How Much Freedom Are You Willing To Give Up To Fight Terrorism?

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The whole point of fighting terrorism is to preserve freedom. So, none.

I'm afraid he got one right, although the danger is real since the Patriot Act does not say that anyone accessing the information for anything other than counter terrorist purposes should be hung immediately.

 

[FA_Q2]

And TSA had uncovered exactly zero plots.

TSA is not in the business of uncovering plots but rather in the business of preventing folks from even thinking of plots. Without TSA inhibiting your freedom every plane would be blown out of the sky and everybody who flew would lose their freedom and their lives.

Sure they would.
TSA has done nothing. There is some blogger who talks about all the prohibited crap he's smuggled on to planes over the years. The only reason terrorists havent blown up any planes is they dont want to.

1) the underwear bomber did not want to?
2) they confiscate millions of dollars worth of stuff, some of it mine
3) I once had a saw blade 1/4'' by 4" that they xrayed and held up a plane for 20 minutes till they could get it out of my brief case. Passengers almost shot me when I finally got on board.
4) I'm sure nobody would get on plane after 9/11 and Russian bomb without TSA, though I admit they are govt monopoly so largely incompetent!

Except that no matter how sure you are they have failed in every metric possible. Every. Single. One.

 

[FA_Q2]

Our country lost its collective mind after 9/11 and jumped on board the Patriot Act train. Torture; imprisoning US citizens without habeas corpus; flag pin blacklists; wiretapping US citizens by the millions; three wars (Iraq, Afghanistan, Terror), including the pre-emptive invasion of another country; the creation of a massive new Cabinet level police agency; the militarization of state, county, and local police; and so forth.

I have said a few times that in the basement of the US Capitol there is a shrink-wrapped Patriot Act II: This Time We REALLY Mean Business.™

Meter maids will be shooting double-parkers. The FBI will be doing "drop-ins" to ask why there has been a sudden spike in the amount of milk you put in your cereal. Armbands will be the new black. Sean Hannity will be denying bamboo shoots under your fingernails is torture.

Someone has put the idea in a lot of pointy heads that there would be no casualties of the good guys during the War on Terror™. But it has been an inevitable fact there would be, and will be more.

So when our turn comes around again, how much more of your freedoms will you be willing to give up?

Hint: If you go along with the forthcoming argument after the next attack that Muslims are not protected by the First Amendment, that counts as giving up some of your rights.

I think after the next attack we will see more domestic warrantless internet/cell phone surveillance. And it will take some form that identifies communication to and from the same site with regularity, even if you are communicating with your sister in Peoria, or a biz associate in Washington DC. In short, they'll read our mail

My personal view is that I'm ok with that IF there are various safeguards that make it illegal to use info to prosecute or even target for further spying WITH a warrant for any non-terror crime, like child porn or drugs. And, allowing a private citizen to file a complaint in court, and if a govt official violated the law, he goes to the pokey and is financially destroyed.

The government is already doing all that. They started before the ink on the Patriot Act was dry.

The Patriot Act was actually the culmination of a long wish list law enforcement had had for a long time. And not just for use against terrorists, but for use against all kinds of domestic criminal activities.

It was extremely naive to believe the Patriot Act would only be used against terrorists.

Willfully blind.

All new powers that the government acquires are expanded as much as possible to allow them to use those powers in the fullest extent they can dream up. I was shocked with how surprised people were with Snowdens 'revaluations' about the government and its newfound spying. What was going to happen was blatantly obvious and actually outright sought after with the PA. The fact that the electorate was surprised at all just shows how willfully ignorant most are.

 

[MadDog]

Hint: If you go along with the forthcoming argument after the next attack that Muslims are not protected by the First Amendment, that counts as giving up some of your rights.

It's rather arrogant of you to think YOU are the official arbiter on what rights we have and which, if any, we've given up.

Don't you think?

 

[MadDog]

The filth that comes out of you Conservatards is disgusting .

As opposed to the filth that comes from you, which ISN'T disgusting?

 

[Dot Com]

Our country lost its collective mind after 9/11 and jumped on board the Patriot Act train. Torture; imprisoning US citizens without habeas corpus; flag pin blacklists; wiretapping US citizens by the millions; three wars (Iraq, Afghanistan, Terror), including the pre-emptive invasion of another country; the creation of a massive new Cabinet level police agency; the militarization of state, county, and local police; and so forth.

