How Long Will the AntiChrist Be Sitting in Your Temple?

[ding]

Amazing how people get this wrong.

II Thessalonians 2:

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth (present tense) himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God (present tense), shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth (present tense) that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth (present tense) will let, until he be taken out of the way.

"AND NOW there are MANY ANTICHRISTS" - I John 2:18
Over 7 billion of them.

Why is the bible so negative? Is god's message supposed to be so negative?

Because you see it as negative -
To the pure all things are pure, to those corrupt, all things are corrupt.

God drowning the world because he couldn’t make it right the first time isn’t negative?

Never happened.. Its a morality tale about redemption... borrowed from Sumer.

Ya, but I’m asking why the bible is so negative.

I think to instill fear and for the sake of drama..

The Jews certainly didn't see it that way.

07 Judaism

www.musicbysunset.com

 

[ding]

Amazing how people get this wrong.

II Thessalonians 2:

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth (present tense) himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God (present tense), shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth (present tense) that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth (present tense) will let, until he be taken out of the way.

"AND NOW there are MANY ANTICHRISTS" - I John 2:18
Over 7 billion of them.

Why is the bible so negative? Is god's message supposed to be so negative?

Lots of people have a hard time reconciling the OT with the NT.

"They struggle with the scriptures unto their own destruction" -
II Peter 3:16

Because they have no spiritual understanding from the Holy Spirit -
They operate from the Unholy Spirit.

Yeah, no. There is no unholy spirit.

No one is all good or all bad.

 

[surada]

Amazing how people get this wrong.

II Thessalonians 2:

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth (present tense) himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God (present tense), shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth (present tense) that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth (present tense) will let, until he be taken out of the way.

"AND NOW there are MANY ANTICHRISTS" - I John 2:18
Over 7 billion of them.

Why is the bible so negative? Is god's message supposed to be so negative?

Because you see it as negative -
To the pure all things are pure, to those corrupt, all things are corrupt.

God drowning the world because he couldn’t make it right the first time isn’t negative?

Never happened.. Its a morality tale about redemption... borrowed from Sumer.

Ya, but I’m asking why the bible is so negative.

I think to instill fear and for the sake of drama..

The Jews certainly didn't see it that way.

07 Judaism

www.musicbysunset.com

Good website, but the Jews were not monotheistic from the beginning.. 4,000 clay icons of Asherah have been found in Jerusalem.

 

[ding]

Amazing how people get this wrong.

II Thessalonians 2:

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth (present tense) himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God (present tense), shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth (present tense) that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth (present tense) will let, until he be taken out of the way.

"AND NOW there are MANY ANTICHRISTS" - I John 2:18
Over 7 billion of them.

Why is the bible so negative? Is god's message supposed to be so negative?

Because you see it as negative -
To the pure all things are pure, to those corrupt, all things are corrupt.

God drowning the world because he couldn’t make it right the first time isn’t negative?

Never happened.. Its a morality tale about redemption... borrowed from Sumer.

Ya, but I’m asking why the bible is so negative.

I think to instill fear and for the sake of drama..

The Jews certainly didn't see it that way.

07 Judaism

www.musicbysunset.com

Good website, but the Jews were not monotheistic from the beginning.. 4,000 clay icons of Asherah have been found in Jerusalem.

You are a hammer looking for a nail.

 

[surada]

Amazing how people get this wrong.

II Thessalonians 2:

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth (present tense) himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God (present tense), shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth (present tense) that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth (present tense) will let, until he be taken out of the way.

"AND NOW there are MANY ANTICHRISTS" - I John 2:18
Over 7 billion of them.

Why is the bible so negative? Is god's message supposed to be so negative?

Because you see it as negative -
To the pure all things are pure, to those corrupt, all things are corrupt.

God drowning the world because he couldn’t make it right the first time isn’t negative?

Never happened.. Its a morality tale about redemption... borrowed from Sumer.

Ya, but I’m asking why the bible is so negative.

I think to instill fear and for the sake of drama..

The Jews certainly didn't see it that way.

07 Judaism

www.musicbysunset.com

Good website, but the Jews were not monotheistic from the beginning.. 4,000 clay icons of Asherah have been found in Jerusalem.

You are a hammer looking for a nail.

Throughout the history of Israel they are scolded for following false gods.

 

[Infallible Arbiter]

Amazing how people get this wrong.

II Thessalonians 2:

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth (present tense) himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God (present tense), shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth (present tense) that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth (present tense) will let, until he be taken out of the way.

"AND NOW there are MANY ANTICHRISTS" - I John 2:18
Over 7 billion of them.

Why is the bible so negative? Is god's message supposed to be so negative?

Because you see it as negative -
To the pure all things are pure, to those corrupt, all things are corrupt.

God drowning the world because he couldn’t make it right the first time isn’t negative?

Never happened.. Its a morality tale about redemption... borrowed from Sumer.

Ya, but I’m asking why the bible is so negative.

I think to instill fear and for the sake of drama..

The Jews certainly didn't see it that way.

07 Judaism

www.musicbysunset.com

Good website, but the Jews were not monotheistic from the beginning.. 4,000 clay icons of Asherah have been found in Jerusalem.

You are a hammer looking for a nail.

You're avoiding how long the Antichrist will be sitting in your temple

 

[Taz]

Amazing how people get this wrong.

