How to fix illegal immigration?

[CultureCitizen]

What is the cost of I.Im.? And I dont just mean monitarally, I mean across the board.
You dont think it wiil work?
Cost...are you for real!?
Who gives a shit about the cost.
Cost....
Let me ask you, what part of the country do you live in?

The cost wouldn't be so high.
Barbed wire and sensors are cheap and it would take less than 300 million to put both of them ( solar panels included)

I am not sure they would be effective , as barbed wire can be cut and sensors can be disabled / stolen.

Now , the squads would be expensive , it would take some 20 billion per year to have the amount of soldiers / guards you are requesting: 250,000 guards watching the border. It is not too much comparing it with the rest of the US federal budget.

Still , I am not completely sure this would solve the problem. There is a "water baloon" effect with this kind of problems : once you squeeze in one zone you only provoke a movement to another zone. Once the land border is secure immigrants could come by sea ( or not ).

Well, the military are already being paid as they sit on their butts on base.
When and IF they cut the barbed wire and DONT get shot, we simply repair the wire.
The sensors will be on the American side of the border and would be watched by the military.
We could actually use illeagals to build the wall...lol. Now wouldnt THAT be something!

I disagree in the use of military for this specific purpose, as military are not properly trained for policing activities.
The border patrol is the most appropiate force to perform this kind of tasks.

 

[Windship]

I was in the Marines 75-79.Do you know what they do? The Marines guard. Thats what they are known for and thats what we were told in boot camp. Marines are guards.
What special training does a troop need to guard?

 

[CultureCitizen]

I was in the Marines 75-79.Do you know what they do? The Marines guard. Thats what they are known for and thats what we were told in boot camp. Marines are guards.
What special training does a troop need to guard?

1. Ensure they do not shoot on sight
2. Ensure they do not violate any human rights.
3. Speak spanish at a basic level
4. Basic knowledge of criminal law, administrative law , immigration law and arrest techniques.

For such a job it is important to distinguish between human traffick victims and illegal crossing.
Both scenarios are similar , but must not be treated in the same way.

 

[Windship]

1. Ensure they do not shoot on sight
2. Ensure they do not violate any human rights.
3. Speak spanish at a basic level
4. Basic knowledge of criminal law, administrative law , immigration law and arrest techniques.
"but must not be treated in the same way."
Really? Why not?
Screw all of that shit. There not suppossed to be here. Their a cancer and cancer needs to be cut out with a sharp knife.

 

[Windship]

You ever lost a job to an illegal?

 

[williepete]

As was mentioned before, it's a supply and demand problem. As long as there is a demand for cheap labor, our laws will continue to be violated.

Like the old saying goes, "If you want to get rid of mosquitoes, you've got to dry up the swamp".

How do you do that? Simple. Severe penalties for employers who skirt laws to hire illegals. Get caught with ONE illegal on your payroll, loss of your business license. Severe penalties for those who supply false employment papers. Same penalty as forging a passport. Give a six month notice in advance of these penalties.

Next, adopt Mexico's immigration laws. Want to be a U.S. citizen? Show us you bring something to the table that benefits America. Screw up while you're here during your probation? Bang--you're out. Adopt Canada's guest worker program for seasonal agricultural labor needs and fluctuations in the economy. Economy hot and you need labor? Bring 'em in on a guest worker pass. Economy slow? Throttle back on the passes.

Mexico has been using the U.S. as a pressure relief value for their economy for well over a hundred years. It's past time we did the same thing with their vast pool of unskilled labor. When times are good and unemployment, food stamp and welfare rolls are low, bring in the guest workers. When times are hard, jobs go to Americans first. As it is now, we're paying Americans not to work while illegals are working and sending money home and out of our economy.

Will this simple solution ever be used? No.

Like another old saying, "Republicans want cheap labor, Democrats want cheap votes and Americans want cheap lettuce."
TRANSLATION: We're committing national suicide.


