I Don't Like The "Shift" In MLB....

[rightwinger]

You arent a great hitter if you hit the ball to same spot most of the time......

Deep...man... But back to reality, "small ball" is the punch and judy approach that died for good reason back in the 1960's because Americans like HOME RUNS... Babe Ruth once said homerun hitters drive Cadillacs, singles hitters drive Chevys. Spray hitters are a dime a dozen....pitchers have no fear of them because they can dictate where and how the weak hitters make contact. I know the "small ball" gives the socialists in this thread little woodies, but the average fan wants to see OFFENSE not bunts, flares, and dribblers....that's candyass and irritating same as their politics. My OP is very specific about what I want to see in the future....My first time at Tiger Stadium (then called Briggs Stadium) was in 1959 just as the new era was peeking through....two years later Maris and Mantle vied all summer to see if one of them would break the Babe's record of 60 HRs and Maris did. Mick, a switch-hitter, finished with 54 and a leg injury. The country was enthralled with them. Both pull-hitters, which is the ultimate skill in baseball....nobody used 4 outfielders then and shouldn't be allowed to now...it's UNamerican.

Ralph Kiner said home run hitters drive Cadilacs

We saw where our love affair with the home run got us during the steroids era

 

[Tom Horn]

Ralph Kiner said home run hitters drive Cadilacs

We saw where our love affair with the home run got us during the steroids era

You again? Where did your style of Chicago corruption get us in the Black Sox scandal? It wasn't steroids that bumped up the HRs...it was the balls being wound tight enough to have "Titleist" stamped on them. Now how about you mosey back over to politics since you don't know shit about baseball either.

 

[rightwinger]

Ralph Kiner said home run hitters drive Cadilacs

We saw where our love affair with the home run got us during the steroids era

You again? Where did your style of Chicago corruption get us in the Black Sox scandal? It wasn't steroids that bumped up the HRs...it was the balls being wound tight enough to have "Titleist" stamped on them. Now how about you mosey back over to politics since you don't know shit about baseball either.

You still believe the "juiced up baseball" lie?

Can I interest you in some prime swamp land in Florida?

 

[Pogo]

Deep...man... But back to reality, "small ball" is the punch and judy approach that died for good reason back in the 1960's because Americans like HOME RUNS...

That's because they're told to (read: "sold"). There's no subtlety in a home run unless it's inside-the-park. There's no chance of playing it. The defense can only stand there and watch. There's no "risk".

Babe Ruth once said homerun hitters drive Cadillacs, singles hitters drive Chevys.

Pfft. Babe Ruth struck out a million times too. As do most hitters who have the dimension of power and nothing else. Nobody thought Dave Kingman was a Cadillac.

Spray hitters are a dime a dozen....pitchers have no fear of them because they can dictate where and how the weak hitters make contact.

Weak hitters maybe but good hitters, no. A batter who can drive the ball anywhere it's pitched and connect even if you throw it at his shoetops, that's a Cadillac. And when a defense has runners on base, the last thing it wants to see coming to the plate is a .367 hitter who with a good eye. They'd much rather face Dave Kingman.

Ideal position players are described as "five-tool" for a reason. Hitting with power is only one of them. It's just as valuable to cut down a runner at the plate because the RF has a great arm, or take the extra base because of his speed.

I know the "small ball" gives the socialists in this thread little woodies

That's an interesting theory, since basically what you're debating here is the loner individual (Kingman) versus social cohesion (teamwork/smallball). Unfortunately for that preference beisbol IS a team sport. It's never been about individuals, and it's not supposed to be.

but the average fan wants to see OFFENSE not bunts, flares, and dribblers....that's candyass and irritating

That's subtlety and strategy and complexity and creativity--- none of which exist in simply banging a ball as far as you can. That's called "home run derby". BOR-ing.

Maris and Mantle vied all summer to see if one of them would break the Babe's record of 60 HRs and Maris did. Mick, a switch-hitter, finished with 54 and a leg injury. The country was enthralled with them.

Again, because they were sold a horse race juxtaposing the present against what was considered a historic mark. I remember it. That's all very well but it doesn't honor what the game is as a whole.

We're still sold that idea, that the highlight of a given game yesterday is the home run. Quick, bite-sized instant gratification scene, doesn't need context. And more's the pity. But again, that's what they sell --- doesn't mean we have to buy it.

 

[rightwinger]

Deep...man... But back to reality, "small ball" is the punch and judy approach that died for good reason back in the 1960's because Americans like HOME RUNS...

