Here's How Arabs INTEROGATE People....

[jreeves]

Clearly you are no better than they are.

And clearly you don't know the damage torture does.

Its wrong. We are a nation of laws.

But please continue defending the indefensable. Its winning you all kinds of elections.

I thank God America said no to the right wing way of leading this nation.

Clearly you entirely miss the point.

Clearly you miss the point because it clearly points out your liberal hypocrisy.

Clearly you're incapable of responding without spinning and redirecting.

You're a partisan hack and a troll.

I'm pretty sure my reply was right on the money. Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean the point wasn't made.

What point were you trying to make that I missed? You're suggesting that there are evil people in the world and so us liberals don't get it that we have to sink to their level if we are ever to defeat them. Isn't that about right? You want us to be able to torture because our enemies will torture us. Right?

I get it. I just disagree. The Brits were tortured by the Germans in WW2, yet Churchill didn't torture German prisoners.

We are better than that. You, Bush and Wiwwow might not be better than that, but thats why we voted your party/kind out of office.

I was in Atlanta during 9-11. What a fucking joke. The idea that we would let red necks lead this nation is amazing to me. They are not the brightest people in our country. You should have heard them. Let's nuke me, turn Afganistan into a parking lot.

All your ideas are mob mentality type ideas. You are not only stupid but immoral. I care more about Iraqi innocent civilians than I do your kind.

Just like you probably think we'd be better off without arabs, I think we'd be better off without ppl like you.

Might not be better than JfK either?
U.S. Army and CIA interrogation manuals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The U.S. Army and CIA interrogation manuals are seven controversial military training manuals which were declassified by the Pentagon in 1996. In 1997, two additional CIA manuals were declassified in response to a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request filed by the Baltimore Sun. The manuals in question have been referred to as "the Torture Manuals" by many US media sources.

The first manual, "KUBARK Counterintelligence Interrogation," dated July 1963, is the source of much of the material in the second manual. KUBARK was a U.S. Central Intelligence Agency cryptonym for the CIA itself.[12] The cryptonym KUBARK appears in the title of a 1963 CIA document KUBARK Counterintelligence Interrogation which describes interrogation techniques, including, among other things, "coercive counterintelligence interrogation of resistant sources". This is the oldest and most abusive manual, such as two references to the use of electric shock.
Both manuals deal exclusively with interrogation. [13][14] Both manuals have an entire chapter devoted to "coercive techniques." These manuals recommend arresting suspects early in the morning by surprise, blindfolding them, and stripping them naked. Suspects should be held incommunicado and should be deprived of any kind of normal routine in eating and sleeping. Interrogation rooms should be windowless, soundproof, dark and without toilets.
The manuals advise that torture techniques can backfire and that the threat of pain is often more effective than pain itself. The manuals describe coercive techniques to be used "to induce psychological regression in the subject by bringing a superior outside force to bear on his will to resist." These techniques include prolonged constraint, prolonged exertion, extremes of heat, cold, or moisture, deprivation of food or sleep, disrupting routines, solitary confinement, threats of pain, deprivation of sensory stimuli, hypnosis, and use of drugs or placebos.

 

[Newby]

Here Newby, here's my original post. Read the bolded words:

Here's how the US tortures people:

and...

I think that many of you who support torturing enemy combatants/terrorist suspects feel angry, and that's understandable. I think you hate the people who attacked the US. I think you fear another attack, one which may directly affect you. I think this causes you to feel hatred, and therefore little remorse about how these people are treated. I suspect it has less to do with saving Americans' lives so much as it has to do with that hatred you feel. You want these fuckers to pay. You want revenge.

But that doesn't make it right. Hopefully, the people in position to do something to ensure that we never torture people again can remain more level-headed and therefore more true to the founding principles of this nation than you. That's one of the reasons there is a system of checks in balances in the government: so that even if a majority of Americans want something that isn't right, it doesn't happen.

You lied about the pictures you posted, it's really quite simple. The first picture wasn't any American torturing anyone. The second picture was considered illegal, and the people that committed the crime were tried and found guilty. Yet you are still insisting that it's a picture of the U.S. government torturing prisoners? It's a lie whether you want to call it so or not.

Once again I have to repeat myself in the hopes that I somehow get through to you:
I wrote "Here's how the US tortures people" not here IS the US torturing people. I wasn't lying. In fact, everyone else who read my post and then your post has agreed that I wasn't lying. Has that gotten through to you? I doubt it...

