How did the Universe get here?

[emilynghiem]

What is the highest power? We don't know where all this came from or what created it. But when science finds out, you can be sure it won't be god.

“God is an ever-receding pocket of ignorance that’s getting smaller and smaller as time goes on.”- Neil deGrasse Tyson

Why does that something that created the universe have to be a god? And what does that event have to do with love, truth or justice? Those things meant nothing for millions of years as the universe was forming. They only mean something to humans. Put it this way. Lets take the time from the big bang all the way until human's invented god and put that in a single calendar year. Human's would only be on the calendar on the last hour of the last day of the year. Whatever started the universe has nothing to do with anything you are talking about. Sounds good but really you aren't explaining anything.

And you say, "either way god is infinite". How did you conclude that based on all the nonsense you just wrote?

Then you say, "Even if we cannot prove any of these things, we can at least agree how to apply what we do believe is right, true and good in the world and focus on where we agree." No lady. If you can't prove these things then there is nothing to apply. We can all agree to do what is right and be true and be good without calling it god. Stop it.

Dear [MENTION=11281]sealybobo[/MENTION]
I think you are reading my msgs and intent backwards from what I mean
I am NOT trying to push/justify pushing "God" on people
I have plenty of friends who do not need or believe in any such "God"
and we work things out perfectly without this or any problems

My POINT is that you can take the definition of God and make it someting false
or conflicting and make it fail. ok great so that thing doesn't make sense or exist. fine

OR you can find something you do believe has meaning and use
and "align" the meanings of God with that, so you can make sense or use of it.

I am offering options.
You are free to pick none of these.
but some people LIKE the idea of god as truth, or wisdom, etc. and use that for them

I am not going to deny people their choice of how to reconcile with theists
I am going to offer as many alternatives I found worked for me and others
and let people choose what works for them. they don't have to believe in god
to align the meanings that make sense so we can communicate.

is that more clear?

 

[edthecynic]

Energy is not spiritual. It is a physical entity that can be measured.

If energy is immortal, prove it's not spiritual. If you do this, then explain why immortality can apply to something physical but not something spiritual?

Learn to read.

I did read. You stating something is not proof. Sorry.

Where is your evidence?

How Is Energy Measured? - For Dummies

 

[Boss]

Already proven. NEXT?

Not proven. Still waiting.

Obviously the proof went over your head. NEXT?

Not seeing any proof, not seeing any evidence. I see you pontificating and making a statement you can't back up. Come on now, let's see the evidence?

I actually think you are on to something here, you've "proven" that immortality exists.

 

[Boss]

If energy is immortal, prove it's not spiritual. If you do this, then explain why immortality can apply to something physical but not something spiritual?

Learn to read.

I did read. You stating something is not proof. Sorry.

Where is your evidence?

How Is Energy Measured? - For Dummies

LOL... When did I claim energy couldn't be measured? How does that have anything to do with proving it's not spiritual?

 

[emilynghiem]

You don't suppost that's because there is a repeatable experiment that proved it. Go figure?

Just as there is no experiment that proves God exists, there is none that proves he/she/it doesn't.

There is no experiment that proves unicorns don't exist either. Somwhat's your point?

[MENTION=23239]westwall[/MENTION]: Christian spiritual heaing can be proven medically to have profound effects on people and diseases that no other method can cure. Read the books on Healing by Dr. MacNutt and research by Dale Matthews and Larry Dorsey. We may not ever be able to prove what is going on spiritually but statistics and repeat studies can show patterns of healing and the process to show that it follows natural laws of science.

[MENTION=35236]itfitzme[/MENTION] good point
the difference is people generally agree that unicorns don't exist so we don't demand proof to prove it or not
when people understand what god means and how spiritual laws works
we will not ask for proof anymore because we already understand it aligns with what we already know and experience in life it is natural
it will be like understanding what people mean by dreams they had at night
or understanding that gravity works no matter what we call it or even if we don't study the laws, we use gravity anyway

when we all agree what we mean by the will or forces of god or nature
we won't need proof because we agree what we're talking about as naturally occurring

 

[westwall]

You don't suppost that's because there is a repeatable experiment that proved it. Go figure?

