How did the Universe get here?

That's not what you said earlier!

But I'm glad you finally came around to my side on that.
Thank You!

Why didn't you quote what I said earlier?

I didn't "finally come around" to your side. I stated correctly, if you could travel the speed of light, you could stop time. I gave a hypothetical about twins, one on earth and one traveling near the speed of light. This is a popular hypothetical taught in most quantum physics classes. It demonstrates how we DO "travel in time" because time is relative. I never said a damn thing about traveling BACK in time. In my hypothetical, the twin travels into the future, not the past.

What you are doing is what most of the morons at this site do, you are morphing things I say into some absurd and ridiculous thing that I never said, then trying to strong arm your fucking way to an argumentative win. It's sad and pathetic. Go fuck yourself!

Because I knew you would deny saying it if I didn't quote you, I know pompous know-it-alls like you like the back of my hand. That's why I'm glad we are on a messageboard rather than arguing in person where you can simply deny what you said and get away with it. Of course you will deny what you said even after I post it and play word games that you didn't mean what you said, but at least it will be there for everyone to see.

Now we can't presently time travel because we can't go faster than the speed of light. In fact, up until recently, it was thought that nothing could go faster than the speed of light. It contradicts classical physics or Newtonian physics. It even challenges Einsteinian physics. But theoretical physicists who are pioneering quantum physics say that it IS a possibility.

Now we can't presently time travel because we can't go faster than the speed of light.

As anyone with a fucking brain in their head can see... NOT A DAMN WORD ABOUT GOING BACK IN TIME!

As I said, you seek to morph my words into absurdities you can then attack and puff your chest out, as IF you have won an argument. It's sad and pathetic.
 
For those readers who are more interested in the subject of time and time travel, as opposed to following eddy's pathetic and sad attempts to "win" an argument with me, here are a couple of short video clips:



 
Last edited by a moderator:
How did the Universe (i.e. everything that exists) get here?

And if you believe there are multiple universes, then how did the Multiverse get here?

We know the Universe wasn't always here, and will end sometime in the future.

How did everything begin, and what happens after the end?

I'm looking for an answer from those of you who say God definitely does not exist.

We don't know. Time, for instance, appears to have begun with the Big Bang, so there might not have been any ’cause’ for the Universe to be an ‘effect’ of since there was probably no time for a ’cause’ to exist in. Applying concepts like time and causality to the Big Bang might be comparable to asking “What is north of the North Pole?” – ultimately nonsensical and incoherent.

In fact, something can come from nothing and we are able to observe it in the form of virtual particles and quantum vacuum fluctuations. They explain why the early universe lacked uniformity and provided the seeds for the emergence of structure. These quantum phenomena are also causeless in the sense that they are objectively and irreducibly random, a fact confirmed by tests of non-local realism and Bell’s Theorem.

Can I ask you something? The hack pseudo-science website you are copying and pasting this incoherent babble from... are they paying you? Because all you seem to be doing is free advertising for them. I seriously doubt you have the intellectual competence to even understand half the shit you post about. I've seen these same paragraphs posted by you numerous times in numerous threads. You're simply flooding the board with this stuff like some kind of fucking autobot. I really do hope you are smart enough to have worked out a payment arrangement for your work. I would hate to think you're doing this for free.

And you keep saying the same stupid bullshit over and over again too.

Yes, something can come from nothing. Everything and Nothing - Nothing
 
since there was probably no time for a ’cause’ to exist in.

Where is the evidence that "cause" requires time to exist in?

In fact, something can come from nothing and we are able to observe it in the form of virtual particles and quantum vacuum fluctuations.

Not true. We've NEVER observed something coming from nothing.

Applying concepts like time and causality to the Big Bang might be comparable to asking “What is north of the North Pole?”

Nonsense. The North Pole is a geographic location, there is nothing north of it. Time is not a concept. It is a dimension in space-time continuum, one of four dimensions that comprise reality. In theory, time and space does not exist until the Singularity which is the beginning of the Big Bang... but this is a THEORY!

Causation is logic, and while there is no requirement for logic to apply when dealing with origin of the universe, it certainly applies to Newton's Laws of Motion. If the universe is in motion, something set it into motion. Now you are saying we don't need to explain this, but in order to explain it, we logically DO need to explain it. We can't claim it is unexplained yet explained... that defies logic.

Nothing explores science at the very limits of human perception, where we now understand the deepest mysteries of the universe lie. Jim sets out to answer one very simple question - what is nothing? His journey ends with perhaps the most profound insight about reality that humanity has ever made. Everything came from nothing. The quantum world of the super-small shaped the vast universe we inhabit today, and Jim can prove it.

Everything and Nothing - Nothing
 
since there was probably no time for a ’cause’ to exist in.

Where is the evidence that "cause" requires time to exist in?