And the first picture is an American torturing someone, its just that the victim is a volunteer so it doesn't really count. But it is HOW the US has tortured people.



Why do you feel sorry for me? Because I don't blindly believe that the US is a perfect country? That the US government and its agents are all without any flaw or fault? That the US has never done anything to piss off people of other cultures to the point that they would feel the need to attack the US? That the US has never meddled in the affairs of sovereign nations for its own interests? Why does that make you feel sorry for me?

Do you not read my posts? I said that I thought what the terrorists have done is wrong. Their actions are wrong. Their methods, I said, are wrong. Their perspective...well, that's different. Who am I to judge that the way these extremists see things is wrong? God? Whose God, yours or theirs?

I don't feel sorry for you. Perhaps if your eyes were openned and you realized that the US government has assassinated people, bombed innocent people and children, trained and armed the Taliban to fight the Russians, trained and armed Saddam's army in its war against Iran (in which many thousands, perhaps even a million people died), assisted in kicking the Palestinians out of their homeland (which had been theirs for over a thousand years), not too mention the atrocities the US has committed in its wars in Central America and Columbia, and you went through a period of intense depression upon realizing just how imperialistic (sometimes violently) the US has been in the last 150 years - perhaps then I would feel sorry for you. But, right now, I just think you're blindly nationalistic to a fault, refusing to remove your head from the sand, and ignorant of history, particularly recent US history.

So, that second picture was U.S. sanctioned torture, which was exactly what his comments implied? I'm sick of the game playing you people do with words and pictures. You can't make an argument unless you lie, imply, mislead, or take what people say or do out of context, which is what he did.

I didn't take anything out of context, Newby, you did. You have misconstrued what I said as an outright and intentional falsehood when it was neither of those, as I and others on here have attempted to convey to you. But, you refuse to believe anyone or anything you don't want to, and that's your perrogative. And it makes you, in some ways, similar to the Islamic extremists who refuse to believe that what they are doing, when they murder people, is wrong.

When he can have an adult conversation and not be ashamed of his own country and not give what he apparently sees as rational arguments for why terrorists kill innocent people across the globe, then he might be worth listening too. But, I highly doubt it.

Like I said, already once before, I don't condone, excuse, or justify the actions of those people who committed acts of terrorism, or terrorism in general. I even wrote that those convicted of committing or plotting to commit acts of terrorism should be locked away for the rest of their lives. I'm not ashamed of my country, I'm just ashamed of some of the things its done.

But you don't want, as you even admitted above, to listen to that. You'd rather believe that the US is guilt-free. You'd rather believe that the terrorists hate our freedom and have never been provoked by the US into reacting violently as they do. You'd rather believe that the people at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo aren't human beings. Ever heard of compassion? I think it talks about it in the ancient book of Jewish fairy tales that you literally believe as immutable truth. In my opinion, you could really do with a big dose of compassion. How do I know? Cause the Bible tells me so. But You'd rather believe that I am a liar and disreputable because I'm not unreasonably nationalistic. Well, people believe what they want to and there's no changing that unless that person is ready to have a more open mind about the realities of the world around them. And you, apparently, are not ready to have an open mind or to learn about things which may challenge your perception of the world.

Well, I don't feel sorry for a complacent, happy little ignoramus who judges and justifies dehumanizing people just so she can remain complacent and oblivious. Even your God doesn't approve of that.

You certainly are full of yourself, aren't you? Every post you make is a book, wonder why that is?

The second picture that you posted is not HOW the US tortures people, you lied. I don't need three paragraphs to explain that. It's pretty cut and dried, actually.

I understand you much better than you know, CMM. I know that you think 'the' enemy is the conservative Christian and that that group is the beginning and ending of all evils in the world. I know how you feel about your country, you don't need to spell it out. I know how you excuse everyone else's behavior because they're just 'poor' people taken advantage of by the evil imperialist conservative Christian nation, the United States. There is no evil in the world, it's just people lashing back at being kept down and abused by the imperialist U.S. Well, wait, you do believe in evil, but only if it's the conservative Christian, every other group gets a pass from you. And especially American conservative Christians, I'm sure they're much more evil than say European conservative Christians. You're an open book, and you've been indoctrinated well.

You are one of the most sanctimonious judgmental persons I've ever had the displeasure to come across. You're too smart for God, you've got it all figured out in that smug little brain of yours and anyone that feels or believes differently than you do are just a bunch of 'complacent and oblivious ignoramuses'. Yet you're too damn stupid to look in the mirror and recognize that what you described is yourself.