That's because they're told to (read: "sold"). There's no subtlety in a home run unless it's inside-the-park. There's no chance of playing it. The defense can only stand there and watch. There's no "risk".

Babe Ruth once said homerun hitters drive Cadillacs, singles hitters drive Chevys.

Pfft. Babe Ruth struck out a million times too. As do most hitters who have the dimension of power and nothing else. Nobody thought Dave Kingman was a Cadillac.

Spray hitters are a dime a dozen....pitchers have no fear of them because they can dictate where and how the weak hitters make contact.

Weak hitters maybe but good hitters, no. A batter who can drive the ball anywhere it's pitched and connect even if you throw it at his shoetops, that's a Cadillac. And when a defense has runners on base, the last thing it wants to see coming to the plate is a .367 hitter who with a good eye. They'd much rather face Dave Kingman.

Ideal position players are described as "five-tool" for a reason. Hitting with power is only one of them. It's just as valuable to cut down a runner at the plate because the RF has a great arm, or take the extra base because of his speed.

I know the "small ball" gives the socialists in this thread little woodies

That's an interesting theory, since basically what you're debating here is the loner individual (Kingman) versus social cohesion (teamwork/smallball). Unfortunately for that preference beisbol IS a team sport. It's never been about individuals, and it's not supposed to be.

but the average fan wants to see OFFENSE not bunts, flares, and dribblers....that's candyass and irritating

That's subtlety and strategy and complexity and creativity--- none of which exist in simply banging a ball as far as you can. That's called "home run derby". BOR-ing.

Maris and Mantle vied all summer to see if one of them would break the Babe's record of 60 HRs and Maris did. Mick, a switch-hitter, finished with 54 and a leg injury. The country was enthralled with them.

Again, because they were sold a horse race juxtaposing the present against what was considered a historic mark. I remember it. That's all very well but it doesn't honor what the game is as a whole.

We're still sold that idea, that the highlight of a given game yesterday is the home run. Quick, bite-sized instant gratification scene, doesn't need context. And more's the pity. But again, that's what they sell --- doesn't mean we have to buy it.

He still believes Mickey Mantle finished at 54 because of a "leg injury"
The Mick had a bad reaction to injections to treat the clap from a quasi doctor
It wasn't his leg it was his butt

 

[Tom Horn]

That's because they're told to (read: "sold"). There's no subtlety in a home run unless it's inside-the-park. There's no chance of playing it. The defense can only stand there and watch. There's no "risk". That's an interesting theory, since basically what you're debating here is the loner individual (Kingman) versus social cohesion (teamwork/smallball). Unfortunately for that preference beisbol IS a team sport. It's never been about individuals, and it's not supposed to be.
.

Bizarre.....I was mistaken thinking you or the mutt who's teamed up with you wouldn't veer off into the usual mental illness we see from you daily here. How would you know what "honors the game" when you have no honor or even understand honor. Hitting is no more a "team game" than golf...one against nine, moron. You've taken my thread into some convoluted gibberish I won't bother with further.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Btw way perusing team stats I've never seen such a collection of ne'erdowells in my entire life.
The KC World SEries team was a joke on the public. One of the most pathetic collection of hiiters ever called champions. Couldnt hit for avg....couldnt hit HRs.....

 

[rightwinger]

Btw way perusing team stats I've never seen such a collection of ne'erdowells in my entire life.
The KC World SEries team was a joke on the public. One of the most pathetic collection of hiiters ever called champions. Couldnt hit for avg....couldnt hit HRs.....

But damn were they clutch

 

[Pogo]

That's because they're told to (read: "sold"). There's no subtlety in a home run unless it's inside-the-park. There's no chance of playing it. The defense can only stand there and watch. There's no "risk". That's an interesting theory, since basically what you're debating here is the loner individual (Kingman) versus social cohesion (teamwork/smallball). Unfortunately for that preference beisbol IS a team sport. It's never been about individuals, and it's not supposed to be.
.

Bizarre.....I was mistaken thinking you or the mutt who's teamed up with you wouldn't veer off into the usual mental illness we see from you daily here. How would you know what "honors the game" when you have no honor or even understand honor. Hitting is no more a "team game" than golf...one against nine, moron. You've taken my thread into some convoluted gibberish I won't bother with further.

Swiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing anna miss.

Yeah who knew, baseball's a team sport. Why I understand there are "singles", "doubles" "triples", "stolen bases", "sacrifice flies", "errors", "balks", "walks" and "squeezes" all of which can score runs, which is the whole point of playing.

And I hope you're sitting down for this --- there are actually games, in the books already, in which no home runs were hit at all. Which means some kind of teamwork must have scored for both the winning and the losing team. What a mindfuck huh?

