I Have A Question For Republicans

[JoeNormal]

And that's why liberals struggle. Lack of attention to detail. So what you mean, mean what you say.

Lack of attention to detail...

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

The political beliefs of the GOP bring to mind the scatology spattered floors of a 1950 s gas station in a god forsaken road side spot in Fort Stinkendesert...

 

[CrusaderFrank]

When Bill Clinton left a balanced budget with surpluses in line to completely eliminate the national debt by 2012, why did George W. Bush slash tax rates for the rich and double the debt from $5.7 trillion to nearly $12 trillion?

When Newt...

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

And that's why liberals struggle. Lack of attention to detail. So what you mean, mean what you say.

• 
  Chuck Todd: Donald Trump "Has Contradicted Every Single Attack He's Made On The Clintons"
• 
  David Gregory: Trump "Is Speaking To Conspiracy-Minded People Who Are Not Based In Reality"
  

 

[JoeNormal]

It absolutely would have had the American people not given Barack Obama one of the biggest political ass-kickings in American history. They turned their cities, counties, and states over to conservatives (especially Tea Party conservatives) in record numbers. They all turn the House over to the Republicans. They later turned the Senate over to Republicans. It sure as hell wasn't because Obama and the Dumbocrats were doing a bang up job.

Unfortunately for your argument there is a recorded recession for 2008, it was way more than a mere market correction, a market correction would not bleed a hundred thousand jobs a month for a year. None of this would have happened unless Alan Greenspan was convinced that paying down the debt would cause the Federal Reserve to lose control over monetary policy, it is why he convinced George Bush to cut taxes to the wealthy to increase the debt.

Economists were definitely worried about the effect of paying off the debt there was even a secret report they circulated like drums beating the bush http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2011/10/20/LifeAfterDebt.pdf

How is that political asskicking doing today in Kansas, Wisconsin and Oklahoma? don't get too comfortable, it was Governor Moonbeam of California that showed everyone how a successful economy is ran by raising taxes. raising wages, and creating safe working laws, California is once again the world's sixth most powerful economy.

The Republican revolution was a grand failure, they didn't create jobs, didn't correct the infrastructure, made no improvements that citizens could point to, I expect in 2018 you will eat your word and the people will rush to the polls to throw the bums out.

Except California has a nearly 400 billion dollar debt. Pesky I know

Not pesky at all. California's debt is getting retired quickly and responsibly. Meanwhile California remains a financial juggernaut providing the GDP to make paying down a reality, not like Kansas, one step from bankruptcy because of Tea Party austerity.

According to Huffington, the states with the worst debt problems are California, New York, Texas, New Jersey, and Illinois. Kansas doesn't make their top 10.

Mark

You didn't source your claim so I have no way to know what date that was published. That said, California is back on an economic roll, higher taxes, higher wages, and a fully integrated system of business regulation have allowed California to remain the sixth most dynamic business engine in the world. The debt is being retired and unemployment has hit a new low. Life is good in the Golden state.

They started taxing the rich again. And since people actually want to live in California, they didn't all bolt.

 

[nat4900]

You just made my point and you are too stupid to realize it.

what do you think drives up labor costs if not unions and taxes?

You libs never cease to amaze with your ignorance.

A response worthy of a 5 year old.......So, moron, if you were to take away taxes and unions, what would be the hourly wage of an American steel worker??? ...and would that hourly wage be like the $2,00 that a Chinese worker gets?

You dimwitted right wingers really want to DESTROY the middle class.....UNIONS made up the middle class and avoided an all-out PLUTOCRACY.......(look up what that means........imbecile....LOL)

 

[JoeNormal]

Rottweiler, I've listened to your staccato like repeat of conservative drivel yet you still haven't answered the question I posed almost 12 hours ago. That tells me that if you were to accidentally swallow a laxative we can all safely bet that in a very short period of time you will simply disappear.

All one has to do to prove you completely wrong is look at the last 80 years years of economic history. It's very simple to see what party leads and what party follows and obstructs. All you do is recycle demonstrable falsehoods and attempt to run them by us as fact. Your narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. You treat the opposition as some sort of mindless lunatics and try to bully people into submission to your own version of stupidity. A famous man once said we may be entitled to our own opinion but we are not entitled to our own version of the facts. It is worthwhile to lay down your sword and explore the facts, you actually might learn something.

I agree with you. The Democrats have had their way for at least 60 years, possibly more. However, as with any "free lunch" I feel that our time at the trough is almost over.

