How did the Universe get here?

[Boss]

No you don't, you have a undergraduate Psych degree.

No, I have a Bachelor of Science degree in Psychology. I understand you physics people like to dis on psych grads, but Psychology is a Science whether you like it or not.

As sure as the speed of light can equal 0.

Yes, Mr. Wizard... in a non-existing physical universe with no space or time, there is no physical property of speed of anything called light. Get a refund on your physics degree!

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Thinking a conscious discrete being we call God created the universe requires a complete ignorance of science. We know a lot about the universe like how stars and planets form, how atoms make up molecules and subatomic particles make up atoms, how living things are made up of cells, etc. And in all of that no whewre is there any mechanism which allows creation "just because I felt like it."

If a being calld God did create he woulda needed technology and so not have been the ghostly version most religions describe. And thus, not the all-powerful being usually thought of.

 

[BreezeWood]

the "Creator" is not responsible for the Everlasting, only the moral code of Ethics for Life, made necessary for its sustenance.

.

 

[Boss]

Thinking a conscious discrete being we call God created the universe requires a complete ignorance of science. We know a lot about the universe like how stars and planets form, how atoms make up molecules and subatomic particles make up atoms, how living things are made up of cells, etc. And in all of that no whewre is there any mechanism which allows creation "just because I felt like it."

If a being calld God did create he woulda needed technology and so not have been the ghostly version most religions describe. And thus, not the all-powerful being usually thought of.

*sigh* Delta, what you are doing is imagining "God" as some kind of physical being with some sort of "magic" capabilities, including invisibility. Maybe there is no way to get this through to you... perhaps your mind is incapable of comprehending it? God is not a physical "being" of any kind.

What we know about is the physical universe. We do know a lot about it, but there is much we don't know or understand. For some reason, every era of humans that come along, think they have figured everything out and know all there is to know. Yet we keep discovering new things, we keep finding that we were totally wrong about what we thought we knew. Then, we go along a way thinking... NOW we've finally got it! NOW we really DO know everything... WRONG! We still don't know everything and we probably never will.

Regardless of whether you "believe in God" or not, regardless of what your mind concocts as "God" in your fertile little imagination... the physical universe is here and it is moving. The parameters of what it is and what it's doing cannot be explained simply with physics. How it began or what set it into motion, are equally unexplainable. It gets old reading the same old tired Atheist rants explaining this stuff away with physical nature. Nothing we know of in physical nature has ever created itself. You are a human being... you began as a fused sperm and egg cell inside another person. Now, you can look at your body and foolishly argue that this is impossible because you simply can't imagine such a ridiculous thing, but that's how you began... it's how you were created. Pointing to your size, your ability to walk and talk, and have intelligent thought... doesn't disprove how you originated. Just as it doesn't explain away how the universe originated to point to physical properties of the universe.

 

[sealybobo]

No you don't, you have a undergraduate Psych degree.

No, I have a Bachelor of Science degree in Psychology. I understand you physics people like to dis on psych grads, but Psychology is a Science whether you like it or not.

Psychology majors earned a median starting salary of $33,500 in February 2012.

 

[Boss]

No you don't, you have a undergraduate Psych degree.

No, I have a Bachelor of Science degree in Psychology. I understand you physics people like to dis on psych grads, but Psychology is a Science whether you like it or not.

Psychology majors earned a median starting salary of $33,500 in February 2012.

And this has relevance to the topic how?

 

[sealybobo]

No, I have a Bachelor of Science degree in Psychology. I understand you physics people like to dis on psych grads, but Psychology is a Science whether you like it or not.

Psychology majors earned a median starting salary of $33,500 in February 2012.

And this has relevance to the topic how?

Well it isn't rocket science.

 

[sealybobo]

Psychology is a Science whether you like it or not.

So is Poly Sci. If you don't have a degree in this you are just like the rest of us

Cosmology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[sealybobo]

How did the Universe (i.e. everything that exists) get here?

And if you believe there are multiple universes, then how did the Multiverse get here?

We know the Universe wasn't always here, and will end sometime in the future.

How did everything begin, and what happens after the end?

I'm looking for an answer from those of you who say God definitely does not exist.

We were probably spat out a new black hole. They pop up all over our universe and on the other side are other universes.

Every Black Hole Contains a New Universe | Inside Science

 

[itfitzme]

Thinking a conscious discrete being we call God created the universe requires a complete ignorance of science. We know a lot about the universe like how stars and planets form, how atoms make up molecules and subatomic particles make up atoms, how living things are made up of cells, etc. And in all of that no whewre is there any mechanism which allows creation "just because I felt like it."

If a being calld God did create he woulda needed technology and so not have been the ghostly version most religions describe. And thus, not the all-powerful being usually thought of.