II Thessalonians 2:

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth (present tense) himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God (present tense), shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth (present tense) that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth (present tense) will let, until he be taken out of the way.

"AND NOW there are MANY ANTICHRISTS" - I John 2:18
Over 7 billion of them.

Why is the bible so negative? Is god's message supposed to be so negative?

Lots of people have a hard time reconciling the OT with the NT.

"They struggle with the scriptures unto their own destruction" -
II Peter 3:16

Because they have no spiritual understanding from the Holy Spirit -
They operate from the Unholy Spirit.

So why doesn’t god enlighten me and everyone else?

How do you know He hasn't?

Because I still see no proof of god.

 

[Taz]

Amazing how people get this wrong.

II Thessalonians 2:

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth (present tense) himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God (present tense), shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth (present tense) that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth (present tense) will let, until he be taken out of the way.

"AND NOW there are MANY ANTICHRISTS" - I John 2:18
Over 7 billion of them.

Why is the bible so negative? Is god's message supposed to be so negative?

Because you see it as negative -
To the pure all things are pure, to those corrupt, all things are corrupt.

God drowning the world because he couldn’t make it right the first time isn’t negative?

Never happened.. Its a morality tale about redemption... borrowed from Sumer.

Ya, but I’m asking why the bible is so negative.

I think to instill fear and for the sake of drama..

The Jews certainly didn't see it that way.

07 Judaism

www.musicbysunset.com

Good website, but the Jews were not monotheistic from the beginning.. 4,000 clay icons of Asherah have been found in Jerusalem.

You are a hammer looking for a nail.

You're avoiding how long the Antichrist will be sitting in your temple

Why doesn't god kill the Antichrist? Is he a weakling?

 

[surada]

Amazing how people get this wrong.

II Thessalonians 2:

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth (present tense) himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God (present tense), shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth (present tense) that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth (present tense) will let, until he be taken out of the way.

"AND NOW there are MANY ANTICHRISTS" - I John 2:18
Over 7 billion of them.

Why is the bible so negative? Is god's message supposed to be so negative?

Because you see it as negative -
To the pure all things are pure, to those corrupt, all things are corrupt.

God drowning the world because he couldn’t make it right the first time isn’t negative?

Never happened.. Its a morality tale about redemption... borrowed from Sumer.

Ya, but I’m asking why the bible is so negative.

I think to instill fear and for the sake of drama..

The Jews certainly didn't see it that way.

07 Judaism

www.musicbysunset.com

Good website, but the Jews were not monotheistic from the beginning.. 4,000 clay icons of Asherah have been found in Jerusalem.

You are a hammer looking for a nail.

You're avoiding how long the Antichrist will be sitting in your temple

Why doesn't god kill the Antichrist? Is he a weakling?

Great question.

 

[surada]

Amazing how people get this wrong.

II Thessalonians 2:

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth (present tense) himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God (present tense), shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth (present tense) that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth (present tense) will let, until he be taken out of the way.

"AND NOW there are MANY ANTICHRISTS" - I John 2:18
Over 7 billion of them.

Why is the bible so negative? Is god's message supposed to be so negative?

Because you see it as negative -
To the pure all things are pure, to those corrupt, all things are corrupt.

God drowning the world because he couldn’t make it right the first time isn’t negative?

Never happened.. Its a morality tale about redemption... borrowed from Sumer.

Ya, but I’m asking why the bible is so negative.

I think to instill fear and for the sake of drama..

The Jews certainly didn't see it that way.

07 Judaism

www.musicbysunset.com

Good website, but the Jews were not monotheistic from the beginning.. 4,000 clay icons of Asherah have been found in Jerusalem.

You are a hammer looking for a nail.

You're avoiding how long the Antichrist will be sitting in your temple

Just until 70 AD.

 

[norwegen]

General Titus was the man of perdition.

Wow... well THAT'S a relief! We don't need to worry about another world leader who will shepherd us all into a global conflagration. I hadn't heard that human nature changed since Titus' time.

Accurate prophecy was written after the fact. Jesus references Antiochus IV when he says that when his people see the Abomination of Desolation AGAIN , they must flee Jerusalem to avoid the tribulation. They did.. They fled to Pella.

Scripture doesn't say that Jesus referenced Antiochus. Jesus told his disciples, circa 30 AD, that they would see the abomination of desolation that Daniel prophesied (Mt 24:15). That is, according to Jesus, Daniel prophesied an event that was still in the apostles' future.

I'm not aware of an exodus of Christ's followers from Jerusalem in Antiochus' time.

The Abomination of Desolation was during Antiochus IV's rule.. The Book of Daniel was written around 168-164 BC.

Matthew 24:16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the ...

Matthew 24:16 - The Abomination of Desolation

then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

biblehub.com

The Christians, bearing Christ's warning in mind, and having, as we may conjecture, seen the predicted sign, took the opportunity of flight from the doomed city, and made their escape to Pella, a town of Decapotis, southeast of Bethshean, and the ruins of which are known now by the name of Fahil.

That's irrelevant. Antiochus was history for Jesus and his disciples. Jesus was warning them of a future event.

Christ's followers didn't flee to Pella in the past, before Christ; they fled to Pella in their future, when Jerusalem burned down.

I'm not doing well with this.

Matthew 24:15 So when you see standing in the holy place ...