That is the problem with liberalism. As it snowballs, the debt escalates and crumbles the country. Its allure is that we can live well while saddling our children with our debt.

Until we can't anymore. Ask Greece what our future looks like.

Mark

We live in a country that won two World Wars and did it in 4 years, we once led the world in economic growth and blazed the way in science, technology and the arts. We had a president who challenged us to send a man to the moon in ten years and we shined doing it.

Now we are told by conservatives that we cannot live beyond our means to live as well as we did 47 years ago. In the process we became divided over this issue with conservatives demanding more money in their pockets and that wealth would trickle down and build a prosperous society. Well that never happened and if you bring it up every spin in the country won't allow it to be brought front and center where it belongs. Conservatives swore that their economic policy would work for everyone and now 35 years later we are still waiting for them to work.

Reagan's, debt, George H.W. Bush's debt, Bill Clinton's debt and George W. Bush's debt is what has fouled this country, yet conservatives want to lay it on the back of Obama. It must be painful to bury your head in the sand but there you are.

Now their answer is austerity, austerity, austerity. This in spite of the fact that technology, automation and process improvements have boosted our efficiency by about 3x over that time period. Once AI fully kicks in, there will really be no need to think in terms of scarcity unless those at the top continue to horde the abundance that will be produced.

 

[JoeNormal]

On steel, the steel industry (and the textile industry, shipbuilding industry, electronics industry) left this country for two reasons------------unions and taxes.

Moronic.....(as usual) ........Those industries left this country because the same labor force could be payed "slave" wages with NO benefits or job security. It was not because of unions or taxes....only an idiot would come up with that "conclusion"......and here you are fishbreath.....LOL

You just made my point and you are too stupid to realize it.

what do you think drives up labor costs if not unions and taxes?

You libs never cease to amaze with your ignorance.

You cannot possibly be this fucking stupid. There must be some mistake.

 

[nat4900]

You cannot possibly be this fucking stupid. There must be some mistake.

In "defense" of Fishbreath................YES, he is THAT fucking stipid. LOL

 

[Juan de Fuca]

Rottweiler, I've listened to your staccato like repeat of conservative drivel yet you still haven't answered the question I posed almost 12 hours ago. That tells me that if you were to accidentally swallow a laxative we can all safely bet that in a very short period of time you will simply disappear.

All one has to do to prove you completely wrong is look at the last 80 years years of economic history. It's very simple to see what party leads and what party follows and obstructs. All you do is recycle demonstrable falsehoods and attempt to run them by us as fact. Your narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. You treat the opposition as some sort of mindless lunatics and try to bully people into submission to your own version of stupidity. A famous man once said we may be entitled to our own opinion but we are not entitled to our own version of the facts. It is worthwhile to lay down your sword and explore the facts, you actually might learn something.

I agree with you. The Democrats have had their way for at least 60 years, possibly more. However, as with any "free lunch" I feel that our time at the trough is almost over.

That is the problem with liberalism. As it snowballs, the debt escalates and crumbles the country. Its allure is that we can live well while saddling our children with our debt.

Until we can't anymore. Ask Greece what our future looks like.

Mark

We live in a country that won two World Wars and did it in 4 years, we once led the world in economic growth and blazed the way in science, technology and the arts. We had a president who challenged us to send a man to the moon in ten years and we shined doing it.

Now we are told by conservatives that we cannot live beyond our means to live as well as we did 47 years ago. In the process we became divided over this issue with conservatives demanding more money in their pockets and that wealth would trickle down and build a prosperous society. Well that never happened and if you bring it up every spin in the country won't allow it to be brought front and center where it belongs. Conservatives swore that their economic policy would work for everyone and now 35 years later we are still waiting for them to work.

Reagan's, debt, George H.W. Bush's debt, Bill Clinton's debt and George W. Bush's debt is what has fouled this country, yet conservatives want to lay it on the back of Obama. It must be painful to bury your head in the sand but there you are.

That is the biggest crock of crap ever and you know it. We don't have a revenue problem - we have a spending problem. Revenues to the federal government the past few years have hit $4 trillion dollars. Only a measly $600 billion of that goes to defense. Over $1 trillion goes to unconstitutional social nonsense.

Reagan's economic policies were the most successful in world history. And Democrats desperately want to pretend like they failed. Not only that - but they want to talk about "debt" under Reagan. The only reason there was deficit spending under Reagan was due to the fact that he had to rebuild the entire U.S. military which had been decimated by immature idealist Jimmy Carter.

