How many people here belive in prophetic visions

[RodISHI]

I am wondering how many believers here believe in prophetic visions?


Have you ever had any that you know of?


Do you know how to tell if they are real?

I have no choice but to believe in them.

I have seen one unfold in my own life.

I haven't a clue what it all means, of course.

But having witnessed a prophetic visionary accurately predicting something very specific which in fact happened, and knowing that that person had absolutely NO REASON to have known beforehand who the person was she was speaking to, I have no choice but to tell you that something truly weird is afoot.

Incidently, I never belied in this kind of crap before, and pay abolutely no attention to those media prophets, Nostradomus and such tripe, even now.

As far as I'm concerned even if there are real prophets, mankind is better off ignoring them, their predictions and so forth.

If magic of some kind exists, avoid it.

Life is already difficult enough just keeping track of what exists in the known universe.

Delving into things that are beyond understanding is, I think, a perilous misadventure.

I agree lot of smoke and mirrors predictions should be ignored.

God is a faith builder for those who seek Him. So in that if you have something that was given to you hang onto that and let Him build from there.

I did a lot of personal soul searching on the vision of Omri and the gold bull, plus reread the Bible over and over again about what went on with the children of Israel when they followed Omri. In watching so many prosperiety pimps out there in the last ten years I believe it was a actual warning.

 

[Sky Dancer]

"When the iron bird flies, and the iron horse run on wheels, the Tibetan people will be scattered like ants across the world, and the Dharma will come to the land of the red faced people.”

(Padma Sambhava, eighth-century founder of the first Tibetan monastry)

Iron horse was another term that refers to trains.

 

[RodISHI]

"When the iron bird flies, and the iron horse run on wheels, the Tibetan people will be scattered like ants across the world, and the Dharma will come to the land of the red faced people.”

(Padma Sambhava, eighth-century founder of the first Tibetan monastry)

Iron horse was another term that refers to trains.

What does "dharma" mean?

 

[Sky Dancer]

"When the iron bird flies, the red-robed people of the East who have lost their land will appear, and the two brothers from across the great ocean will be reunited."

- from the Book of Hopi

 

[Sky Dancer]

More Hopi prophecies:
Hopi Prophecy

 

[ABikerSailor]

Ummmm.......steel was actually discovered in Ethiopia first.

At one time, it was more valuable than gold.

(Saw it on the History Channel).

 

[deaddude]

nope.

I do believe in good chance guesses though

 

[auditor0007]

I can't say that I have ever had one of these visions. However, I have had an out of body experience. Yes, I was sleeping at the time. I thought I was waking up so I could get ready to pick up my kids from school. I went over to the window to look out because some people were out front making a bunch of noise. When I turned around, I saw myself lying in bed sleeping. It scared the crap out of me. The next thing I felt was my body trying to wake up and get out of bed. I could not move. It was as if I had to wait for whatever part of me had left to re-enter before I could get up. After getting up, I went back to the window and saw the same people out front, still making a bunch of noise, that I had just seen while I was supposedly sleeping on my bed.

I have had one other experience in my life that I still cannot explain. I have my own explanation and believe it to be true, but I won't try to convince anyone. My wife died over six years ago from leukemia. About a year after her death, the television began turning itself on. This would happen around lunchtime, when I was the only one home. The odd thing was that it didn't turn to channel 3, which is what it was always set at because that was the channel it needed to be on to access cable. Instead, it would turn to channel 61, which was dead air. This just happened to be the year my wife was born.

Now, my first inclination was that the kids had inadvertantly set the timer on the television, so this was the first thing I checked. It was not set. I checked out every possible reason I could think of as to what might cause this. Now, here was the interesting thing. If I was not home, it did not happen. It only happened on days when I was home. Anyway, I began to get annoyed with this. It had been going on for nearly two months, and I couldn't figure out what the cause was. At that time, I came to the only conclusion that I could; that it was my wife trying to contact me.

Here is the kicker. Once I came to the conclusion that it was actually her, I told her I knew it was her and that it was time to stop it. Once I told her to stop, it never happened again.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Yet another person with a cat as part of their avatar. I have counted 32.