Matthew 24:15 - The Abomination of Desolation

So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination of desolation,' described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),

biblehub.com

So when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Luke 21:20 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that her desolation is near.

Mountains · 15 Greek Text Analysis · Matthew 24 KJV · 15 Interlinear · Understand · Unclean
Mark 13:14 So when you see the abomination of desolation ...

Mark 13:14 - The Abomination of Desolation

So when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

biblehub.com

The "abomination of desolation" is a Hebrew idiom, meaning "the abomination that maketh desolate." St. Luke (Luke 21:20) does not use the expression; it would have sounded strange to his Gentile readers. He says, "When ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand."

Obviously, Jerusalem and the temple system did not become desolate with Antiochus, as it continued to go on. They became desolate with Rome. Temple culture burned to the ground with Rome.

The age ended in AD 70, with Rome.

I agree that the age ended in 70AD.. but, I think you should read up on Antiochus. He was hell bent to Hellenize the Jews.

The Maccabean Revolt It was in Jerusalem where he first encountered the priestly Maccabees led by Judas Maccabeus who was disgusted by what Antiochus was doing to Israel. He felt enough was enough and he led a revolt against Antiochus, but the Maccabees weren’t very successful at first.
What Hanukkah and the Maccabean Revolt Have to Do with Jesus
www.steppesoffaith.com/apologetics/hanukkah-maccabean-revolt-jesus

Yea, that's kind of interesting. The holy people certainly enjoyed life under Hasmonean rule.

But that was all before Christ, and, according to Jesus (and history), not the object of Daniel's prophecy.

Jesus is referencing Daniel's prophecy.. When they see the Abomination of Desolation AGAIN they are to flee from Jerusalem to the mountains.

Yes, Jesus referenced Daniel's prophecy, but applies it to his own generation's future. Read the verse:

So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.​

(Mt 24:15-16)

He didn't say that the abomination of desolation would be a repeat occurrence (not in Mark, either).

I'm not arguing with the date of Daniel's composition, but was there an abomination of desolation around that time?

Foreign powers had sacked the holy city five times before, according to Josephus, but the Roman siege of Jerusalem was only the second time of the city’s complete and utter desolation. Only Babylon had decimated it like this before (Wars 6.10.1), and the Revelator employs a hyperbolic language similar to that of the prophets under the Babylonian conquest to describe it.

But one glaring difference separates God’s judgment on the kingdom of Israel using Babylon and His judgment on it using Rome: after Rome, the temple was gone. After Rome, God had handed down His final judgment on this lineage and its culture of corruption. That entire age and system went up in smoke. No longer did the fallen people need to grope in the darkness for some semblance of a connection to God; to do so was futile because now they had no relationship with Him at all by that means since they lost their Most Holy Place. Any relationship with God was now solely the province and privilege of the new nation of God, the citizenry of which was the Christians.

Utter desolation befell that old covenant, and as far as I know, the Bible refers to only one such occurrence. Certainly history also refers to only one such occurrence.

 

[surada]

General Titus was the man of perdition.

Wow... well THAT'S a relief! We don't need to worry about another world leader who will shepherd us all into a global conflagration. I hadn't heard that human nature changed since Titus' time.

Accurate prophecy was written after the fact. Jesus references Antiochus IV when he says that when his people see the Abomination of Desolation AGAIN , they must flee Jerusalem to avoid the tribulation. They did.. They fled to Pella.

Scripture doesn't say that Jesus referenced Antiochus. Jesus told his disciples, circa 30 AD, that they would see the abomination of desolation that Daniel prophesied (Mt 24:15). That is, according to Jesus, Daniel prophesied an event that was still in the apostles' future.

I'm not aware of an exodus of Christ's followers from Jerusalem in Antiochus' time.

The Abomination of Desolation was during Antiochus IV's rule.. The Book of Daniel was written around 168-164 BC.

Matthew 24:16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the ...

Matthew 24:16 - The Abomination of Desolation

then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

biblehub.com

The Christians, bearing Christ's warning in mind, and having, as we may conjecture, seen the predicted sign, took the opportunity of flight from the doomed city, and made their escape to Pella, a town of Decapotis, southeast of Bethshean, and the ruins of which are known now by the name of Fahil.

That's irrelevant. Antiochus was history for Jesus and his disciples. Jesus was warning them of a future event.

Christ's followers didn't flee to Pella in the past, before Christ; they fled to Pella in their future, when Jerusalem burned down.

I'm not doing well with this.

Matthew 24:15 So when you see standing in the holy place ...

Matthew 24:15 - The Abomination of Desolation

So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination of desolation,' described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),

biblehub.com

So when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Luke 21:20 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that her desolation is near.

Mountains · 15 Greek Text Analysis · Matthew 24 KJV · 15 Interlinear · Understand · Unclean
Mark 13:14 So when you see the abomination of desolation ...

Mark 13:14 - The Abomination of Desolation

So when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

biblehub.com

The "abomination of desolation" is a Hebrew idiom, meaning "the abomination that maketh desolate." St. Luke (Luke 21:20) does not use the expression; it would have sounded strange to his Gentile readers. He says, "When ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand."

Obviously, Jerusalem and the temple system did not become desolate with Antiochus, as it continued to go on. They became desolate with Rome. Temple culture burned to the ground with Rome.

The age ended in AD 70, with Rome.

