
Agree part of the problem is our social program. The other one that worries me are these kids coming out from college crap of bs majors with massive loans that can't find a high paying jobs. I have lots of these kids.

a. $18/hour ain't gonna cut it in Beverly Hills. ($3117/mo gross, $37K/yr gross). Fed local taxes? ~10%?

So you got to commute in. A good car for 1.5 hour commute is going to cost you $800/mo easily with Gas, insurance, maintenance, purchase etc. Rent is $2K. food $400/mo, daycare $1000/mo, utilities $100/mo, cable/internet/phone $200/mo? Unless you got family helping..........sharing costs. you are wiped out.

Don't forget that includes benefits like health insurance, OT etc etc etc.
I understand it's not enough to support a family but............ How much do you think these starters should get paid in order to entice others to work for these kind of places?

Good question Charwin. How much? I am no expert (of course). It depends on the area. Take SF (please), I am not even sure $50/hr is enough to drag me into that area (commute costs, forget living there, food, time etc.). I suppose if you lived way out in Antioch or some other bedroom hellhole you could get into SF within 2 hours?

But if you lived and worked in Wichita, KS, $18/hr is probably good enough to get ahead? I really don't know? I don't know how they do it........especially a family with kids? Makes no sense to send Mom out for14 hours to earn $50/day to clean motel rooms unless Grandma watches the baby? Dads' making $32K/year hourly at some crap job, driving 2 hours each way. They never get ahead? Can never save for down payment on a home for them and kids.

I do know in Silicon Valley they have private (Asian foundation type stuff). They help young Asian couples with down payments etc.

Cost of living is way more important than income. I like to watch HGTV where they buy and fix up houses. The Property Brothers is the best show for that. I'm amazed at what some of these homes cost compared to where I live. They would show a house room by room, the small yard, the garage, and I would estimate that the house costs somewhere in the 200K range. The price? 850K or more.

Several years ago I rented one of my apartments to a kid from Buffalo NY. Well...... I couldn't rent it to him because he was going to school here and didn't have a job at the time, but I did rent it to his mother so I had something to fall back on. Anyway, it's a very small house--dated but private. I changed his mother 400 a month for rent. They jumped on it.

Later he told me where he lived, that little house would rent for almost twice what I was charging him, and he stated that in NYC, my apartments would go for four to five times the cost of what I charged my tenants over here.

It all depends on where you live I guess.

 

[Flopper]

Well, if that Indian down street doesn't open that convenience store you will probably end up at a 7-11 founded by Kazuki Furuya, or a Convenience Food Mart, co-founded by the son of a Jewish immigrant, or one of the 2400 Kroger Stores founded by the son a German immigrant, or Acme Supermarket founded by an Irish immigrant, or the Market Basket Food stores founded by a Greek immigrant, or A&C markets founded by a Mexican immigrant, or one of 17,000 other grocery stores in the US founded by immigrants.

Our forefathers certainly did not share your beliefs as over 60% of the US population is 3rd generation immigrant or less including our current president and probably half of those on this board.

It's not immigration but the odds that are favoring your position:

Current and Historical Numbers and Shares
How many immigrants reside in the United States?

The U.S. immigrant population stood at more than 42.4 million, or 13.3 percent, of the total U.S. population of 318.9 million in 2014, according to ACS data. Between 2013 and 2014, the foreign-born population increased by 1 million, or 2.5 percent.

Immigrants in the United States and their U.S.-born children now number approximately 81 million people, or 26 percent of the overall U.S. population.

Frequently Requested Statistics on Immigrants and Immigration in the United States

So over one-quarter of our population are immigrants or children of immigrants. With the help WE and various organizations provide them to open up businesses, how could your figures be so surprising?

Perhaps if Trump does what he says he's going to do, and that is lower taxation and regulation on ALL businesses, then maybe we Americans would be on a more level playing field when it comes to new businesses; even more so if we quit helping immigrants and minorities.

Bottom line: immigration is not why new businesses start. They will start with or without them.

Yes, new businesses will start without immigrants, but how many. Assuming that native born Americans would start those businesses if immigrants didn't is just an assumption not supported by facts.

Native born American start new business at half rate of immigrants. And don't give all that crap about how easy it is for them. Most immigrants to the US wait months and even years to come to America. They give up their homes, jobs, friends for a chance to make it in the land of opportunity, something most native Americans just take granted. Once they get here they find they are at a disadvantage, poor English language skills and an ignorance of the culture.

However, immigrant families do have advantages over native born Americans. They are risk takers unlike most Americans and they see more business opportunities because of their background.

For example, Amadeo Giannini and his family settled in San Francisco. He sold produce for the family farm but was able and get an education and a job in a bank. He saw how hard it was for immigrants, particular Italians to borrow money to start a new small business. He suggested to the bank considering this new line of business. The partners would have no part in such a risky venture so he literally sold the family farm to open the Bank of Italy in San Francisco to service people that were being ignored by other banks. Giannini found it wasn't just Italians that couldn't borrow money at reasonable rate but most small business startups. The bank was renamed to Bank of America and later just BankAmerica. They were the first bank in the US to offer a full line of bank services to the working class. Today the bank has revenues of 86 billion dollars a year and employs 234,000.

If Giannini had not opened his bank, would someone else have done so and been so successful? That we will never know.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well, if that Indian down street doesn't open that convenience store you will probably end up at a 7-11 founded by Kazuki Furuya, or a Convenience Food Mart, co-founded by the son of a Jewish immigrant, or one of the 2400 Kroger Stores founded by the son a German immigrant, or Acme Supermarket founded by an Irish immigrant, or the Market Basket Food stores founded by a Greek immigrant, or A&C markets founded by a Mexican immigrant, or one of 17,000 other grocery stores in the US founded by immigrants.

Our forefathers certainly did not share your beliefs as over 60% of the US population is 3rd generation immigrant or less including our current president and probably half of those on this board.

It's not immigration but the odds that are favoring your position:

Current and Historical Numbers and Shares
How many immigrants reside in the United States?

The U.S. immigrant population stood at more than 42.4 million, or 13.3 percent, of the total U.S. population of 318.9 million in 2014, according to ACS data. Between 2013 and 2014, the foreign-born population increased by 1 million, or 2.5 percent.

Immigrants in the United States and their U.S.-born children now number approximately 81 million people, or 26 percent of the overall U.S. population.

Frequently Requested Statistics on Immigrants and Immigration in the United States

So over one-quarter of our population are immigrants or children of immigrants. With the help WE and various organizations provide them to open up businesses, how could your figures be so surprising?

Perhaps if Trump does what he says he's going to do, and that is lower taxation and regulation on ALL businesses, then maybe we Americans would be on a more level playing field when it comes to new businesses; even more so if we quit helping immigrants and minorities.

Bottom line: immigration is not why new businesses start. They will start with or without them.

Yes, new businesses will start without immigrants, but how many. Assuming that native born Americans would start those businesses if immigrants didn't is just an assumption not supported by facts.

Native born American start new business at half rate of immigrants. And don't give all that crap about how easy it is for them. Most immigrants to the US wait months and even years to come to America. They give up their homes, jobs, friends for a chance to make it in the land of opportunity, something most native Americans just take granted. Once they get here they find they are at a disadvantage, poor English language skills and an ignorance of the culture.

However, immigrant families do have advantages over native born Americans. They are risk takers unlike most Americans and they see more business opportunities because of their background.

For example, Amadeo Giannini and his family settled in San Francisco. He sold produce for the family farm but was able and get an education and a job in a bank. He saw how hard it was for immigrants, particular Italians to borrow money to start a new small business. He suggested to the bank considering this new line of business. The partners would have no part in such a risky venture so he literally sold the family farm to open the Bank of Italy in San Francisco to service people that were being ignored by other banks. Giannini found it wasn't just Italians that couldn't borrow money at reasonable rate but most small business startups. The bank was renamed to Bank of America and later just BankAmerica. They were the first bank in the US to offer a full line of bank services to the working class. Today the bank has revenues of 86 billion dollars a year and employs 234,000.