*sigh* Delta, what you are doing is imagining "God" as some kind of physical being with some sort of "magic" capabilities, including invisibility. Maybe there is no way to get this through to you... perhaps your mind is incapable of comprehending it? God is not a physical "being" of any kind.

What we know about is the physical universe. We do know a lot about it, but there is much we don't know or understand. For some reason, every era of humans that come along, think they have figured everything out and know all there is to know. Yet we keep discovering new things, we keep finding that we were totally wrong about what we thought we knew. Then, we go along a way thinking... NOW we've finally got it! NOW we really DO know everything... WRONG! We still don't know everything and we probably never will.

Regardless of whether you "believe in God" or not, regardless of what your mind concocts as "God" in your fertile little imagination... the physical universe is here and it is moving. The parameters of what it is and what it's doing cannot be explained simply with physics. How it began or what set it into motion, are equally unexplainable. It gets old reading the same old tired Atheist rants explaining this stuff away with physical nature. Nothing we know of in physical nature has ever created itself. You are a human being... you began as a fused sperm and egg cell inside another person. Now, you can look at your body and foolishly argue that this is impossible because you simply can't imagine such a ridiculous thing, but that's how you began... it's how you were created. Pointing to your size, your ability to walk and talk, and have intelligent thought... doesn't disprove how you originated. Just as it doesn't explain away how the universe originated to point to physical properties of the universe.

"Science doesn' know everything" isn't proof of "god". It is, though, the single most conisistent moronic lack of reasoning displayed by people that argue the existance of god.

 

[itfitzme]

How did the Universe (i.e. everything that exists) get here?

And if you believe there are multiple universes, then how did the Multiverse get here?

We know the Universe wasn't always here, and will end sometime in the future.

How did everything begin, and what happens after the end?

I'm looking for an answer from those of you who say God definitely does not exist.

We were probably spat out a new black hole. They pop up all over our universe and on the other side are other universes.

Every Black Hole Contains a New Universe | Inside Science

Yeah there is alot of published science fiction. My favorite has always been Scientific American. Science fiction is very important in giving "reason" to justify grant money. The best science fiction writers have been highly scientifically literate.

 

[sealybobo]

How did the Universe (i.e. everything that exists) get here?

And if you believe there are multiple universes, then how did the Multiverse get here?

We know the Universe wasn't always here, and will end sometime in the future.

How did everything begin, and what happens after the end?

I'm looking for an answer from those of you who say God definitely does not exist.

We were probably spat out a new black hole. They pop up all over our universe and on the other side are other universes.

Every Black Hole Contains a New Universe | Inside Science

Yeah there is alot of published science fiction. My favorite has always been Scientific American. Science fiction is very important in giving "reason" to justify grant money. The best science fiction writers have been highly scientifically literate.

The best science fiction book ever written is the bible.

 

[edthecynic]

No, I have a Bachelor of Science degree in Psychology. I understand you physics people like to dis on psych grads, but Psychology is a Science whether you like it or not.

As sure as the speed of light can equal 0.

Yes, Mr. Wizard... in a non-existing physical universe with no space or time, there is no physical property of speed of anything called light. Get a refund on your physics degree!

Prove the existence of such a universe without simply pontificating its existence, Mr BS degree.

It should be interesting to see how Mr BS proves the existence of what he says is non-existing.

 

[Boss]

Thinking a conscious discrete being we call God created the universe requires a complete ignorance of science. We know a lot about the universe like how stars and planets form, how atoms make up molecules and subatomic particles make up atoms, how living things are made up of cells, etc. And in all of that no whewre is there any mechanism which allows creation "just because I felt like it."

If a being calld God did create he woulda needed technology and so not have been the ghostly version most religions describe. And thus, not the all-powerful being usually thought of.

*sigh* Delta, what you are doing is imagining "God" as some kind of physical being with some sort of "magic" capabilities, including invisibility. Maybe there is no way to get this through to you... perhaps your mind is incapable of comprehending it? God is not a physical "being" of any kind.

What we know about is the physical universe. We do know a lot about it, but there is much we don't know or understand. For some reason, every era of humans that come along, think they have figured everything out and know all there is to know. Yet we keep discovering new things, we keep finding that we were totally wrong about what we thought we knew. Then, we go along a way thinking... NOW we've finally got it! NOW we really DO know everything... WRONG! We still don't know everything and we probably never will.