Yeah, but how many of them have sniper kitty? I mean, it's sniper kitty man, how can you not like sniper kitty?

It is pretty pimp.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I am wondering how many believers here believe in prophetic visions?
I am sure lots do but don't understand what a true prophetic vision is.
Have you ever had any that you know of?I have but I choose not to broadcast them because I understand their purpose and it would be irreverent to discuss them

Do you know how to tell if they are real?They are real if they truly bring happiness, enhance the intellect or bring enlightenment into your life. They must benefit you and others and help to build the kingdom of God.

 

[RodISHI]

More Hopi prophecies:
Hopi Prophecy

Interesting I am looking at the link. Yahushua is the spirit of prophecy. I have no doubt that God can move anywhere at any time of His choosing.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Prophetic Dreams are very real. they don't happen to everybody though. It also depends on if you are asking about visions that ACTUALLY come from God and are not hallucinations or smokescreens of the devil. Also if it is a prophetic dream, it will have a purpose and come to a prophet.

I know where they come from. Never been into drugs. Knowing how real the Spirit is, I have questioned at times if the whole flesh thing is some sort of hallucination/nightmare though.

I am not sure people always are allowed to recall visions and dreams. I believe many are hidden and only revealed to serve God's purpose.

I questioned heavily the one I put in the previous post to understand if it was real or was I just being weird. At the time I saw that I had not read the OT for years and years. The name Omri did not ring a bell with me at all. So I went searching in the Bible to see what it was all about.

Here is was I have learned. If it matches up with what is written in the Bible it is of God. In these dreams/visions there is no shadows and everything exudes light there is no darkness.

Joseph Smith, a prophet, and no stranger to dreams and visions gave a formula for testing the spirits in visions. I know this is long but VERY ENLIGHTENING.






Try the Spirits

By Joseph Smith, Jr.

Prophet of the Church, 1830-1844



Recent occurrences that have transpired amongst us render it an imperative duty devolving upon me to say something in relation to the spirits by which men are actuated. It is evident from the apostle's writings that many false spirits existed in their day, and have "gone forth into the world," and that it needed intelligence which God alone could impart to detect false spirits, and to prove what spirits were of God. The world in general have been grossly ignorant in regard to this one thing, and why should they be otherwise. "For no man knows the things of God, but by the spirit of God." The Egyptians were not able to discover the difference between the miracles of Moses and those of the magicians until they came to be tested together; and if Moses had not appeared in their midst they would unquestionably have thought that the miracles of the magicians were performed through the mighty power of God; for they were great miracles that were performed by them: a supernatural agency was developed; and great power manifested.

The witch of Endor is no less singular a personage; clothed with a powerful agency she raised the prophet Samuel from his grave, and he appeared before the astonished king and revealed unto him his future destiny. Who is to tell whether this woman is of God, and a righteous woman? Or whether the power she possessed was of the devil, and her a witch as represented by the bible? It is easy for us to say now; but if we had lived in her day, which of us could have unraveled the mystery?

It would have been equally as difficult for us to tell by what spirit the prophets prophesied, or by what power the apostles spoke, and worked miracles. Who could have told whether the power of Simon, the sorcerer was of God, or of the devil? There always did in every age seem to be a lack of intelligence pertaining to this subject. Spirits of all kinds have been manifested, in every age and almost amongst all people; if we go among the Pagans they have their spirits, the Mahomedans, the Jews, the Christians, the Indians; all have their spirits, all have a supernatural agency; and all contend that their spirits are of God. Who shall solve the mystery? "Try the spirits," says John, but who is to do it? The learned, the eloquent, the philosopher, the sage, the divine, all are ignorant. The Heathens will boast of their Gods, and of the great things that have been unfolded by their oracles. The Mussulman will boast of his Koran and of the divine communications that his progenitors have received, and are receiving. The Jews have had numerous instances both ancient and modern among them of men who have professed to be inspired and sent to bring about great events, and the Christian world has not been slow in making up the number.

