How did the Universe get here?

[Blackrook]

If the Universe is and always was and always will be, and exists everywhere, then the Universe itself is God.

 

[HUGGY]

Why was all that matter and energy concentrated into such a small space? I mean, how did that happen?

My own personal theory is that the universe in caught in a never ending cycle of expansion and contraction.

I believe that after the universe has reached it's maximum expansion black holes suck it into contraction until one massive black hole compresses all known matter into a state without distance between the particles of matter. As the super black hole runs out of particles/matter/smaller black holes to consume a big bang occurs and the universe expands only to collapse again over and over into infinity.

How did this cycle begin?

It may be neccesary for you to explore the possibility that there is no such thing as a beginning or an end at the scale of the universe.

We as humans are seemingly locked into certain "truths" such as birth and death as these concepts relate to our own existants.

The problem with extrapolating the Birth or Death of a universe or a god acting as a creator begs the question of who or what created the creator and on and on. UNLESS you can pothlesize that god didn't need a creator then you should have no problem believing the universe didn't need one either.

 

[Blackrook]

My own personal theory is that the universe in caught in a never ending cycle of expansion and contraction.

I believe that after the universe has reached it's maximum expansion black holes suck it into contraction until one massive black hole compresses all known matter into a state without distance between the particles of matter. As the super black hole runs out of particles/matter/smaller black holes to consume a big bang occurs and the universe expands only to collapse again over and over into infinity.

How did this cycle begin?

It may be neccesary for you to explore the possibility that there is no such thing as a beginning or an end at the scale of the universe.

We as humans are seemingly locked into certain "truths" such as birth and death as these concepts relate to our own existants.

The problem with extrapolating the Birth or Death of a universe or a god acting as a creator begs the question of who or what created the creator and on and on. UNLESS you can pothlesize that god didn't need a creator then you should have no problem believing the universe didn't need one either.

So what you are saying is that the Universe always was here, and nothing caused it to be here, it just got here by itself, and you have no explanation for how that happened?

 

[Youwerecreated]

My own personal theory is that the universe in caught in a never ending cycle of expansion and contraction.

I believe that after the universe has reached it's maximum expansion black holes suck it into contraction until one massive black hole compresses all known matter into a state without distance between the particles of matter. As the super black hole runs out of particles/matter/smaller black holes to consume a big bang occurs and the universe expands only to collapse again over and over into infinity.

How did this cycle begin?

It may be neccesary for you to explore the possibility that there is no such thing as a beginning or an end at the scale of the universe.

We as humans are seemingly locked into certain "truths" such as birth and death as these concepts relate to our own existants.

The problem with extrapolating the Birth or Death of a universe or a god acting as a creator begs the question of who or what created the creator and on and on. UNLESS you can pothlesize that god didn't need a creator then you should have no problem believing the universe didn't need one either.

Please explain why the creator of all had to be created ?

So you don't believe in dating methods.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Simply put, no one knows for sure how old or how the universe began absent of a creator.

 

[Youwerecreated]

You better do better than that my good man. The Big Bang theory is merely the latest in a long line of theories of how the universe began. There are still adherents to the steady state theory because there are loads of problems with the BB theory. One of the biggest being how do galaxies collide when they are supposed to be expanding away from each other?

"NEW YORK, N.Y. – Scientists who made headlines in March with their research on the early universe are now acknowledging that they may have been mistaken.

In a paper published Thursday, the researchers stood by their initial conclusion — that they had found long-sought evidence for a rapid ballooning of the universe a split-second after its birth.

But they said they could not rule out the possibility that a crucial signal they believe came from deep in the cosmos was actually caused by dust in the Milky Way galaxy. If true, their claim for detecting the evidence of so-called cosmic inflation right after the Big Bang would evaporate."



Headline-grabbing Big Bang researchers worry of cosmic error | Metro

Even if the universe is infinite in time and space, which personally I think is impossible, that doesn't explain how it got here.

That's true. There are two ways it got here. Some THING (God) created it, or it has always been, and will always be here. You get to choose that which you believe.

I think the origins of life answers this question.

 

[September]

Tiamat

 

[HUGGY]

How did this cycle begin?