Regardless of whether you "believe in God" or not, regardless of what your mind concocts as "God" in your fertile little imagination... the physical universe is here and it is moving. The parameters of what it is and what it's doing cannot be explained simply with physics. How it began or what set it into motion, are equally unexplainable. It gets old reading the same old tired Atheist rants explaining this stuff away with physical nature. Nothing we know of in physical nature has ever created itself. You are a human being... you began as a fused sperm and egg cell inside another person. Now, you can look at your body and foolishly argue that this is impossible because you simply can't imagine such a ridiculous thing, but that's how you began... it's how you were created. Pointing to your size, your ability to walk and talk, and have intelligent thought... doesn't disprove how you originated. Just as it doesn't explain away how the universe originated to point to physical properties of the universe.

"Science doesn' know everything" isn't proof of "god". It is, though, the single most conisistent moronic lack of reasoning displayed by people that argue the existance of god.

I never said that science not knowing everything is proof of God. However... I am getting really quite tired of this fucking double standard and one-way street, where science can be paraded around as "evidence" there is no God, but be excused and dismissed when it doesn't adequately answer the tough questions. Science neither proves or disproves God, it can't... it's PHYSICAL science. If it was designed and intended to study SPIRITUAL things, perhaps it COULD prove or disprove God!

Physical reality began with time. Whenever time and space began, that is when our physical reality and laws of the physical universe began. We simply have no idea of what happened BEFORE that. I continue to read the ramblings of people who "supposedly" have educational backgrounds in science, telling us as matter of fact, how the universe began.

As I have stated, I have a degree in science. However, I will never forget the first applied science college exam I took, I flunked it. Why? Because I answered "true" to a series of questions which were framed as "Science has proven..." because I thought it sounded rational. Come to find out... Science had THEORIZED these things, not PROVEN them. So I learned this very valuable lesson in my first semester of college, and I find it fucking astonishing that we have so many supposedly educated science people here who simply don't seem to realize this. Science never PROVES things. Sometimes we can conclude there is a very high probability based on observation and testing through science, but there is always the possibility of a theory being wrong. Science doesn't "conclude" anything, it continues to test it's theories and doesn't assume they are empirical facts. Even if a theory has been tested a million times and found to be true, all it takes is for the theory to fail once and the theory is no longer valid.

Now, with this question of the universe and how it originated, the science problem is exacerbated because there is no way to test or observe any theory. We can't reproduce the conditions. To sit here day after day presenting all these theories that can't be tested or falsified, as if they are some kind of known facts, is laughable to me. It's NOT science! It's fanatical zealotry at it's best, trying to prop itself up with Science!

 

[edthecynic]

Physical reality began with time.

Prove it.

 

[Boss]

Prove the existence of such a universe without simply pontificating its existence, Mr BS degree.

LMAO... How the hell do I prove the "existence" of a universe that doesn't exist? I have never heard anything so fucking convoluted in my life!

Prove Jesus doesn't live in his own universe inside one of your brain cells, moron!

 

[Boss]

Physical reality began with time.

Prove it.

Space-time comprise all 4 dimensions of reality.

Proven! NEXT?

 

[edthecynic]

When you present valid proof that there was no time, space or energy. These are all theories, none of which have been scientifically proven. A singularity is as valid a theory at this time as any of the bullshit you have pontificated.

You stated Singularity as if it's a known fact of Science. IT IS NOT! That was my only point. Now you are admitting it is a theory, which I have no problem with. As long as it's clarified, Singularity is NOT a fact.

Spacetime (space + time) is one of the four dimensional aspects of the universe. To argue that these existed BEFORE the physical universe existed is like saying your brain existed BEFORE your parents conceived you. It simply defies logic and reason.

BULLSHIT!

Everyone here has been discussing theory, except you who have been pontificating as if you were God.

Space/time is not ONE of the 4 dimensions, it is all 4, 3 of space and one of time. Now you will not admit you have no idea what you posted and instead claim that you were calling spacetime 4D all along.

No one is arguing your Straw Man no matter how many times you repeat it.
I have been arguing that energy has always existed and will always exist in the same total quantity and was existing compressed into an extremely small SPACE at the singularity when the universe was neither expanding nor contracting at t = 0. That is quite different from the bullshit Straw Man you have been arguing against, but you pretend you are too stupid to know the difference so you can continue to argue for the sake of arguing.

Physical reality began with time.

Prove it.

Space-time comprise all 4 dimensions of reality.

Proven! NEXT?

Glad you have finally come around to my side on space-time not being one Dimension, but you haven't proven physical reality began with TIME. In Physics TIME exists ONLY in terms of motion, so you have not proven that something does not physically exist if it doesn't move.

 

[edthecynic]

Physical reality began with time.

Prove it.

Space-time comprise all 4 dimensions of reality.

Proven! NEXT?

Wow, how Sciencey!
You must be a BS in Pontification holder.

 

[sealybobo]

*sigh* Delta, what you are doing is imagining "God" as some kind of physical being with some sort of "magic" capabilities, including invisibility. Maybe there is no way to get this through to you... perhaps your mind is incapable of comprehending it? God is not a physical "being" of any kind.