MEXICO’S IMMIGRATION LAW:
(a.k.a. General Law on Population)

• Mexico welcomes only foreigners who will be useful to Mexican society:
- Foreigners are admitted into Mexico “according to their possibilities of contributing to national progress.” (Article 32)
- Immigration officials must “ensure” that “immigrants will be useful elements for the country and that they have the necessary funds for their sustenance” and for their dependents. (Article 34)
- Foreigners may be barred from the country if their presence upsets “the equilibrium of the national demographics,” when foreigners are deemed detrimental to “economic or national interests,” when they do not behave like good citizens in their own country, when they have broken Mexican laws, and when “they are not found to be physically or mentally healthy.” (Article 37)
- The Secretary of Governance may “suspend or prohibit the admission of foreigners when he determines it to be in the national interest.” (Article 38)

• Mexican authorities must keep track of every single person in the country:
- Federal, local and municipal police must cooperate with federal immigration authorities upon request, i.e., to assist in the arrests of illegal immigrants. (Article 73)
- A National Population Registry keeps track of “every single individual who comprises the population of the country,” and verifies each individual’s identity. (Articles 85 and 86)
- A national Catalog of Foreigners tracks foreign tourists and immigrants (Article 87), and assigns each individual with a unique tracking number (Article 91).

• Foreigners with fake papers, or who enter the country under false pretenses, may be imprisoned:
- Foreigners with fake immigration papers may be fined or imprisoned. (Article 116)
- Foreigners who sign government documents “with a signature that is false or different from that which he normally uses” are subject to fine and imprisonment. (Article 116)

• Foreigners who fail to obey the rules will be fined, deported, and/or imprisoned as felons:
- Foreigners who fail to obey a deportation order are to be punished. (Article 117)
- Foreigners who are deported from Mexico and attempt to re-enter the country without authorization can be imprisoned for up to 10 years. (Article 118)
- Foreigners who violate the terms of their visa may be sentenced to up to six years in prison (Articles 119, 120 and 121). Foreigners who misrepresent the terms of their visa while in Mexico — such as working with out a permit — can also be imprisoned.

• Under Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony. The General Law on Population says,
- “A penalty of up to two years in prison and a fine of three hundred to five thousand pesos will be imposed on the foreigner who enters the country illegally.” (Article 123)
- Foreigners with legal immigration problems may be deported from Mexico instead of being imprisoned. (Article 125)
- Foreigners who “attempt against national sovereignty or security” will be deported. (Article 126)

• Mexicans who help illegal aliens enter the country are themselves considered criminals under the law:
- A Mexican who marries a foreigner with the sole objective of helping the foreigner live in the country is subject to up to five years in prison. (Article 127)
- Shipping and airline companies that bring undocumented foreigners into Mexico will be fined. (Article 132)

 

[Unkotare]

You ever lost a job to an illegal?

I have no doubt that you have lost jobs to doorknobs.

 

[CultureCitizen]

1. Ensure they do not shoot on sight
2. Ensure they do not violate any human rights.
3. Speak spanish at a basic level
4. Basic knowledge of criminal law, administrative law , immigration law and arrest techniques.
"but must not be treated in the same way."
Really? Why not?
Screw all of that shit. There not suppossed to be here. Their a cancer and cancer needs to be cut out with a sharp knife.

You are a real Neanthertal. You should be working side by side with Putin.

Illegal immigrant -> Violates the law of a country by trespassing without the proper documentation. Yes , it is a crime and it must be punished... most certainly not by death.

Human traffic victim -> Brought into the states unwillingly, usually to perform prostitution or forced labour.

Here's an example :
?Chica chica? cards draw scrutiny | New York Post

Now the BIG difference these guys ( the traffickers ) must go into jail as crime perpetrators. The victims deserve respectfull treatment.

 

[CultureCitizen]

You ever lost a job to an illegal?

Nope, I worked side by side with a Nicaraguan illegal while we were both trainees at Ingress ( long ago ). Could I loose my job to him? Well ...yes, possibly, he is very skilled, but now we work at different companies with completely different profiles.