"Try the spirits;" but what by? Are we to try them by the creeds of men? What preposterous folly, what sheer ignorance, what madness. Try the motions and actions of an eternal being, (for I contend that all spirits are such,) by a thing that was conceived in ignorance, and brought forth in folly. - a cobweb of yesterday. Angels would hide their faces, and devils would be ashamed and insulted and would say, "Paul we know, and Jesus we know, but who are ye." Let each man or society make a creed and try evil spirits by it and the devil would shake his sides, it is all that he would ask. All that he would desire. Yet many of them do this and hence "many spirits are abroad in the world." One great evil is that men are ignorant of the nature of spirits; their power, laws, government, intelligence &c., and imagine that when there is any thing like power, revelation, or vision manifested that it must be of God: - hence the Methodists, Presbyterians, and others frequently possess a spirit that will cause them to lay down, and during its operation animation is frequently entirely suspended; they consider it to be the power of God, and a glorious manifestation from God, - a manifestation of what? - is there any intelligence communicated? Are the curtains of heaven withdrawn, or the purposes of God developed? Have they seen and conversed with an angel; or have the glories of futurity burst upon their view? No! But their body has been inanimate, the operation of their spirit suspended, and all the intelligence that can be obtained from them when they arise, is a shout of glory, or hallelujah, or some incoherent expression; but they have had "the power." The Shaker will whirl around on his heel impelled by a supernatural agency, or spirit, and think that he is governed by the spirit of God: and the Jumper will jump, and enter into all kinds of extravagancies, a Primitive Methodist will shout under the influence of that spirit, until he will rend the heavens with his cries; while the Quakers, (or Friends) moved as they think by the spirit of God, will sit still and say nothing. Is God the author of all this? If not of all of it, which does he recognize? Surely such a heterogeneous mass of confusion never can enter into the kingdom of Heaven. Every one of these professes to be competent to try his neighbor’s spirit, but no one can try his own, and what is the reason? Because they have not a key to unlock, no rule wherewith to measure, and no criterion whereby they can test it; could any one tell the length, breadth, or height of a building without a rule? Test the quality of metals without a criterion, or point out the movements of the planetary system without a knowledge of astronomy? Certainly not: and if such ignorance as this is manifested about a spirit of this kind who can describe an angel of light, if Satan should appear as one in glory? Who can tell his color, his signs, his appearance, his glory? Or what is the manner of his manifestation? Who can detect the spirit of the French Prophets, with their revelations, and visions, and power, and manifestations? Or who can point out the spirit of the Irvingites with their apostles, and prophets, and visions, and tongues, and interpretations, &c. &c.; or who can drag into day-light and develop the hidden mysteries of the false spirits that so frequently are made manifest among the Latter-Day Saints? We answer that no man can do this without the Priesthood, and having a knowledge of the laws by which spirits are governed; for as, "no man knows the things of God but by the spirit of God," so no man knows the spirit of the devil and his power and influence but by possessing intelligence which is more than human. And having unfolded through the medium of the Priesthood the mysterious operations of his devices: without knowing the angelic form, the sanctified look, and gesture, and the zeal that is frequently manifested by him for the glory of God: - together with the prophetic spirit, the gracious influence, the godly appearance, and the holy garb which is so characteristic of his proceedings, and his mysterious windings. A man must have the discerning of spirits, before he can drag into daylight this hellish influence and unfold it unto the world in all its soul destroying, diabolical, and horrid colors: for nothing is a greater injury to the children of men than to be under the influence of a false spirit, when they think they have the spirit of God. Thousands have felt the influence of its terrible power, and baneful effects: long pilgrimages have been undertaken, penances endure, and pain, misery, and ruin have followed in their train; nations have been convulsed, kingdoms overthrown, provinces laid waste, and blood, carnage, and desolation are the habiliments in which it has been clothed. The Turks, the Hindus, the Jews, the Christians, the Indians, in fact all nations have been deceived, imposed upon and injured through the mischievous effects of false spirits.

