How did the Universe get here?

[HUGGY]

Yes, if the Universe was eternal there would be no need for a creator. But being that it is just right for life to flourish on this planet I believe it was created.

Dating methods put an age on the Universe and life.

I can fully understand that to some intelligent minds it seems a remarkable coincidense that life happened here. One might ask "how is it that we are so lucky?"

We can break it down like the "goldilocks" approach to a planetary comfort zone for the possibility of life to exist in the universe. Subtracting the known potential for disaster and extinction they(the scientists) speculate that there are possibly billions of planets that would be good places for life to start and flourish.

Yes we do live in an extremely interesting time and place. The cosmic dice were tossed and we won without having to do anything but survive. A few million years one way or the other and poof...we are gone. It all seems just a little TOO fortunate.

Then some joker(me) says very calmly and plainly... "Hey!...what's the big deal? Get a grip! We are here. That's all we need to know."

There is/was no hocus pocus...just dumb luck. There is no "Why". Just enjoy the ride...it won't be forever. Even if we survive ourselves and some killer asteroid in the future or a predatory alien race that follows our dinner bell beacons back to Earth eventually the universe will collapse in a trillion years and there isn't a damned thing we can do about it.

My guess is that there have been races of intelligent beings many times in the infinite past that have lived right up till the monster black hole...the biggest and last one swallowed up the previous universe and the ones before that. I bet they ALL thought they were special.

A planet that is a self correcting system,living creatures with defense mechanisms. Just too many miracles if you ask me and the best explanation given was by the creator himself.

Well... In light of this new information it would appear it is settled then..

 

[Delta4Embassy]

To clear up the seemingly miraculous occurence of life existing here, or any where else requires a bit of neuroscience. What some believe is incredible luck or miracles is in fact merely how your brain processes information while not possessing all the facts. We see an event we don't understand and rather than spending time to understand what occured, we chalk it up to God or luck, or some other pat answer.

Life exists on Earth because it does. If it didn't we wouldn't be musing over it. BUt that it does isn't at all remarkable. Here on Earth, life exists because it can. If it couldn't, it wouldn't. It really is as simple as that.

To pu t it another way, of the thousands of planets so far discovered, life exists on only 1 of them for sure, our's. So life on planets may only occur 1 in a few thousand times, small odds to some until you learn there's more planets in the universe than stars so something which occurs just 1 in 2000 times will have occured literally billions of times throughout the universe. Suddenly it's not so remarkable any more.

 

[HUGGY]

To clear up the seemingly miraculous occurence of life existing here, or any where else requires a bit of neuroscience. What some believe is incredible luck or miracles is in fact merely how your brain processes information while not possessing all the facts. We see an event we don't understand and rather than spending time to understand what occured, we chalk it up to God or luck, or some other pat answer.

Life exists on Earth because it does. If it didn't we wouldn't be musing over it. BUt that it does isn't at all remarkable. Here on Earth, life exists because it can. If it couldn't, it wouldn't. It really is as simple as that.

To pu t it another way, of the thousands of planets so far discovered, life exists on only 1 of them for sure, our's. So life on planets may only occur 1 in a few thousand times, small odds to some until you learn there's more planets in the universe than stars so something which occurs just 1 in 2000 times will have occured literally billions of times throughout the universe. Suddenly it's not so remarkable any more.

Intellectually lazy people are not looking to "clear things up".

 

[Delta4Embassy]

In fairness to them, sometimes, especially here, ignorance is preferable. Like with UFOs. I'm far happier not knowing if aliens are buzzing around our atmosphere. They either are, and that'd be terrifying, or they aren't and that'd be disappointing (ironically.) But knowing with certainty isn't always preferable. If I knew for sure one way or the other God existed or didn't that'd be like knowing about UFOs. If I knew God existed I'd hate Him for being a hands-off, do-nothing deity not worth my worship. Conversely, if I knew it didn't exist nor anything anywhere akin to it, that'd kinda suck cause then we're all just microbes and nothing ultimately matters. But existing in the fog of uncertainty allows me to allow for the possibility and taking some comfort that maybe there is and all indications to the contrary are simply by design.

 

[HUGGY]

In fairness to them, sometimes, especially here, ignorance is preferable. Like with UFOs. I'm far happier not knowing if aliens are buzzing around our atmosphere. They either are, and that'd be terrifying, or they aren't and that'd be disappointing (ironically.) But knowing with certainty isn't always preferable. If I knew for sure one way or the other God existed or didn't that'd be like knowing about UFOs. If I knew God existed I'd hate Him for being a hands-off, do-nothing deity not worth my worship. Conversely, if I knew it didn't exist nor anything anywhere akin to it, that'd kinda suck cause then we're all just microbes and nothing ultimately matters. But existing in the fog of uncertainty allows me to allow for the possibility and taking some comfort that maybe there is and all indications to the contrary are simply by design.

I take comfort in knowing what future we have is up to us.

 

[PratchettFan]

Bush did it.

So it is Obama's fault.