He had a cousin who was illegal, he woke up every morning at 4:00 am . His work : trash collector. A job I would rather not take unless I was in a desperate situation.

 

[CultureCitizen]

I was in the Marines 75-79.Do you know what they do? The Marines guard. Thats what they are known for and thats what we were told in boot camp. Marines are guards.
What special training does a troop need to guard?

Well, probably old school marines knew how to guard. These modern marines,don't seem to have a clue on how to achieve the aformentioned guarding....

http://publicintelligence.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/AfghanOpiumSurvey2012-1.png

unless ...

U.S. Occupation Leads to All-Time High Afghan Opium Production Washington's Blog

silly me , of course , they are guarding the fields to make sure they don't get destroyed by anyone ... hey , that's the America I love the most, the one that makes sure thoese poppy plants arrive to those European junkies... all payed with good American taxes.

Way to go Georgie boy (that's W Bush for you ) !!!

 

[Windship]

1. Ensure they do not shoot on sight
2. Ensure they do not violate any human rights.
3. Speak spanish at a basic level
4. Basic knowledge of criminal law, administrative law , immigration law and arrest techniques.
"but must not be treated in the same way."
Really? Why not?
Screw all of that shit. There not suppossed to be here. Their a cancer and cancer needs to be cut out with a sharp knife.

You are a real Neanthertal. You should be working side by side with Putin.

Illegal immigrant -> Violates the law of a country by trespassing without the proper documentation. Yes , it is a crime and it must be punished... most certainly not by death.

Human traffic victim -> Brought into the states unwillingly, usually to perform prostitution or forced labour.

Here's an example :
?Chica chica? cards draw scrutiny | New York Post

Now the BIG difference these guys ( the traffickers ) must go into jail as crime perpetrators. The victims deserve respectfull treatment.

I am not a neanderthal. I understand the problem and its ramifications where so many dont. Sad. You have to be a realist instead of a bleeding heart or a greedy capitolist. You have to harden and care more about our country instead of "their just looking fo a better life". Believe it or not, there are a lot of US citizens who are looking for a better life.
This country is so finished on so many levels and it is its own citizens that are giving it away, from sending jobs out of the country for cheap labor, to letting in the cheap labor all in the name of corporate profits. 30 yrs of stagnant and now declining wages along with jobs being sent to areas where labor is a fraction of what is here, has depleted the tax base and caused so many problems here. People making good wages and spending that money, along with credit, is what makes a healthy economy. People driving down wages and benifits is only bad. THATS economics. That is fact and should not be disputed by anyone except by the ignorant.

 

[CultureCitizen]

1. Ensure they do not shoot on sight
2. Ensure they do not violate any human rights.
3. Speak spanish at a basic level
4. Basic knowledge of criminal law, administrative law , immigration law and arrest techniques.
"but must not be treated in the same way."
Really? Why not?
Screw all of that shit. There not suppossed to be here. Their a cancer and cancer needs to be cut out with a sharp knife.

You are a real Neanthertal. You should be working side by side with Putin.

Illegal immigrant -> Violates the law of a country by trespassing without the proper documentation. Yes , it is a crime and it must be punished... most certainly not by death.

Human traffic victim -> Brought into the states unwillingly, usually to perform prostitution or forced labour.

Here's an example :
?Chica chica? cards draw scrutiny | New York Post

Now the BIG difference these guys ( the traffickers ) must go into jail as crime perpetrators. The victims deserve respectfull treatment.

I am not a neanderthal. I understand the problem and its ramifications where so many dont. Sad. You have to be a realist instead of a bleeding heart or a greedy capitolist. You have to harden and care more about our country instead of "their just looking fo a better life". Believe it or not, there are a lot of US citizens who are looking for a better life.
This country is so finished on so many levels and it is its own citizens that are giving it away, from sending jobs out of the country for cheap labor, to letting in the cheap labor all in the name of corporate profits. 30 yrs of stagnant and now declining wages along with jobs being sent to areas where labor is a fraction of what is here, has depleted the tax base and caused so many problems here. People making good wages and spending that money, along with credit, is what makes a healthy economy. People driving down wages and benifits is only bad. THATS economics. That is fact and should not be disputed by anyone except by the ignorant.