I agree that the age ended in 70AD.. but, I think you should read up on Antiochus. He was hell bent to Hellenize the Jews.

The Maccabean Revolt It was in Jerusalem where he first encountered the priestly Maccabees led by Judas Maccabeus who was disgusted by what Antiochus was doing to Israel. He felt enough was enough and he led a revolt against Antiochus, but the Maccabees weren’t very successful at first.
What Hanukkah and the Maccabean Revolt Have to Do with Jesus
www.steppesoffaith.com/apologetics/hanukkah-maccabean-revolt-jesus

Yea, that's kind of interesting. The holy people certainly enjoyed life under Hasmonean rule.

But that was all before Christ, and, according to Jesus (and history), not the object of Daniel's prophecy.

Jesus is referencing Daniel's prophecy.. When they see the Abomination of Desolation AGAIN they are to flee from Jerusalem to the mountains.

Yes, Jesus referenced Daniel's prophecy, but applies it to his own generation's future. Read the verse:

So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.​

(Mt 24:15-16)

He didn't say that the abomination of desolation would be a repeat occurrence (not in Mark, either).

I'm not arguing with the date of Daniel's composition, but was there an abomination of desolation around that time?

Foreign powers had sacked the holy city five times before, according to Josephus, but the Roman siege of Jerusalem was only the second time of the city’s complete and utter desolation. Only Babylon had decimated it like this before (Wars 6.10.1), and the Revelator employs a hyperbolic language similar to that of the prophets under the Babylonian conquest to describe it.

But one glaring difference separates God’s judgment on the kingdom of Israel using Babylon and His judgment on it using Rome: after Rome, the temple was gone. After Rome, God had handed down His final judgment on this lineage and its culture of corruption. That entire age and system went up in smoke. No longer did the fallen people need to grope in the darkness for some semblance of a connection to God; to do so was futile because now they had no relationship with Him at all by that means since they lost their Most Holy Place. Any relationship with God was now solely the province and privilege of the new nation of God, the citizenry of which were the Christians.

Utter desolation befell that old covenant, and as far as I know, the Bible refers to only one such occurrence. Certainly history also refers to only one such occurrence.

Yes there was an Abomination of Desolation by Antiochus IV.. That's the whole point.

Antiochus defiled the Temple by sacrificing pigs and putting up a statue of Zeus, he forbid circumscision and many other indignities.. That's the reason for the Maccabben Revolt.

 

[norwegen]

General Titus was the man of perdition.

Wow... well THAT'S a relief! We don't need to worry about another world leader who will shepherd us all into a global conflagration. I hadn't heard that human nature changed since Titus' time.

Accurate prophecy was written after the fact. Jesus references Antiochus IV when he says that when his people see the Abomination of Desolation AGAIN , they must flee Jerusalem to avoid the tribulation. They did.. They fled to Pella.

Scripture doesn't say that Jesus referenced Antiochus. Jesus told his disciples, circa 30 AD, that they would see the abomination of desolation that Daniel prophesied (Mt 24:15). That is, according to Jesus, Daniel prophesied an event that was still in the apostles' future.

I'm not aware of an exodus of Christ's followers from Jerusalem in Antiochus' time.

The Abomination of Desolation was during Antiochus IV's rule.. The Book of Daniel was written around 168-164 BC.

Matthew 24:16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the ...

Matthew 24:16 - The Abomination of Desolation

then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

biblehub.com

The Christians, bearing Christ's warning in mind, and having, as we may conjecture, seen the predicted sign, took the opportunity of flight from the doomed city, and made their escape to Pella, a town of Decapotis, southeast of Bethshean, and the ruins of which are known now by the name of Fahil.

That's irrelevant. Antiochus was history for Jesus and his disciples. Jesus was warning them of a future event.

Christ's followers didn't flee to Pella in the past, before Christ; they fled to Pella in their future, when Jerusalem burned down.

I'm not doing well with this.

Matthew 24:15 So when you see standing in the holy place ...

Matthew 24:15 - The Abomination of Desolation

So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination of desolation,' described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),

biblehub.com

So when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Luke 21:20 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that her desolation is near.

Mountains · 15 Greek Text Analysis · Matthew 24 KJV · 15 Interlinear · Understand · Unclean
Mark 13:14 So when you see the abomination of desolation ...

Mark 13:14 - The Abomination of Desolation

So when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

biblehub.com

The "abomination of desolation" is a Hebrew idiom, meaning "the abomination that maketh desolate." St. Luke (Luke 21:20) does not use the expression; it would have sounded strange to his Gentile readers. He says, "When ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand."

Obviously, Jerusalem and the temple system did not become desolate with Antiochus, as it continued to go on. They became desolate with Rome. Temple culture burned to the ground with Rome.

The age ended in AD 70, with Rome.

I agree that the age ended in 70AD.. but, I think you should read up on Antiochus. He was hell bent to Hellenize the Jews.

The Maccabean Revolt It was in Jerusalem where he first encountered the priestly Maccabees led by Judas Maccabeus who was disgusted by what Antiochus was doing to Israel. He felt enough was enough and he led a revolt against Antiochus, but the Maccabees weren’t very successful at first.
What Hanukkah and the Maccabean Revolt Have to Do with Jesus
www.steppesoffaith.com/apologetics/hanukkah-maccabean-revolt-jesus

Yea, that's kind of interesting. The holy people certainly enjoyed life under Hasmonean rule.