 

[Unkotare]

There was this German Theoretical Physicist who posited that the universe isn't expanding, but rather had always been just where it is and how it is. He explained the differing wavelengths that most generally accept as proof of expansion as the result of the universe getting heavier.


I suspect he smokes a lot of weed.

 

[BobPlumb]

Isn't it ironic that our universe requires a creator, yet the creator is timeless.

 

[Mr Natural]

To attribute creation of the universe to some almighty supreme human-like being is nothing more than arrogance on our part.

 

[BobPlumb]

For all we know, our universe may be a small particle or atom existing in a much larger universe. I can just imagine some super large life form that exist on a larger scale than our abilities to perceive that is composed of massive amounts of these particles. There may be a group of scientists in this universe that is trying to understand the particles that are made of the same way we are trying to understand the atoms and atom particles that form matter in our universe.

We are so limited.

 

[Unkotare]

For all we know, our universe may be a small particle or atom existing in a much larger universe. I can just imagine some super large life form that exist on a larger scale than our abilities to perceive that is composed of massive amounts of these particles. There may be a group of scientists in this universe that is trying to understand the particles that are made of the same way we are trying to understand the atoms and atom particles that form matter in our universe.

We are so limited.

Yeah, yeah, we all saw the end of Men in Black II.

 

[BobPlumb]

For all we know, our universe may be a small particle or atom existing in a much larger universe. I can just imagine some super large life form that exist on a larger scale than our abilities to perceive that is composed of massive amounts of these particles. There may be a group of scientists in this universe that is trying to understand the particles that are made of the same way we are trying to understand the atoms and atom particles that form matter in our universe.

We are so limited.

Yeah, yeah, we all saw the end of Men in Black II.

Don't diss men in black!

 

[Unkotare]

 

[emilynghiem]

How did the Universe (i.e. everything that exists) get here?

And if you believe there are multiple universes, then how did the Multiverse get here?

We know the Universe wasn't always here, and will end sometime in the future.

How did everything begin, and what happens after the end?

I'm looking for an answer from those of you who say God definitely does not exist.

There are people who believe it came from a Big Bang,
and whatever energy or force it took to create that Bang just happened.

There are people who believe the Universe has always existed, with no beginning or end, and it is merely our "perception and relationship" with the Universe and its laws that
has a beginning.

There are people who "personify" the forces and laws of the Universe
in God or Jesus, and those who do not. Many are just as content to
explain universal laws in terms of Wisdom and Truth without using God.
or Justice and Peace without expressing this spiritual process in the story of Christ Jesus.

It's still the same laws and relationships at work
connecting humanity with the world and people around us.

It does not matter how we might express these laws and patterns,
as long as we can communicate with each other, with or without help of a translator
where we speak different languages for these same universal laws and principles
(using religious, political or secular laws of science, or just personal experiences).

 

[emilynghiem]

To attribute creation of the universe to some almighty supreme human-like being is nothing more than arrogance on our part.

[MENTION=20594]Mr Clean[/MENTION]
It depends on the person doing the attributing,
if this is a projection of arrogance
or an expression of childlike humility.

 

[Boss]

I love reading threads like this because it is fascinating to see how some people try to justify their objective reality. Theories that something physical existed before the Big Bang, before there was space and time for the physical to exist, are completely baseless and devoid of logic. As are the demands to know what "created" something that is non-physical and doesn't physically exist. The theory of the Big Bang/Crunch... that our universe operates in cycles, is obsolete and has been debunked within the past 20 years, but some people cling to this theory because they think it makes sense. Well, things that seem to make sense are often not true in physics. At one time (not that long ago in the scope of time) virtually everyone believed the earth was flat and the universe revolved around the earth, because that made sense.

Quantum mechanics is proving every day just how little we actually know. Our universe and reality is comprised of matter, which is simply atoms responding to frequency. We have a perception of objective reality due to an expanding universe which is not slowing down but speeding up. Time is relative to the observer, this is what Einstein proved with the Theory of Relativity. Without time, nothing physical can exist, there can be no perception of reality. Reality is merely our perception of time in the present, but the value of time is not consistent, it is relative to the observer. There is no perception of material reality past or future, only the present. Does the past exist? Yes and no. In the sense that we can recall time passed, it exists as memory, but it no longer has material presence in our objective reality. Does the future exist? We don't know. We can presume it does, but that is a faith-based presumption. So we can realize the only thing that physically exists in reality is the moment in space/time defined as "now." And "now" exists only because the universe is expanding and creating more spacetime for physical reality to exist.

IF the universe was timeless and eternal, without end, then we wouldn't have entropy. The fact that entropy exists is proof the universe will eventually end. IF the universe were supposed to "cycle" with an impending "Big Crunch" it would be slowing down, not speeding up. In fact, this realization that our universe is accelerating has caused many physicists to question a "Big Bang" to begin with. Explosion doesn't cause increase in relative velocity... when you fire a gun, the bullet is travelling at it's fastest speed when it leaves the barrel and will become slower the further it travels. The bullet doesn't speed up. If there was a "Big Bang" it seems that our universe is defying Newtonian Laws of Motion.

