How do you explain a ordered universe without a Creator?

[Divine Wind]

Simple question, really. Why do so many people have a problem with it? Think about it. Order cannot come from chaos. At least not in this universe. Every bit of scientific knowledge we possess says it just can't happen. The universe is extremely ordered. It also contains vast amounts of information. Information has one source. Intelligence. Earthly intelligence is also the result of information. Can you say catch 22? This proves that information has a source that is outside this universe. What is this source? I believe that it is God. Can you come up with any other explanation?

Agreed on an almighty, encompassing force behind the creation of the Universe. This isn't the same as agreeing upon a long-bearded old man sitting on a golden throne who declares we can't eat shrimp and must execute homosexuals.

 

[aris2chat]

god is to scare and control man.

Order has to do with the laws of science, not some fabricated god or gods.

Same laws apply to all mankind, before the gods, in every culture and not of any biblical god. They applied before mankind and will apply long after man is gone. Same laws apply across the galaxy, not just here on earth or een this solar system.

 

[Divine Wind]

god is to scare and control man.

Order has to do with the laws of science, not some fabricated god or gods.

Same laws apply to all mankind, before the gods, in every culture and not of any biblical god. They applied before mankind and will apply long after man is gone. Same laws apply across the galaxy, not just here on earth or een this solar system.

Disagreed. God is God. Mankind has the freedom to use any idea, even the idea of God, for selfish ends.

Don't fear God, fear your fellow man.

Agreed on the laws of science. Rules is rules.

 

[Mudda]

god is to scare and control man.

Order has to do with the laws of science, not some fabricated god or gods.

Same laws apply to all mankind, before the gods, in every culture and not of any biblical god. They applied before mankind and will apply long after man is gone. Same laws apply across the galaxy, not just here on earth or een this solar system.

Disagreed. God is God. Mankind has the freedom to use any idea, even the idea of God, for selfish ends.

Don't fear God, fear your fellow man.

Agreed on the laws of science. Rules is rules.

So if god exists, why does he make deformed and/or retarded babies? Is that one of his rules?

 

[amrchaos]

Simple question, really. Why do so many people have a problem with it? Think about it. Order cannot come from chaos. At least not in this universe. Every bit of scientific knowledge we possess says it just can't happen. The universe is extremely ordered. It also contains vast amounts of information. Information has one source. Intelligence. Earthly intelligence is also the result of information. Can you say catch 22? This proves that information has a source that is outside this universe. What is this source? I believe that it is God. Can you come up with any other explanation?

Funny thing, I was thinking along a different set of lines and came up with this question

How can we determine if reality is 'ordered'?
I know what you are about to say, but the truth is you are talking about your local area of reality! That may not reflect all of reality!!

Is not mathematics incredible. A little topology and BLAMMO, even the simplest claims in a question is up for scrutiny!

 

[Skull Pilot]

Simple question, really. Why do so many people have a problem with it? Think about it. Order cannot come from chaos. At least not in this universe. Every bit of scientific knowledge we possess says it just can't happen. The universe is extremely ordered. It also contains vast amounts of information. Information has one source. Intelligence. Earthly intelligence is also the result of information. Can you say catch 22? This proves that information has a source that is outside this universe. What is this source? I believe that it is God. Can you come up with any other explanation?

Who ever said the universe was ordered?

It's a pretty chaotic place

 

[gipper]

How do you explain a ordered universe without a Creator?

You can't.

 

[Divine Wind]

Who ever said the universe was ordered?

It's a pretty chaotic place

Yet it follows rules. Ergo, not chaotic, but ordered. Just because we don't understand all the rules or can't comprehend the entire pattern doesn't mean they aren't there.

 

[Divine Wind]

So if god exists, why does he make deformed and/or retarded babies? Is that one of his rules?

God didn't make deformed/or retarded babies nor did God cause the Haitian earthquake or the great tsunami of 2004. Despite those who believe it so, God clearly isn't a personal God who reaches down to help some and harm others. God created the Universe and is letting it play out according to established rules.

 

[Mudda]

God didn't make deformed/or retarded babies nor did God cause the Haitian earthquake or the great tsunami of 2004. Despite those who believe it so, God clearly isn't a personal God who reaches down to help some and harm others. God created the Universe and is letting it play out according to established rules.

So praying is bullshit because god doesn't give a crap about us?

 

[Mudda]

How do you explain a ordered universe without a Creator?

You can't.

So how do you explain the Creator without a Creator of the Creator?

 

[Divine Wind]

God didn't make deformed/or retarded babies nor did God cause the Haitian earthquake or the great tsunami of 2004. Despite those who believe it so, God clearly isn't a personal God who reaches down to help some and harm others. God created the Universe and is letting it play out according to established rules.

So praying is bullshit because god doesn't give a crap about us?

Prayer, like meditation, has a calming effect. IMHO, it doesn't make sense for God to create a Universe with clearly defined limits and rules then, effectively, cheat the game by violating those rules simply for the asking.