What we know about is the physical universe. We do know a lot about it, but there is much we don't know or understand. For some reason, every era of humans that come along, think they have figured everything out and know all there is to know. Yet we keep discovering new things, we keep finding that we were totally wrong about what we thought we knew. Then, we go along a way thinking... NOW we've finally got it! NOW we really DO know everything... WRONG! We still don't know everything and we probably never will.

Regardless of whether you "believe in God" or not, regardless of what your mind concocts as "God" in your fertile little imagination... the physical universe is here and it is moving. The parameters of what it is and what it's doing cannot be explained simply with physics. How it began or what set it into motion, are equally unexplainable. It gets old reading the same old tired Atheist rants explaining this stuff away with physical nature. Nothing we know of in physical nature has ever created itself. You are a human being... you began as a fused sperm and egg cell inside another person. Now, you can look at your body and foolishly argue that this is impossible because you simply can't imagine such a ridiculous thing, but that's how you began... it's how you were created. Pointing to your size, your ability to walk and talk, and have intelligent thought... doesn't disprove how you originated. Just as it doesn't explain away how the universe originated to point to physical properties of the universe.

"Science doesn' know everything" isn't proof of "god". It is, though, the single most conisistent moronic lack of reasoning displayed by people that argue the existance of god.

I never said that science not knowing everything is proof of God. However... I am getting really quite tired of this fucking double standard and one-way street, where science can be paraded around as "evidence" there is no God, but be excused and dismissed when it doesn't adequately answer the tough questions. Science neither proves or disproves God, it can't... it's PHYSICAL science. If it was designed and intended to study SPIRITUAL things, perhaps it COULD prove or disprove God!

Physical reality began with time. Whenever time and space began, that is when our physical reality and laws of the physical universe began. We simply have no idea of what happened BEFORE that. I continue to read the ramblings of people who "supposedly" have educational backgrounds in science, telling us as matter of fact, how the universe began.

As I have stated, I have a degree in science. However, I will never forget the first applied science college exam I took, I flunked it. Why? Because I answered "true" to a series of questions which were framed as "Science has proven..." because I thought it sounded rational. Come to find out... Science had THEORIZED these things, not PROVEN them. So I learned this very valuable lesson in my first semester of college, and I find it fucking astonishing that we have so many supposedly educated science people here who simply don't seem to realize this. Science never PROVES things. Sometimes we can conclude there is a very high probability based on observation and testing through science, but there is always the possibility of a theory being wrong. Science doesn't "conclude" anything, it continues to test it's theories and doesn't assume they are empirical facts. Even if a theory has been tested a million times and found to be true, all it takes is for the theory to fail once and the theory is no longer valid.

Now, with this question of the universe and how it originated, the science problem is exacerbated because there is no way to test or observe any theory. We can't reproduce the conditions. To sit here day after day presenting all these theories that can't be tested or falsified, as if they are some kind of known facts, is laughable to me. It's NOT science! It's fanatical zealotry at it's best, trying to prop itself up with Science!

1.. Phenomenon X has a non-physical component.

Baseless assertion. Unfalsifiable. How can you prove it?

There have been numerous claims of the supernatural, none of which have ever been demonstrated to be true. Furthermore, these claims are often mutually contradictory, and people who believe in one form of supernatural or paranormal activity will usually not believe in others due to cognitive bias and wishful thinking.

Proposing a non-physical explanation for an observed or imagined/fabricated phenomena is not a testable hypothesis and is therefore unworthy of serious consideration. It precludes any deeper insight or understanding and offers no means of distinction from any other possible supernatural claim.

There are many as yet unexplained phenomena and anomalies in nature. The scientific approach to these is to say “I don’t know yet” and keep on looking, not to presume an answer which makes us comfortable.

Note: This claim often represents a deep discomfort with uncertainty or ambiguity, demonstrating a lack of critical thinking or poor understanding of a topic. It usually coincides with credulity, which is the tendency to believe in propositions unsupported by evidence. See also: gullibility.

2. I can’t believe/understand a world without God OR No god is too unlikely.

Argument from incredulity / Lack of imagination and Argumentum ad Ignorantiam. Ignores and does not eliminate the fact that something can seem incredible or unlikely and still be true, or appear to be obvious or likely and yet still be false.

The world is the way it is. Reality does not bend to our personal whim and facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. Our personal belief in something does not automatically make it real or true and, conversely, our lack of understanding of a topic does not make it false.

Until we understand something we “do not know”. Positing a ‘god’ in place of admitting personal ignorance is an unfounded leap which demonstrates a fundamental lack of humility.

The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.