How did the Universe get here?

[edthecynic]

No the expanding of space is just matter moving at speed. It's speed can be calculated by measuring the distance of travel against time. There was time before the big bang, but we have no way of measuring how long the universe existed in singularity form.
Nothing in the laws of physics suggests the big bang wasn't part of a cycle. Consider the big crunch theory.

You have no way of knowing there was a singularity or a big bang for that matter. These are both THEORIES.

And yes, there is something in physics which suggests the so-called "Big Crunch" theory is irrelevant. The expansion of the universe is accelerating, not slowing down. Previously, we believed the universe began with a Big Bang, and the relative velocity was slowing down... eventually, it was speculated the universe would then cease to expand and begin to contract back in on itself (the Big Crunch). Now, we no longer believe this theory is valid. In fact, some physicists like Stephen Hawking have even questioned whether there was a Big Bang. Quantum physics suggests our universe may have been the result of collision with another universe or fusion from another universe, and not a Big Bang at all.

Einstein proved that time is relative, meaning that time is simply our perception of the expansion of the universe. This means time did not exist BEFORE the universe. At least not in any concept we currently recognize as time.

In the Big Crunch, after the universe has expanded to its maximum point it then accelerates as it is pulled by gravity toward the super massive universal black hole, in the same way that a ball thrown straight up in the air slows as it rises til it reaches a point where it rises no more, then it falls back to the ground accelerating as it falls from the pull of gravity. The black energy theorized to be accelerating the movement at the extremes of the universe is more likely to be the black gravity of the also theoretical super massive universal black hole. In any case the Big Crunch Theory is still alive and well and making a come back despite your pontification of its demise.

 

[Youwerecreated]

In fairness to them, sometimes, especially here, ignorance is preferable. Like with UFOs. I'm far happier not knowing if aliens are buzzing around our atmosphere. They either are, and that'd be terrifying, or they aren't and that'd be disappointing (ironically.) But knowing with certainty isn't always preferable. If I knew for sure one way or the other God existed or didn't that'd be like knowing about UFOs. If I knew God existed I'd hate Him for being a hands-off, do-nothing deity not worth my worship. Conversely, if I knew it didn't exist nor anything anywhere akin to it, that'd kinda suck cause then we're all just microbes and nothing ultimately matters. But existing in the fog of uncertainty allows me to allow for the possibility and taking some comfort that maybe there is and all indications to the contrary are simply by design.

I take comfort in knowing what future we have is up to us.

So we are just concerned with what makes us comfortable not really looking for the truth ,got it!

 

[jesusheknowsme]

There was space outside the singularity before it exploded in the big bang.
There was time before the first hydrogen atom formed.

We cannot measure how long the universe existed as a singluar point, but science has evidence that it did exist as such and did explode.

 

[edthecynic]

There you go again, pontificating your own definition of the terms. Time is relative to the respective POSITION of the OBSERVERS, it has nothing to do with whether the universe is expanding or contracting.

Well, yes it does, ed.

"what we call time is created purely out of space."

"Time is what we measure with clocks: with clocks we measure the numerical order of material change, i.e., motion in space."

"Science says the space/time we live in had a beginning.."

"time exists only in terms of motion."

"Space/time is the movement of our universe of energy/matter. Time exists only in terms of motion. Time equals Distance divided by Rate, t=d/r."

These are all YOUR remarks in this thread, and now you are trying to contradict them.

I have contradicted nothing, and certainly not by correcting your misrepresentation of the meaning of "time is relative."

 

[edthecynic]

There was space outside the singularity before it exploded in the big bang.
There was time before the first hydrogen atom formed.

We cannot measure how long the universe existed as a singluar point, but science has evidence that it did exist as such and did explode.

True, but we know the singularity is extremely unstable and therefore it existed for only a moment, but we do not know exactly how long that moment was, only that it was a very short moment.

 

[Uncensored2008]

What is energy and matter if space and time do not exist?

Energy and matter.

Impossible. e=mc2.
If time doesn't exist, there is no energy.
If space doesn't exist, there is no matter.

Don't be ridiculous. If you don't know, just say "I don't know," don't throw out stupid statements.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Energy/mater exist independent of time.

No they don't, they can't, it's not possible.

Matter requires space to exist. It cannot have physical existence with no space to exist in. Energy is mass times speed of light squared. If there is no time, there is no "speed of light" because how do you measure speed without time? Where is the light going to exist if there is no space?

You are simply reduced to babbling incoherently here about something you obviously know little about.

Without time and space you have ZERO physical reality. No energy, no matter, no mass, no speed of light, no physics, no anything. Nothing is relevant, nothing exists to be relevant. PERIOD! END OF DEBATE!

