"Health is a right"

[Redfish]

I think I'll quit working and demand my rights to food, housing, healthcare. Is sex on the list yet or should I hold out?

Would it make you feel better if people said not that it's a right (it isn't), it's just a really really really good and decent thing for a society to do? It's also very cost-effective. A well nation is a productive and even a secure nation. Sick people don't work or fight well.

but that begs the real question-----------who pays for it?

Everyone who can. Pretty simple. It sure works for the Armed Services. They are always well-funded.

who decides "who can" ? Do we disband the military in order to give everyone free medical care? There is only so much govt income and we annually overspend and are currently 20 trillion in debt because of it.

 

[Redfish]

What kind of right is it?

The kind of a right John McCain has to health care for his brain tumor, only, common folk won't have as much of a right to such great health care as he.

good point, and one that most on the left fail to understand. The elites have the "right" to medical care at virtually no cost to them.

Bullshit. Nobody has a right to health care. It is a service which is supposed to be paid for by somebody. The fact that the gov't has authorized programs and policies to help people pay for health care does not mean it is a right.

you missed my point, the elites have created a "right" the only applies to them.

 

[RightyTighty]

All rights are granted by the government because the government decides what will or will not BE a right.

Wrong and stupid. But right along your mental abilities.

Did the government not decide that freedom of the press was a right?

No, the Founders who wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights. NOT the gov't. No President or Congress decided that any of our freedoms was a right.

The government the Founders founded granted you your rights. This isn't a difficult thing to understand. The reason why they could take away your right to drink (and give it back again later) is because - wait for it, they have the ability ti decide what is and isn't a - right.

And all rights have limitations BTW. Also not a hard thing to understand in a nation that can take your "right" to breath.

What nonsense. The CONSTITUTION upon which the gov't was founded SPECIFIES our rights, not the freakin' gov't. It isn't difficult thing to understand, but I'll spell it out in simple terms: THE US GOV'T CANNOT GRANT RIGHTS. ANY RIGHTS. IT DOES NOT HAVE THE POWER TO DO THAT BECAUSE THAT POWER IS NOT GRANTED TO THE US GOV'T UNDER THE CONSTITUTION. How much clearer can I be?

Let me see if I can help you get the horse before the cart. The Constitution, once ratified, established the nation, the state. The state then wrote the Bill of Rights (12 amendments) and when, two and a half years later ten of those were also ratified, the government had then established your rights, the rights you refer to when you say I have a right to ______. Since the state can and does modify those rights it's pretty damn obvious where your rights come from, the state.

Case in point - prohibition. They took a right away and then granted it back. The government in action.

 

[task0778]

Wrong and stupid. But right along your mental abilities.

Did the government not decide that freedom of the press was a right?

No, the Founders who wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights. NOT the gov't. No President or Congress decided that any of our freedoms was a right.

The government the Founders founded granted you your rights. This isn't a difficult thing to understand. The reason why they could take away your right to drink (and give it back again later) is because - wait for it, they have the ability ti decide what is and isn't a - right.

And all rights have limitations BTW. Also not a hard thing to understand in a nation that can take your "right" to breath.

What nonsense. The CONSTITUTION upon which the gov't was founded SPECIFIES our rights, not the freakin' gov't. It isn't difficult thing to understand, but I'll spell it out in simple terms: THE US GOV'T CANNOT GRANT RIGHTS. ANY RIGHTS. IT DOES NOT HAVE THE POWER TO DO THAT BECAUSE THAT POWER IS NOT GRANTED TO THE US GOV'T UNDER THE CONSTITUTION. How much clearer can I be?

Wrong!

I have a right to bear arms as well. In fact, I've written my local representative that they need to buy a gun for me.

Swing and a miss, where was I wrong? The Constitution says you have a right to keep and bear arms but it doesn't say the gov't has to provide you with any kind of weapon. I totally missed your point.

 

[PredFan]

1. Prohibition was an overreach by the government and was repealed. They did not grant us the right to drink. They took their unlawful restriction on our rights away.

It wasn't legislation it was a constitutional amendment ratified by the states.

Correct. Still wasn't a right granted by the government.

All rights are granted by the government because the government decides what will or will not BE a right.

Wrong and stupid. But right along your mental abilities.

Did the government not decide that freedom of the press was a right?

We are talking individuals here, the press isn't an individual. It's apples and oranges

 

[RightyTighty]

I think I'll quit working and demand my rights to food, housing, healthcare. Is sex on the list yet or should I hold out?