I have said a few times that in the basement of the US Capitol there is a shrink-wrapped Patriot Act II: This Time We REALLY Mean Business.™

Meter maids will be shooting double-parkers. The FBI will be doing "drop-ins" to ask why there has been a sudden spike in the amount of milk you put in your cereal. Armbands will be the new black. Sean Hannity will be denying bamboo shoots under your fingernails is torture.

Someone has put the idea in a lot of pointy heads that there would be no casualties of the good guys during the War on Terror™. But it has been an inevitable fact there would be, and will be more.

So when our turn comes around again, how much more of your freedoms will you be willing to give up?

Hint: If you go along with the forthcoming argument after the next attack that Muslims are not protected by the First Amendment, that counts as giving up some of your rights.

*** duplicate post

 

[Conservative65]

Our country lost its collective mind after 9/11 and jumped on board the Patriot Act train. Torture; imprisoning US citizens without habeas corpus; flag pin blacklists; wiretapping US citizens by the millions; three wars (Iraq, Afghanistan, Terror), including the pre-emptive invasion of another country; the creation of a massive new Cabinet level police agency; the militarization of state, county, and local police; and so forth.

I have said a few times that in the basement of the US Capitol there is a shrink-wrapped Patriot Act II: This Time We REALLY Mean Business.™

Meter maids will be shooting double-parkers. The FBI will be doing "drop-ins" to ask why there has been a sudden spike in the amount of milk you put in your cereal. Armbands will be the new black. Sean Hannity will be denying bamboo shoots under your fingernails is torture.

Someone has put the idea in a lot of pointy heads that there would be no casualties of the good guys during the War on Terror™. But it has been an inevitable fact there would be, and will be more.

So when our turn comes around again, how much more of your freedoms will you be willing to give up?

Hint: If you go along with the forthcoming argument after the next attack that Muslims are not protected by the First Amendment, that counts as giving up some of your rights.

Maybe if we didnt have a terrorist sympathizer for a president we wouldnt be where we are now.

The filth that comes out of you Conservatards is disgusting .

The level to which you pucker up to Obama's ass is disgusting. Keep kissing. Hillary's vagina is next on your list.

 

[Dot Com]

lol CrusaderFrank.... NOT!!!

[emoji6]

 

[The Rabbi]

Our country lost its collective mind after 9/11 and jumped on board the Patriot Act train. Torture; imprisoning US citizens without habeas corpus; flag pin blacklists; wiretapping US citizens by the millions; three wars (Iraq, Afghanistan, Terror), including the pre-emptive invasion of another country; the creation of a massive new Cabinet level police agency; the militarization of state, county, and local police; and so forth.

I have said a few times that in the basement of the US Capitol there is a shrink-wrapped Patriot Act II: This Time We REALLY Mean Business.™

Meter maids will be shooting double-parkers. The FBI will be doing "drop-ins" to ask why there has been a sudden spike in the amount of milk you put in your cereal. Armbands will be the new black. Sean Hannity will be denying bamboo shoots under your fingernails is torture.

Someone has put the idea in a lot of pointy heads that there would be no casualties of the good guys during the War on Terror™. But it has been an inevitable fact there would be, and will be more.

So when our turn comes around again, how much more of your freedoms will you be willing to give up?

Hint: If you go along with the forthcoming argument after the next attack that Muslims are not protected by the First Amendment, that counts as giving up some of your rights.

Maybe if we didnt have a terrorist sympathizer for a president we wouldnt be where we are now.

The filth that comes out of you Conservatards is disgusting .

The level to which you pucker up to Obama's ass is disgusting. Keep kissing. Hillary's vagina is next on your list.

Not sure which is more repulsive.

 

[Conservative65]

Our country lost its collective mind after 9/11 and jumped on board the Patriot Act train. Torture; imprisoning US citizens without habeas corpus; flag pin blacklists; wiretapping US citizens by the millions; three wars (Iraq, Afghanistan, Terror), including the pre-emptive invasion of another country; the creation of a massive new Cabinet level police agency; the militarization of state, county, and local police; and so forth.

I have said a few times that in the basement of the US Capitol there is a shrink-wrapped Patriot Act II: This Time We REALLY Mean Business.™

Meter maids will be shooting double-parkers. The FBI will be doing "drop-ins" to ask why there has been a sudden spike in the amount of milk you put in your cereal. Armbands will be the new black. Sean Hannity will be denying bamboo shoots under your fingernails is torture.

Someone has put the idea in a lot of pointy heads that there would be no casualties of the good guys during the War on Terror™. But it has been an inevitable fact there would be, and will be more.

So when our turn comes around again, how much more of your freedoms will you be willing to give up?

Hint: If you go along with the forthcoming argument after the next attack that Muslims are not protected by the First Amendment, that counts as giving up some of your rights.