But that was all before Christ, and, according to Jesus (and history), not the object of Daniel's prophecy.

Jesus is referencing Daniel's prophecy.. When they see the Abomination of Desolation AGAIN they are to flee from Jerusalem to the mountains.

Yes, Jesus referenced Daniel's prophecy, but applies it to his own generation's future. Read the verse:

So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.​

(Mt 24:15-16)

He didn't say that the abomination of desolation would be a repeat occurrence (not in Mark, either).

I'm not arguing with the date of Daniel's composition, but was there an abomination of desolation around that time?

Foreign powers had sacked the holy city five times before, according to Josephus, but the Roman siege of Jerusalem was only the second time of the city’s complete and utter desolation. Only Babylon had decimated it like this before (Wars 6.10.1), and the Revelator employs a hyperbolic language similar to that of the prophets under the Babylonian conquest to describe it.

But one glaring difference separates God’s judgment on the kingdom of Israel using Babylon and His judgment on it using Rome: after Rome, the temple was gone. After Rome, God had handed down His final judgment on this lineage and its culture of corruption. That entire age and system went up in smoke. No longer did the fallen people need to grope in the darkness for some semblance of a connection to God; to do so was futile because now they had no relationship with Him at all by that means since they lost their Most Holy Place. Any relationship with God was now solely the province and privilege of the new nation of God, the citizenry of which were the Christians.

Utter desolation befell that old covenant, and as far as I know, the Bible refers to only one such occurrence. Certainly history also refers to only one such occurrence.

Yes there was an Abomination of Desolation by Antiochus IV.. That's the whole point.

Antiochus defiled the Temple by sacrificing pigs and putting up a statue of Zeus, he forbid circumscision and many other indignities.. That's the reason for the Maccabben Revolt.

Daniel referred to an abomination of desolation in Antiochus' time? Maybe so.

Jesus also referenced a vision of Daniel's that applied to his own future, though. The plain language of Matthew's gospel should make that clear.

With Christ the transgression of the holy people ended; he atoned for their iniquity and inaugurated an everlasting righteousness (Dn 9:24). And the new most holy place would no longer be a 20-cubit cubed space in a brick-and-mortar temple but would be a new "foursquare" city that covered the earth (measured as they perceived it then) (Rv 21:15-17). I'm not aware of these kinds of things happening in Antiochus' time. Sacrifices ended with Jesus, not with Antiochus.

 

[surada]

General Titus was the man of perdition.

Wow... well THAT'S a relief! We don't need to worry about another world leader who will shepherd us all into a global conflagration. I hadn't heard that human nature changed since Titus' time.

Accurate prophecy was written after the fact. Jesus references Antiochus IV when he says that when his people see the Abomination of Desolation AGAIN , they must flee Jerusalem to avoid the tribulation. They did.. They fled to Pella.

Scripture doesn't say that Jesus referenced Antiochus. Jesus told his disciples, circa 30 AD, that they would see the abomination of desolation that Daniel prophesied (Mt 24:15). That is, according to Jesus, Daniel prophesied an event that was still in the apostles' future.

I'm not aware of an exodus of Christ's followers from Jerusalem in Antiochus' time.

The Abomination of Desolation was during Antiochus IV's rule.. The Book of Daniel was written around 168-164 BC.

Matthew 24:16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the ...

Matthew 24:16 - The Abomination of Desolation

then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

biblehub.com

The Christians, bearing Christ's warning in mind, and having, as we may conjecture, seen the predicted sign, took the opportunity of flight from the doomed city, and made their escape to Pella, a town of Decapotis, southeast of Bethshean, and the ruins of which are known now by the name of Fahil.

That's irrelevant. Antiochus was history for Jesus and his disciples. Jesus was warning them of a future event.

Christ's followers didn't flee to Pella in the past, before Christ; they fled to Pella in their future, when Jerusalem burned down.

I'm not doing well with this.

Matthew 24:15 So when you see standing in the holy place ...

Matthew 24:15 - The Abomination of Desolation

So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination of desolation,' described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),

biblehub.com

So when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Luke 21:20 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that her desolation is near.

Mountains · 15 Greek Text Analysis · Matthew 24 KJV · 15 Interlinear · Understand · Unclean
Mark 13:14 So when you see the abomination of desolation ...

Mark 13:14 - The Abomination of Desolation

So when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

biblehub.com

The "abomination of desolation" is a Hebrew idiom, meaning "the abomination that maketh desolate." St. Luke (Luke 21:20) does not use the expression; it would have sounded strange to his Gentile readers. He says, "When ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand."

Obviously, Jerusalem and the temple system did not become desolate with Antiochus, as it continued to go on. They became desolate with Rome. Temple culture burned to the ground with Rome.

The age ended in AD 70, with Rome.

I agree that the age ended in 70AD.. but, I think you should read up on Antiochus. He was hell bent to Hellenize the Jews.

The Maccabean Revolt It was in Jerusalem where he first encountered the priestly Maccabees led by Judas Maccabeus who was disgusted by what Antiochus was doing to Israel. He felt enough was enough and he led a revolt against Antiochus, but the Maccabees weren’t very successful at first.
What Hanukkah and the Maccabean Revolt Have to Do with Jesus
www.steppesoffaith.com/apologetics/hanukkah-maccabean-revolt-jesus

Yea, that's kind of interesting. The holy people certainly enjoyed life under Hasmonean rule.