In fact, something can come from nothing and we are able to observe it in the form of virtual particles and quantum vacuum fluctuations.

Not true. We've NEVER observed something coming from nothing.

Applying concepts like time and causality to the Big Bang might be comparable to asking “What is north of the North Pole?”

Nonsense. The North Pole is a geographic location, there is nothing north of it. Time is not a concept. It is a dimension in space-time continuum, one of four dimensions that comprise reality. In theory, time and space does not exist until the Singularity which is the beginning of the Big Bang... but this is a THEORY!

Causation is logic, and while there is no requirement for logic to apply when dealing with origin of the universe, it certainly applies to Newton's Laws of Motion. If the universe is in motion, something set it into motion. Now you are saying we don't need to explain this, but in order to explain it, we logically DO need to explain it. We can't claim it is unexplained yet explained... that defies logic.

In fact, something can come from nothing and we are able to observe it in the form of virtual particles and quantum vacuum fluctuations. They explain why the early universe lacked uniformity and provided the seeds for the emergence of structure [2][3]. These quantum phenomena are also causeless in the sense that they are objectively and irreducibly random, a fact confirmed by tests of non-local realism and Bell’s Theorem.

Virtual particle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quantum fluctuation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Galaxy formation and evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Randomness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An experimental test of non-local realism : Abstract : Nature

Bell's theorem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Tell Einstein, Hawking and Kaku... I'm just the messenger! :dunno:

Einstein just turned over in his grave!!!

Uhm.. Einstein is who discovered time is relative. If he turned over it's because some idiot called 'bullshit' on that 109 years later. :lol:

Simply because you or the scientific community lack a complete understanding of something does not imply a theistic explanation carries any value. Even if there exists some topic on which science can never speak, any understanding could potentially evade us forever – supernatural or metaphysical speculation would not automatically be correct. Uncertainty is the most legitimate position.

Lightning, earthquakes, volcanos, disease, mental illness, speciation, planetary orbits and numerous other phenomena have been historically labelled ‘supernatural’ only to later be more thoroughly and elegantly explained by science. In fact, every mystery ever demonstrably solved has had a non-supernatural explanation. To suggest that science cannot or will not explain a phenomena, and that only theism can, is hubris of the highest order.

Using ‘god’ to explain something explains nothing. An explanation is intended to clarify and extend knowledge. Attributing a phenomenon to the magical powers of a supernatural being does neither. Worse still, this presumption acts to prevent any deeper investigation, being little more than a form of blissful ignorance.
 
Why didn't you quote what I said earlier?

I didn't "finally come around" to your side. I stated correctly, if you could travel the speed of light, you could stop time. I gave a hypothetical about twins, one on earth and one traveling near the speed of light. This is a popular hypothetical taught in most quantum physics classes. It demonstrates how we DO "travel in time" because time is relative. I never said a damn thing about traveling BACK in time. In my hypothetical, the twin travels into the future, not the past.

What you are doing is what most of the morons at this site do, you are morphing things I say into some absurd and ridiculous thing that I never said, then trying to strong arm your fucking way to an argumentative win. It's sad and pathetic. Go fuck yourself!

Because I knew you would deny saying it if I didn't quote you, I know pompous know-it-alls like you like the back of my hand. That's why I'm glad we are on a messageboard rather than arguing in person where you can simply deny what you said and get away with it. Of course you will deny what you said even after I post it and play word games that you didn't mean what you said, but at least it will be there for everyone to see.

Now we can't presently time travel because we can't go faster than the speed of light. In fact, up until recently, it was thought that nothing could go faster than the speed of light. It contradicts classical physics or Newtonian physics. It even challenges Einsteinian physics. But theoretical physicists who are pioneering quantum physics say that it IS a possibility.

Now we can't presently time travel because we can't go faster than the speed of light.

As anyone with a fucking brain in their head can see... NOT A DAMN WORD ABOUT GOING BACK IN TIME!

As I said, you seek to morph my words into absurdities you can then attack and puff your chest out, as IF you have won an argument. It's sad and pathetic.

Do I know this :asshole: or what!

Like theoretical "time travel" does not involve going back in time as well as forward!
 
For those readers who are more interested in the subject of time and time travel, as opposed to following eddy's pathetic and sad attempts to "win" an argument with me, here are a couple of short video clips:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf2B7DN3tqc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO_Q_f1WgQI

OK, the top video is time DILATION, not really time travel, though you will never admit it.
And the bottom is an illustration of the "Einstein and the fabric of time" link I posted earlier in this thread and which you poo pooed at the TIME.

Thank you for coming around to my side on that one also.

Time has no independent existence apart from the order of events by which we measure it
- Albert Einstein

Albert Einstein and the Fabric of Time
 
Eddy, what you are doing is total intellectual dishonesty here. You are morphing my arguments into some bizarre perversion of what I have said, then running to Einstein in order to refute my argument which is based on Einstein! Maybe you are just too fucking retarded to understand what you are reading... you see my name at the top and immediately decide that I am spewing nonsense, and for whatever reason, the words translate into your brain as the total opposite of what they appear.... Fuck if I can figure out what your problem is!

