Hurrah for pollution

My, my, how you 'Conservatives' love your 'alteranative facts. What a lying asshole you are. Here is the reality of what is happening;

Plundering Appalachia - The Tragedy of Mountaintop-Removal Coal Mining :: The Issue

Mountaintop-removal mines in Appalachia are estimated to produce just 5 to 10 percent of total U.S. coal production, and generate less than 4 percent of our electricity—an amount that could be eliminated from the energy supply with small gains in energy efficiency and conservation. This highly destructive form of surface mining is disfiguring an entire region, the coalfield areas of West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, and Virginia, because of one reason: profit.

More than 470 mountains in the southern Appalachians, which are among the oldest mountains on Earth, have already been sheared off. Vast areas of wildlife habitat, the most biologically diverse forest in North America, have been obliterated. Roughly 2000 miles of streams have been filled or severly degraded by mining waste, all in pursuit of coal. And coal is a lousy way to power a society.

From mining to burning to disposing the combustion waste, it’s a dirty business. Unfortunately, in our reductionist age, too often people looking at the coal problem don’t consider the whole problem. Only by contemplating the entire life cycle of fossil energy—coal extraction, preparation, transportation, combustion, and waste disposal of by-products—can one fully understand the enormity of coal’s toxic legacy.

See how coal’s toxic legacy stretches from blown-up mountains to a dangerously warming planet to coal ash dumps polluting air and water:

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The most profitable way to decapitate a mountain. Blow its top off, section by section, and then move the rubble with heavy equipment. Sometimes the forest cloaking the condemned mountain is clear-cut; more often the trees are simply scraped away, bulldozed into a pile, and burned. A pad is leveled, and a large drilling rig bores a series of holes. Into them goes a mixture of ammonium nitrate and fuel oil—the same type of explosive that homegrown terrorist Timothy McVeigh used to bomb the Alfred Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. Prior to detonation, warning whistles sound. When the charge explodes, the earth shudders. The explosions may shake and crack house foundations, startle wildlife, and spray a large area with dust and flying rock. Coal mining is far and away the largest industrial consumer of explosives in the United States. According to government figures for 2005, more than 1.8 billion pounds of high explosives were used in West Virginia and Kentucky alone, primarily in surface-mining operations.

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The most ancient mountains in North America, plundered for profit. The forest covering these venerable ridges and valleys is a global hotspot of biological diversity. An estimated 800,000 acres of that forest have already been destroyed—and more than 470 mountains sheared off—by surface-mining operations. Sometimes hundreds of feet of elevation are lost as a mountain’s original contour is blasted away. The topsoil, foundation of the landscape’s exceptional diversity of life, is wasted. Broad, plateau-like mesas remain. Federal law does not require formerly forested mine sites to be reforested during “reclamation.” Even when operators meet their legal obligations to reclaim mined areas, the result is a biological wasteland compared to the native forest—generally a thin, green sheen of exotic grass growing on compacted rubble. The return of a vibrant, ecologically healthy natural community that approaches its former richness is a distant dream.

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Mountaintop removal is strip-mining on steroids. Massive dump trucks, huge bulldozers, and ten-story-high draglines can undo in months what geological processes took millions of years to build. Typically, multiple coal seams are exposed as a mountaintop-removal operation dismantles the landscape, piece by piece. The earthmoving equipment requires only a handful of operators. Mine- related employment in the Appalachian coalfields has plummeted in recent decades because of increasing mechanization, and because production has shifted from underground to surface mining—“taking the miner out of mining,” as local residents say. These radical strip-mining operations not only obliterate the former habitat and homes of innumerable wild creatures, they also reshape the very contour of the horizon. The familiar curves and folds of the landscape, the mountains that have anchored communities for generations, are simply gone.


Awwwwwww ... Such a sad story. How come you only told HALF of it and left out the happy ending???

http://mining.state.co.us/Programs/Abandoned/Reclamation/Pages/AwardsandAccolades.aspx

Or in Virginia.

impacts.jpg


Geez.. You'd think that REAL environmentalists -- even lefty ones --- would be smart enough to find ways to address the problem OTHER than crying and throwing hissy fits..

Most damage can be fixed if there is a will and enough $$.

I have no issue with forcing companies that break things to fix them, but using regulations as an excuse to kill an industry under the guise of regulating it is dishonest.