Maybe if we didnt have a terrorist sympathizer for a president we wouldnt be where we are now.

The filth that comes out of you Conservatards is disgusting .

The level to which you pucker up to Obama's ass is disgusting. Keep kissing. Hillary's vagina is next on your list.

Not sure which is more repulsive.

The same just for different reasons.

 

[Dot Com]

Repubs passed & signed DHS (largest increase in BIG Brother gubmint in living memory) creation

 

[FA_Q2]

Repubs passed & signed DHS (largest increase in BIG Brother gubmint in living memory) creation

And libs back it to this day along with the PA.

And they both keep telling me the parties are oh so different....

 

[Dot Com]

Repubs passed & signed DHS (largest increase in BIG Brother gubmint in living memory) creation

And libs back it to this day along with the PA.

And they both keep telling me the parties are oh so different....

all of them? A vast majority of the "no" votes were Dem. Why do you keep playing this game when you lose every time?

The same thing you people say when confronted w/ iraq, You say "well they voted for it". Yeah, based on false intel provided by the neocons & vulcans in the WH not to mention that weasel Feith in the Pentagon.

 

[Wry Catcher]

How much liberal ideology is the left willing to give up to fight terrorism?

How much would you like to see banished, just enough for fascism to become the new normal (if it hasn't already)?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Our country lost its collective mind after 9/11 and jumped on board the Patriot Act train. Torture; imprisoning US citizens without habeas corpus; flag pin blacklists; wiretapping US citizens by the millions; three wars (Iraq, Afghanistan, Terror), including the pre-emptive invasion of another country; the creation of a massive new Cabinet level police agency; the militarization of state, county, and local police; and so forth.

I have said a few times that in the basement of the US Capitol there is a shrink-wrapped Patriot Act II: This Time We REALLY Mean Business.™

Meter maids will be shooting double-parkers. The FBI will be doing "drop-ins" to ask why there has been a sudden spike in the amount of milk you put in your cereal. Armbands will be the new black. Sean Hannity will be denying bamboo shoots under your fingernails is torture.

Someone has put the idea in a lot of pointy heads that there would be no casualties of the good guys during the War on Terror™. But it has been an inevitable fact there would be, and will be more.

So when our turn comes around again, how much more of your freedoms will you be willing to give up?

Hint: If you go along with the forthcoming argument after the next attack that Muslims are not protected by the First Amendment, that counts as giving up some of your rights.

Absolutely NONE

 

[Vigilante]

 

[Wry Catcher]

Fear Mongering ^^^ by a coward. "The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself", for fear will be promulgated by those who carry the American Flag and the Cross of Christianity, while rejecting the very things such symbols represent.

Don't allow rhetoric by cowards and bigots such as Vigilante to infect your humanity, compassion and empathy. Human traits missing in pathological personalities like members of ISIS and fascists like Vigilante.

 

[FA_Q2]

Repubs passed & signed DHS (largest increase in BIG Brother gubmint in living memory) creation

And libs back it to this day along with the PA.

And they both keep telling me the parties are oh so different....

all of them? A vast majority of the "no" votes were Dem. Why do you keep playing this game when you lose every time?

The same thing you people say when confronted w/ iraq, You say "well they voted for it". Yeah, based on false intel provided by the neocons & vulcans in the WH not to mention that weasel Feith in the Pentagon.

The 'yes' votes far outdid the no votes (including just democrat votes) AND the president was more than happy to sign it into law.

Lose every time? That might be part of your problem - you seem to think that debates are a win/lose proposition or that your opinion on who 'won' is even remotely meaningful. It is not.

Why do you keep defending the democrat party when they clearly violate the core valuse that they purport to stand for?
Congressional Bills and Votes

The democrats offered enough resistance to ensure its passage and nothing more. The house looks much better for the democrats where there were a lot more no votes but it still passed easily - imagine that.

Of course the PA no longer exists - it has expired. You know what replaced it in virtually the same state while changing the one thing the public flipped out about:

U.S. Senate: Roll Call Vote

Oh shit - where are all the democrat nays now? What did Obama have to say about the lapse of authority between the two bills?

And what makes this bill so superior to the PA? It transfers the ability to track contacts from the NSA or to a requirement of the phone companies themselves. Oh, so much better.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Repubs passed & signed DHS (largest increase in BIG Brother gubmint in living memory) creation

dear, national defense has nothing to do with big govt. It would be 100% stupid to have a tiny Republican govt that was not protected by a huge military!!

Do you have the IQ to understand?