 

[Iriemon]

Resolved? Really? How? All you did was give a conflicting view. And because it was done in writing, that is suppose to give it credence? The sad fact is, we'll never know the resolution to this and MANY MANY other issues...because we'll only be able to throw conflicting articles back and forth.

The only way to resolve this is within yourself. I can't change your thoughts any more than you can change mine. I believe it does work. Not always...the individual being interrogated is the factor that determines that.

Frustrating isn't it?

an oped and two partisan liar sites
LOL
FAIL

Given KOS it's bullshit. Given media matters ditto.

Sure. Same as CNSNews. And thanks guys, for helping me proving my point against Burp. I couldn't have said it better. Using a bias source, or even three of them, to prove a fact is not very persuasive argument, is it?

The points you expressed are exactly why Burp citing a CNSNews article supposedly "verifying" that torture prevented an attack is a FAIL, as Divecon put it.

Given that your FBI guy speaks only to one individual and not all of them - All three of them - and given the continuing turf and funding battles between the FBI and the CIA I'm unconvinced of his verity.

Same as I'm unconvinced about how useful the torture really was in supposedly preventing another attack.

 

[Newby]

I've posted this thought before and it seems to be needed again...

consider the implications ------


Some of you say that it's useless to interrogate anyone because it doesn't work ( which has already been proven that it does ) and makes us look like a mean and ugly nation...that we should be nice and kind and gentle in hopes that our new found moral standards will somehow keep those who have demonstrated hatred for us for decades to not kill us anymore. How am I doing so far?

We should back the leader of the free world who now has positioned us as an even larger target with no ability to fight back. No ability to thwart attacks. No sense of national pride. No moral obligation to it's own people. The only obligation we hold fast to as of now is to the world. US citizens be damned. Because we have been such a horrible nation for so long, we must now lay down our weapons and accept the beating we deserve and take it with dignity. And, from this, we shall rise up years later, a more understanding and less evil nation with only good will for all and from all.

So, here's the logic I see here...( I use the term VERY lightly ) while we're at it, let's take all the guns from the police. No more tazers, no more night sticks, no more pepper spray, no more riot gear...and for GOD'S SAKE!!! NO MORE LOCK UP...Let's open all the jails that house the killers, rapists, robbers and psychos and let's just be nice to them and hope that they will be nice back and stop killing and raping and robbing and taking our children. Sounds like a wonderful utopia to me.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

You certainly are full of yourself, aren't you? Every post you make is a book, wonder why that is?

The reason some of my posts are so long is that I have an opinion which dullards like you need spelled out and repeated in order to understand it. Not that that works anyway.

The second picture that you posted is not HOW the US tortures people, you lied. I don't need three paragraphs to explain that. It's pretty cut and dried, actually.

Is that a US soldier in the photo? Is that a terrorist suspect or insurgent in the photo? Is the US soldier torturing the man of Middle Eastern descent in the photo? Yes? So then it is how the US tortures people.

I understand you much better than you know, CMM.

....oh, I can tell this is going to be brilliant!

I know that you think 'the' enemy is the conservative Christian and that that group is the beginning and ending of all evils in the world.

Already, you're wrong, and I thought you knew me so well! I do think greed and dogma are 'evils' which cause people harm. I think religious extremism is an 'evil', so that includes Islam, Christian, etc. etc.

I know how you feel about your country, you don't need to spell it out. I know how you excuse everyone else's behavior because they're just 'poor' people taken advantage of by the evil imperialist conservative Christian nation, the United States. There is no evil in the world, it's just people lashing back at being kept down and abused by the imperialist U.S. Well, wait, you do believe in evil, but only if it's the conservative Christian, every other group gets a pass from you. And especially American conservative Christians, I'm sure they're much more evil than say European conservative Christians. You're an open book, and you've been indoctrinated well.

Yeah....

You are one of the most sanctimonious judgmental persons I've ever had the displeasure to come across.

Uh huh. Take a look in the mirror if you want to see sanctimonious and judgemental. You are convinced you're beliefs are the only true ones and have judged the suspects at Gitmo as guilty. And you're passing judgement on me right now. Do you know the definition of the word: hypocrite.