We're all part of the Universe and, therefore, part of God. What happens in our short mortal lifetimes is irrelevant when compared to eternal existence.

One of the biggest mysteries is the answer to the question "Why are we here?" If that question is ever answered, then we can move beyond faith to certainty.

 

[Divine Wind]

So how do you explain the Creator without a Creator of the Creator?

No need. If the Oscillating Universe had been proved true, there'd be no need to have a creator since the Universe would be created and destroyed in an endless cycle. However, since the Universe has been proven to have a definite beginning and a clear end as "the Big Chill", it begs the question of origin.
The Big Crunch, the Big Freeze and the Big Rip - The Big Bang and the Big Crunch - The Physics of the Universe

While I'm sure you'd have easily accepted an Oscillating Universe, it's confusing that you can't accepted the idea of an endless force behind the creation of this Universe and, possibly, an infinite number of others.

 

[Mudda]

God didn't make deformed/or retarded babies nor did God cause the Haitian earthquake or the great tsunami of 2004. Despite those who believe it so, God clearly isn't a personal God who reaches down to help some and harm others. God created the Universe and is letting it play out according to established rules.

So praying is bullshit because god doesn't give a crap about us?

Prayer, like meditation, has a calming effect. IMHO, it doesn't make sense for God to create a Universe with clearly defined limits and rules then, effectively, cheat the game by violating those rules simply for the asking.

We're all part of the Universe and, therefore, part of God. What happens in our short mortal lifetimes is irrelevant when compared to eternal existence.

One of the biggest mysteries is the answer to the question "Why are we here?" If that question is ever answered, then we can move beyond faith to certainty.

I'm here to have a good time. That's for certain.

 

[Mudda]

So how do you explain the Creator without a Creator of the Creator?

No need. If the Oscillating Universe had been proved true, there'd be no need to have a creator since the Universe would be created and destroyed in an endless cycle. However, since the Universe has been proven to have a definite beginning and a clear end as "the Big Chill", it begs the question of origin.
The Big Crunch, the Big Freeze and the Big Rip - The Big Bang and the Big Crunch - The Physics of the Universe

While I'm sure you'd have easily accepted an Oscillating Universe, it's confusing that you can't accepted the idea of an endless force behind the creation of this Universe and, possibly, an infinite number of others.

The universe is not proven to end in a Big Chill, as you call it. That's simply speculation.

 

[edthecynic]

The universe is extremely ordered.

Hogwash!
The universe is extremely DISORDERED!!!
Everything is crashing into something else.

Spiral Galaxies in Collision

 

[edthecynic]

If they were off by just a little bit, life would not exist.

No, life would be different. Life is quite tenacious. There are bacteria that eat rock for food!

 

[Divine Wind]

I'm here to have a good time. That's for certain.

As you should.



Are there limits to your fun such as willingness to have a good time at the expense of or harm to others?

 

[edthecynic]

If the universe was not orderly, then science would not exist. The scientific method relies on repeatable experiments. Without a ordered universe, this would not be possible.

More hogwash.

 

[HUGGY]

Simple question, really. Why do so many people have a problem with it? Think about it. Order cannot come from chaos. At least not in this universe. Every bit of scientific knowledge we possess says it just can't happen. The universe is extremely ordered. It also contains vast amounts of information. Information has one source. Intelligence. Earthly intelligence is also the result of information. Can you say catch 22? This proves that information has a source that is outside this universe. What is this source? I believe that it is God. Can you come up with any other explanation?

I would like to just rip you a new a-hole and call you ten kinds of a moron but I won't. I will settle your hash respectfully and clearly so even someone with a childlike mind can comprehend it.

The universe as we see it "now" appears ordered and "created" or "designed". The key word is "now". When you take a thousand coins and toss them on a table some will bounce and some will spin and maybe one or two will roll on their edges and come to a stop. When they all stop moving after a few seconds you may think you see a pattern in how they lay on the top of the table and those on the floor. You may even believe that the way the coins are laying resembles the face of Jesus or Elvis. Our Universe has had many, many billions of years to have had 99.9 % of all the collisions it will ever have going forward. What is left in our universe is like the one or two coins on the table standing on their edges. A MIRACLE! No..not a miracle just the laws of probability.

Right after the big bang there was chaos. Everything was colliding with everything and eventually there was some space between the particles and then the gravity kicks in as the particles grow into chunks and then they start attracting more debris until they become very large and the mass starts getting hot ..then atomic fusion and voila..stars.that have enough density to keep stuff in orbit and the stuff starts condensing into planets with their own gravity and voila...moons and so on and so forth. These encounters of the "stuff" is so common that the whole universe ends up looking like our solar system.

What you are neglecting to understand is the TIME it has taken to get to where the universe is. If you believe that a god just "placed" all the stars and planets and moons in the positions they now are in, where was your god one million years after the Big Bang when shit was still flying all over the place and there were few if any organized orbits of ANYTHING? All that is left standing is all that is left standing..or orbiting. Get it? Got it? Good.