As we have noticed before, the great difficulty lays in the ignorance of the nature of spirits, of the laws by which they are governed, and the signs by which they may be known; if it requires the spirit of God, to know the things of God, and the spirit of the devil can only be unmasked through that medium, then it follows as a natural consequence that unless some person, or persons, have a communication or revelation from God, unfolding to them the operation of spirit, they must eternally remain ignorant of these principles: - for I contend that if one man cannot understand these things but by the spirit of God, ten thousand men cannot; it is alike out of the reach of the wisdom of the learned, the tongue of the eloquent, and the power of the mighty. And we shall at last have to come to this conclusion, whatever we may think of revelation, that without it we can neither know, nor understand any thing of God, or the devil; and however unwilling the world may be to acknowledge this principle, it is evident from the multifarious creeds and notions concerning this matter, that they understand nothing of this principle, and it is equally as plain that without a divine communication they must remain in ignorance. The world always mistook false prophets for true ones, and those that were sent of God they considered to be false prophets; and hence they killed, stoned, punished and imprisoned the true prophets, and they had to hide themselves "in deserts, and dens, and caves of the earth;" and although the most honorable men of the earth, they banished them from their society as vagabonds; whilst they cherished, honored, and supported knaves, vagabonds, hypocrites, imposters and the basest of men.

A man must have the discerning of spirits as we before stated to understand these things, and how is he to obtain this gift if there are no gifts of the spirit? And how can these gifts be obtained without revelation? - "Christ ascended into heaven and gave gifts to men, . . . "and he gave some apostles, and some prophets, and some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers." And how were apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, and evangelists chosen? By "prophecy (revelation) and by laying on of hands:" - by a divine communication, and a divinely appointed ordinance - through the medium of the priesthood, organized according to the order of God, by divine appointment. The apostles in ancient times held the keys of this priesthood - of the mysteries of the kingdom of God, and consequently were enabled to unlock, and unravel all things pertaining to the government of the church, the welfare of society, the future destiny of men, and the agency, power, and influence of spirits; for they could control them at pleasure, bid them depart in the name of Jesus, and detect their mischievous and mysterious operations when trying to palm themselves upon the church in a religious garb, and militate against the interest of the church, and the spread of truth - we read that they "cast out devils in the name of Jesus," and when a woman possessing the spirit of divination cried before Paul and Silas "these are the servants of the most high God that shew unto us the way of salvation;" they detected the spirit, and although she spake favorably of them Paul commanded the spirit to come out of her, and saved themselves from the opprobrium that might have been heaped upon their heads, through an affiance with her, in the development of her wicked principles: - which they certainly would have been charged with if they had not rebuked the evil spirit. A power similar to this existed through the medium of the priesthood, in different ages. Moses could detect the magicians' power and shew that he was God's servant, he knew when he was upon the mountain (through revelation,) that Israel was engaged in idolatry; he could develope the sin of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram, detect witches and wizards in their proceedings, and point out the true prophets of the Lord. Joshua knew how to detect the man who had stolen the wedge of gold and the Babylonish garment, Michaiah could point out the false spirit by which the four hundred prophets were governed; and if his advice had been taken, many lives would have been spared. 2, Chron. xviii, 18. Elijah, Elisha, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and many other prophets possessed this power. Our Savior, the apostles, and even the members of the church were endowed with this gift, for says Paul 1, Cor. xii, "to one is given the gift of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues, to another the working of miracles, to another prophesy, to another the discerning of spirits," all these proceeded from the same spirit of God, and were the gifts of God. The Ephesian church were enabled by this principle "to try those that said they were apostles, and were not and found them liars." Rev. ii, 2.

In tracing the thing to the foundation, and looking at it philosophically we shall find a very material difference between the body and the spirit: - the body is supposed to be organized matter, and the spirit by many is thought to be immaterial, without substance. With this latter statement we should beg leave to differ - and state that spirit is a substance; that it is material, but that it is more pure, elastic, and refined matter than the body; - that it existed before the body, can exist in the body, and will exist separate from the body, when the body will be moldering in the dust; and will in the resurrection to again united with it. Without attempting to describe this mysterious connection and the laws that govern the body and spirit of man; their relationship to each other, and the design of God in relation to the human body and spirit, I would just remark that the spirits of men are eternal, that they are governed by the same priesthood that Abraham, Melchizedec, and the apostles were; that they are organized according to that priesthood which is everlasting, "without beginning of days or end of years" - that they all move in their respective spheres, and are governed by the law of God; - that when they appear upon earth they are in a probationary state, and are preparing if righteous, for a future and a greater glory: - that the spirits of good men cannot interfere with the wicked beyond their prescribed bounds; for "Michael the archangel dared not bring a railing accusation against the devil, but said the Lord rebuke thee Satan."