You're too smart for God,

I'll take that as a compliment.

you've got it all figured out in that smug little brain of yours

No, I don't, that's why I'm an agnostic: so I can re-evaluate my opinions and perceptions upon new discoveries.

and anyone that feels or believes differently than you do are just a bunch of 'complacent and oblivious ignoramuses'.

No, just you Newby.

Yet you're too damn stupid to look in the mirror and recognize that what you described is yourself.

Yeah, good one. I just looked in the mirror this morning and all I saw was a man who, not only looks good , but who feels lost and overwhelmed by the inhumanity of his own species. And you're one of those people who weigh on my hope for humankind, who drag down my optimism, and darken even the sunniest of Spring days for me.

 

[tigerbob]

I don't recall anybody dying due to the enhanced interrogations. Plus, those techniques were deemed legal.

In fact, I don't think anyone said anyone about legalizing killing someone to get information.

But, to play along - of course I don't want to legalize that. But, if you ended up killing "me" to save your child, I would bey money (and probably win) that you wouldn't be prosecuted.


I bet you wouldn't be prosecuted.

Deemed legal by those who committed the acts. That is like saying that bank robbery is legal because D. B. Cooper said it was legal or murder is legal because Charles Manson said murder was legal.

Immie

I think it is a stretch to compare D.B. Cooper and Charles Manson to the Department of Justice.

A stretch yes, but it would to a degree depend on who you ask.

 

[DiveCon]

Resolved? Really? How? All you did was give a conflicting view. And because it was done in writing, that is suppose to give it credence? The sad fact is, we'll never know the resolution to this and MANY MANY other issues...because we'll only be able to throw conflicting articles back and forth.

The only way to resolve this is within yourself. I can't change your thoughts any more than you can change mine. I believe it does work. Not always...the individual being interrogated is the factor that determines that.

Frustrating isn't it?

an oped and two partisan liar sites
LOL
FAIL

Given KOS it's bullshit. Given media matters ditto.

Sure. Same as CNSNews. And thanks guys, for helping me proving my point against Burp. I couldn't have said it better. Using a bias source, or even three of them, to prove a fact is not very persuasive argument, is it?

The points you expressed are exactly why Burp citing a CNSNews article supposedly "verifying" that torture prevented an attack is a FAIL, as Divecon put it.

Given that your FBI guy speaks only to one individual and not all of them - All three of them - and given the continuing turf and funding battles between the FBI and the CIA I'm unconvinced of his verity.

Same as I'm unconvinced about how useful the torture really was in supposedly preventing another attack.

sorry, CNSnews is not a biased site like either KOS or mediamatters
yet another FAIL by you

 

[Iriemon]

Resolved? Really? How? All you did was give a conflicting view. And because it was done in writing, that is suppose to give it credence? The sad fact is, we'll never know the resolution to this and MANY MANY other issues...because we'll only be able to throw conflicting articles back and forth.

The only way to resolve this is within yourself. I can't change your thoughts any more than you can change mine. I believe it does work. Not always...the individual being interrogated is the factor that determines that.

Frustrating isn't it?

Sure. Same as CNSNews. And thanks guys, for helping me proving my point against Burp. I couldn't have said it better. Using a bias source, or even three of them, to prove a fact is not very persuasive argument, is it?

The points you expressed are exactly why Burp citing a CNSNews article supposedly "verifying" that torture prevented an attack is a FAIL, as Divecon put it.

Given that your FBI guy speaks only to one individual and not all of them - All three of them - and given the continuing turf and funding battles between the FBI and the CIA I'm unconvinced of his verity.

Same as I'm unconvinced about how useful the torture really was in supposedly preventing another attack.

sorry, CNSnews is not a biased site like either KOS or mediamatters
yet another FAIL by you

Sure. Why would anyone think something initially called "Conservative News Service" -- which according to its own website was set up to report alternatively to the "liberal media bias" -- would be anything but neutral and objective?

Study after study by the Media Research Center, the parent organization of CNSNews.com, clearly demonstrate a liberal bias in many news outlets – bias by commission and bias by omission – that results in a frequent double-standard in editorial decisions on what constitutes "news." In response to these shortcomings, MRC Chairman L. Brent Bozell III founded CNSNews.com in an effort to provide an alternative news source that would cover stories that are subject to the bias of omission and report on other news subject to bias by commission.