If Giannini had not opened his bank, would someone else have done so and been so successful? That we will never know.

Maybe not, but that business would have went to other banks. Nobody is going to stop banking because Bank of America didn't open up.

But my point is that immigrants do have an advantage over white Americans when it comes to opening up a business. Yes, some will work hard and open up that beverage store like the one I frequent. Others will try to use our welfare system for their kids or work for lower wages undercutting American workers. Many just save money and go into franchises.

If there is a need for a service, some American will open up such business. Okay, so foreigners do open more businesses per capita. So where do they get their customers from? American business owners. You're okay with that????

 

[charwin95]

Look. Do I like illegals draining our resources especially here in California? HELL NO.
However just like majority of Americans and so with GOPs like Paul Ryan or Rubio support comprehensive immigration reform.

I know tons of business owners from different kinds of enterprises from aqua farming, agricultural farming, low/high tech, building, wineries to casino owners etc etc etc. But I'll just pick 2 as an example.
1. Home care located in Hawaii, Beverly Hills and Anaheim. All these 3 only catered to *very rich* patients with lots of luxuries like round the clock RNs, physical therapist, view your love one from your iPad 24hours etc etc etc. Which btw they have a very long waiting list. All these 3 .......... no employees making less than $18, no illegals, most are asians/hispanics, only 3 whites are RNs, 1 white physical therapist......... but no blacks or whites that take care patients. Why? Few maybe but If people are not used or born to do these kind work you don't expect people would last.

2. Central California and Avocado farmers here in San Diego. Without these illegals they might as well just shut down their farms. It's as simple as that. Here are 2 (links) good examples from Georgia when they acted HB-56 against illegals.
This is the one of the reason why Trump hired foreign workers ( link below) for his vineyard in Virginia because they cannot find Americans that are willing or stay for these kind of work. Actually it's worst and cost more than $15/hour bc they have to feed and shelter these foreign workers.

NOW.......... Tell me where I'm wrong from all my post?



Ga. immigrant crackdown backfires

Georgia's Harsh Immigration Law Costs Millions in Unharvested Crops - The Atlantic

http://www.usnews.com/news/national...h-has-some-ethics-experts-worried?context=amp

Where you are wrong is stating no Americans will take these jobs. Americans will do any job for proper compensation. The problem is the consumer is too cheap and demands low prices for just about anything.

The supply and demand process is nearly perfect when it comes to jobs and employment provided we don't throw monkey wrenches into the works like unions and foreigners. Without those two things, jobs will increase in wages and Americans will take those jobs when the wages reach satisfactory levels.

I see it in my line of work constantly. Transportation companies can't find workers to do the labor for cheap, so they are bringing in foreigners instead of increasing wage and benefit offers. That's part of the problem. The other problem is our social programs that pay enough for people to live comfortably without taking those jobs.

Im not sure what proper compensation for these kind of work. How much are they willing to get paid for those kinds of work? The $18 I gave you are the starters.
I gave you 2 examples and 3 links which included Trump to prove these people are not taking these jobs.
Agree part of the problem is our social program. The other one that worries me are these kids coming out from college crap of bs majors with massive loans that can't find a high paying jobs. I have lots of these kids.

a. $18/hour ain't gonna cut it in Beverly Hills. ($3117/mo gross, $37K/yr gross). Fed local taxes? ~10%?

So you got to commute in. A good car for 1.5 hour commute is going to cost you $800/mo easily with Gas, insurance, maintenance, purchase etc. Rent is $2K. food $400/mo, daycare $1000/mo, utilities $100/mo, cable/internet/phone $200/mo? Unless you got family helping..........sharing costs. you are wiped out.

Don't forget that includes benefits like health insurance, OT etc etc etc.
I understand it's not enough to support a family but............ How much do you think these starters should get paid in order to entice others to work for these kind of places?

Good question Charwin. How much? I am no expert (of course). It depends on the area. Take SF (please), I am not even sure $50/hr is enough to drag me into that area (commute costs, forget living there, food, time etc.). I suppose if you lived way out in Antioch or some other bedroom hellhole you could get into SF within 2 hours?

But if you lived and worked in Wichita, KS, $18/hr is probably good enough to get ahead? I really don't know? I don't know how they do it........especially a family with kids? Makes no sense to send Mom out for14 hours to earn $50/day to clean motel rooms unless Grandma watches the baby? Dads' making $32K/year hourly at some crap job, driving 2 hours each way. They never get ahead? Can never save for down payment on a home for them and kids.

I do know in Silicon Valley they have private (Asian foundation type stuff). They help young Asian couples with down payments etc.

I don't have any answer either but I'm just sharing you my real life experience. Most of their workers are above 50s so I think maybe their kids are grown ups and I heard that most have other jobs.
I have several Asian friends in Palo Alto, Sunnyvale and San Jose (Silicon Valley) that works for high tech companies and city but I'm not aware that they have some kind of foundation that helps them in down payment. I also have lots of asian employees here in Southern California. I was at Palo Alto several times last year and I will fly there again next week to attend a wedding anniversary. Last Oct. one of them helped his son bought a house .................. GOOD GOD $925k 3 br house 1,450 sq/ft. its so tiny. It's a house that you will not caught me sleeping. The grocery prices and other services is so shocking compared to south ........... Not sure how/what the rest of these kids will make it especially here in California. I know that lots of them from north & central Ca are moving south towards San Bernardino & Riverside counties where new housing are still affordable $600k at least.

 

[Flopper]

Well, if that Indian down street doesn't open that convenience store you will probably end up at a 7-11 founded by Kazuki Furuya, or a Convenience Food Mart, co-founded by the son of a Jewish immigrant, or one of the 2400 Kroger Stores founded by the son a German immigrant, or Acme Supermarket founded by an Irish immigrant, or the Market Basket Food stores founded by a Greek immigrant, or A&C markets founded by a Mexican immigrant, or one of 17,000 other grocery stores in the US founded by immigrants.

Our forefathers certainly did not share your beliefs as over 60% of the US population is 3rd generation immigrant or less including our current president and probably half of those on this board.

It's not immigration but the odds that are favoring your position:

Current and Historical Numbers and Shares
How many immigrants reside in the United States?

The U.S. immigrant population stood at more than 42.4 million, or 13.3 percent, of the total U.S. population of 318.9 million in 2014, according to ACS data. Between 2013 and 2014, the foreign-born population increased by 1 million, or 2.5 percent.

Immigrants in the United States and their U.S.-born children now number approximately 81 million people, or 26 percent of the overall U.S. population.

Frequently Requested Statistics on Immigrants and Immigration in the United States

So over one-quarter of our population are immigrants or children of immigrants. With the help WE and various organizations provide them to open up businesses, how could your figures be so surprising?

Perhaps if Trump does what he says he's going to do, and that is lower taxation and regulation on ALL businesses, then maybe we Americans would be on a more level playing field when it comes to new businesses; even more so if we quit helping immigrants and minorities.

Bottom line: immigration is not why new businesses start. They will start with or without them.

Yes, new businesses will start without immigrants, but how many. Assuming that native born Americans would start those businesses if immigrants didn't is just an assumption not supported by facts.

Native born American start new business at half rate of immigrants. And don't give all that crap about how easy it is for them. Most immigrants to the US wait months and even years to come to America. They give up their homes, jobs, friends for a chance to make it in the land of opportunity, something most native Americans just take granted. Once they get here they find they are at a disadvantage, poor English language skills and an ignorance of the culture.

However, immigrant families do have advantages over native born Americans. They are risk takers unlike most Americans and they see more business opportunities because of their background.

For example, Amadeo Giannini and his family settled in San Francisco. He sold produce for the family farm but was able and get an education and a job in a bank. He saw how hard it was for immigrants, particular Italians to borrow money to start a new small business. He suggested to the bank considering this new line of business. The partners would have no part in such a risky venture so he literally sold the family farm to open the Bank of Italy in San Francisco to service people that were being ignored by other banks. Giannini found it wasn't just Italians that couldn't borrow money at reasonable rate but most small business startups. The bank was renamed to Bank of America and later just BankAmerica. They were the first bank in the US to offer a full line of bank services to the working class. Today the bank has revenues of 86 billion dollars a year and employs 234,000.