It would seem also that wicked spirits have their bounds, limits, and laws by which they are governed or controlled, and know their future destiny; hence those that were in the maniac said to our Savior, "art thou come to torment us before the time:" - and when Satan presented himself before the Lord among the sons of God, he said that he came "from going to and fro in the earth, and from wandering up and down in it;" and he is emphatically called the prince of the power of the air; and it is very evident that they possess a power that none but those who have the priesthood can control, as we have before adverted to in the case of the sons of Sceva.

Having said so much upon general principles without referring to the peculiar situation, power, and influence of, the magicians of Egypt, the wizards, and witches of the Jews, the oracles of the Heathen; their necromancers, soothsayers, and astrologers; the maniacs of those possessed of devils in the apostles' days, we will notice and try to detect (so far as we have the scriptures for our aid) some few instances of the development of false spirits in more modern times, and in this our day.

The "French Prophets," were possessed of a spirit that deceived; they existed in Vivatis, and Dauphiny in great numbers in the year 1688, there were many boys, and girls from seven to twenty-five; they had strange fits as in tremblings, and faintings, which made them stretch out their legs and arms as in a swoon; they remained awhile in trances and coming out of them uttered all that came into their mouths. [See Buck's Theological Dictionary.] Now God never had any prophets that acted this way; there was nothing indecorous in the proceeding of the Lord's prophets in any age; neither had the apostles, nor prophets in the apostles' day any thing of this kind. Paul says "ye may all prophesy one by one; - and if any thing be revealed to another let the first hold his peace, for the spirit of the prophets, is subject to the prophets," but here we find that the prophets are subject to the spirit, and falling down have twitchings, tumblings, and faintings, through the influence of that spirit; being entirely under its control.. Paul says "let every thing be done decently and in order;" but here we find the greatest disorder and indecency in the conduct of both men, and women, as above described. The same rule would apply to the falling, twitchings swooning, shaking, and trances of many of our modern revivalists.

Joannah Southcot professed to be a prophetess and wrote a book of prophesies in 1804: she became the founder of a people that are now extant; she was to bring forth in a place appointed a son that was to be the Messiah, which thing has failed. Independent of this however, where do we read of a woman that was the founder of a church in the word of God? Paul told the women in his day "to keep silence in the church, and that if they wished to know any thing to ask their husbands at home;" he would not suffer a woman "to rule, or to usurp authority in the church;" but here we find a woman the founder of a church, the revelator and guide, the Alpha and Omega, contrary to all acknowledged rule, principle, and order.

Jemimah Wilkinson, was another prophetess that figured largely in America in the last century. She stated that she was taken sick and died, and that her soul went to heaven where it still continues. Soon after her body was reanimated with the spirit and power of Christ, upon which she set up as a public teacher and declared she had an immediate revelation. Now the scriptures positively assert that "Christ is the first fruit, afterwards those that are Christ’s at his coming; then cometh the end." But Jemimah, according to her testimony died, and rose again before the time mentioned in the scriptures. The idea of her soul being in heaven while her body was on earth is also preposterous; when God breathed into man's nostrils he became a living soul, before that he did not live, and when that was taken away his body died; and so did our Savior when the spirit left the body; nor did his body live until his spirit returned in the power of his resurrection: but Mrs. Wilkinson's soul, [life] was in heaven and her body without the soul [or life] on earth, living [without the soul, or] without life.

The Irvingites, are a people that have counterfeited the truth perhaps the nearest of any of our modern sectarians; they commenced about ten years ago in the city of London in England. They have churches formed in various parts of England and Scotland and some few in Upper Canada. Mr. Irving, their founder, was a learned and talented minister of the church of Scotland; he was a great logician, and a powerful orator; but withal wild and enthusiastic in his views. Moving in the higher circles, and possessing talent and zeal, placed him in a situation to become a conspicuous character, and to raise up a society similar to that which is called after his name.

The Irvingites have apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and angels. They profess to have the gift of tongues and the interpretation of tongues: and in some few instances to the gift of healing.