Just as there is no experiment that proves God exists, there is none that proves he/she/it doesn't.

You could say that about the Super God that created your God, and the Super Duper God that created Super God, and the Ultra Super God that created Super Duper God, and the Ultra Super Duper God that created Super Duper God. Does it seem like as weak an argument to you as it does to me?

No. It's a statement of fact.

 

[Boss]

Energy is not spiritual. It is a physical entity that can be measured.

So now you have argued that not only does immortality exist, it can be quantified as well.

Bravo!

 

[itfitzme]

If energy is immortal, prove it's not spiritual. If you do this, then explain why immortality can apply to something physical but not something spiritual?

Everytime you use the word "spiritual", you demonstrate that you don't have a clue.

Really? Because it seems I am demonstrating that YOU don't have a clue!

Only in your own mind. You have yet to say anything of any substance?

 

[itfitzme]

Just as there is no experiment that proves God exists, there is none that proves he/she/it doesn't.

There is no experiment that proves unicorns don't exist either. Somwhat's your point?

[MENTION=23239]westwall[/MENTION]: Christian spiritual heaing can be proven medically to have profound effects on people and diseases that no other method can cure. Read the books on Healing by Dr. MacNutt and research by Dale Matthews and Larry Dorsey. We may not ever be able to prove what is going on spiritually but statistics and repeat studies can show patterns of healing and the process to show that it follows natural laws of science.

[MENTION=35236]itfitzme[/MENTION] good point
the difference is people generally agree that unicorns don't exist so we don't demand proof to prove it or not
when people understand what god means and how spiritual laws works
we will not ask for proof anymore because we already understand it aligns with what we already know and experience in life it is natural
it will be like understanding what people mean by dreams they had at night
or understanding that gravity works no matter what we call it or even if we don't study the laws, we use gravity anyway

when we all agree what we mean by the will or forces of god or nature
we won't need proof because we agree what we're talking about as naturally occurring

The point exactly. There is no substance to these concepts of god and spiritual. As mankind has progressed since the time of the darknages, fewerenand fewer people even consider them as having any meaning at all. They are meaningless concepts with no fondation upon which to yield any agreement.

 

[itfitzme]

If energy is immortal, prove it's not spiritual. If you do this, then explain why immortality can apply to something physical but not something spiritual?

Everytime you use the word "spiritual", you demonstrate that you don't have a clue.

Really? Because it seems I am demonstrating that YOU don't have a clue!

It is perfectly obvious that you have absolutely no clue what energy is.

Do you know how the conservation of energy was initially concieved of and by whom?

How is thr energy of a physical object calculated?

You keep these words like you know wha they mean.

 

[itfitzme]

Just as there is no experiment that proves God exists, there is none that proves he/she/it doesn't.

You could say that about the Super God that created your God, and the Super Duper God that created Super God, and the Ultra Super God that created Super Duper God, and the Ultra Super Duper God that created Super Duper God. Does it seem like as weak an argument to you as it does to me?

No. It's a statement of fact.

Well, in fact, a series of experiments and observations that have definitely proven that "god" doesn't exist.

Once again, it's a matter of how the experimental method works and the formulation of the null hypothesis.

 

[Boss]

Everytime you use the word "spiritual", you demonstrate that you don't have a clue.

Really? Because it seems I am demonstrating that YOU don't have a clue!

Only in your own mind. You have yet to say anything of any substance?

Yes... demonstrated by the fact you've presented voluminous evidence to counter my arguments here.

 

[Boss]

Everytime you use the word "spiritual", you demonstrate that you don't have a clue.

Really? Because it seems I am demonstrating that YOU don't have a clue!

It is perfectly obvious that you have absolutely no clue what energy is.

Do you know how the conservation of energy was initially concieved of and by whom?

How is thr energy of a physical object calculated?

You keep these words like you know wha they mean.

There are various ways energy is calculated, read eddy's "How energy is measured for dummies" to learn about those. Of course, his link didn't mention "dark energy" which actually comprises most of the energy in our universe.

Being able to measure energy doesn't prove it's not spiritual. I'm still waiting for that evidence to be submitted. So far, none of you have done that.

 

[itfitzme]

If energy is immortal, prove it's not spiritual. If you do this, then explain why immortality can apply to something physical but not something spiritual?