Would it make you feel better if people said not that it's a right (it isn't), it's just a really really really good and decent thing for a society to do? It's also very cost-effective. A well nation is a productive and even a secure nation. Sick people don't work or fight well.

but that begs the real question-----------who pays for it?

Everyone who can. Pretty simple. It sure works for the Armed Services. They are always well-funded.

who decides "who can" ? Do we disband the military in order to give everyone free medical care? There is only so much govt income and we annually overspend and are currently 20 trillion in debt because of it.

We already have the money, already spend the money, we just don't get a good bang for our buck. Works like this, when you see the doc you hand him your national healthcare card and we'll send him a check. Simple and don't be clogging up the ER unless it's an emergency. Common fucking sense.

 

[task0778]

What kind of right is it?

The kind of a right John McCain has to health care for his brain tumor, only, common folk won't have as much of a right to such great health care as he.

good point, and one that most on the left fail to understand. The elites have the "right" to medical care at virtually no cost to them.

Bullshit. Nobody has a right to health care. It is a service which is supposed to be paid for by somebody. The fact that the gov't has authorized programs and policies to help people pay for health care does not mean it is a right.

you missed my point, the elites have created a "right" the only applies to them.

I am disputing your point, the elites did NOT create a right that only applies to them. No such right exists, with respect to health care or anything else.

 

[PredFan]

Correct. Still wasn't a right granted by the government.

All rights are granted by the government because the government decides what will or will not BE a right.

Wrong and stupid. But right along your mental abilities.

The government granted you the right to bear arms didn't it?

No idiot. that was already a right, the British tried to take it away. That's why it's there.

It is there because without the government recognizing it as a right, and therefore taking government action to secure it as a right,

it wouldn't be your right, except perhaps in your imagination.

You never get smarter.

 

[RightyTighty]

It wasn't legislation it was a constitutional amendment ratified by the states.

Correct. Still wasn't a right granted by the government.

All rights are granted by the government because the government decides what will or will not BE a right.

Wrong and stupid. But right along your mental abilities.

Did the government not decide that freedom of the press was a right?

We are talking individuals here, the press isn't an individual. It's apples and oranges

The Press is - one who owns one. With the Internet we are all reporters now.

 

[PredFan]

It wasn't legislation it was a constitutional amendment ratified by the states.

Correct. Still wasn't a right granted by the government.

All rights are granted by the government because the government decides what will or will not BE a right.

Wrong and stupid. But right along your mental abilities.

Did the government not decide that freedom of the press was a right?

He must think that God wrote the Second Amendment. Probably the only one he knows.

Dumb and Dumber, together again. How nice.

 

[NYcarbineer]

All rights are granted by the government because the government decides what will or will not BE a right.

Wrong and stupid. But right along your mental abilities.

Did the government not decide that freedom of the press was a right?

No, the Founders who wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights. NOT the gov't. No President or Congress decided that any of our freedoms was a right.

The government the Founders founded granted you your rights. This isn't a difficult thing to understand. The reason why they could take away your right to drink (and give it back again later) is because - wait for it, they have the ability ti decide what is and isn't a - right.

And all rights have limitations BTW. Also not a hard thing to understand in a nation that can take your "right" to breath.

What nonsense. The CONSTITUTION upon which the gov't was founded SPECIFIES our rights, not the freakin' gov't.

The Constitution is a GOVERNMENT document creating a GOVERNMENT that implements and enforces the articles of said Constitution.

 

[NYcarbineer]

All rights are granted by the government because the government decides what will or will not BE a right.

Wrong and stupid. But right along your mental abilities.

The government granted you the right to bear arms didn't it?

No idiot. that was already a right, the British tried to take it away. That's why it's there.

It is there because without the government recognizing it as a right, and therefore taking government action to secure it as a right,

it wouldn't be your right, except perhaps in your imagination.

You never get smarter.

You never substantively refute anything I say.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It wasn't legislation it was a constitutional amendment ratified by the states.

Correct. Still wasn't a right granted by the government.

All rights are granted by the government because the government decides what will or will not BE a right.

Wrong and stupid. But right along your mental abilities.

Did the government not decide that freedom of the press was a right?

We are talking individuals here, the press isn't an individual. It's apples and oranges

A religion isn't an individual either. Are you saying that freedom of religion is not a right?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Nobody has answered yet. Who decided what our 'inalienable rights' are?

 

[RightyTighty]

I have to remember to ask God (or Nature) why they granted Americans the right to vote at 18? Guns I get (God loves guns and violence) but voting at 18? Shoot, they shouldn't even be driving yet.