If Giannini had not opened his bank, would someone else have done so and been so successful? That we will never know.

Maybe not, but that business would have went to other banks. Nobody is going to stop banking because Bank of America didn't open up.

But my point is that immigrants do have an advantage over white Americans when it comes to opening up a business. Yes, some will work hard and open up that beverage store like the one I frequent. Others will try to use our welfare system for their kids or work for lower wages undercutting American workers. Many just save money and go into franchises.

If there is a need for a service, some American will open up such business. Okay, so foreigners do open more businesses per capita. So where do they get their customers from? American business owners. You're okay with that????

The problem in 1905 was banks were institutions that served established businesses and the wealthy. They didn't loan money to small startups, particular those operated by immigrants. Giannini saw that there was opportunity there because he was part of that immigrant community.

A young Mexican came to this country 30 years ago to work in the fields. After some years he got permanent residency and became a US citizen a few years later. He began working for a produce shipper and bought out the business. He noticed how berries were being damaged by the containers being used which cut deeply into the farmers profits so he developed a corrugated carton similar to what some farmers use in Mexico which would stand shipping and rough handling. Today, he has a large business operating in a half dozens states.

A Nigerian who immigrated from the UK, wanted to start an Internet retail business but wasn't exactly sure who he wanted to market his products. After visiting a family member in Nigeria, he noted problems they had ordering products from the US. There were problems with currency exchange, delivery, and credit card acceptance. He decided he would open his business in the US selling US and UK products to Africans, guaranteeing delivery, and accepting all currencies from African countries. His business, Mall for Africa in just 3 years grew sales to over 17 million and expanded from a two man business operating out of his bedroom to a new facility with over 20 employees.

These people and millions of others like them brought to America unique knowledge of markets, techniques, and cultures that allows them to see opportunities that Americans overlook.

 

[Flopper]

Where you are wrong is stating no Americans will take these jobs. Americans will do any job for proper compensation. The problem is the consumer is too cheap and demands low prices for just about anything.

The supply and demand process is nearly perfect when it comes to jobs and employment provided we don't throw monkey wrenches into the works like unions and foreigners. Without those two things, jobs will increase in wages and Americans will take those jobs when the wages reach satisfactory levels.

I see it in my line of work constantly. Transportation companies can't find workers to do the labor for cheap, so they are bringing in foreigners instead of increasing wage and benefit offers. That's part of the problem. The other problem is our social programs that pay enough for people to live comfortably without taking those jobs.

Im not sure what proper compensation for these kind of work. How much are they willing to get paid for those kinds of work? The $18 I gave you are the starters.
I gave you 2 examples and 3 links which included Trump to prove these people are not taking these jobs.
Agree part of the problem is our social program. The other one that worries me are these kids coming out from college crap of bs majors with massive loans that can't find a high paying jobs. I have lots of these kids.

a. $18/hour ain't gonna cut it in Beverly Hills. ($3117/mo gross, $37K/yr gross). Fed local taxes? ~10%?

So you got to commute in. A good car for 1.5 hour commute is going to cost you $800/mo easily with Gas, insurance, maintenance, purchase etc. Rent is $2K. food $400/mo, daycare $1000/mo, utilities $100/mo, cable/internet/phone $200/mo? Unless you got family helping..........sharing costs. you are wiped out.

Don't forget that includes benefits like health insurance, OT etc etc etc.
I understand it's not enough to support a family but............ How much do you think these starters should get paid in order to entice others to work for these kind of places?

Good question Charwin. How much? I am no expert (of course). It depends on the area. Take SF (please), I am not even sure $50/hr is enough to drag me into that area (commute costs, forget living there, food, time etc.). I suppose if you lived way out in Antioch or some other bedroom hellhole you could get into SF within 2 hours?

But if you lived and worked in Wichita, KS, $18/hr is probably good enough to get ahead? I really don't know? I don't know how they do it........especially a family with kids? Makes no sense to send Mom out for14 hours to earn $50/day to clean motel rooms unless Grandma watches the baby? Dads' making $32K/year hourly at some crap job, driving 2 hours each way. They never get ahead? Can never save for down payment on a home for them and kids.

I do know in Silicon Valley they have private (Asian foundation type stuff). They help young Asian couples with down payments etc.

I don't have any answer either but I'm just sharing you my real life experience. Most of their workers are above 50s so I think maybe their kids are grown ups and I heard that most have other jobs.
I have several Asian friends in Palo Alto, Sunnyvale and San Jose (Silicon Valley) that works for high tech companies and city but I'm not aware that they have some kind of foundation that helps them in down payment. I also have lots of asian employees here in Southern California. I was at Palo Alto several times last year and I will fly there again next week to attend a wedding anniversary. Last Oct. one of them helped his son bought a house .................. GOOD GOD $925k 3 br house 1,450 sq/ft. its so tiny. It's a house that you will not caught me sleeping. The grocery prices and other services is so shocking compared to south ........... Not sure how/what the rest of these kids will make it especially here in California. I know that lots of them from north & central Ca are moving south towards San Bernardino & Riverside counties where new housing are still affordable $600k at least.

Silicon Valley has just about the highest housing costs in the country but the salaries are high also. The average software engineer makes about $150K but may go as high as $400K

 

[Flopper]

Where you are wrong is stating no Americans will take these jobs. Americans will do any job for proper compensation. The problem is the consumer is too cheap and demands low prices for just about anything.

The supply and demand process is nearly perfect when it comes to jobs and employment provided we don't throw monkey wrenches into the works like unions and foreigners. Without those two things, jobs will increase in wages and Americans will take those jobs when the wages reach satisfactory levels.

I see it in my line of work constantly. Transportation companies can't find workers to do the labor for cheap, so they are bringing in foreigners instead of increasing wage and benefit offers. That's part of the problem. The other problem is our social programs that pay enough for people to live comfortably without taking those jobs.

Im not sure what proper compensation for these kind of work. How much are they willing to get paid for those kinds of work? The $18 I gave you are the starters.
I gave you 2 examples and 3 links which included Trump to prove these people are not taking these jobs.
Agree part of the problem is our social program. The other one that worries me are these kids coming out from college crap of bs majors with massive loans that can't find a high paying jobs. I have lots of these kids.

a. $18/hour ain't gonna cut it in Beverly Hills. ($3117/mo gross, $37K/yr gross). Fed local taxes? ~10%?

So you got to commute in. A good car for 1.5 hour commute is going to cost you $800/mo easily with Gas, insurance, maintenance, purchase etc. Rent is $2K. food $400/mo, daycare $1000/mo, utilities $100/mo, cable/internet/phone $200/mo? Unless you got family helping..........sharing costs. you are wiped out.

Don't forget that includes benefits like health insurance, OT etc etc etc.
I understand it's not enough to support a family but............ How much do you think these starters should get paid in order to entice others to work for these kind of places?

Good question Charwin. How much? I am no expert (of course). It depends on the area. Take SF (please), I am not even sure $50/hr is enough to drag me into that area (commute costs, forget living there, food, time etc.). I suppose if you lived way out in Antioch or some other bedroom hellhole you could get into SF within 2 hours?

But if you lived and worked in Wichita, KS, $18/hr is probably good enough to get ahead? I really don't know? I don't know how they do it........especially a family with kids? Makes no sense to send Mom out for14 hours to earn $50/day to clean motel rooms unless Grandma watches the baby? Dads' making $32K/year hourly at some crap job, driving 2 hours each way. They never get ahead? Can never save for down payment on a home for them and kids.

I do know in Silicon Valley they have private (Asian foundation type stuff). They help young Asian couples with down payments etc.

Cost of living is way more important than income. I like to watch HGTV where they buy and fix up houses. The Property Brothers is the best show for that. I'm amazed at what some of these homes cost compared to where I live. They would show a house room by room, the small yard, the garage, and I would estimate that the house costs somewhere in the 200K range. The price? 850K or more.