 

[Tom Horn]

Swiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing anna miss.

Yeah who knew, baseball's a team sport. Why I understand there are "singles", "doubles" "triples", "stolen bases", "sacrifice flies", "errors", "balks", "walks" and "squeezes" all of which can score runs, which is the whole point of playing.

And I hope you're sitting down for this --- there are actually games, in the books already, in which no home runs were hit at all. Which means some kind of teamwork must have scored for both the winning and the losing team. What a mindfuck huh?

Find a psychiatrist....stat.

 

[dani67]

Looks like a rover in a damn beer league......offense is WAY down because the saber-weenies figured out how to ruin the most beautiful game on earth by using computer-models to design a defense. Yeah I know they've played the percentages for years....lefty vs. lefty, how long a pitcher takes to get the ball to home if you want to steal a bag. Swinging outfielders around to the hitter's pull side if he can turn and burn a fastball. Or do you play him to swing late and swing the outfielders the other way? I know. And that's fine and I don't even care if the infielders swing around to mass on one side of the infield or the other......I say an infielder can't have his feet on the outfield grass....can't touch it...has to stay in the dirt. If one strays too far back, that's a ball one to the hitter....if he keeps doing it, the guy walks...that will stop this.....

Too many hits that have always been hits are being taken away. I don't watch baseball to see a 2-1 game....soccer fans can have that crap. I want to see these boys hitting some gappers....nothing gets fans off their asses faster than a stand-up triple. OFFENSE....seat-busters, fans going home with HR balls...not this chickenshit stuff.

baseball is bullshit

 

[Tom Horn]

baseball is bullshit

Yeah, we know in Iran you'd rather hit women with bats than baseballs.

 

[xotoxi]

Looks like a rover in a damn beer league......offense is WAY down because the saber-weenies figured out how to ruin the most beautiful game on earth by using computer-models to design a defense. Yeah I know they've played the percentages for years....lefty vs. lefty, how long a pitcher takes to get the ball to home if you want to steal a bag. Swinging outfielders around to the hitter's pull side if he can turn and burn a fastball. Or do you play him to swing late and swing the outfielders the other way? I know. And that's fine and I don't even care if the infielders swing around to mass on one side of the infield or the other......I say an infielder can't have his feet on the outfield grass....can't touch it...has to stay in the dirt. If one strays too far back, that's a ball one to the hitter....if he keeps doing it, the guy walks...that will stop this.....

Too many hits that have always been hits are being taken away. I don't watch baseball to see a 2-1 game....soccer fans can have that crap. I want to see these boys hitting some gappers....nothing gets fans off their asses faster than a stand-up triple. OFFENSE....seat-busters, fans going home with HR balls...not this chickenshit stuff.

If you can't learn to hit the opposite way, then you suck!

 

[leftwinger]

Here's another thing, unrelated to the shift, since we have some baseball minds here........

Say an offense has decent runners on the corners with less than two outs. Runner at 1B takes off on the pitch. Upon seeing the catcher throw to 2B, shouldn't that runner on third automatically break for the plate?

You see it once in a while and it seems to always work. Ball's gotta go P to C to 2B and back to C. That should be enough time for anybody. I think Ryan Howard could make it. We should see this more often. Whether the first runner gets thrown out or not, you have a run.

The Infielder will see it and rush forward to receive the throw from Catcher, firing it right back. They will get them or they would be doing it. Or the Catcher will "sniff it out" and bluff the throw to 2B. The runner on 3rd is a dead duck. With two outs? Weak hitter up? Maybe they would give it a try.

In Lower Leagues or Softball the Pitcher cuts it off and the runner on 3rd is dead duck.

They don't even do the suicide squeeze or safety squeeze with runner on 3rd (bunt).
I think I would try that more.

 

[leftwinger]

Here's another thing, unrelated to the shift, since we have some baseball minds here........

Say an offense has decent runners on the corners with less than two outs. Runner at 1B takes off on the pitch. Upon seeing the catcher throw to 2B, shouldn't that runner on third automatically break for the plate?

You see it once in a while and it seems to always work. Ball's gotta go P to C to 2B and back to C. That should be enough time for anybody. I think Ryan Howard could make it. We should see this more often. Whether the first runner gets thrown out or not, you have a run.

I agree and the runner on first can try to take out the guy covering second
Takes perfect timing and throws to get the guy out at the plate

Only problem is if the catcher acts like he is throwing to second and throws to the pitcher as a cut off

That would be the only defense. The answer to it is the runner on third doesn't break until he sees the ball pass the pitcher which I think leaves plenty of time. You'd need a lightning-quick relay and a perfect throw on both ends to get him so I like the chances.