It may be neccesary for you to explore the possibility that there is no such thing as a beginning or an end at the scale of the universe.

We as humans are seemingly locked into certain "truths" such as birth and death as these concepts relate to our own existants.

The problem with extrapolating the Birth or Death of a universe or a god acting as a creator begs the question of who or what created the creator and on and on. UNLESS you can pothlesize that god didn't need a creator then you should have no problem believing the universe didn't need one either.

So what you are saying is that the Universe always was here, and nothing caused it to be here, it just got here by itself, and you have no explanation for how that happened?

In one form or another... yes.

 

[HUGGY]

How did this cycle begin?

It may be neccesary for you to explore the possibility that there is no such thing as a beginning or an end at the scale of the universe.

We as humans are seemingly locked into certain "truths" such as birth and death as these concepts relate to our own existants.

The problem with extrapolating the Birth or Death of a universe or a god acting as a creator begs the question of who or what created the creator and on and on. UNLESS you can pothlesize that god didn't need a creator then you should have no problem believing the universe didn't need one either.

Please explain why the creator of all had to be created ?

So you don't believe in dating methods.

For the same reason that some humans insist that the universe must have been created. If the universe always was there is no need for a creator.

What do dating methods have to do with anything? They are only relevant if matter, specifically the periodic table, has been formed. There was no periodic table before the big bang.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Yes, that is the current scientific theory. I can't post a link because I don't have enough posts yet, so you will have to take my word for it, for now.

I'm not sure I can take your word for it. The theory of relativity is, for all intents and purposes, set in stone. Theories that the universe is finite, however, is still being debated, isn't it?

I don't believe that a finite universe or an infinite one disproves the existence of God, though.

Well, you can just Google it yourself, I'm not stopping you. I don't believe there's one single astronomer who believes the universe is infinite.

Dr. Neil Degrasse Tyson talked about infinity and I just posted a stunning bit of video taken by Hubble. Here it is again --

But, to my knowledge, no one knows.

That's science though and I agree that it has little to do with the myth of god, jesus or any of the other religions.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

How did this cycle begin?

It may be neccesary for you to explore the possibility that there is no such thing as a beginning or an end at the scale of the universe.

We as humans are seemingly locked into certain "truths" such as birth and death as these concepts relate to our own existants.

The problem with extrapolating the Birth or Death of a universe or a god acting as a creator begs the question of who or what created the creator and on and on. UNLESS you can pothlesize that god didn't need a creator then you should have no problem believing the universe didn't need one either.

So what you are saying is that the Universe always was here, and nothing caused it to be here, it just got here by itself, and you have no explanation for how that happened?

That in itself is why humans invented gods - to explain the unexplainable, to know the unknowable.

 

[CTSV]

I personally like brane theory as a thought model for how our universe came into existence.

There are many theories out there, none is particularly provable at this point, but they are fun to debate from time to time.

I personally do not believe our lack of understanding of this huge and ancient problem as a demonstration that the only other choice is the existence of a deity that stands outside time with the unbelievable power to create an entire universe and understand it's ultimate fate. Humans have typically taken that approach, for a while lightning and thunder were evidence of a god, now that we understand them we don't need Thor anymore.

 

[PostmodernProph]

It may be neccesary for you to explore the possibility that there is no such thing as a beginning or an end at the scale of the universe.

We as humans are seemingly locked into certain "truths" such as birth and death as these concepts relate to our own existants.

The problem with extrapolating the Birth or Death of a universe or a god acting as a creator begs the question of who or what created the creator and on and on. UNLESS you can pothlesize that god didn't need a creator then you should have no problem believing the universe didn't need one either.

Please explain why the creator of all had to be created ?

So you don't believe in dating methods.

For the same reason that some humans insist that the universe must have been created. If the universe always was there is no need for a creator.

What do dating methods have to do with anything? They are only relevant if matter, specifically the periodic table, has been formed. There was no periodic table before the big bang.

so in other words, a universe which is not finite requires a metaphysical explanation.....

 

[HUGGY]

Please explain why the creator of all had to be created ?

So you don't believe in dating methods.

For the same reason that some humans insist that the universe must have been created. If the universe always was there is no need for a creator.