Einstein's fabric of time is at the foundation of virtually EVERYTHING that I have posted in this thread! Our little "debate" began when you tried to claim energy can exist without space or time. I said it was impossible because e=mc2. That's energy, that's the formula for energy. Then you started yammering about the 1st Law of Thermodynamics.... not Einstein's fabric of time. I responded by saying, if time and space do not exist, neither does the 1st Law of Thermodynamics. For there to be any kind of physical law or physical energy, there has to be space and time in a physical universe for it to exist. Then we get into the debate about time travel, and the fact of the matter is, Einstein proves time travel is possible with the Theory of Relativity... Time is Relative.... means it is relative to the observer. The second video, which you claim you posted first, clearly demonstrates this principle... but you tried to claim this is bullshit when I said it.

All I can figure is, you either don't understand Einstein's physics at all, or you aren't comprehending what I am posting. I've not refuted Einstein, my argument began with me stating e=mc2! Energy is mass times speed of light squared... that is what energy IS. If there is no time, you can't measure speed of light, and if you have no space, light or mass has no place to exist. What is so fucking complicated about that for you? If there is no time or space (space-time) then there is no energy, there can't be, it's not possible. Energy requires a physical universe to exist in, unless you are talking about spiritual energy. Are you making an argument for God? :dunno:
 
How did the Universe (i.e. everything that exists) get here?

And if you believe there are multiple universes, then how did the Multiverse get here?

We know the Universe wasn't always here, and will end sometime in the future.

How did everything begin, and what happens after the end?

I'm looking for an answer from those of you who say God definitely does not exist.

God is a concept and in that it exists.

snippets from others: We observe that particles, namely protons and electrons, appear out of nothing, they stick around for a very short period of time and disappear to reappear somewhere else in space.

So something can come out of nothing.

Before the Universe came into existence there was no time because of what time actually is. Without time there is no "before" for a creator to have created the universe. scary, yet scientifically sound
 
OK, the top video is time DILATION, not really time travel, though you will never admit it.
You can call it whatever you like, if you dilate something, you've gone from point A to point B...or
"traveled" a distance. I never said you could go back in time, you conjured that up in translation somehow.

We've proven with atomic clocks that we can "travel in time" to the future, right here on earth. You need a really fast jet and a couple of atomic clocks. Put one on the jet and one on the ground and fly around the earth one time. If you don't have a jet, you can use the space shuttle, it works just as well. The experiment will show the atomic clocks (most precise time measurement we know of) have a slight differentiation at the conclusion. PROOF that you went forward in time. Apparently, you think going forward in time renders you invisible in the present or something. It doesn't, you still experience the future as if it is present time, nothing will ever change that perception. But the time on the jet slowed down, and when it returns to earth where everyone's time remained constant, it arrives in the future. It's a very small amount, a fraction of a second... but it IS in the future. To the observer on earth it's not in the future, because remember... time is RELATIVE.

Of course, if you want to go YEARS into the future, this is more problematic. You need to go near the speed of light, and the problem with that is the dynamic principles of matter traveling at near the speed of light. The faster you go, the more you weigh. Physics will not allow us to travel at or near the speed of light at this time, we don't know how to overcome the dynamics. Still, it IS a theoretic possibility. We can't do it yet, we may never know how to do it, but that doesn't mean it's impossible.

In order to go BACK in time, you need to find a wormhole... at least, according to Hawking. But the point still remains, theoretical quantum physics certainly says it is POSSIBLE to travel back in time.
 
Without time there is no "before" for a creator to have created the universe.

It is correct there is no "before" in a physical sense.

In a spiritual sense, there is no such thing as time.
 
The universe was created when an old bearded guy, who looks a lot like Charlton Heston, waved his hand and said, "Let there be light!". After that, he created people, and then killed them all in a big flood, and then promised not to do it again, and then sent his son to be nailed to a cross, and then promised to send everyone to eternal hell who was not on board with his messages.
 
Without time there is no "before" for a creator to have created the universe.

It is correct there is no "before" in a physical sense.

In a spiritual sense, there is no such thing as time.

Spirituality like religion and god is a human construct. It exists -- in the mind

The problem you are having is the same problem all Atheists have with God. You cannot conceive of any "existence" other than physical. You can't imagine a physical man sitting on a cloud, ruling over us with the Charlton Heston voice, so you believe this silly notion must not be "real" and in a physical sense, you are correct. All of your refutations of God are based on your limited understanding of physical nature and physical reality, which is all your mind can imagine there is.