The first prophetic spirit that was manifested was in some Miss Campbells, that Mr. Irving met with while on a journey in Scotland; they had [what is termed among their sect,] "utterances;" – which were evidently of a supernatural agency. Mr. Irving falling into the common error of considering all supernatural manifestations to be of God; took them to London with him, and introduced them into his church.

They there were honored as the prophetesses of God, and when they spoke Mr. Irving, or any of his ministers had to keep silence; they were peculiarly wrought upon before the congregation, and had strange utterances, uttered with an unnatural, shrill voice and with thrilling intonations; they frequently made use of a few broken unconnected sentences that were ambiguous, incoherent, and incomprehensible; at other times they were more clearly understood. They would frequently cry out, "There is iniquity! There is iniquity!" And Mr. Irving has been led under the influence of this charge to fall down upon his knees before the public congregation and to confess his sin, not knowing whether he had sinned, nor wherein; nor whether the thing referred to him, or somebody else. During these operation the bodies of the persons speaking were powerfully wrought upon, their countenances were distorted, they had frequent twitchings in their hands, and the whole system was powerfully convulsed at intervals; they sometimes however (it is supposed) spoke in correct tongues, and had true interpretations.

Under the influence of this spirit the church was organized by these women; apostles, prophets &c., were soon called, and a systematic order of things introduced, as above mentioned. A Mr. Baxter (afterwards one of the principal prophets) upon going into one of their meetings, says, I saw a power manifested and thought that it was the power of God, and asked that it might fall upon me; it did so and I began to prophesy. Eight or nine years ago, they had about sixty preachers going through the streets of London, testifying that London was to be the place where the ‘two witnesses,’ spoken of by John was to prophecy: that (they) ‘the church and the spirit’ were the witnesses, and that at the end of three years and a half there was to be an earthquake and great destruction, and our savior was to come. Their apostles were collected together at the appointed time watching the event; but Jesus did not come, and the prophesy was then ambiguously explained away. They frequently had signs given them by the spirit, to prove to them that what was manifested to them should take place. Mr. Baxter related an impression that he had concerning a child. It was manifested to him that he should visit the child, and lay hands upon it, and that it should be healed: - and to prove to him that this was of God, he should meet his brother in a certain place who should speak unto him certain words; his brother addressed him precisely in the way and manner that the manifestation designated; the sign took place, - but when he laid his hands on the child it did not recover. I cannot vouch for the authority of the last statement as Mr. Baxter at that time had left the Irvingites, but it is in accordance with many of their proceedings, and the thing never has been attempted to be denied.

It may be asked where is there any thing in all this that is wrong?

1st. The church was organized by women and ‘God placed in the church first apostles, secondarily prophets;’ and not first women; but Mr. Irving placed in his church first women; secondarily apostles; and the church was founded and organized by them. A woman has no right to found or organize a church; God never sent them to do it.

2nd. Those women would speak in the midst of a meeting and rebuke Mr. Irving, or any of the church: now the scripture positively says, ‘thou shalt not rebuke an elder, but entreat him as a father;’ no only this but they frequently accused the brethren, thus placing themselves in the seat of satan who is emphatically called ‘the accuser of the brethren.’

3rd. Mr. Baxter received the spirit on asking for it without attending to the ordinances, and began to prophesy, whereas the scriptural way of attaining the gift of the Holy Ghost is by baptism, and by laying on of hands.

4th. As we have stated in regard to others the spirit of the prophets, are subject to the prophets; but those prophets were subject to the spirits; the spirit controlling their bodies at pleasure.

But it may be asked how Mr. Baxter could get a sign from a second person! To this we would answer that Mr. Baxter’s brother was under the influence of the same spirit as himself; and being subject to that spirit, he could be easily made to speak to Mr. Baxter whatever the spirit should dictate; but there was not power in the spirit to heal the child.

Again it may be asked how it was that they could speak in tongues if they were of the devil? We would answer that they could be made to speak in another tongue as well as in their own as they were under the control of that spirit, and the devil can tempt the Hottentot, the Turk, the Jew, or any other nation; and if these men were under the influence of his spirit they of course could speak Hebrew, Latin, Greek, Italian, Dutch, or any other Language that the devil knew.