 

[RightyTighty]

Nobody has answered yet. Who decided what our 'inalienable rights' are?

There's an inalienable right here, in a nation that kills, legally, its own citizens? That's a neat trick.

 

[Chuz Life]

Aside from the first ten Amendments to the Constitution aka the Bill of Rights which do not mention health care, the Founding Fathers listed the duties of the government in the Preamble in a couple of words "to provide for the common defense and promote the general welfare". Notice the FF didn't say "provide for the general welfare and promote the common defense".

The health of our nation's people is an integral part of our defense, aka our national security.

Maybe so but since when does a national "need" become or translate to being an "individual" right?

 

[Iceweasel]

I think I'll quit working and demand my rights to food, housing, healthcare. Is sex on the list yet or should I hold out?

Would it make you feel better if people said not that it's a right (it isn't), it's just a really really really good and decent thing for a society to do? It's also very cost-effective. A well nation is a productive and even a secure nation. Sick people don't work or fight well.

I'm looking forward to spending your money. Thanks!

You already do or at least, my money was spent on you. That's how it works. Money doesn't grow on trees.

I'm not dead yet though so you need to dig deeper.

 

[task0778]

Wrong and stupid. But right along your mental abilities.

Did the government not decide that freedom of the press was a right?

No, the Founders who wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights. NOT the gov't. No President or Congress decided that any of our freedoms was a right.

The government the Founders founded granted you your rights. This isn't a difficult thing to understand. The reason why they could take away your right to drink (and give it back again later) is because - wait for it, they have the ability ti decide what is and isn't a - right.

And all rights have limitations BTW. Also not a hard thing to understand in a nation that can take your "right" to breath.

What nonsense. The CONSTITUTION upon which the gov't was founded SPECIFIES our rights, not the freakin' gov't. It isn't difficult thing to understand, but I'll spell it out in simple terms: THE US GOV'T CANNOT GRANT RIGHTS. ANY RIGHTS. IT DOES NOT HAVE THE POWER TO DO THAT BECAUSE THAT POWER IS NOT GRANTED TO THE US GOV'T UNDER THE CONSTITUTION. How much clearer can I be?

Let me see if I can help you get the horse before the cart. The Constitution, once ratified, established the nation, the state. The state then wrote the Bill of Rights (12 amendments) and when, two and a half years later ten of those were also ratified, the government had then established your rights, the rights you refer to when you say I have a right to ______. Since the state can and does modify those rights it's pretty damn obvious where your rights come from, the state.

Case in point - prohibition. They took a right away and then granted it back. The government in action.

Not sure I would classify getting wasted is a right, basically it was a product determined to be unhealthy and unwise to allow it's use. Just because people can take some action doesn't automatically mean they have a right to do it, it only means the gov't at whatever level hasn't yet decided whether it's a safe and healthy thing to allow. In any case it was a misuse of power that got rectified. And modifying a right to limit it's scope is not the same thing as granting a right, nor does ratifying the BoR for mean that the gov't granted those rights because they already existed. All they did was codify them.

 

[Iceweasel]

Wrong and stupid. But right along your mental abilities.

Did the government not decide that freedom of the press was a right?

No, the Founders who wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights. NOT the gov't. No President or Congress decided that any of our freedoms was a right.

The government the Founders founded granted you your rights. This isn't a difficult thing to understand. The reason why they could take away your right to drink (and give it back again later) is because - wait for it, they have the ability ti decide what is and isn't a - right.

And all rights have limitations BTW. Also not a hard thing to understand in a nation that can take your "right" to breath.

What nonsense. The CONSTITUTION upon which the gov't was founded SPECIFIES our rights, not the freakin' gov't. It isn't difficult thing to understand, but I'll spell it out in simple terms: THE US GOV'T CANNOT GRANT RIGHTS. ANY RIGHTS. IT DOES NOT HAVE THE POWER TO DO THAT BECAUSE THAT POWER IS NOT GRANTED TO THE US GOV'T UNDER THE CONSTITUTION. How much clearer can I be?

Let me see if I can help you get the horse before the cart. The Constitution, once ratified, established the nation, the state. The state then wrote the Bill of Rights (12 amendments) and when, two and a half years later ten of those were also ratified, the government had then established your rights, the rights you refer to when you say I have a right to ______. Since the state can and does modify those rights it's pretty damn obvious where your rights come from, the state.

Case in point - prohibition. They took a right away and then granted it back. The government in action.

You are confusing the recognition of a right with gifting it from on high. This is a republic so they work for us. Protecting rights isn't a gift from the state.