CNSNews.com

And why would anyone think that the formerly named "Conservative News Service" would have a bias because it is owned by the right wing Media Research Center:

The Media Research Center (MRC) is a conservative content analysis organization based in Alexandria, Virginia, founded in 1987 by L. Brent Bozell III. Its stated mission, according to its website, is "to bring balance and responsibility to the news media",[1]and the MRC catalogs and reports on what it asserts to be widespread liberal media bias in the United States press.

Media Research Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, why would anyone suppose that the ex "Conservative News Service" would have a conservative bias?

I suppose to some there would be no reason to think they might have a bias at all.

 

[Newby]

You certainly are full of yourself, aren't you? Every post you make is a book, wonder why that is?

The reason some of my posts are so long is that I have an opinion which dullards like you need spelled out and repeated in order to understand it. Not that that works anyway.

The second picture that you posted is not HOW the US tortures people, you lied. I don't need three paragraphs to explain that. It's pretty cut and dried, actually.

Is that a US soldier in the photo? Is that a terrorist suspect or insurgent in the photo? Is the US soldier torturing the man of Middle Eastern descent in the photo? Yes? So then it is how the US tortures people.


....oh, I can tell this is going to be brilliant!



Already, you're wrong, and I thought you knew me so well! I do think greed and dogma are 'evils' which cause people harm. I think religious extremism is an 'evil', so that includes Islam, Christian, etc. etc.



Yeah....



Uh huh. Take a look in the mirror if you want to see sanctimonious and judgemental. You are convinced you're beliefs are the only true ones and have judged the suspects at Gitmo as guilty. And you're passing judgement on me right now. Do you know the definition of the word: hypocrite.



I'll take that as a compliment.



No, I don't, that's why I'm an agnostic: so I can re-evaluate my opinions and perceptions upon new discoveries.

and anyone that feels or believes differently than you do are just a bunch of 'complacent and oblivious ignoramuses'.

No, just you Newby.

Yet you're too damn stupid to look in the mirror and recognize that what you described is yourself.

Yeah, good one. I just looked in the mirror this morning and all I saw was a man who, not only looks good , but who feels lost and overwhelmed by the inhumanity of his own species. And you're one of those people who weigh on my hope for humankind, who drag down my optimism, and darken even the sunniest of Spring days for me.

You're still going to insist that Abu Ghraib photos are showing U.S. government sanctioned torture? You're going to continue to completely ignore that the people who committed those crimes were prosecuted and convicted? And you think you're intelligent?

Okay.


And I've seen how you 're-evaluate' your perceptions and opinions. Who do you think you're fooling? Who knows, maybe you do actually believe your own bullshit. I'm guessing not many more are buying it tho.

 

[sealybobo]

You certainly are full of yourself, aren't you? Every post you make is a book, wonder why that is?

The reason some of my posts are so long is that I have an opinion which dullards like you need spelled out and repeated in order to understand it. Not that that works anyway.



Is that a US soldier in the photo? Is that a terrorist suspect or insurgent in the photo? Is the US soldier torturing the man of Middle Eastern descent in the photo? Yes? So then it is how the US tortures people.


....oh, I can tell this is going to be brilliant!



Already, you're wrong, and I thought you knew me so well! I do think greed and dogma are 'evils' which cause people harm. I think religious extremism is an 'evil', so that includes Islam, Christian, etc. etc.



Yeah....



Uh huh. Take a look in the mirror if you want to see sanctimonious and judgemental. You are convinced you're beliefs are the only true ones and have judged the suspects at Gitmo as guilty. And you're passing judgement on me right now. Do you know the definition of the word: hypocrite.



I'll take that as a compliment.



No, I don't, that's why I'm an agnostic: so I can re-evaluate my opinions and perceptions upon new discoveries.



No, just you Newby.

Yet you're too damn stupid to look in the mirror and recognize that what you described is yourself.

Yeah, good one. I just looked in the mirror this morning and all I saw was a man who, not only looks good , but who feels lost and overwhelmed by the inhumanity of his own species. And you're one of those people who weigh on my hope for humankind, who drag down my optimism, and darken even the sunniest of Spring days for me.

You're still going to insist that Abu Ghraib photos are showing U.S. government sanctioned torture? You're going to continue to completely ignore that the people who committed those crimes were prosecuted and convicted? And you think you're intelligent?

Okay.


And I've seen how you 're-evaluate' your perceptions and opinions. Who do you think you're fooling? Who knows, maybe you do actually believe your own bullshit. I'm guessing not many more are buying it tho.