Some will say ‘try the spirits’ by the word. ‘Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: and every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God.’ John IV, 2, 3. One of the Irvingites once quoted this passage whilst under the influence of a spirit, and then said, "I confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.’ And yet these prophesies failed, their Messiah did not come; and the great things spoken of by them have fallen to the ground. What is the matter here? Did not the apostle speak the truth? Certainly he did – but he spoke to a people who were under the penalty of death, the moment they embraced Christianity; and no one without a knowledge of the fact would confess it and expose themselves to death: and this was consequently given as a criterion to the church or churches to which John wrote. But the devil on a certain occasion cried out, "I know thee who art the ‘Holy one of God’. Here was a frank acknowledgement under other circumstances, - that ‘Jesus had come in the flesh.’ On another occasion the devil said ‘Paul we know, and Jesus we know;’ of course come in the flesh. No man or sect of men without the regular constituted authorities, the priesthood and discerning of spirits can tell true, from false spirits. This power they possessed in the apostles’ day, but it has departed from the world for ages.

The church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints have also had their false spirits; and as it is made up of all those different sects professing every variety of opinion, and having been under the influence of so many kinds of spirits, it is not to be wondered at if there should be found amongst us false spirits.

Soon after the gospel was established in Kirtland, and during the absence of the authorities of the church, many false spirits were introduced, many strange visions were seen, and wild enthusiastic notions were entertained; men run out of doors under the influence of this spirit, and some of them got upon the stumps of trees and shouted, and all kinds of extravagances were entered into by them: one man pursued a ball that he said he saw flying in the air, until he came to a precipice when he jumped into the top of a tree which saved his life, and many ridiculous things were entered into, calculated to bring disgrace upon the church of God; to cause, the spirit of God to be withdrawn; and to uproot and destroy those glorious principles which had been developed for the salvation of the human family. But when the authorities returned the spirit was made manifest, those members that were exercised with it were tried for their fellowship; and those that would not repent and forsake it were cut off. At a subsequent period a Shaker spirit was on the point of being introduced, and at another time the Methodist and Presbyterian falling-down power; but the spirit was rebuked, and put down, and those who would not submit to rule and good order, were disfellowshipped. We have also had brethren and sisters who have had the gift of tongues falsely: they would speak in a muttering, unnatural voice, and their bodies be distorted like the Irvingites before alluded to; whereas there is nothing unnatural in the spirit of God. A circumstance of this kind took place in Upper Canada, but was rebuked by the presiding elder – another, a woman near the same place professed to have the discerning of spirits, and begun to accuse another sister of things that she was not guilty of, which she said she knew was so by the spirit, - but was afterwards proven to be false – she placed herself in the capacity of the ‘accuser of the brethren’ – and no person through the discerning of spirits can bring a charge against another, they must be proven guilty by positive evidence, or they stand clear.

There have also been ministering angels in the church which were of satan appearing as an angel of light: - A sister in the State of New York had a vision who said it was told her that if she would go to a certain place in the woods an angel would appear to her, - she went at the appointed time and saw a glorious personage descending arrayed in white, with sandy colored hair; he commenced and told her to fear God and said that her husband was called to do great things, but that he must not go more than one hundred miles from home or he would not return; whereas God had called him to go to the ends of the earth; and he has since been more than one thousand miles from home, and is yet alive. Many true things were spoken by this personage and many things that were false. – How it may be asked was this know to be a bad angel? By the color of his hair; that is one of the signs that he can be known by, and by his contradicting a former revelation.

We have also had brethren and sisters that have had written revelations, and have started forward to lead this church. Such was a young boy in Kirtland – Isaac Russell of Mo. And Gladdon Bishop, and Oliver Olney of Nauvoo. The boy is now living with his parents, who have submitted to the laws of the church Mr. Russell stayed in Far West, from whence he was to go to the Rocky mountains, led by three Nephites, but the Nephites never came and his friends forsook him all but some of his blood relations, who have since been nearly destroyed by the mob. Mr. Bishop was tried by the high council his papers examined, condemned, and burned, and he cut off from the church; he acknowledged the justice of the decision and said "that he now saw his error; for if he had have been governed by the revelations given before he might have known that no man was to write revelation for the church but Joseph Smith," and begged to be prayed for and forgiven by the brethren. Mr. Olney has also been tried by the high council and disfellowshiped because he would not have his writings tested by the word of God; evidently proving that he loves darkness rather than light because his deeds are evil.