But that was all before Christ, and, according to Jesus (and history), not the object of Daniel's prophecy.

Jesus is referencing Daniel's prophecy.. When they see the Abomination of Desolation AGAIN they are to flee from Jerusalem to the mountains.

Yes, Jesus referenced Daniel's prophecy, but applies it to his own generation's future. Read the verse:

So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.​

(Mt 24:15-16)

He didn't say that the abomination of desolation would be a repeat occurrence (not in Mark, either).

I'm not arguing with the date of Daniel's composition, but was there an abomination of desolation around that time?

Foreign powers had sacked the holy city five times before, according to Josephus, but the Roman siege of Jerusalem was only the second time of the city’s complete and utter desolation. Only Babylon had decimated it like this before (Wars 6.10.1), and the Revelator employs a hyperbolic language similar to that of the prophets under the Babylonian conquest to describe it.

But one glaring difference separates God’s judgment on the kingdom of Israel using Babylon and His judgment on it using Rome: after Rome, the temple was gone. After Rome, God had handed down His final judgment on this lineage and its culture of corruption. That entire age and system went up in smoke. No longer did the fallen people need to grope in the darkness for some semblance of a connection to God; to do so was futile because now they had no relationship with Him at all by that means since they lost their Most Holy Place. Any relationship with God was now solely the province and privilege of the new nation of God, the citizenry of which were the Christians.

Utter desolation befell that old covenant, and as far as I know, the Bible refers to only one such occurrence. Certainly history also refers to only one such occurrence.

Yes there was an Abomination of Desolation by Antiochus IV.. That's the whole point.

Antiochus defiled the Temple by sacrificing pigs and putting up a statue of Zeus, he forbid circumscision and many other indignities.. That's the reason for the Maccabben Revolt.

Daniel referred to an abomination of desolation in Antiochus' time? Maybe so.

Jesus also referenced a vision of Daniel's that applied to his own future, though. The plain language of Matthew's gospel should make that clear.

With Christ the transgression of the holy people ended; he atoned for their iniquity and inaugurated an everlasting righteousness (Dn 9: 24). And the new most holy place would no longer be a 20-cubit cubed space in a brick-and-mortar temple but would be a new "foursquare" city that covered the earth (measured as they perceived it then) (Rv 21:15-17). I'm not aware of these kinds of things happening in Antiochus' time. Sacrifices ended with Jesus, not with Antiochus.

Daniel wrote about Antiochus after the fact. Danel was a Syrian poem from Ras Shamra (Ugarit) about 1500 years earlier. The Jews borrowed the poem as the basis for writing about about Antiochus IV and the Maccabbean Revolt. Danel means El is God.

 

[surada]

General Titus was the man of perdition.

Wow... well THAT'S a relief! We don't need to worry about another world leader who will shepherd us all into a global conflagration. I hadn't heard that human nature changed since Titus' time.

Accurate prophecy was written after the fact. Jesus references Antiochus IV when he says that when his people see the Abomination of Desolation AGAIN , they must flee Jerusalem to avoid the tribulation. They did.. They fled to Pella.

Scripture doesn't say that Jesus referenced Antiochus. Jesus told his disciples, circa 30 AD, that they would see the abomination of desolation that Daniel prophesied (Mt 24:15). That is, according to Jesus, Daniel prophesied an event that was still in the apostles' future.

I'm not aware of an exodus of Christ's followers from Jerusalem in Antiochus' time.

The Abomination of Desolation was during Antiochus IV's rule.. The Book of Daniel was written around 168-164 BC.

Matthew 24:16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the ...

Matthew 24:16 - The Abomination of Desolation

then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

biblehub.com

The Christians, bearing Christ's warning in mind, and having, as we may conjecture, seen the predicted sign, took the opportunity of flight from the doomed city, and made their escape to Pella, a town of Decapotis, southeast of Bethshean, and the ruins of which are known now by the name of Fahil.

That's irrelevant. Antiochus was history for Jesus and his disciples. Jesus was warning them of a future event.

Christ's followers didn't flee to Pella in the past, before Christ; they fled to Pella in their future, when Jerusalem burned down.

I'm not doing well with this.

Matthew 24:15 So when you see standing in the holy place ...

Matthew 24:15 - The Abomination of Desolation

So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination of desolation,' described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),

biblehub.com

So when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Luke 21:20 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that her desolation is near.

Mountains · 15 Greek Text Analysis · Matthew 24 KJV · 15 Interlinear · Understand · Unclean
Mark 13:14 So when you see the abomination of desolation ...

Mark 13:14 - The Abomination of Desolation

So when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

biblehub.com

The "abomination of desolation" is a Hebrew idiom, meaning "the abomination that maketh desolate." St. Luke (Luke 21:20) does not use the expression; it would have sounded strange to his Gentile readers. He says, "When ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand."

Obviously, Jerusalem and the temple system did not become desolate with Antiochus, as it continued to go on. They became desolate with Rome. Temple culture burned to the ground with Rome.

The age ended in AD 70, with Rome.

I agree that the age ended in 70AD.. but, I think you should read up on Antiochus. He was hell bent to Hellenize the Jews.