Learn to read.

I did read. You stating something is not proof. Sorry.

Where is your evidence?

You continue to maintain the same bullshit reasoning that if it can't be proven to not exist then it can be taken as existing.

That is a defining characteristic of a psychosis.

Sanity is the outcome of feedback with the world around us. Insanity occurs when people lose touch with reality. We seem this all the time. It is highlighted by the paranoid delusional personality that rejects all manner of feedback from the world around. But insanity isn't some all or nothing characteristic. It's a continuum, a smooth continuous scale that runs from mostly sane to completely insane, with varying shades between.

A lack of proof is not proof.

 

[edthecynic]

Energy is not spiritual. It is a physical entity that can be measured.

So now you have argued that not only does immortality exist, it can be quantified as well.

Bravo!

Back to your Straw Men again. I argued ENERGY can be quantified.

 

[edthecynic]

Really? Because it seems I am demonstrating that YOU don't have a clue!

It is perfectly obvious that you have absolutely no clue what energy is.

Do you know how the conservation of energy was initially concieved of and by whom?

How is thr energy of a physical object calculated?

You keep these words like you know wha they mean.

There are various ways energy is calculated, read eddy's "How energy is measured for dummies" to learn about those. Of course, his link didn't mention "dark energy" which actually comprises most of the energy in our universe.

Being able to measure energy doesn't prove it's not spiritual. I'm still waiting for that evidence to be submitted. So far, none of you have done that.

Yes it does by proving it is physical.

http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/news/2011-04

 

[itfitzme]

Really? Because it seems I am demonstrating that YOU don't have a clue!

It is perfectly obvious that you have absolutely no clue what energy is.

Do you know how the conservation of energy was initially concieved of and by whom?

How is thr energy of a physical object calculated?

You keep these words like you know wha they mean.

There are various ways energy is calculated, read eddy's "How energy is measured for dummies" to learn about those. Of course, his link didn't mention "dark energy" which actually comprises most of the energy in our universe.

Being able to measure energy doesn't prove it's not spiritual. I'm still waiting for that evidence to be submitted. So far, none of you have done that.

That's what I thought, you are clueless? Any specific answer would have sufficed? The simplest is E=0.5*m*v^2. Shit, you coulda gone with the famous one, E = m*c^2. Youmcould have gone with E=mgh. Yeah, there are a number of them. None of which you know. So you don't know what the term "energy" even means.

You are simply full of shit.

What I keep hoping for is you can explain for us why insane people like you work so hard at it. That is the one mystery I just can't answer myself.

 

[Boss]

Energy is not spiritual. It is a physical entity that can be measured.

So now you have argued that not only does immortality exist, it can be quantified as well.

Bravo!

Back to your Straw Men again. I argued ENERGY can be quantified.

Indeed! And previously you argued that energy can't be created or destroyed and has always existed, which makes it immortal by definition. Ergo: You have now established that immortality exists and it can be quantified. What you haven't done is prove energy isn't spiritual.

 

[Boss]

It is perfectly obvious that you have absolutely no clue what energy is.

Do you know how the conservation of energy was initially concieved of and by whom?

How is thr energy of a physical object calculated?

You keep these words like you know wha they mean.

There are various ways energy is calculated, read eddy's "How energy is measured for dummies" to learn about those. Of course, his link didn't mention "dark energy" which actually comprises most of the energy in our universe.

Being able to measure energy doesn't prove it's not spiritual. I'm still waiting for that evidence to be submitted. So far, none of you have done that.

Yes it does by proving it is physical.

The Best Way to Measure Dark Energy Just Got Better | www.cfa.harvard.edu/

Maybe spiritual nature has "duality?"

 

[Boss]

Well, in fact, a series of experiments and observations that have definitely proven that "god" doesn't exist.

You continue to maintain the same bullshit reasoning that if it can't be proven to not exist then it can be taken as existing.

That's what I thought, you are clueless? You are simply full of shit.

The evolution of ignorance on display.

1. Nothing has proven God doesn't exist.
2. My reasoning is, if you can't prove something you can't claim something is proven.
3. Name calling is the last resort for the intellectually weak.