Several years ago I rented one of my apartments to a kid from Buffalo NY. Well...... I couldn't rent it to him because he was going to school here and didn't have a job at the time, but I did rent it to his mother so I had something to fall back on. Anyway, it's a very small house--dated but private. I changed his mother 400 a month for rent. They jumped on it.

Later he told me where he lived, that little house would rent for almost twice what I was charging him, and he stated that in NYC, my apartments would go for four to five times the cost of what I charged my tenants over here.

It all depends on where you live I guess.

I have realities that live in a small town in Oklahoma. They have a two bedroom cottage that rents for $300/mo. In my town it would rent for at least S1,000.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well, if that Indian down street doesn't open that convenience store you will probably end up at a 7-11 founded by Kazuki Furuya, or a Convenience Food Mart, co-founded by the son of a Jewish immigrant, or one of the 2400 Kroger Stores founded by the son a German immigrant, or Acme Supermarket founded by an Irish immigrant, or the Market Basket Food stores founded by a Greek immigrant, or A&C markets founded by a Mexican immigrant, or one of 17,000 other grocery stores in the US founded by immigrants.

Our forefathers certainly did not share your beliefs as over 60% of the US population is 3rd generation immigrant or less including our current president and probably half of those on this board.

It's not immigration but the odds that are favoring your position:

Current and Historical Numbers and Shares
How many immigrants reside in the United States?

The U.S. immigrant population stood at more than 42.4 million, or 13.3 percent, of the total U.S. population of 318.9 million in 2014, according to ACS data. Between 2013 and 2014, the foreign-born population increased by 1 million, or 2.5 percent.

Immigrants in the United States and their U.S.-born children now number approximately 81 million people, or 26 percent of the overall U.S. population.

Frequently Requested Statistics on Immigrants and Immigration in the United States

So over one-quarter of our population are immigrants or children of immigrants. With the help WE and various organizations provide them to open up businesses, how could your figures be so surprising?

Perhaps if Trump does what he says he's going to do, and that is lower taxation and regulation on ALL businesses, then maybe we Americans would be on a more level playing field when it comes to new businesses; even more so if we quit helping immigrants and minorities.

Bottom line: immigration is not why new businesses start. They will start with or without them.

Yes, new businesses will start without immigrants, but how many. Assuming that native born Americans would start those businesses if immigrants didn't is just an assumption not supported by facts.

Native born American start new business at half rate of immigrants. And don't give all that crap about how easy it is for them. Most immigrants to the US wait months and even years to come to America. They give up their homes, jobs, friends for a chance to make it in the land of opportunity, something most native Americans just take granted. Once they get here they find they are at a disadvantage, poor English language skills and an ignorance of the culture.

However, immigrant families do have advantages over native born Americans. They are risk takers unlike most Americans and they see more business opportunities because of their background.

For example, Amadeo Giannini and his family settled in San Francisco. He sold produce for the family farm but was able and get an education and a job in a bank. He saw how hard it was for immigrants, particular Italians to borrow money to start a new small business. He suggested to the bank considering this new line of business. The partners would have no part in such a risky venture so he literally sold the family farm to open the Bank of Italy in San Francisco to service people that were being ignored by other banks. Giannini found it wasn't just Italians that couldn't borrow money at reasonable rate but most small business startups. The bank was renamed to Bank of America and later just BankAmerica. They were the first bank in the US to offer a full line of bank services to the working class. Today the bank has revenues of 86 billion dollars a year and employs 234,000.

If Giannini had not opened his bank, would someone else have done so and been so successful? That we will never know.

Maybe not, but that business would have went to other banks. Nobody is going to stop banking because Bank of America didn't open up.

But my point is that immigrants do have an advantage over white Americans when it comes to opening up a business. Yes, some will work hard and open up that beverage store like the one I frequent. Others will try to use our welfare system for their kids or work for lower wages undercutting American workers. Many just save money and go into franchises.

If there is a need for a service, some American will open up such business. Okay, so foreigners do open more businesses per capita. So where do they get their customers from? American business owners. You're okay with that????

The problem in 1905 was banks were institutions that served established businesses and the wealthy. They didn't loan money to small startups, particular those operated by immigrants. Giannini saw that there was opportunity there because he was part of that immigrant community.

A young Mexican came to this country 30 years ago to work in the fields. After some years he got permanent residency and became a US citizen a few years later. He began working for a produce shipper and bought out the business. He noticed how berries were being damaged by the containers being used which cut deeply into the farmers profits so he developed a corrugated carton similar to what some farmers use in Mexico which would stand shipping and rough handling. Today, he has a large business operating in a half dozens states.

A Nigerian who immigrated from the UK, wanted to start an Internet retail business but wasn't exactly sure who he wanted to market his products. After visiting a family member in Nigeria, he noted problems they had ordering products from the US. There were problems with currency exchange, delivery, and credit card acceptance. He decided he would open his business in the US selling US and UK products to Africans, guaranteeing delivery, and accepting all currencies from African countries. His business, Mall for Africa in just 3 years grew sales to over 17 million and expanded from a two man business operating out of his bedroom to a new facility with over 20 employees.

These people and millions of others like them brought to America unique knowledge of markets, techniques, and cultures that allows them to see opportunities that Americans overlook.

Yes, I know that happens, but your insinuation is that we can't do without immigrants. I disagree.

I look at it this way: Years ago in a short news week, the Ohio lottery posted an article that went around claiming that most people that won the lottery won using Auto-lotto where the machine picks the numbers for you. Doing some research, I found that most lottery players used auto-lotto, so it only stands to reason more people would win the lottery by having the machine pick the numbers. It's just the odds--not that the machine is doing anything different than picking the numbers yourself.

As my earlier article pointed out, immigrants and their children are over 80 million people in this country, so again, it stands to reason they would open up a good share of businesses. It's not like businesses wouldn't open up without them, but because of their population size and various extra help they get from government and private agencies, they do open up a good share of businesses.

My point is that even if we closed down the border and didn't let anybody in for a while, we wouldn't suffer any. Businesses would still open up; some successful and most failing, and our country wouldn't miss those immigrants one bit.

 

[Flopper]

Well, if that Indian down street doesn't open that convenience store you will probably end up at a 7-11 founded by Kazuki Furuya, or a Convenience Food Mart, co-founded by the son of a Jewish immigrant, or one of the 2400 Kroger Stores founded by the son a German immigrant, or Acme Supermarket founded by an Irish immigrant, or the Market Basket Food stores founded by a Greek immigrant, or A&C markets founded by a Mexican immigrant, or one of 17,000 other grocery stores in the US founded by immigrants.

Our forefathers certainly did not share your beliefs as over 60% of the US population is 3rd generation immigrant or less including our current president and probably half of those on this board.

It's not immigration but the odds that are favoring your position:

Current and Historical Numbers and Shares
How many immigrants reside in the United States?

The U.S. immigrant population stood at more than 42.4 million, or 13.3 percent, of the total U.S. population of 318.9 million in 2014, according to ACS data. Between 2013 and 2014, the foreign-born population increased by 1 million, or 2.5 percent.

Immigrants in the United States and their U.S.-born children now number approximately 81 million people, or 26 percent of the overall U.S. population.

Frequently Requested Statistics on Immigrants and Immigration in the United States

So over one-quarter of our population are immigrants or children of immigrants. With the help WE and various organizations provide them to open up businesses, how could your figures be so surprising?

Perhaps if Trump does what he says he's going to do, and that is lower taxation and regulation on ALL businesses, then maybe we Americans would be on a more level playing field when it comes to new businesses; even more so if we quit helping immigrants and minorities.

Bottom line: immigration is not why new businesses start. They will start with or without them.

Yes, new businesses will start without immigrants, but how many. Assuming that native born Americans would start those businesses if immigrants didn't is just an assumption not supported by facts.

Native born American start new business at half rate of immigrants. And don't give all that crap about how easy it is for them. Most immigrants to the US wait months and even years to come to America. They give up their homes, jobs, friends for a chance to make it in the land of opportunity, something most native Americans just take granted. Once they get here they find they are at a disadvantage, poor English language skills and an ignorance of the culture.