Are you serious? Just look at Scooter Libby you stupid prick. Do you think he was the brains behind leaking Valerie Plames name? Of course he was not. Clearly it was Cheney. But Scooter was convicted. So are you suggesting that PROVES he is as high up as that story goes? Then that would make you semi retarded, imo.

And do you think that massive amount of torture/humiliation was occuring and the higer up's didn't know about it?

MAYBE just MAYBE you could have suggested such a thing last year, but now we know PROOF that the Bush white house sanctioned/approved torture.

Before we heard rumors that Rumsfeld visited Abu Grabe and walked right by as guards were torturing/humiliating suspects, but now we sort of know that that story was probably true. Because they fucking approved torturing/humiliating prisoners. They just got embarrassed because it got out. And so now its the liberals fault? You are a fucking joke. What are you, 17 years old?

Newby, Coloradoman is making you look like a fucking idiot.

 

[Gurdari]

... and the whack job, liberal, moon bats are worried about the US water boarding combatants... what a laugh compared these ANIMALS....
QUOTE]

Are you retarded? Or just racist?

Unless this shows the only Arabs on Earth, you are making a pretty big generalisation. I doubt moonbats tar all white people with the same brush... if you have truth on your side, use it instead of this.

Unless, a similar video of US soldiers would actually convince you that ALL SOLDIERS were animals... then again, maybe it would. It would not convince me anymore than this does.

 

[Gurdari]

I couldn't agree more. Lets face it American are getting soft. Just look at our jail system. Shit a lot of inmates live better than some regular Americans. Air conditioning, cable TV, and 3 meals a day, I mean come on. Make the punishment harsh. People would be less likely to commit crimes in the first place.

Yeah, seems like harsh penalties work super well... unless one does an ounce of research

 

[tigerbob]

The reason some of my posts are so long is that I have an opinion which dullards like you need spelled out and repeated in order to understand it. Not that that works anyway.



Is that a US soldier in the photo? Is that a terrorist suspect or insurgent in the photo? Is the US soldier torturing the man of Middle Eastern descent in the photo? Yes? So then it is how the US tortures people.


....oh, I can tell this is going to be brilliant!



Already, you're wrong, and I thought you knew me so well! I do think greed and dogma are 'evils' which cause people harm. I think religious extremism is an 'evil', so that includes Islam, Christian, etc. etc.



Yeah....



Uh huh. Take a look in the mirror if you want to see sanctimonious and judgemental. You are convinced you're beliefs are the only true ones and have judged the suspects at Gitmo as guilty. And you're passing judgement on me right now. Do you know the definition of the word: hypocrite.



I'll take that as a compliment.



No, I don't, that's why I'm an agnostic: so I can re-evaluate my opinions and perceptions upon new discoveries.



No, just you Newby.



Yeah, good one. I just looked in the mirror this morning and all I saw was a man who, not only looks good , but who feels lost and overwhelmed by the inhumanity of his own species. And you're one of those people who weigh on my hope for humankind, who drag down my optimism, and darken even the sunniest of Spring days for me.

You're still going to insist that Abu Ghraib photos are showing U.S. government sanctioned torture? You're going to continue to completely ignore that the people who committed those crimes were prosecuted and convicted? And you think you're intelligent?

Okay.


And I've seen how you 're-evaluate' your perceptions and opinions. Who do you think you're fooling? Who knows, maybe you do actually believe your own bullshit. I'm guessing not many more are buying it tho.

Are you serious? Just look at Scooter Libby you stupid prick. Do you think he was the brains behind leaking Valerie Plames name? Of course he was not. Clearly it was Cheney. But Scooter was convicted. So are you suggesting that PROVES he is as high up as that story goes? Then that would make you semi retarded, imo.

And do you think that massive amount of torture/humiliation was occuring and the higer up's didn't know about it?

MAYBE just MAYBE you could have suggested such a thing last year, but now we know PROOF that the Bush white house sanctioned/approved torture.

Before we heard rumors that Rumsfeld visited Abu Grabe and walked right by as guards were torturing/humiliating suspects, but now we sort of know that that story was probably true. Because they fucking approved torturing/humiliating prisoners. They just got embarrassed because it got out. And so now its the liberals fault? You are a fucking joke. What are you, 17 years old?

Newby, Coloradoman is making you look like a fucking idiot.

And you don't need anyone's help.

 

[Newby]

Newby, Coloradoman is making you look like a fucking idiot.