You need a basic quantum physics course. You have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[edthecynic]

To clear up the seemingly miraculous occurence of life existing here, or any where else requires a bit of neuroscience. What some believe is incredible luck or miracles is in fact merely how your brain processes information while not possessing all the facts. We see an event we don't understand and rather than spending time to understand what occured, we chalk it up to God or luck, or some other pat answer.

Life exists on Earth because it does. If it didn't we wouldn't be musing over it. BUt that it does isn't at all remarkable. Here on Earth, life exists because it can. If it couldn't, it wouldn't. It really is as simple as that.

To pu t it another way, of the thousands of planets so far discovered, life exists on only 1 of them for sure, our's. So life on planets may only occur 1 in a few thousand times, small odds to some until you learn there's more planets in the universe than stars so something which occurs just 1 in 2000 times will have occured literally billions of times throughout the universe. Suddenly it's not so remarkable any more.

Intellectually lazy people are not looking to "clear things up".

How has the science community ever cleared up any origins question

It hasn't, but scientists are honest enough to admit they don't know YET, but are working to find out which of their theories might hold the answers or a new theory that might develop from the search.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Intellectually lazy people are not looking to "clear things up".

How has the science community ever cleared up any origins question

It hasn't, but scientists are honest enough to admit they don't know YET, but are working to find out which of their theories might hold the answers or a new theory that might develop from the search.

As long as they deny precision and design in nature they rule out a possibility.

 

[Boss]

Astrophysicists have charted the path of the universe there is evidence to support the big bang theory.
Energy cannot be created or destroyed so must always have existed.
Time is a measure and movement is used to work out that measure. How do you measure time before the big bang, the universe could have been in singular form for a split second or for billions of years. Science does not claim to have all the answers. But it looks for evidence, both in mathematics and in the way the universe is moving.

To date science has found no evidence at all exists to say there is a God.
There could be, but there isn't any evidence at all.

As I said... Stephen Hawking.... maybe you're familiar, weird looking guy in a wheelchair, can't talk except through his computer? Lots of people seem to think he is a pretty smart nut when it comes to this science stuff... He says that it's not certain there was ever a Big Bang.

Energy cannot be created or destroyed so must always have existed.

And I totally agree... as long as a physical universe with physical reality exists, this seems to be a pretty reliable conclusion. But gosh, something that has always existed sounds like immortality to me, and I thought that was some silly 'spaghetti monster' notion the religious kooks believed in? How can physical energy exist without a physical universe or reality to exist in? Energy does equal mass times speed of light squared, correct? (e=mc2)... So how does energy exist if mass and light have no space and time? Omnipotence???

How do you measure time before the big bang?

Exactly my point. You can't. Time does not yet exist.

the universe could have been in singular form for a split second or for billions of years

Well "years" are how long it takes earth to travel around the sun. Since there was no earth or sun, how can you measure years? And time is created by motion of the universe itself, the spacetime continuum. Time began the instant of the supposed Big Bang. Before that, there was no time. And a clarification is in order here, the theorized "singularity" is the BEGINNING of the Big Bang, not what precedes it. We don't know what preceded it. Physical reality and time did not exist yet.

Science does not claim to have all the answers. But it looks for evidence, both in mathematics and in the way the universe is moving.

But the universe is moving. So it came to be moving by some force, at least, according to Newton's Laws of Motion. If the physical universe and reality didn't yet exist, what could have set the universe in motion? Flying spaghetti monsters? Nahh.. that sounds too "physical" to be true. It seems like it would logically be something metaphysical.

To date science has found no evidence at all exists to say there is a God.

No shit, really? I thought that physical science had surely proven a spiritual entity by now! I mean, we never hardly ever see anyone debating this topic anymore, right? Hasn't it been proven conclusively beyond any shadow of a doubt? I am truly shocked by this information!

 

[BobPlumb]

Let's be real. From what little we can perceive from our little point in the universe and from what our tiny minds can comprehend, we don't have a clue how the universe got here. However, the various theories can be very entertaining.

 

[edthecynic]

How has the science community ever cleared up any origins question

It hasn't, but scientists are honest enough to admit they don't know YET, but are working to find out which of their theories might hold the answers or a new theory that might develop from the search.

As long as they deny precision and design in nature they rule out a possibility.

But it is hard to see "precision" in a universe that has so much evidence of things smashing into other things everywhere you look in the universe!

 

[Uncensored2008]

No too sure. What I can tell you is that some flyingspaghettimonster omnipresent being didn't go abracadabra and suddenly everything appeared.

If you can tell me that, you do so based purely on faith - there is zero objective evidence to support your claim.