However, immigrant families do have advantages over native born Americans. They are risk takers unlike most Americans and they see more business opportunities because of their background.

For example, Amadeo Giannini and his family settled in San Francisco. He sold produce for the family farm but was able and get an education and a job in a bank. He saw how hard it was for immigrants, particular Italians to borrow money to start a new small business. He suggested to the bank considering this new line of business. The partners would have no part in such a risky venture so he literally sold the family farm to open the Bank of Italy in San Francisco to service people that were being ignored by other banks. Giannini found it wasn't just Italians that couldn't borrow money at reasonable rate but most small business startups. The bank was renamed to Bank of America and later just BankAmerica. They were the first bank in the US to offer a full line of bank services to the working class. Today the bank has revenues of 86 billion dollars a year and employs 234,000.

If Giannini had not opened his bank, would someone else have done so and been so successful? That we will never know.

Maybe not, but that business would have went to other banks. Nobody is going to stop banking because Bank of America didn't open up.

But my point is that immigrants do have an advantage over white Americans when it comes to opening up a business. Yes, some will work hard and open up that beverage store like the one I frequent. Others will try to use our welfare system for their kids or work for lower wages undercutting American workers. Many just save money and go into franchises.

If there is a need for a service, some American will open up such business. Okay, so foreigners do open more businesses per capita. So where do they get their customers from? American business owners. You're okay with that????

The problem in 1905 was banks were institutions that served established businesses and the wealthy. They didn't loan money to small startups, particular those operated by immigrants. Giannini saw that there was opportunity there because he was part of that immigrant community.

A young Mexican came to this country 30 years ago to work in the fields. After some years he got permanent residency and became a US citizen a few years later. He began working for a produce shipper and bought out the business. He noticed how berries were being damaged by the containers being used which cut deeply into the farmers profits so he developed a corrugated carton similar to what some farmers use in Mexico which would stand shipping and rough handling. Today, he has a large business operating in a half dozens states.

A Nigerian who immigrated from the UK, wanted to start an Internet retail business but wasn't exactly sure who he wanted to market his products. After visiting a family member in Nigeria, he noted problems they had ordering products from the US. There were problems with currency exchange, delivery, and credit card acceptance. He decided he would open his business in the US selling US and UK products to Africans, guaranteeing delivery, and accepting all currencies from African countries. His business, Mall for Africa in just 3 years grew sales to over 17 million and expanded from a two man business operating out of his bedroom to a new facility with over 20 employees.

These people and millions of others like them brought to America unique knowledge of markets, techniques, and cultures that allows them to see opportunities that Americans overlook.

Yes, I know that happens, but your insinuation is that we can't do without immigrants. I disagree.

I look at it this way: Years ago in a short news week, the Ohio lottery posted an article that went around claiming that most people that won the lottery won using Auto-lotto where the machine picks the numbers for you. Doing some research, I found that most lottery players used auto-lotto, so it only stands to reason more people would win the lottery by having the machine pick the numbers. It's just the odds--not that the machine is doing anything different than picking the numbers yourself.

As my earlier article pointed out, immigrants and their children are over 80 million people in this country, so again, it stands to reason they would open up a good share of businesses. It's not like businesses wouldn't open up without them, but because of their population size and various extra help they get from government and private agencies, they do open up a good share of businesses.

My point is that even if we closed down the border and didn't let anybody in for a while, we wouldn't suffer any. Businesses would still open up; some successful and most failing, and our country wouldn't miss those immigrants one bit.

You're saying close the borders for a while. That's a different proposition than saying we don't need immigrants in this country. Over the short term closing our boarders to immigrants would create issues but certainly not insurmountable problems.

However, even closing our boarders for a short term would send the country into a recession. As we isolated ourselves from other nations, they would respond respond in a similar manner. Trade would fall off because you can't restrict travel between nations without hurting trade. Billions of dollars in exports and imports would disappear. Huge corporations based in the US like GE, McDonald, Coca Cola that derive 60% to 70% of their revenues from abroad would certainly question whether they should be headquartered in a nation pursuing isolationism.

As America isolated itself, Russia and China would become the dominate forces in the world, economically and militarily.

There is an argument that can be made for isolating the US from the rest of world but I can see no argument for doing it for a short time. It would just create social and economic chaos.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It's not immigration but the odds that are favoring your position:

Current and Historical Numbers and Shares
How many immigrants reside in the United States?

The U.S. immigrant population stood at more than 42.4 million, or 13.3 percent, of the total U.S. population of 318.9 million in 2014, according to ACS data. Between 2013 and 2014, the foreign-born population increased by 1 million, or 2.5 percent.

Immigrants in the United States and their U.S.-born children now number approximately 81 million people, or 26 percent of the overall U.S. population.

Frequently Requested Statistics on Immigrants and Immigration in the United States

So over one-quarter of our population are immigrants or children of immigrants. With the help WE and various organizations provide them to open up businesses, how could your figures be so surprising?

Perhaps if Trump does what he says he's going to do, and that is lower taxation and regulation on ALL businesses, then maybe we Americans would be on a more level playing field when it comes to new businesses; even more so if we quit helping immigrants and minorities.

Bottom line: immigration is not why new businesses start. They will start with or without them.

Yes, new businesses will start without immigrants, but how many. Assuming that native born Americans would start those businesses if immigrants didn't is just an assumption not supported by facts.

Native born American start new business at half rate of immigrants. And don't give all that crap about how easy it is for them. Most immigrants to the US wait months and even years to come to America. They give up their homes, jobs, friends for a chance to make it in the land of opportunity, something most native Americans just take granted. Once they get here they find they are at a disadvantage, poor English language skills and an ignorance of the culture.

However, immigrant families do have advantages over native born Americans. They are risk takers unlike most Americans and they see more business opportunities because of their background.

For example, Amadeo Giannini and his family settled in San Francisco. He sold produce for the family farm but was able and get an education and a job in a bank. He saw how hard it was for immigrants, particular Italians to borrow money to start a new small business. He suggested to the bank considering this new line of business. The partners would have no part in such a risky venture so he literally sold the family farm to open the Bank of Italy in San Francisco to service people that were being ignored by other banks. Giannini found it wasn't just Italians that couldn't borrow money at reasonable rate but most small business startups. The bank was renamed to Bank of America and later just BankAmerica. They were the first bank in the US to offer a full line of bank services to the working class. Today the bank has revenues of 86 billion dollars a year and employs 234,000.

If Giannini had not opened his bank, would someone else have done so and been so successful? That we will never know.

Maybe not, but that business would have went to other banks. Nobody is going to stop banking because Bank of America didn't open up.

But my point is that immigrants do have an advantage over white Americans when it comes to opening up a business. Yes, some will work hard and open up that beverage store like the one I frequent. Others will try to use our welfare system for their kids or work for lower wages undercutting American workers. Many just save money and go into franchises.

If there is a need for a service, some American will open up such business. Okay, so foreigners do open more businesses per capita. So where do they get their customers from? American business owners. You're okay with that????

The problem in 1905 was banks were institutions that served established businesses and the wealthy. They didn't loan money to small startups, particular those operated by immigrants. Giannini saw that there was opportunity there because he was part of that immigrant community.

A young Mexican came to this country 30 years ago to work in the fields. After some years he got permanent residency and became a US citizen a few years later. He began working for a produce shipper and bought out the business. He noticed how berries were being damaged by the containers being used which cut deeply into the farmers profits so he developed a corrugated carton similar to what some farmers use in Mexico which would stand shipping and rough handling. Today, he has a large business operating in a half dozens states.

A Nigerian who immigrated from the UK, wanted to start an Internet retail business but wasn't exactly sure who he wanted to market his products. After visiting a family member in Nigeria, he noted problems they had ordering products from the US. There were problems with currency exchange, delivery, and credit card acceptance. He decided he would open his business in the US selling US and UK products to Africans, guaranteeing delivery, and accepting all currencies from African countries. His business, Mall for Africa in just 3 years grew sales to over 17 million and expanded from a two man business operating out of his bedroom to a new facility with over 20 employees.