This is where quantum physics is so intriguing and amazing to me. It simply stands on it's ear, everything we have ever understood about physics and math and the universe itself. It is very much akin to the discovery the earth is not flat. All that we thought we knew can be set aside because it is no longer relevant. What we seem to be discovering is conscious observation controls reality. Try wrapping your minds around that one.

 

[PostmodernProph]

To pu t it another way, of the thousands of planets so far discovered, life exists on only 1 of them for sure, our's. So life on planets may only occur 1 in a few thousand times, small odds to some until you learn there's more planets in the universe than stars so something which occurs just 1 in 2000 times will have occured literally billions of times throughout the universe. Suddenly it's not so remarkable any more.

will your math change if we look at the next 200 million planets and find nothing?.....

look at it this way.....if you look at one planet it can have a) life or b) no life......thus the possible range of finding life on a trillion planets can be anything from a trillion times one or a trillion times zero.....

 

[Boss]

To attribute creation of the universe to some almighty supreme human-like being is nothing more than arrogance on our part.

I have to agree that it's a simplistic notion to imagine a God as a human-like entity with human-like attributes. In trying to imagine such an entity, I can clearly see why so many people claim a disbelief in this sort of a God. However, as humans living in a physical state of reality, we can't imagine anything outside our scope of understanding and objective reality. What you have to understand is, things can "exist" (in a sense) outside our concept of objective reality, we are just unable to objectively realize them.

Logic is merely an attribute we've assigned to what we can objectively realize in our physical reality. It's really all we have as a basis for knowledge and understanding as humans in a physical realm. However, a spiritual God doesn't have to conform to logic. A spiritual creating force doesn't have to conform to any concept we can even relate to in our physical reality. It is something way beyond our comprehension. That said, we can use logic to deduce that the physical certainly didn't create the physical. If the universe exists and is in motion, we can logically deduce that some force set it in motion and caused it to come into physical existence. If that force cannot be physical, it can only be non-physical. Religion and Gods aside, this is basic logic that can't be avoided.

 

[Boss]

So life on planets may only occur 1 in a few thousand times, small odds to some until you learn there's more planets in the universe than stars so something which occurs just 1 in 2000 times will have occured literally billions of times throughout the universe.

You are discounting a myriad of details here. We have a sun that is a certain size and our planet is in a certain proximity to that sun. This is just ONE detail. Our planetary orbit around the sun is fairly elliptical, causing stability of many conditional parameters, another detail. Our planet contains an overwhelming abundance of liquid H2O (water), another single detail. Because of those details (and several others) our planet has a predominately nitrogen-oxygen atmosphere, with layers of ozone to shield the surface from harmful radiation... another very important detail. We have a geosynchronous moon revolving around our planet, it is believed that this moon's collision with early earth is what causes our planet to wobble in rotation, which gives us seasons. The gravity of just the right sized moon gives us tides in our water oceans. More and more intricate details which are needed for life to exist on this planet. Details that, if they were off just a little bit, would render the planet uninhabitable by any life we know of. We happen to be in a solar system with Jupiter, a planet large enough and with enough gravity to attract most of the asteroids and meteors rocketing through space, preventing life-ending calamity on our planet from happening daily. Back to the seasons we have because we were fortunate enough to have the right sized moon collide with the planet early on and come to rest in geosynchronous orbit, giving us an atmosphere but also enabling a climate system. One that works with relative precision in delivering rain and having an evaporation process, without which life could not exist. Over and over and over and over and over and over... SO many circumstances... SO many details... ALL of which are important to life on the planet.

There are a lot of "just so happens" circumstances here. This is not to say that some forms of life aren't out there somewhere, but the overwhelming number of circumstances which would have to exist are extraordinary, and it means that life elsewhere is rare if it does exist. Yes, there are possibly trillions of planets out there, but how many of them are fortunate enough to have all the right parameters for life? Out of those few exceptional planets, how many have an abundance of life strong enough to be interdependent and continue the process long enough to evolve intelligence?

Now here is an even more fascinating concept, what if there is another form of life that we don't comprehend? What if life can exist in other dimensions within our universe? We are aware of antimatter, what if there is "anti-life" out there, operating on completely different frequency than our own? Not confined to our physics and reality? ANYTHING is possible!

 

[Uncensored2008]

Do we know that the universe is finite?

Yes, that is the current scientific theory. I can't post a link because I don't have enough posts yet, so you will have to take my word for it, for now.

I'm not sure I can take your word for it. The theory of relativity is, for all intents and purposes, set in stone. Theories that the universe is finite, however, are still being debated, aren't they?

I don't believe that a finite universe or an infinite one disproves the existence of God, though.

I know of no theory that postulates a finite universe. The universe is expanding from the big bang and will at some point reach an extent where gravity is more powerful on a macro basis than the velocity of the big bang. At that point, the universe will start to contract. It will contract until all matter/energy will condense into a single point. This condensing will reach a critical point where the nuclei of atoms can no longer move, at which point it will explode in a big bang......