Exactly. It's used as excuse. The damage is NOWHERE NEAR permanent if it's addressed and if there was the WILL -- companies and jobs would be created to move Mother Nature back into place. Better than before.

Not costly to plant stuff and regrade. Not at all.
Then why are they not doing it, except for a few Potemkin Villages.

Because the EPA is spending too much money on Climate Change and wants to KILL the coal industry rather than make it look pretty?? C'mon man. Think !!!! They WANT the ugly pictures.. They HAVE the power and money to fix it. It's a drop in the freaking bucket if they were motivated to help coal clean up it's image.
What the fuck? The EPA is supposed to fix what the coal companies have screwed up? So you are cheering for the companies privatizing the profits and socializing the costs. So now we see your true colors. You want us to pay for the electricity twice. Coal's image is the fault of the coal companies. And there is no cheap way to make coal clean. Time for that source of energy to be put in the dustbin where it belongs.
 
PERFECT !!! WHO exactly OWNS the Kingston plant there Squidward?

TVA.

So, your point is that coal pollution isn't really pollution if it was from TVA land?

You seem absolutely shocked that a government agency wasn't perfect. Modern libertarians tend to all be like that, having these meltdowns when their vision of a perfect government is shown to be a myth. You didn't see any rational people having such meltdowns.

It's not so much they're perfect. It's more they feel above the responsibilities that the GOVT operations REQUIRE of other companies. You know that. Look at the ongoing MAJOR enviro disasters at the Govt Nuclear weapons sites. It's CRIMINAL and heartbreaking. Or the avoidance of enviro regs at military installations leaving a gooey sucky mess when they bug out and close. The GOVT -- like in East Germany -- is EXEMPT from scorn and accountability when it comes to silly ole environmental stewardship.. Dontcha know this? All Libertarians do...
Not only know this, but also have attended meetings concerning the problems at the Hanford site. And also am aware of superfund sites that private companies created then abandoned. You have your little dingbat ideology concerning government is all bad, and private business can do no wrong. And we are talking about the damage that coal mining does the the environment, and the fact that the GOP just gave the coal companies that remain license to kill whole watersheds.
 
It's a drop in the freaking bucket if they were motivated to help coal clean up it's image.

Why on earth would they do that? What on earth would motivate the EPA to clean up the image of the filthiest of polluters in the energy business, second only to exploding nuclear plants? Apparently, you misread "EPA" to mean Environmental Polluter-Protection Agency.

As to "drop in the bucket":

There are an estimated 4,000 orphan mines in the Commonwealth, 69% of which have been inventoried (2013). Once identified, an orphaned mine site is evaluated for its potential hazards to the environment and the public’s health and safety. This evaluation includes soil and water investigations, studies on the feasibility of reclaiming the site, cost analysis, and seeking the landowner’s consent to allow reclamation to proceed.

The first orphaned land site was reclaimed in 1981. Since then, 125 orphaned land projects have been completed encompassing 650 acres at a cost of $3,715,301 (2013). The average cost of reclamation per acre has been $5,715.84.​

That's mineral mining sites (excluding coal, for whatever reason) in Virginia alone, and just the "orphaned" ones (how's that for lying with words, concealing corporations saddling the taxpayers with the costs of cleaning up their messes), just as a vague indicator of the costs. Four fricking thousand of them, and no idea whether that's all of the freaking mess, and neither how many not-yet-orphaned mines will suddenly be "orphaned" once exploitation ends. If that's a "drop in the bucket", why can't the operators of the mines be required to share some of their ample profits to get it done?

Naw, instead of having them clean up behind themselves, let government help them clean up their image instead, and bleed taxpayers dry to remedy the toxic eyesores. Typical "libertarian".

Welll there you go. I was right. Not a matter of restoration and SIMPLE ASS cleanup is it? It's to be MEAN and Provocative and Aggressive towards mining.

And your Facts are irrevelant. That $5000 per acre does NOT apply to coal sites. There are no "concentrated tailings" of heavy metal or anything to remove. Learn to think --- before you google and post..
 
Awwwwwww ... Such a sad story. How come you only told HALF of it and left out the happy ending???

http://mining.state.co.us/Programs/Abandoned/Reclamation/Pages/AwardsandAccolades.aspx

Or in Virginia.

impacts.jpg


Geez.. You'd think that REAL environmentalists -- even lefty ones --- would be smart enough to find ways to address the problem OTHER than crying and throwing hissy fits..