The Maccabean Revolt It was in Jerusalem where he first encountered the priestly Maccabees led by Judas Maccabeus who was disgusted by what Antiochus was doing to Israel. He felt enough was enough and he led a revolt against Antiochus, but the Maccabees weren’t very successful at first.
What Hanukkah and the Maccabean Revolt Have to Do with Jesus
www.steppesoffaith.com/apologetics/hanukkah-maccabean-revolt-jesus

Yea, that's kind of interesting. The holy people certainly enjoyed life under Hasmonean rule.

But that was all before Christ, and, according to Jesus (and history), not the object of Daniel's prophecy.

Jesus is referencing Daniel's prophecy.. When they see the Abomination of Desolation AGAIN they are to flee from Jerusalem to the mountains.

Yes, Jesus referenced Daniel's prophecy, but applies it to his own generation's future. Read the verse:

So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.​

(Mt 24:15-16)

He didn't say that the abomination of desolation would be a repeat occurrence (not in Mark, either).

I'm not arguing with the date of Daniel's composition, but was there an abomination of desolation around that time?

Foreign powers had sacked the holy city five times before, according to Josephus, but the Roman siege of Jerusalem was only the second time of the city’s complete and utter desolation. Only Babylon had decimated it like this before (Wars 6.10.1), and the Revelator employs a hyperbolic language similar to that of the prophets under the Babylonian conquest to describe it.

But one glaring difference separates God’s judgment on the kingdom of Israel using Babylon and His judgment on it using Rome: after Rome, the temple was gone. After Rome, God had handed down His final judgment on this lineage and its culture of corruption. That entire age and system went up in smoke. No longer did the fallen people need to grope in the darkness for some semblance of a connection to God; to do so was futile because now they had no relationship with Him at all by that means since they lost their Most Holy Place. Any relationship with God was now solely the province and privilege of the new nation of God, the citizenry of which were the Christians.

Utter desolation befell that old covenant, and as far as I know, the Bible refers to only one such occurrence. Certainly history also refers to only one such occurrence.

Yes there was an Abomination of Desolation by Antiochus IV.. That's the whole point.

Antiochus defiled the Temple by sacrificing pigs and putting up a statue of Zeus, he forbid circumscision and many other indignities.. That's the reason for the Maccabben Revolt.

Daniel referred to an abomination of desolation in Antiochus' time? Maybe so.

Jesus also referenced a vision of Daniel's that applied to his own future, though. The plain language of Matthew's gospel should make that clear.

With Christ the transgression of the holy people ended; he atoned for their iniquity and inaugurated an everlasting righteousness (Dn 9: 24). And the new most holy place would no longer be a 20-cubit cubed space in a brick-and-mortar temple but would be a new "foursquare" city that covered the earth (measured as they perceived it then) (Rv 21:15-17). I'm not aware of these kinds of things happening in Antiochus' time. Sacrifices ended with Jesus, not with Antiochus.

"Sacrifices ended with Jesus, not with Antiochus."

Correct.

 

[norwegen]

General Titus was the man of perdition.

Wow... well THAT'S a relief! We don't need to worry about another world leader who will shepherd us all into a global conflagration. I hadn't heard that human nature changed since Titus' time.

Accurate prophecy was written after the fact. Jesus references Antiochus IV when he says that when his people see the Abomination of Desolation AGAIN , they must flee Jerusalem to avoid the tribulation. They did.. They fled to Pella.

Scripture doesn't say that Jesus referenced Antiochus. Jesus told his disciples, circa 30 AD, that they would see the abomination of desolation that Daniel prophesied (Mt 24:15). That is, according to Jesus, Daniel prophesied an event that was still in the apostles' future.

I'm not aware of an exodus of Christ's followers from Jerusalem in Antiochus' time.

The Abomination of Desolation was during Antiochus IV's rule.. The Book of Daniel was written around 168-164 BC.

Matthew 24:16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the ...

Matthew 24:16 - The Abomination of Desolation

then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

biblehub.com

The Christians, bearing Christ's warning in mind, and having, as we may conjecture, seen the predicted sign, took the opportunity of flight from the doomed city, and made their escape to Pella, a town of Decapotis, southeast of Bethshean, and the ruins of which are known now by the name of Fahil.

That's irrelevant. Antiochus was history for Jesus and his disciples. Jesus was warning them of a future event.

Christ's followers didn't flee to Pella in the past, before Christ; they fled to Pella in their future, when Jerusalem burned down.

I'm not doing well with this.

Matthew 24:15 So when you see standing in the holy place ...

Matthew 24:15 - The Abomination of Desolation

So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination of desolation,' described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),

biblehub.com

So when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Luke 21:20 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that her desolation is near.

Mountains · 15 Greek Text Analysis · Matthew 24 KJV · 15 Interlinear · Understand · Unclean
Mark 13:14 So when you see the abomination of desolation ...

Mark 13:14 - The Abomination of Desolation

So when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

biblehub.com

The "abomination of desolation" is a Hebrew idiom, meaning "the abomination that maketh desolate." St. Luke (Luke 21:20) does not use the expression; it would have sounded strange to his Gentile readers. He says, "When ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand."

Obviously, Jerusalem and the temple system did not become desolate with Antiochus, as it continued to go on. They became desolate with Rome. Temple culture burned to the ground with Rome.

The age ended in AD 70, with Rome.

I agree that the age ended in 70AD.. but, I think you should read up on Antiochus. He was hell bent to Hellenize the Jews.