What do dating methods have to do with anything? They are only relevant if matter, specifically the periodic table, has been formed. There was no periodic table before the big bang.

so in other words, a universe which is not finite requires a metaphysical explanation.....

How do you know the universe is not finite?...at least the universe we live in. AND it depends on how you define "finite".

I do not agree that our universe requires a metaphysical explaination. Many human beings require a metaphysical explaination for things they do not understand. I am not in that camp.

If it can be shown that large mass black holes eat small mass black holes then there is a viable model of how the universe can collapse inwardly and still have the "stuff" to create a big bang. How the "Bang" gets set in motion I have no idea but "where" the "parts" come from that expand into a universe like the one we live in makes perfect sense to me.

 

[westwall]

Even if the universe is infinite in time and space, which personally I think is impossible, that doesn't explain how it got here.

That's true. There are two ways it got here. Some THING (God) created it, or it has always been, and will always be here. You get to choose that which you believe.

I think the origins of life answers this question.

Certainly if you believe in God it does. If you don't, then no, it doesn't.

 

[westwall]

I'm not sure I can take your word for it. The theory of relativity is, for all intents and purposes, set in stone. Theories that the universe is finite, however, is still being debated, isn't it?

I don't believe that a finite universe or an infinite one disproves the existence of God, though.

Well, you can just Google it yourself, I'm not stopping you. I don't believe there's one single astronomer who believes the universe is infinite.

Dr. Neil Degrasse Tyson talked about infinity and I just posted a stunning bit of video taken by Hubble. Here it is again --

But, to my knowledge, no one knows.

That's science though and I agree that it has little to do with the myth of god, jesus or any of the other religions.

The image is called the "Hubble Deep Field" and is another reason why I have issues with the Big Bang theory. I think the universe is much, much older than cosmologists believe.
It may have still started with a bang, but I think they are way off on their age estimates.

 

[PostmodernProph]

For the same reason that some humans insist that the universe must have been created. If the universe always was there is no need for a creator.

What do dating methods have to do with anything? They are only relevant if matter, specifically the periodic table, has been formed. There was no periodic table before the big bang.

so in other words, a universe which is not finite requires a metaphysical explanation.....

How do you know the universe is not finite?

well, lets put it this way....either the universe is finite or it isn't.....in the post I replied to you proposed a universe that always was and needed no creator......

however, science tells us the physical universe we live in did in fact have a beginning....so, whether you fall on string theory or some other method of traversing from some other universe to ours, it will in fact be a metaphysical explanation......

now if you argue instead that the universe is finite it needs to have a beginning and a cause.....can you postulate a beginning or a transition that resulted in our current universe that does NOT require a metaphysical explanation?......

 

[Mr. H.]

When one says "God exists", it conjures up all sorts of images. I don't think God is a being or a spirit or even sentient. I'm not saying God does exist, nor am I saying God doesn't exist.

But there is "something" that does. And that something itself was at one time the vast nothingness of non-matter before the physical Universe (as we know and recognize it) came to be

The Universe is the result of an event. The event when one "something" become two "somethings". It really is that simple.

 

[HUGGY]

so in other words, a universe which is not finite requires a metaphysical explanation.....

How do you know the universe is not finite?

well, lets put it this way....either the universe is finite or it isn't.....in the post I replied to you proposed a universe that always was and needed no creator......

however, science tells us the physical universe we live in did in fact have a beginning....so, whether you fall on string theory or some other method of traversing from some other universe to ours, it will in fact be a metaphysical explanation......

now if you argue instead that the universe is finite it needs to have a beginning and a cause.....can you postulate a beginning or a transition that resulted in our current universe that does NOT require a metaphysical explanation?......

Sure. That is an easy request.

First let me say that there was no "first". What you insist is the beginning I insist is just a point in time along the way for the stuff which after the big bang expanded into what we call our universe.

As far as I can tell the "big bang" scientists believe that in what YOU call the beginning all of the material needed was in the space of roughly a basketball. Some condition had arrived that the supercondensed material release it's hold on itself and voila a huge explosion that as far as science can tell is still expanding outwardly.

But let's go back before the bang. There WAS this basketball sized stuff. Who knows how long this form had been in existance?