I mean, if you believe that, then I say "And where did this omnipresent God come from?"...to which most religious folk say "He/she/it was always there". Which in turn, I find kinda funny because they are asking non believers - who at least have some pretty solid theories behind their beliefs about how the universe appeared - to believe that a God created the universe out of thin air without any apparent evidence, to prove their theory is valid (the Big Bang or variations thereof). Preposterous to say the least...

Your faith is just as preposterous.

Our universe may be a brane in a larger metaverse. Our universe may be a quark in the atom of a greater reality. Maybe the cosmic egg of the Hindus describes the big bang and contraction cycle.

We have no idea, we can only study the mechanics of our reality and postulate as to what it all means.

 

[Boss]

Energy/mater exist independent of time.

No they don't, they can't, it's not possible.

Matter requires space to exist. It cannot have physical existence with no space to exist in. Energy is mass times speed of light squared. If there is no time, there is no "speed of light" because how do you measure speed without time? Where is the light going to exist if there is no space?

You are simply reduced to babbling incoherently here about something you obviously know little about.

Without time and space you have ZERO physical reality. No energy, no matter, no mass, no speed of light, no physics, no anything. Nothing is relevant, nothing exists to be relevant. PERIOD! END OF DEBATE!

You need a basic quantum physics course. You have no clue what you are talking about.

LMAO... Basically ALL I do on the internet these days is argue with idiots here and watch videos on quantum physics. Most of what I am arguing here comes from teachings of quantum physics. I am arguing with old-school Newtonian believers who can't think outside their little "flat earth" boxes.

 

[edthecynic]

No they don't, they can't, it's not possible.

Matter requires space to exist. It cannot have physical existence with no space to exist in. Energy is mass times speed of light squared. If there is no time, there is no "speed of light" because how do you measure speed without time? Where is the light going to exist if there is no space?

You are simply reduced to babbling incoherently here about something you obviously know little about.

Without time and space you have ZERO physical reality. No energy, no matter, no mass, no speed of light, no physics, no anything. Nothing is relevant, nothing exists to be relevant. PERIOD! END OF DEBATE!

You need a basic quantum physics course. You have no clue what you are talking about.

LMAO... Basically ALL I do on the internet these days is argue with idiots here and watch videos on quantum physics. Most of what I am arguing here comes from teachings of quantum physics. I am arguing with old-school Newtonian believers who can't think outside their little "flat earth" boxes.

Well, at least we "idiots" know the difference between a simulation and an "actual proton."

 

[Boss]

Energy and matter.

Impossible. e=mc2.
If time doesn't exist, there is no energy.
If space doesn't exist, there is no matter.

Don't be ridiculous. If you don't know, just say "I don't know," don't throw out stupid statements.

How about you stop being a dick heel and state why you think my comments were stupid?

Energy and matter cannot exist without time and space. Prove my statement wrong or shut the fuck up.

 

[Uncensored2008]

You KNOW you are a nerd when you utter the following phrase....

My favorite theoretical physicist is Dr. Lisa Randall. For an exploratory lecture on the nature and meaning of time. I find the following useful.

Warped Extra-Dimensional Opportunities and Signatures (2/3) (11 March 2008)

If you follow the link, you must download both the PowerPoint and the video. She approaches it from the perspective of brane worlds.

 

[edthecynic]

Impossible. e=mc2.
If time doesn't exist, there is no energy.
If space doesn't exist, there is no matter.

Don't be ridiculous. If you don't know, just say "I don't know," don't throw out stupid statements.

How about you stop being a dick heel and state why you think my comments were stupid?

Energy and matter cannot exist without time and space. Prove my statement wrong or shut the fuck up.

Already been done multiple times, please reread this thread rather than make us repeat ourselves.
Thank you in advance.

 

[Boss]

You need a basic quantum physics course. You have no clue what you are talking about.

LMAO... Basically ALL I do on the internet these days is argue with idiots here and watch videos on quantum physics. Most of what I am arguing here comes from teachings of quantum physics. I am arguing with old-school Newtonian believers who can't think outside their little "flat earth" boxes.

Well, at least we "idiots" know the difference between a simulation and an "actual proton."

Have no idea what you are talking about. You seem to just have a hard on for criticizing me. I really don't get it because often times, I think you make valid and smart points and I agree with you on many things. I guess you just like being a jerk to me?

 

[PostmodernProph]

Intellectually lazy people are not looking to "clear things up".

How has the science community ever cleared up any origins question

It hasn't, but scientists are honest enough to admit they don't know YET, but are working to find out which of their theories might hold the answers or a new theory that might develop from the search.

are they to be contrasted with scientists who think they know what they're talking about?.....