These people and millions of others like them brought to America unique knowledge of markets, techniques, and cultures that allows them to see opportunities that Americans overlook.

Yes, I know that happens, but your insinuation is that we can't do without immigrants. I disagree.

I look at it this way: Years ago in a short news week, the Ohio lottery posted an article that went around claiming that most people that won the lottery won using Auto-lotto where the machine picks the numbers for you. Doing some research, I found that most lottery players used auto-lotto, so it only stands to reason more people would win the lottery by having the machine pick the numbers. It's just the odds--not that the machine is doing anything different than picking the numbers yourself.

As my earlier article pointed out, immigrants and their children are over 80 million people in this country, so again, it stands to reason they would open up a good share of businesses. It's not like businesses wouldn't open up without them, but because of their population size and various extra help they get from government and private agencies, they do open up a good share of businesses.

My point is that even if we closed down the border and didn't let anybody in for a while, we wouldn't suffer any. Businesses would still open up; some successful and most failing, and our country wouldn't miss those immigrants one bit.

You're saying close the borders for a while. That's a different proposition than saying we don't need immigrants in this country. Over the short term closing our boarders to immigrants would create issues but certainly not insurmountable problems.

However, even closing our boarders for a short term would send the country into a recession. As we isolated ourselves from other nations, they would respond respond in a similar manner. Trade would fall off because you can't restrict travel between nations without hurting trade. Billions of dollars in exports and imports would disappear. Huge corporations based in the US like GE, McDonald, Coca Cola that derive 60% to 70% of their revenues from abroad would certainly question whether they should be headquartered in a nation pursuing isolationism.

As America isolated itself, Russia and China would become the dominate forces in the world, economically and militarily.

There is an argument that can be made for isolating the US from the rest of world but I can see no argument for doing it for a short time. It would just create social and economic chaos.

Stopping immigration and isolation are two different things. As you said, isolation would be a disaster, but putting a stop to immigration for a few years wouldn't hurt us one bit. We could still have plenty of trade, still have plenty of jobs, and maybe put Americans to work first instead of the other way around.

 

[Flopper]

Yes, new businesses will start without immigrants, but how many. Assuming that native born Americans would start those businesses if immigrants didn't is just an assumption not supported by facts.

Native born American start new business at half rate of immigrants. And don't give all that crap about how easy it is for them. Most immigrants to the US wait months and even years to come to America. They give up their homes, jobs, friends for a chance to make it in the land of opportunity, something most native Americans just take granted. Once they get here they find they are at a disadvantage, poor English language skills and an ignorance of the culture.

However, immigrant families do have advantages over native born Americans. They are risk takers unlike most Americans and they see more business opportunities because of their background.

For example, Amadeo Giannini and his family settled in San Francisco. He sold produce for the family farm but was able and get an education and a job in a bank. He saw how hard it was for immigrants, particular Italians to borrow money to start a new small business. He suggested to the bank considering this new line of business. The partners would have no part in such a risky venture so he literally sold the family farm to open the Bank of Italy in San Francisco to service people that were being ignored by other banks. Giannini found it wasn't just Italians that couldn't borrow money at reasonable rate but most small business startups. The bank was renamed to Bank of America and later just BankAmerica. They were the first bank in the US to offer a full line of bank services to the working class. Today the bank has revenues of 86 billion dollars a year and employs 234,000.

If Giannini had not opened his bank, would someone else have done so and been so successful? That we will never know.

Maybe not, but that business would have went to other banks. Nobody is going to stop banking because Bank of America didn't open up.

But my point is that immigrants do have an advantage over white Americans when it comes to opening up a business. Yes, some will work hard and open up that beverage store like the one I frequent. Others will try to use our welfare system for their kids or work for lower wages undercutting American workers. Many just save money and go into franchises.

If there is a need for a service, some American will open up such business. Okay, so foreigners do open more businesses per capita. So where do they get their customers from? American business owners. You're okay with that????

The problem in 1905 was banks were institutions that served established businesses and the wealthy. They didn't loan money to small startups, particular those operated by immigrants. Giannini saw that there was opportunity there because he was part of that immigrant community.

A young Mexican came to this country 30 years ago to work in the fields. After some years he got permanent residency and became a US citizen a few years later. He began working for a produce shipper and bought out the business. He noticed how berries were being damaged by the containers being used which cut deeply into the farmers profits so he developed a corrugated carton similar to what some farmers use in Mexico which would stand shipping and rough handling. Today, he has a large business operating in a half dozens states.

A Nigerian who immigrated from the UK, wanted to start an Internet retail business but wasn't exactly sure who he wanted to market his products. After visiting a family member in Nigeria, he noted problems they had ordering products from the US. There were problems with currency exchange, delivery, and credit card acceptance. He decided he would open his business in the US selling US and UK products to Africans, guaranteeing delivery, and accepting all currencies from African countries. His business, Mall for Africa in just 3 years grew sales to over 17 million and expanded from a two man business operating out of his bedroom to a new facility with over 20 employees.

These people and millions of others like them brought to America unique knowledge of markets, techniques, and cultures that allows them to see opportunities that Americans overlook.

Yes, I know that happens, but your insinuation is that we can't do without immigrants. I disagree.

I look at it this way: Years ago in a short news week, the Ohio lottery posted an article that went around claiming that most people that won the lottery won using Auto-lotto where the machine picks the numbers for you. Doing some research, I found that most lottery players used auto-lotto, so it only stands to reason more people would win the lottery by having the machine pick the numbers. It's just the odds--not that the machine is doing anything different than picking the numbers yourself.

As my earlier article pointed out, immigrants and their children are over 80 million people in this country, so again, it stands to reason they would open up a good share of businesses. It's not like businesses wouldn't open up without them, but because of their population size and various extra help they get from government and private agencies, they do open up a good share of businesses.

My point is that even if we closed down the border and didn't let anybody in for a while, we wouldn't suffer any. Businesses would still open up; some successful and most failing, and our country wouldn't miss those immigrants one bit.

You're saying close the borders for a while. That's a different proposition than saying we don't need immigrants in this country. Over the short term closing our boarders to immigrants would create issues but certainly not insurmountable problems.

However, even closing our boarders for a short term would send the country into a recession. As we isolated ourselves from other nations, they would respond respond in a similar manner. Trade would fall off because you can't restrict travel between nations without hurting trade. Billions of dollars in exports and imports would disappear. Huge corporations based in the US like GE, McDonald, Coca Cola that derive 60% to 70% of their revenues from abroad would certainly question whether they should be headquartered in a nation pursuing isolationism.

As America isolated itself, Russia and China would become the dominate forces in the world, economically and militarily.

There is an argument that can be made for isolating the US from the rest of world but I can see no argument for doing it for a short time. It would just create social and economic chaos.

Stopping immigration and isolation are two different things. As you said, isolation would be a disaster, but putting a stop to immigration for a few years wouldn't hurt us one bit. We could still have plenty of trade, still have plenty of jobs, and maybe put Americans to work first instead of the other way around.

When you say stop immigration, what do you mean?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Maybe not, but that business would have went to other banks. Nobody is going to stop banking because Bank of America didn't open up.

But my point is that immigrants do have an advantage over white Americans when it comes to opening up a business. Yes, some will work hard and open up that beverage store like the one I frequent. Others will try to use our welfare system for their kids or work for lower wages undercutting American workers. Many just save money and go into franchises.

If there is a need for a service, some American will open up such business. Okay, so foreigners do open more businesses per capita. So where do they get their customers from? American business owners. You're okay with that????

The problem in 1905 was banks were institutions that served established businesses and the wealthy. They didn't loan money to small startups, particular those operated by immigrants. Giannini saw that there was opportunity there because he was part of that immigrant community.

A young Mexican came to this country 30 years ago to work in the fields. After some years he got permanent residency and became a US citizen a few years later. He began working for a produce shipper and bought out the business. He noticed how berries were being damaged by the containers being used which cut deeply into the farmers profits so he developed a corrugated carton similar to what some farmers use in Mexico which would stand shipping and rough handling. Today, he has a large business operating in a half dozens states.