I have a very difficult time postulating a metaphysical force or being standing apart or infused within this supercondensed universe.

"science tells us the physical universe we live in did in fact have a beginning"

I do not believe that statement is true in the sense that there was NOTHING that became SOMETHING at the moment of the big bang and I don't believe science says that at all.

Religion/s say there is a beginning in the sense you seem to imply. I don't think there was anyone around near the time of Jesus qualified to explain the earliest form of the universe.

The invention of the first telescope, an extremely crude device, wasn't thought up for approximately 1500 years from the time of Jesus.

The printing press was invented in 1439. Knowledge of ANYTHING was extremely rare and difficult to obtain before that. Almost EVERYTHING in existance was explained by various metaphysical forces before that.

"now if you argue instead that the universe is finite it needs to have a beginning and a cause"

But I do not argue any such thing. I ONLY argue that the universe has existed in this expanding form for a very long time, possibly much longer than is accepted by science. How long it existed in the condensed form?? I have no idea.. Before that? a huge black hole that had swallowed up a previous universe?? and so on and so forth back into time infinitely.

The possibility that the universe needs to represent "a cause" is laughable.

Have YOU ever contemplated just how small we are? Pardon me assuming that this "cause" is in relation to "us" and provided by "god" on our behalf.

THAT is a silly concept. I will leave it to others of a much higher degree of hubris and humor than I to expound on this "cause"...

 

[PostmodernProph]

How do you know the universe is not finite?

well, lets put it this way....either the universe is finite or it isn't.....in the post I replied to you proposed a universe that always was and needed no creator......

however, science tells us the physical universe we live in did in fact have a beginning....so, whether you fall on string theory or some other method of traversing from some other universe to ours, it will in fact be a metaphysical explanation......

now if you argue instead that the universe is finite it needs to have a beginning and a cause.....can you postulate a beginning or a transition that resulted in our current universe that does NOT require a metaphysical explanation?......

Sure. That is an easy request.

First let me say that there was no "first". What you insist is the beginning I insist is just a point in time along the way for the stuff which after the big bang expanded into what we call our universe.

As far as I can tell the "big bang" scientists believe that in what YOU call the beginning all of the material needed was in the space of roughly a basketball. Some condition had arrived that the supercondensed material release it's hold on itself and voila a huge explosion that as far as science can tell is still expanding outwardly.

But let's go back before the bang. There WAS this basketball sized stuff. Who knows how long this form had been in existance?

I have a very difficult time postulating a metaphysical force or being standing apart or infused within this supercondensed universe.

"science tells us the physical universe we live in did in fact have a beginning"

I do not believe that statement is true in the sense that there was NOTHING that became SOMETHING at the moment of the big bang and I don't believe science says that at all.

Religion/s say there is a beginning in the sense you seem to imply. I don't think there was anyone around near the time of Jesus qualified to explain the earliest form of the universe.

The invention of the first telescope, an extremely crude device, wasn't thought up for approximately 1500 years from the time of Jesus.

The printing press was invented in 1439. Knowledge of ANYTHING was extremely rare and difficult to obtain before that. Almost EVERYTHING in existance was explained by various metaphysical forces before that.

"now if you argue instead that the universe is finite it needs to have a beginning and a cause"

But I do not argue any such thing. I ONLY argue that the universe has existed in this expanding form for a very long time, possibly much longer than is accepted by science. How long it existed in the condensed form?? I have no idea.. Before that? a huge black hole that had swallowed up a previous universe?? and so on and so forth back into time infinitely.

The possibility that the universe needs to represent "a cause" is laughable.

Have YOU ever contemplated just how small we are? Pardon me assuming that this "cause" is in relation to "us" and provided by "god" on our behalf.

THAT is a silly concept. I will leave it to others of a much higher degree of hubris and humor than I to expound on this "cause"...

sorry dude, but once you say "before the Big Bang" you enter the realm outside of our universe.....that IS the metaphysical....

you say there was a basketball sized "something" that became our universe.....obviously then that "something" was outside our universe and was turned into our universe.....now you can have your pet nonscientific beliefs regarding what that something was and what caused it to become our universe........and I can have mine.....but don't pretend mine is any sillier than yours....