The same thing awaits the next U.S. President after immature idealist Obama decimated our military as well. It's a vicious cycle of conservatives trying to clean up the mess created by Dmeocrats.

I try not to demean anyone when they engage me in a conversation even if it is spirited one, but your statement that "Reagan's economic policies were the most successful in world history." are delusional and to not reflect anything close to reality.

The Reagan era was one of the most prolific deficit spenders in our nations history. Government spending massively reached new highs and a lot of it was squandered on failed projects. He expanded government by creating new agencies and hiring 500,000 more government workers.He expanded Medicare, the F.B.I., the C.I.A., and the D.I.A. He won his election in 1980 partly because of Jimmy Carter's running up the deficit by $79 billion, yet Reagan left office and his deficit was $155 billion higher. At least Jimmy Carter had the excuse of dealing with a recession, Ronald Reagan was running deficits during a time of economic growth.

Also, your claim that Obama has decimated the military is completely false, silly even. The claim that Jimmy Carter decimated the military in four years is foolish on its face. Conservative rags conveniently forget to include the money spent on veteran benefits and the fact that some military expenditures are now assumed by Homeland Security. You can independently verify that here No, the Military Has Not Withered Away Under Obama

I voted for Ronald Reagan and by the end of his first term I realized what a huge mistake I had made. He was possibly the most overrated president in American history.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

it all about the reserve currency. Everything is traded and based in US dollars, not Venezuela dollars or Zimabwes dollar. The world economy runs on US dollars, and again, we are the only ones who make em.

Everything is traded in US dollars...until it isn't. The "value" of money is in the eye of the beholder. Too much debt will cause those to rely on stability to look elsewhere. Several credit rating agencies around the world have downgraded their credit ratings of the US dollar already.

I suspect that every great power on earth figured it "wouldn't happen to them"...until it did.

Mark

Of course they did, and eventually they all failed. It's a fact about fiat currency, it always ends bad, and virtually all major countries and most of Europe deal in Fiat currency now. Good luck guessing when it will all come crashing down.

You were asking "what is wrong with having debt"? Have we just answered that question?

Mark

We have confirmed what I already thought, that is, it doesn't matter until it does matter, and nobody knows when that will happen.

I agree. But what we both should b able to agree on, is that the mounting debt makes it more likely that that day will happen.

Mark

Yep, it will happen, but folks have been predicting it for decades, and so far nobody has been right.

 

[Juan de Fuca]

When Bill Clinton left a balanced budget with surpluses in line to completely eliminate the national debt by 2012, why did George W. Bush slash tax rates for the rich and double the debt from $5.7 trillion to nearly $12 trillion?

When Newt...

Yes, Crusader Frank, Newt Gingrich should not be begrudged his place in history balancing the budget. But it wouldn't even exist if Clinton hadn't signed it.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

When Bill Clinton left a balanced budget with surpluses in line to completely eliminate the national debt by 2012, why did George W. Bush slash tax rates for the rich and double the debt from $5.7 trillion to nearly $12 trillion?

When Newt...

Yes, Crusader Frank, Newt Gingrich should not be begrudged his place in history balancing the budget. But it wouldn't even exist if Clinton hadn't signed it.

Agreed, they had a good Reagan/O'Neill working relationship where they could put Party aside and do what's best for the country. None of them ever said "elections have consequences. we won"

 

[80zephyr]

All the spin in the world will never negate the fact that Bush and republican majority congress/senate cut taxes while increasing spending like crazy. They also hid Iraq/Afghanistan war debt off the books, and Obama put it back on like a responsible person would. These are facts.

Feel free to criticize Obama all you want about his handling of the debt but the fact remains your supposed fiscally responsible republicans during the Bush era were just as bad or worse. In fact that's why the tea party started, to stop the irresponsible spending in your own party.

Just admit Bush and the republicans back then sucked ass, you have changed, and move on.

Explain just how they "hid" the war debt? Does the government have a slush fund somewhere that the people don't know about?

Mark

 

[80zephyr]

They also hid Iraq/Afghanistan war debt off the books, and Obama put it back on like a responsible person would. These are facts.

If that is true - I applaud and salute Obama in a big way. However, do you have anything of substance to back up that claim?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/20/us/politics/20budget.html?_r=0

Have you read your link?

Mark

 

[80zephyr]

I always get a kick out of the liberal false bravado. They always try to talk themselves into winning elections. Unfortunately for them, there words to decide elections.