A Nigerian who immigrated from the UK, wanted to start an Internet retail business but wasn't exactly sure who he wanted to market his products. After visiting a family member in Nigeria, he noted problems they had ordering products from the US. There were problems with currency exchange, delivery, and credit card acceptance. He decided he would open his business in the US selling US and UK products to Africans, guaranteeing delivery, and accepting all currencies from African countries. His business, Mall for Africa in just 3 years grew sales to over 17 million and expanded from a two man business operating out of his bedroom to a new facility with over 20 employees.

These people and millions of others like them brought to America unique knowledge of markets, techniques, and cultures that allows them to see opportunities that Americans overlook.

Yes, I know that happens, but your insinuation is that we can't do without immigrants. I disagree.

I look at it this way: Years ago in a short news week, the Ohio lottery posted an article that went around claiming that most people that won the lottery won using Auto-lotto where the machine picks the numbers for you. Doing some research, I found that most lottery players used auto-lotto, so it only stands to reason more people would win the lottery by having the machine pick the numbers. It's just the odds--not that the machine is doing anything different than picking the numbers yourself.

As my earlier article pointed out, immigrants and their children are over 80 million people in this country, so again, it stands to reason they would open up a good share of businesses. It's not like businesses wouldn't open up without them, but because of their population size and various extra help they get from government and private agencies, they do open up a good share of businesses.

My point is that even if we closed down the border and didn't let anybody in for a while, we wouldn't suffer any. Businesses would still open up; some successful and most failing, and our country wouldn't miss those immigrants one bit.

You're saying close the borders for a while. That's a different proposition than saying we don't need immigrants in this country. Over the short term closing our boarders to immigrants would create issues but certainly not insurmountable problems.

However, even closing our boarders for a short term would send the country into a recession. As we isolated ourselves from other nations, they would respond respond in a similar manner. Trade would fall off because you can't restrict travel between nations without hurting trade. Billions of dollars in exports and imports would disappear. Huge corporations based in the US like GE, McDonald, Coca Cola that derive 60% to 70% of their revenues from abroad would certainly question whether they should be headquartered in a nation pursuing isolationism.

As America isolated itself, Russia and China would become the dominate forces in the world, economically and militarily.

There is an argument that can be made for isolating the US from the rest of world but I can see no argument for doing it for a short time. It would just create social and economic chaos.

Stopping immigration and isolation are two different things. As you said, isolation would be a disaster, but putting a stop to immigration for a few years wouldn't hurt us one bit. We could still have plenty of trade, still have plenty of jobs, and maybe put Americans to work first instead of the other way around.

When you say stop immigration, what do you mean?

It means stop letting foreigners come here to work and live. Until American wages increase, we have more Americans working, when we return back to a single language country, then we can think about letting foreigners back in.

 

[Flopper]

The problem in 1905 was banks were institutions that served established businesses and the wealthy. They didn't loan money to small startups, particular those operated by immigrants. Giannini saw that there was opportunity there because he was part of that immigrant community.

A young Mexican came to this country 30 years ago to work in the fields. After some years he got permanent residency and became a US citizen a few years later. He began working for a produce shipper and bought out the business. He noticed how berries were being damaged by the containers being used which cut deeply into the farmers profits so he developed a corrugated carton similar to what some farmers use in Mexico which would stand shipping and rough handling. Today, he has a large business operating in a half dozens states.

A Nigerian who immigrated from the UK, wanted to start an Internet retail business but wasn't exactly sure who he wanted to market his products. After visiting a family member in Nigeria, he noted problems they had ordering products from the US. There were problems with currency exchange, delivery, and credit card acceptance. He decided he would open his business in the US selling US and UK products to Africans, guaranteeing delivery, and accepting all currencies from African countries. His business, Mall for Africa in just 3 years grew sales to over 17 million and expanded from a two man business operating out of his bedroom to a new facility with over 20 employees.

These people and millions of others like them brought to America unique knowledge of markets, techniques, and cultures that allows them to see opportunities that Americans overlook.

Yes, I know that happens, but your insinuation is that we can't do without immigrants. I disagree.

I look at it this way: Years ago in a short news week, the Ohio lottery posted an article that went around claiming that most people that won the lottery won using Auto-lotto where the machine picks the numbers for you. Doing some research, I found that most lottery players used auto-lotto, so it only stands to reason more people would win the lottery by having the machine pick the numbers. It's just the odds--not that the machine is doing anything different than picking the numbers yourself.

As my earlier article pointed out, immigrants and their children are over 80 million people in this country, so again, it stands to reason they would open up a good share of businesses. It's not like businesses wouldn't open up without them, but because of their population size and various extra help they get from government and private agencies, they do open up a good share of businesses.

My point is that even if we closed down the border and didn't let anybody in for a while, we wouldn't suffer any. Businesses would still open up; some successful and most failing, and our country wouldn't miss those immigrants one bit.

You're saying close the borders for a while. That's a different proposition than saying we don't need immigrants in this country. Over the short term closing our boarders to immigrants would create issues but certainly not insurmountable problems.

However, even closing our boarders for a short term would send the country into a recession. As we isolated ourselves from other nations, they would respond respond in a similar manner. Trade would fall off because you can't restrict travel between nations without hurting trade. Billions of dollars in exports and imports would disappear. Huge corporations based in the US like GE, McDonald, Coca Cola that derive 60% to 70% of their revenues from abroad would certainly question whether they should be headquartered in a nation pursuing isolationism.

As America isolated itself, Russia and China would become the dominate forces in the world, economically and militarily.

There is an argument that can be made for isolating the US from the rest of world but I can see no argument for doing it for a short time. It would just create social and economic chaos.

Stopping immigration and isolation are two different things. As you said, isolation would be a disaster, but putting a stop to immigration for a few years wouldn't hurt us one bit. We could still have plenty of trade, still have plenty of jobs, and maybe put Americans to work first instead of the other way around.

When you say stop immigration, what do you mean?

It means stop letting foreigners come here to work and live. Until American wages increase, we have more Americans working, when we return back to a single language country, then we can think about letting foreigners back in.

That doesn't make sense to me. If stopping foreigners from working in the US would cause wages to rise then letting them comeback would push wages back down again. Right?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yes, I know that happens, but your insinuation is that we can't do without immigrants. I disagree.

I look at it this way: Years ago in a short news week, the Ohio lottery posted an article that went around claiming that most people that won the lottery won using Auto-lotto where the machine picks the numbers for you. Doing some research, I found that most lottery players used auto-lotto, so it only stands to reason more people would win the lottery by having the machine pick the numbers. It's just the odds--not that the machine is doing anything different than picking the numbers yourself.

As my earlier article pointed out, immigrants and their children are over 80 million people in this country, so again, it stands to reason they would open up a good share of businesses. It's not like businesses wouldn't open up without them, but because of their population size and various extra help they get from government and private agencies, they do open up a good share of businesses.

My point is that even if we closed down the border and didn't let anybody in for a while, we wouldn't suffer any. Businesses would still open up; some successful and most failing, and our country wouldn't miss those immigrants one bit.

You're saying close the borders for a while. That's a different proposition than saying we don't need immigrants in this country. Over the short term closing our boarders to immigrants would create issues but certainly not insurmountable problems.

However, even closing our boarders for a short term would send the country into a recession. As we isolated ourselves from other nations, they would respond respond in a similar manner. Trade would fall off because you can't restrict travel between nations without hurting trade. Billions of dollars in exports and imports would disappear. Huge corporations based in the US like GE, McDonald, Coca Cola that derive 60% to 70% of their revenues from abroad would certainly question whether they should be headquartered in a nation pursuing isolationism.

As America isolated itself, Russia and China would become the dominate forces in the world, economically and militarily.

There is an argument that can be made for isolating the US from the rest of world but I can see no argument for doing it for a short time. It would just create social and economic chaos.