The Maccabean Revolt It was in Jerusalem where he first encountered the priestly Maccabees led by Judas Maccabeus who was disgusted by what Antiochus was doing to Israel. He felt enough was enough and he led a revolt against Antiochus, but the Maccabees weren’t very successful at first.
What Hanukkah and the Maccabean Revolt Have to Do with Jesus
www.steppesoffaith.com/apologetics/hanukkah-maccabean-revolt-jesus

Yea, that's kind of interesting. The holy people certainly enjoyed life under Hasmonean rule.

But that was all before Christ, and, according to Jesus (and history), not the object of Daniel's prophecy.

Jesus is referencing Daniel's prophecy.. When they see the Abomination of Desolation AGAIN they are to flee from Jerusalem to the mountains.

Yes, Jesus referenced Daniel's prophecy, but applies it to his own generation's future. Read the verse:

So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.​

(Mt 24:15-16)

He didn't say that the abomination of desolation would be a repeat occurrence (not in Mark, either).

I'm not arguing with the date of Daniel's composition, but was there an abomination of desolation around that time?

Foreign powers had sacked the holy city five times before, according to Josephus, but the Roman siege of Jerusalem was only the second time of the city’s complete and utter desolation. Only Babylon had decimated it like this before (Wars 6.10.1), and the Revelator employs a hyperbolic language similar to that of the prophets under the Babylonian conquest to describe it.

But one glaring difference separates God’s judgment on the kingdom of Israel using Babylon and His judgment on it using Rome: after Rome, the temple was gone. After Rome, God had handed down His final judgment on this lineage and its culture of corruption. That entire age and system went up in smoke. No longer did the fallen people need to grope in the darkness for some semblance of a connection to God; to do so was futile because now they had no relationship with Him at all by that means since they lost their Most Holy Place. Any relationship with God was now solely the province and privilege of the new nation of God, the citizenry of which were the Christians.

Utter desolation befell that old covenant, and as far as I know, the Bible refers to only one such occurrence. Certainly history also refers to only one such occurrence.

Yes there was an Abomination of Desolation by Antiochus IV.. That's the whole point.

Antiochus defiled the Temple by sacrificing pigs and putting up a statue of Zeus, he forbid circumscision and many other indignities.. That's the reason for the Maccabben Revolt.

Daniel referred to an abomination of desolation in Antiochus' time? Maybe so.

Jesus also referenced a vision of Daniel's that applied to his own future, though. The plain language of Matthew's gospel should make that clear.

With Christ the transgression of the holy people ended; he atoned for their iniquity and inaugurated an everlasting righteousness (Dn 9: 24). And the new most holy place would no longer be a 20-cubit cubed space in a brick-and-mortar temple but would be a new "foursquare" city that covered the earth (measured as they perceived it then) (Rv 21:15-17). I'm not aware of these kinds of things happening in Antiochus' time. Sacrifices ended with Jesus, not with Antiochus.

Daniel wrote about Antiochus after the fact.

Maybe so. It doesn't take away from the stone that crushed the rebellious Jewish kingdom and indeed all the mighty kingdoms of the world, bringing to life Daniel’s interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream (Dn 2:34).

 

[norwegen]

"Sacrifices ended with Jesus, not with Antiochus."

Correct.

And that was a vision of the prophets, including Daniel.

Or not Jesus by name, but of the Messiah with whom all these things would come to pass. Which turned out to be Jesus.

 

[surada]

"Sacrifices ended with Jesus, not with Antiochus."

Correct.

And that was a vision of the prophets, including Daniel.

Daniel didn't write the book of Daniel.

"Sacrifices ended with Jesus, not with Antiochus."

Correct.

And that was a vision of the prophets, including Daniel.

Or not Jesus by name, but of the Messiah with whom all these things would come to pass. Which turned out to be Jesus.

Daniel

Daniel on Early Jewish Writings: a comprehensive sourcebook for ancient Judaism.

earlyjewishwritings.com

Remember, the Good Figs were taken to Babylon.. The Bad figs were left behind. Jeremiah 34.

 

[Infallible Arbiter]

Amazing how people get this wrong.

II Thessalonians 2:

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth (present tense) himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God (present tense), shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth (present tense) that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth (present tense) will let, until he be taken out of the way.

"AND NOW there are MANY ANTICHRISTS" - I John 2:18
Over 7 billion of them.

Why is the bible so negative? Is god's message supposed to be so negative?

Because you see it as negative -
To the pure all things are pure, to those corrupt, all things are corrupt.

God drowning the world because he couldn’t make it right the first time isn’t negative?

Never happened.. Its a morality tale about redemption... borrowed from Sumer.

Ya, but I’m asking why the bible is so negative.

I think to instill fear and for the sake of drama..

The Jews certainly didn't see it that way.

07 Judaism

www.musicbysunset.com

Good website, but the Jews were not monotheistic from the beginning.. 4,000 clay icons of Asherah have been found in Jerusalem.

You are a hammer looking for a nail.

You're avoiding how long the Antichrist will be sitting in your temple

Why doesn't god kill the Antichrist? Is he a weakling?

Your question reveals your ignorance of what the Antichrist is -
No worries, the mass-majority of christian's are duped and doped too -
. .by the Antichrist.

 

[Infallible Arbiter]

Ya think this pic has anything to do with the Abomination of Desolation?