You cannot prove that humans constructed spirituality. There is just not any evidence to make that conclusion, but since your mind is unable to imagine anything other than physical nature, you assume that must be the case. It's not the case. Humans are intrinsically connected to something greater than self... always have been, always will be. From the oldest human civilizations ever unearthed to the here and now, humans are overwhelmingly spiritual. Religions are man-made constructs, and they are prime evidence that humans make some kind of real spiritual connection to something greater than self.

There can be debate over what exactly that thing is, but one thing it's not is physical.
 
The fact that perceived time was different for each individual doesn't change the amount of actual time that has passed.

Time IS perception. There is no such thing as "actual" time, this is what Einstein proved with Theory of Relativity. Time is relative to the observer of it. We can only experience time as "present" or "now" ...there is no way for anyone to experience "past" or "future" time. If you time-traveled to the past or future, you would experience it as "present" and the people around you would also be experiencing it as "present" ...there would be no way to tell that you were experiencing "past" or "future" other than the circumstantial conditions around you. Your perception would still be "present" and their perception would still be "present" ...they would not know they were in your past or future.

In my example, the returning twin is experiencing the same "present" time, but he is in the future by a couple of years, proven by the fact his twin is two years older than he. If the time-traveling twin has kept track of time and his calendar, he will know that he is two years into the future from the date/time on his calendar. His time slowed down, the twin on earth's time stayed the same. They will both have equal perception of "present" time, but one is two years into the future.
One took damage equivalent to 2 years worth of age and perhaps even experienced time at a different rate, but only perceived time is factored in. The actual time that passed is the same.

No, one did not "take damage equivalent to" anything. They both experienced time passing at the same rate as always. The traveling twin's time was just passing more slowly in relation to the stationary twin, but they both experienced the same relative passage of time. In other words, the traveling twin isn't looking at his clock thinking 'jeesh, this minute is taking forever to pass!' To him, the minute is passing just as it normally does if he were on earth. If the stationary twin could peek into the cabin of the traveling twin's ship and look at his clock as he traveled through space, it would appear the clock is moving slower.

There is no such thing as "actual" time. Einstein discovered that time is relative to the observer. This means that time can pass at different rates in the same universe for two different bodies in motion. Also, it depends on where you are at in the universe. In some places where there is a relatively lower or higher amount of gravitational force, time passes at a different rate. Gravity effects time as well as space.

When you say "actual time" it is the concept of Isaac Newton who believed time was a constant. Meaning, it did not change relative to the observer or motion. Up until 1905, when Einstein developed the theory of special relativity, this was the way physics thought about time.
 
In fact, something can come from nothing and we are able to observe it in the form of virtual particles and quantum vacuum fluctuations.

If you Google "can something come from nothing" you get around 230,000,000 hits. That's nearly a quarter of a billion links to this query in some variation. This tells me it's not a concluded fact of life that something comes from nothing. It's very much a debatable topic.... not a fact.

Now... I am going to shock you here, because I do believe that something can come from nothing! After all, we ARE here, we DO exist. The entire universe is in motion and did come to exist some way. But unless you are willing to dismiss the principle that energy cannot be created or destroyed, the observations of virtual particles or quantum vacuum fluctuations have to be explainable. Sure, it does appear that some subatomic particles and electrons seem to 'pop' into existence and out of existence throughout our universe... gee whiz, that almost sound like "magic sky fairy" poofing things into and out of existence, doesn't it? But I digress. Still, if a virtual particle appears, it probably came from something somewhere, unless the principle of energy not being creatable is wrong. I don't believe that is the case because the laws of physics seem to be reliable in a physical universe. But some people do believe in magical appearing particles out of nowhere, poofing into and out of existence.

So how can something come from nothing? Well, it depends on how you define those two terms. If we can agree that the "something" we are referring to is something physical in physical nature, we are half way to solving the dilemma. If we can also agree that "nothing" simply means nothing physical that we are aware of in physical nature, this gives us the simple answer to the question. The "nothing" is nothing physical, it is however, metaphysical. This is something beyond physical nature which "created" physical nature, along with all the various physical laws and universal constants.

Oh nooo.... we can't have that! It sounds too much like GOD! So what we have to do is adopt faith in a belief that magic happened. There was no physical nature, no time, no space, no universe, no reality... and miraculously out of nowhere, something just poofed into existence all by itself. No explanation or cause, it just randomly happened... and not only did this happen, but it just so happens that all of these precise functions of physics and math, chemistry and biology, all operate to perfection in a predictable way... and not only that, but all of the various elements, energies, compounds, forces of nature, atoms and subatomic particles, all provide the essentials for life and intelligence as we know it. And if all of that isn't enough to blow your mind, some people actually claim that this whole entire thing is a CYCLE! Yes... the magic just continues to happen over and over with no end... Kind of like... Immortality...except, shhh... let's not use THAT word here!
 

Forum List

Back
Top