Stopping immigration and isolation are two different things. As you said, isolation would be a disaster, but putting a stop to immigration for a few years wouldn't hurt us one bit. We could still have plenty of trade, still have plenty of jobs, and maybe put Americans to work first instead of the other way around.

When you say stop immigration, what do you mean?

It means stop letting foreigners come here to work and live. Until American wages increase, we have more Americans working, when we return back to a single language country, then we can think about letting foreigners back in.

That doesn't make sense to me. If stopping foreigners from working in the US would cause wages to rise then letting them comeback would push wages back down again. Right?

Yes it would, but not as far down as they are now. The median family income has been stagnant for the last decade. Once we can get that back on track, we may be able to stir up enough economic activity to produce real jobs--not minimum wage or part-time jobs.

Getting rid of Obama Care will be a good step in that direction. Employers wouldn't have that burden to deal with; making sure they keep under the 50 full-time employee limit by making more part-time jobs or hiring foreigners since they don't count as part of that 50 employee limit.

 

[P@triot]

More idiot hatriots out of a job. Less money for the hatriot cause. Trump delivering on all of the winning he promised...

‘You and your family are fired ... Love you’: Dozens lose jobs over immigrant protest

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

More idiot hatriots out of a job. Less money for the hatriot cause. Trump delivering on all of the winning he promised...

‘You and your family are fired ... Love you’: Dozens lose jobs over immigrant protest

That's the way it should be.

 

[Flopper]

You're saying close the borders for a while. That's a different proposition than saying we don't need immigrants in this country. Over the short term closing our boarders to immigrants would create issues but certainly not insurmountable problems.

However, even closing our boarders for a short term would send the country into a recession. As we isolated ourselves from other nations, they would respond respond in a similar manner. Trade would fall off because you can't restrict travel between nations without hurting trade. Billions of dollars in exports and imports would disappear. Huge corporations based in the US like GE, McDonald, Coca Cola that derive 60% to 70% of their revenues from abroad would certainly question whether they should be headquartered in a nation pursuing isolationism.

As America isolated itself, Russia and China would become the dominate forces in the world, economically and militarily.

There is an argument that can be made for isolating the US from the rest of world but I can see no argument for doing it for a short time. It would just create social and economic chaos.

Stopping immigration and isolation are two different things. As you said, isolation would be a disaster, but putting a stop to immigration for a few years wouldn't hurt us one bit. We could still have plenty of trade, still have plenty of jobs, and maybe put Americans to work first instead of the other way around.

When you say stop immigration, what do you mean?

It means stop letting foreigners come here to work and live. Until American wages increase, we have more Americans working, when we return back to a single language country, then we can think about letting foreigners back in.

That doesn't make sense to me. If stopping foreigners from working in the US would cause wages to rise then letting them comeback would push wages back down again. Right?

Yes it would, but not as far down as they are now. The median family income has been stagnant for the last decade. Once we can get that back on track, we may be able to stir up enough economic activity to produce real jobs--not minimum wage or part-time jobs.

Getting rid of Obama Care will be a good step in that direction. Employers wouldn't have that burden to deal with; making sure they keep under the 50 full-time employee limit by making more part-time jobs or hiring foreigners since they don't count as part of that 50 employee limit.

There are approximately 12 million lawful permanent resident working in the US. This is 1 in 14 every employees. I really don't see how their presence would make much difference in what people are paid. There is certainly not enough to significantly alter the supply of workers and since they are legal there's no reason to believe that they would work at a lower rate.

Consider also that there about 8 or 9 million Americans working abroad. Suppose other countries matched the US by sending Americans back home to work.

 

[Indeependent]

Stopping immigration and isolation are two different things. As you said, isolation would be a disaster, but putting a stop to immigration for a few years wouldn't hurt us one bit. We could still have plenty of trade, still have plenty of jobs, and maybe put Americans to work first instead of the other way around.

When you say stop immigration, what do you mean?

It means stop letting foreigners come here to work and live. Until American wages increase, we have more Americans working, when we return back to a single language country, then we can think about letting foreigners back in.

That doesn't make sense to me. If stopping foreigners from working in the US would cause wages to rise then letting them comeback would push wages back down again. Right?

Yes it would, but not as far down as they are now. The median family income has been stagnant for the last decade. Once we can get that back on track, we may be able to stir up enough economic activity to produce real jobs--not minimum wage or part-time jobs.

Getting rid of Obama Care will be a good step in that direction. Employers wouldn't have that burden to deal with; making sure they keep under the 50 full-time employee limit by making more part-time jobs or hiring foreigners since they don't count as part of that 50 employee limit.

There are approximately 12 million lawful permanent resident working in the US. This is 1 in 14 every employees. I really don't see how their presence would make much difference in what people are paid. There is certainly not enough to significantly alter the supply of workers and since they are legal there's no reason to believe that they would work at a lower rate.

Consider also that there about 8 or 9 million Americans working abroad. Suppose other countries matched the US by sending Americans back home to work.

Uh huh.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Stopping immigration and isolation are two different things. As you said, isolation would be a disaster, but putting a stop to immigration for a few years wouldn't hurt us one bit. We could still have plenty of trade, still have plenty of jobs, and maybe put Americans to work first instead of the other way around.

When you say stop immigration, what do you mean?

It means stop letting foreigners come here to work and live. Until American wages increase, we have more Americans working, when we return back to a single language country, then we can think about letting foreigners back in.

That doesn't make sense to me. If stopping foreigners from working in the US would cause wages to rise then letting them comeback would push wages back down again. Right?

Yes it would, but not as far down as they are now. The median family income has been stagnant for the last decade. Once we can get that back on track, we may be able to stir up enough economic activity to produce real jobs--not minimum wage or part-time jobs.

Getting rid of Obama Care will be a good step in that direction. Employers wouldn't have that burden to deal with; making sure they keep under the 50 full-time employee limit by making more part-time jobs or hiring foreigners since they don't count as part of that 50 employee limit.

There are approximately 12 million lawful permanent resident working in the US. This is 1 in 14 every employees. I really don't see how their presence would make much difference in what people are paid. There is certainly not enough to significantly alter the supply of workers and since they are legal there's no reason to believe that they would work at a lower rate.

Consider also that there about 8 or 9 million Americans working abroad. Suppose other countries matched the US by sending Americans back home to work.

Not that difficult really. If employers have the ability to hold out for lower pay, they will. Up to 2014, the amount of new jobs created equaled the amount of immigrants that took employment in this country. Your figure included all employment positions. However, if you look at the jobs immigrants are only capable of doing, it works out to much more than 1out of ever 14 employees.

 

[Indeependent]

Stopping immigration and isolation are two different things. As you said, isolation would be a disaster, but putting a stop to immigration for a few years wouldn't hurt us one bit. We could still have plenty of trade, still have plenty of jobs, and maybe put Americans to work first instead of the other way around.

When you say stop immigration, what do you mean?

It means stop letting foreigners come here to work and live. Until American wages increase, we have more Americans working, when we return back to a single language country, then we can think about letting foreigners back in.

That doesn't make sense to me. If stopping foreigners from working in the US would cause wages to rise then letting them comeback would push wages back down again. Right?

Yes it would, but not as far down as they are now. The median family income has been stagnant for the last decade. Once we can get that back on track, we may be able to stir up enough economic activity to produce real jobs--not minimum wage or part-time jobs.

Getting rid of Obama Care will be a good step in that direction. Employers wouldn't have that burden to deal with; making sure they keep under the 50 full-time employee limit by making more part-time jobs or hiring foreigners since they don't count as part of that 50 employee limit.

There are approximately 12 million lawful permanent resident working in the US. This is 1 in 14 every employees. I really don't see how their presence would make much difference in what people are paid. There is certainly not enough to significantly alter the supply of workers and since they are legal there's no reason to believe that they would work at a lower rate.

Consider also that there about 8 or 9 million Americans working abroad. Suppose other countries matched the US by sending Americans back home to work.

And several million Business Visas that were laid off in 2008 or got their Green Cards and got laid off.
The Business Visas weren't sent home.
Guess what jobs these "Best and Brightest" got?