If something distinguishes America from other less fortunate countries it is the rule of law. Civil violations, should be treated according to law. This is not a shoot-them-all game and we are not at war with any of the south and central american countries from which the illegals are comming.


Now, I agree the border has to be secured. The border patrol is a quallified ( if understaffed ) institution which can perform this activity.
I do not agree on the way you are seeking to secure it. A standing Army is qualified to handle a war situation, not for patrolling borders in peace time.

What we are getting is mostly unarmed civilians trying to cross the border ilegally. It is not an invasión from a foreign army.
I do not agree cheap labour is the issue, there is a lot of demand for highly quallified jobs.

Better education will be more productive in the long run than trying to keep the "cheap" qualified and semi-qualified jobs ( that, and stopping the greed from financial companies ... I am still hoping the shale gas doesn't turn out to be a huge scam).

 

[MoonPygg]

there are LEGAL ways for citizens who have a problem with all this trouble with illegal immigration to do something about it. i am not sure why i have never see it anywhere. if our government does not want to enforce the immigration laws we can as citizens of this country BOYCOTT illegal immigrant businesses! stop going to their restaurants and pigging out! only buy automobiles from american dealerships! if these ILLEGAL immigrants get economic power we will really be in the ...! and boycotting is the AMERICAN way of getting a point across. please people pay attention to this plea!

 

[PhilipBrown]

I believe there is a solution to the illegal immigration debate that although will not make anyone happy, it will at least make everyone satisfy with the results. Both the democrats and republicans; as well as groups for and against amnesty. The idea is to create a law with every imaginable enforcement tool to make it extremely difficult for any future illegal immigrants to live in our country, and in return we would allow the current illegal immigrants to maintain legal residency as long as they do not break any major laws. The law would prevent future congresses from making them citizens and limit the amount of social services that they can use. They cannot sponsor their relatives for residency or citizenship. The signup period will last only for one year after the bill becomes law, and the illegal immigrant will have to show he has been in the United States for at least three years.

One of the many enforcement laws would give states and local governments the power to enforce immigration laws any way they want. This would include fines, jail time, and even deportations. We would not have to rely on the federal government or the president to enforce the law. Even if a state like California does not want to enforce immigration law, any city or policeman in California will have the authority to enforce immigration law and it would be against the law for California state officials to stop them. Any law enforcement agency that catches illegal immigrants would have the authority to seize their property (houses, cars, etc.), sell it, and keep the profits. This would be a very strong incentive for financially struggling states to arrest and deport illegal immigrants. States can even outsource the work to bounty hunters. Also, the federal government would be required to pay for 70 percent of the deportation cost.

The bill would have to be made into a constitutional amendment in order to prevent future congresses from eroding it. The democrats would have to vote for the bill because a lot of their supporters will be angry if they passed up the chance to give their illegal relatives legal residence. The republicans would vote for the bill because the new enforcements will take away any incentive for future illegal immigrants to sneak into the United States and the law will prevent future congresses from legalizing the next wave. I HATE the idea of giving legal residents to illegal immigrants, but since there are a number of spineless congressmen is on the verge of giving them citizenship within a few years, I think this might be the best of a bad situation.

I would like to know what do you think of this solution?

 

[Unkotare]

Wouldn't pass, wouldn't work if it did. Anything else?

 

[PhilipBrown]

Unkotare,

Thanks for your reply. I am hoping to get some more insight on three areas of your message.

1) What group of people would want to prevent this bill from becoming law? (democrats, republicans, etc)

2) Why would they want to stop it?

3) If by some miracle this bill did become law, what would prevent it from working?

Philip Brown