Of course OTOH... if I'm the catcher, what I might do as a countermeasure is to throw to third instead of second. Might catch the guy off the base like a pickoff, and he won't be expecting it. Of course --- you signal that play in advance and you work on it in spring training.

See, this is why smallball is more interesting. More different things can happen.

I have seen a LOT of MLB over the years and I have NEVER seen the Pitcher cut that throw off? Anybody? No way that is happening? Anybody? Only in Softball or trick play in lower or little league?

 

[leftwinger]

You arent a great hitter if you hit the ball to same spot most of the time......

Deep...man... But back to reality, "small ball" is the punch and judy approach that died for good reason back in the 1960's because Americans like HOME RUNS... Babe Ruth once said homerun hitters drive Cadillacs, singles hitters drive Chevys. Spray hitters are a dime a dozen....pitchers have no fear of them because they can dictate where and how the weak hitters make contact. I know the "small ball" gives the socialists in this thread little woodies, but the average fan wants to see OFFENSE not bunts, flares, and dribblers....that's candyass and irritating same as their politics. My OP is very specific about what I want to see in the future....My first time at Tiger Stadium (then called Briggs Stadium) was in 1959 just as the new era was peeking through....two years later Maris and Mantle vied all summer to see if one of them would break the Babe's record of 60 HRs and Maris did. Mick, a switch-hitter, finished with 54 and a leg injury. The country was enthralled with them. Both pull-hitters, which is the ultimate skill in baseball....nobody used 4 outfielders then and shouldn't be allowed to now...it's UNamerican.

Whitey Ball in STL was in the 80s' Hugely popular.......don't ask me why it "died out". Walk, SB, bunt, SACFly 1-0
Needed too many good pitchers to play 1-run games 162 times?

 

[leftwinger]

Btw way perusing team stats I've never seen such a collection of ne'erdowells in my entire life.
The KC World SEries team was a joke on the public. One of the most pathetic collection of hiiters ever called champions. Couldnt hit for avg....couldnt hit HRs.....

Do you mean the recent KC teams with Cain, Gordon, Moose, Perez, Hosmer etc. That team was loaded? With Nasty boys in BP. It was a 5 or 6 inning game. No one scored late on those Royals. Now they lost that BP.....back to "normal". Within an micro-inch of winning 2-in-a-row.

Bochy got SF three titles with only 1-2 good bats. Tremendous job. Maybe the best manager of all time to accomplish what he did with that lineup. Maybe it was all Righetti?

 

[dani67]

baseball is bullshit

Yeah, we know in Iran you'd rather hit women with bats than baseballs.

are you saying american like baseball because they cant hit their wife because of law ?

 

[Papageorgio]

You arent a great hitter if you hit the ball to same spot most of the time......

Deep...man... But back to reality, "small ball" is the punch and judy approach that died for good reason back in the 1960's because Americans like HOME RUNS... Babe Ruth once said homerun hitters drive Cadillacs, singles hitters drive Chevys. Spray hitters are a dime a dozen....pitchers have no fear of them because they can dictate where and how the weak hitters make contact. I know the "small ball" gives the socialists in this thread little woodies, but the average fan wants to see OFFENSE not bunts, flares, and dribblers....that's candyass and irritating same as their politics. My OP is very specific about what I want to see in the future....My first time at Tiger Stadium (then called Briggs Stadium) was in 1959 just as the new era was peeking through....two years later Maris and Mantle vied all summer to see if one of them would break the Babe's record of 60 HRs and Maris did. Mick, a switch-hitter, finished with 54 and a leg injury. The country was enthralled with them. Both pull-hitters, which is the ultimate skill in baseball....nobody used 4 outfielders then and shouldn't be allowed to now...it's UNamerican.

Whitey Ball in STL was in the 80s' Hugely popular.......don't ask me why it "died out". Walk, SB, bunt, SACFly 1-0
Needed too many good pitchers to play 1-run games 162 times?

I love that type of game, college ball still has that mentality. One run at a time. It's a lot of fun to watch. I watched the NAIA World Series and it was really entertaining. Except near the end of the tournament they were running out of pitchers.

 

[Tom Horn]

are you saying american like baseball because they cant hit their wife because of law ?

I'm saying none of you raghead punks could whip your wife in a fistfight so you gang-jump them with clubs and helmets like the cowards you are. I kinda hope you do shoot a nuke at Israel....after they shoot it down, they'll turn your pervert kingdom into a carpet of black glass.