 

[Truthspeaker]

C'mon Kit-- Don't be so damn literal. Had steel been invented in the eigth century? I don't think so.

Ms Kaboodle.

Yes it was and used in Asia, Mid East, India etc.

The first mention of steel being invented was in the 13th century. Can we have some levity here? While there were alloys used in antiquity prior to the 13th century metals were not commonly called steel in the eighth century in Tibet.

The prophecy still fits and is relevant to the OP.

Steel is an english word.

"The English word steel and the German Stahl are derived from Stahal in Old High German (~l1th century AD) and contain the reconstituted Indo-European root *sta which can be found in the German verb "stehen /stand" or in English "to stand", and related to the Sanskrit stakati, which means: "it resists". The same root is used in Nordic languages and in modem Russian, Polish, etc. In Celtic languages the same root is generally used, e.g., stailin but other words meaning force or hardness are also found, e.g., dir in Breton. In French, acier is derived from the Latin acies which means cutting edge or point of an arrow. The same root is used in all Latin based languages: Spanish, Italian, etc. Diderot explained that Pliny used acies to represent the word chalybs, i.e., steel in ancient Greek."
Linguistic Avatars of Wootz: The Ancient Indian Steel

Lets be clear now, it was the 13th century BC and not AD that steel was first known to be invented.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_was_steel_invented

 

[ABikerSailor]

* 29,000–25,000 BC - First ceramic appears
* 3rd millennium BC - Copper metallurgy is invented and copper is used for ornamentation
* 2nd millennium BC - Bronze is used for weapons and armour
* 1st millennium BC - Pewter beginning to be used in China and Egypt
* 16th century BC - The Hittites develop crude iron metallurgy
* 13th century BC - Invention of steel when iron and charcoal are combined properly
* 10th century BC - Glass production begins in ancient Near East
* 3rd century BC - Wootz steel, the first crucible steel, is invented in ancient India
* 50s BC - Glassblowing techniques flourish in Phoenicia
* 20s BC - Roman architect Vitruvius describes low-water-content method for mixing concrete

Timeline of materials technology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[RodISHI]

Here is a shorter bit to remember TS.

1 John Chapter 4:1-8

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Moroni is a moron, and John Smith is a false prophet.

 

[Said1]

Yes it was and used in Asia, Mid East, India etc.

The first mention of steel being invented was in the 13th century. Can we have some levity here? While there were alloys used in antiquity prior to the 13th century metals were not commonly called steel in the eighth century in Tibet.

The prophecy still fits and is relevant to the OP.

Steel is an english word.

"The English word steel and the German Stahl are derived from Stahal in Old High German (~l1th century AD) and contain the reconstituted Indo-European root *sta which can be found in the German verb "stehen /stand" or in English "to stand", and related to the Sanskrit stakati, which means: "it resists". The same root is used in Nordic languages and in modem Russian, Polish, etc. In Celtic languages the same root is generally used, e.g., stailin but other words meaning force or hardness are also found, e.g., dir in Breton. In French, acier is derived from the Latin acies which means cutting edge or point of an arrow. The same root is used in all Latin based languages: Spanish, Italian, etc. Diderot explained that Pliny used acies to represent the word chalybs, i.e., steel in ancient Greek."
Linguistic Avatars of Wootz: The Ancient Indian Steel

Lets be clear now, it was the 13th century BC and not AD that steel was first known to be invented.
WikiAnswers - When was steel invented

Based on the link she provided, I going to assume she's arguing semantics, .

 

[RodISHI]

Moroni is a moron, and John Smith is a false prophet.

TS does not understand that yet it's

 

[Truthspeaker]

Moroni is a moron, and John Smith is a false prophet.

Here we go again. all attack and no substance.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Here is a shorter bit to remember TS.

1 John Chapter 4:1-8

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Great quote, but the Joseph Smith account helps show more ways that you can try the spirits.