Coming from you, you clueless asshat, I'll take that as a compliment.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

You're still going to insist that Abu Ghraib photos are showing U.S. government sanctioned torture? You're going to continue to completely ignore that the people who committed those crimes were prosecuted and convicted? And you think you're intelligent?

I'm not ignoring that the people involved were prosecuted and convicted. It doesn't matter. The US still did it. And if you really believe that they were just a "few bad apples" at the bottom of the chain of command who acted entirely on their own, you know little about the military.

And yes, I think I'm intelligent. Not a genius by any means, but when compared with you I'm Professor Hawking.

Okay.

Yep.

And I've seen how you 're-evaluate' your perceptions and opinions.[?QUOTE] Who do you think you're fooling? Who knows, maybe you do actually believe your own bullshit. I'm guessing not many more are buying it tho.

That isn't true because if you had seen how I re-evaluate my opinion and perception then you would be lying with the above statement and I wouldn't want to assume that you're a dishonest person, unlike how you assume I am. Here let me link just a one of these incidences:

Scroll about halfway down the page:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/71977-for-those-who-do-believe-in-god-6.html

About halfway down this page is a reiteration of my changed mind:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/71977-for-those-who-do-believe-in-god-9.html

Here's another iteration from the same thread.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/71977-for-those-who-do-believe-in-god-13.html

There are others but I can't seem to find them and won't take the time. You'll just have to trust me!

Who do you think you're fooling? Who knows, maybe you do actually believe your own bullshit. I'm guessing not many more are buying it tho.

I'm not trying to fool anyone. I do actually believe my own, as you say, "bullshit" though I would call it something else like experience, perception, logic, reasoning, etc.

And as I read the other posts on this thread it seems there are at least a few who happen to also 'buy' my experience, perception, logic, reasoning, etc.

I think you just like to try to push my buttons, Newby, and you don't really mean the nasty things you say to me. Is it that it's all just a game to you, and that you play just for fun?

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Newby, Coloradoman is making you look like a fucking idiot.

Coming from you, you clueless asshat, I'll take that as a compliment.

You think Tigerbob is a clueless asshat? What exactly is an asshat? Pants?

I really think you just like to write these posts just to provoke people.

 

[Newby]

You're still going to insist that Abu Ghraib photos are showing U.S. government sanctioned torture? You're going to continue to completely ignore that the people who committed those crimes were prosecuted and convicted? And you think you're intelligent?

I'm not ignoring that the people involved were prosecuted and convicted. It doesn't matter. The US still did it. And if you really believe that they were just a "few bad apples" at the bottom of the chain of command who acted entirely on their own, you know little about the military.

And yes, I think I'm intelligent. Not a genius by any means, but when compared with you I'm Professor Hawking.

Thanks for making my point for me.

I think you just like to try to push my buttons, Newby, and you don't really mean the nasty things you say to me. Is it that it's all just a game to you, and that you play just for fun?

I have no interest in pushing anything associated with you, so don't flatter yourself. I just like to call your rhetoric and propaganda for what it is. You're the one who likes to play games.

 

[Newby]

Newby, Coloradoman is making you look like a fucking idiot.

Coming from you, you clueless asshat, I'll take that as a compliment.

You think Tigerbob is a clueless asshat? What exactly is an asshat? Pants?

I really think you just like to write these posts just to provoke people.

Where do you see Tigerbob's name anywhere here? Perhaps you need glasses or your reading skills need sharpened?

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Coming from you, you clueless asshat, I'll take that as a compliment.

You think Tigerbob is a clueless asshat? What exactly is an asshat? Pants?

I really think you just like to write these posts just to provoke people.

Where do you see Tigerbob's name anywhere here? Perhaps you need glasses or your reading skills need sharpened?

Oops. I scrolled down too fast. You think Sealybobo's an asshat. Well, he agrees with my reasoning and so, in my opinion, he isn't clueless and instead, you are!

I still don't know what an asshat actually is. Is it one of those inflatable donuts that people have to use to sit when they've broken their coccyx or have really bad hemorrhoids? What's so bad about that? I mean, I'd never want to be in a postition to use one of them, because I hear breaking your tail bone is agonizing and supposedly hemorrhoids are itchy and are associated with a burning sensation around one's anus. Kinda like when you eat spicy food and then the next day suffer from burning diarhea. Kinda like my suffering from the burning diarhea which you've spewed all over this forum. You must've eaten a lot of really spicy rightwing propaganda.

 

[Newby]

You really suck at insults.