Most damage can be fixed if there is a will and enough $$.

I have no issue with forcing companies that break things to fix them, but using regulations as an excuse to kill an industry under the guise of regulating it is dishonest.

Exactly. It's used as excuse. The damage is NOWHERE NEAR permanent if it's addressed and if there was the WILL -- companies and jobs would be created to move Mother Nature back into place. Better than before.

Not costly to plant stuff and regrade. Not at all.
Then why are they not doing it, except for a few Potemkin Villages.

Because the EPA is spending too much money on Climate Change and wants to KILL the coal industry rather than make it look pretty?? C'mon man. Think !!!! They WANT the ugly pictures.. They HAVE the power and money to fix it. It's a drop in the freaking bucket if they were motivated to help coal clean up it's image.
What the fuck? The EPA is supposed to fix what the coal companies have screwed up? So you are cheering for the companies privatizing the profits and socializing the costs. So now we see your true colors. You want us to pay for the electricity twice. Coal's image is the fault of the coal companies. And there is no cheap way to make coal clean. Time for that source of energy to be put in the dustbin where it belongs.

You still don't get it? The EPA has no incentive to ENFORCE clean-up rules for coal mining because they WANT the aftermath to look devasting to the public. The rules are already there. There was a moderate amount of funding to 3rd parties to help that has dried up.. THEY WANT THE CARNAGE AND SCARS...
 
And your Facts are irrevelant.

So I guessed.

That $5000 per acre does NOT apply to coal sites. There are no "concentrated tailings" of heavy metal or anything to remove.

How many fingers in each of your ears, singing "la la la", too? See:

Abandoned mine drainage is water that is polluted from contact with mining activity, and normally associated with coal mining. It is a common form of water pollution in areas where mining took place in the past. There are several issues with abandoned mines that impact water quality:

acid_mine_drainage_2.jpg


  • acid mine drainage (the most prevalent; see below)
  • alkaline mine drainage (this typically occurs when calcite or dolomite is present)
  • metal mine drainage (high levels of lead or other metals drain from these abandoned mines)
Acid mine drainage is the formation and movement of highly acidic water rich in heavy metals. This acidic water forms through the chemical reaction of surface water (rainwater, snowmelt, pond water) and shallow subsurface water with rocks that contain sulfur-bearing minerals, resulting in sulfuric acid. Heavy metals can be leached from rocks that come in contact with the acid, a process that may be substantially enhanced by bacterial action. The resulting fluids may be highly toxic and, when mixed with groundwater, surface water and soil, may have harmful effects on humans, animals and plants.​

No clue, but spouting off. Typical libertarian, forever taking liberties with the facts.
 
Most damage can be fixed if there is a will and enough $$.

I have no issue with forcing companies that break things to fix them, but using regulations as an excuse to kill an industry under the guise of regulating it is dishonest.

Exactly. It's used as excuse. The damage is NOWHERE NEAR permanent if it's addressed and if there was the WILL -- companies and jobs would be created to move Mother Nature back into place. Better than before.

Not costly to plant stuff and regrade. Not at all.
Then why are they not doing it, except for a few Potemkin Villages.

Because the EPA is spending too much money on Climate Change and wants to KILL the coal industry rather than make it look pretty?? C'mon man. Think !!!! They WANT the ugly pictures.. They HAVE the power and money to fix it. It's a drop in the freaking bucket if they were motivated to help coal clean up it's image.
What the fuck? The EPA is supposed to fix what the coal companies have screwed up? So you are cheering for the companies privatizing the profits and socializing the costs. So now we see your true colors. You want us to pay for the electricity twice. Coal's image is the fault of the coal companies. And there is no cheap way to make coal clean. Time for that source of energy to be put in the dustbin where it belongs.

You still don't get it? The EPA has no incentive to ENFORCE clean-up rules for coal mining because they WANT the aftermath to look devasting to the public. The rules are already there. There was a moderate amount of funding to 3rd parties to help that has dried up.. THEY WANT THE CARNAGE AND SCARS...
Oh, I see. If the EPA comes down hard on the polluters, then they are being mean and unjust to the companies. And if they do not, then the pollution the companies create is the fault of the EPA. LOL Wonderful logic.

Just shut the damned things down, and allow no further mountain top mining at all. We don't need it, the renewables are cheaper to use all the way around.
 

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