As far as the rest of your nonsense - it's very difficult to create jobs under Barack Obama's unconstitutional marxist anti-jobs regulations. The "infrastructure" (as libtards love to say because they feel "smart" saying that word ) is just fine, thank you. I drove on roads every day. I drink water every day. I use electricity every day. Libtards love the term "infrastructure" because they Dumbocrat talking point about the economy is "infrastructure". They can't figure out something else to claim they will do to improve the economy since they raise taxes and devastate businesses with costly, crushing regulations.

The citizens are thrilled across the country that conservatives states (like Scott Walker in Wisconsin, John Kasich in Ohio, and Rick Snyder of Michigan) have corrected devastating state deficits created by tax and spend and spend and spend Dumbocrats. They are thrilled that some of those states have implemented income-tax-free states. They are thrilled that some of the states have passed "Right to Work" laws that prevent the sick coercive unions from forcing them into unions against their will. They are thrilled that many states have defunded Planned Parenthood - causing many to close all across conservative states.

We could go on all day about the failures of Dumbocrat policies and the resounding success of conservative policy but this is actually getting boring at this point. It's so obvious it's like debating whether air and water exists. They are so self-evident that it gets to be absurd posting about it.

All the metrics say your argument is wrong. Michigan falls in the middle of the road in economic rankings, Ohio's weekly take home wage was below the national average, Wisconsin is in the middle also still not coming close to the promise Scott Walker made to bring 250,000 jobs by the end of his first term. Michigan is wallowing in the same ranking and is just treading water. Your argument is not persuasive at all.

Typical libtard nonsense. Ohio's cost of living is considerably lower than California's - so their "take home wage" doesn't need to be inflated. A 1,200 sq ft home doesn't cost $780,000 like it does in California. In Ohio, you build a 4,000 sq ft home for $400,000. You're trying to compare apples to wrenches because the facts prove that the Dumbocrat ideology is a failed ideology.

Furthermore, the American people to elect these conservatives to raise wages. They elected them to prevent their states from going bankrupt because the tax and spend and spend and spend Dumbocrats had spent states into collapse just like the Dumbocrats have done to the federal government with their $19 trillion debt. This is why a hard-core liberal state like Wisconsin finally accepted the fact that liberalism is a failed ideology and turned their state over to conservatives. Scott Walker built a $1 billion per year surplus. Their tax income so greatly exceeded their expenses that Walker cut both income tax and property tax. So the states liabilities are not only met in full, but the people have a lot more money in their pockets. It's they typical win-win of conservative policy:

Despite $1 billion surplus, group says Scott Walker raising state deficit while borrowing is at record high

You fail to recognize that $19 now $20 trillion debt is for interest and debt service on George Bush's tax cuts, Iraq War, and Medicare Part D all not paid for.

Obama care isn't "paid for" either. Matter of fact, I can't think of a single government program enacted in the past 70+ years that has been fully funded.

Whats your point?

Mark

My point is that we are in the debt position we are in because of Republican policy. It was Alan Greenspan who convinced George Bush to create debt via tax cuts, the Iraq War and Medicare Part D. The Federal Reserve was deathly afraid they would lose control over tax policy once we eliminated debt in this country.

Policies instituted before Bush was president started us on our debt creation. EVERY president adds his costs to our budget as well. If you fault Bush for these things, do you also hold Obama accountable for signing Obamacare into law when we all know it will add to our debt?

Mark

 

[Juan de Fuca]

All the spin in the world will never negate the fact that Bush and republican majority congress/senate cut taxes while increasing spending like crazy. They also hid Iraq/Afghanistan war debt off the books, and Obama put it back on like a responsible person would. These are facts.

Feel free to criticize Obama all you want about his handling of the debt but the fact remains your supposed fiscally responsible republicans during the Bush era were just as bad or worse. In fact that's why the tea party started, to stop the irresponsible spending in your own party.

Just admit Bush and the republicans back then sucked ass, you have changed, and move on.

Explain just how they "hid" the war debt? Does the government have a slush fund somewhere that the people don't know about?

Mark

The use of supplemental and emergency appropriations kept it from being included in the Pentagon budget and therefore not subject to congressional scrutiny. They also used deficit spending to keep it from public scrutiny, the Social Security Trust Fund was raided often to keep the war effort going and was approved by Republican and Democratic war hawks in congress. The Bush administration was sure that the war would cost only $50 or $60 billion and that the removal of Saddam would make them hero's. When factoring long term costs for care of the injured, the bill could go as high as $6 trillion for the war effort.

 

[P@triot]

You just made my point and you are too stupid to realize it.

what do you think drives up labor costs if not unions and taxes?

You libs never cease to amaze with your ignorance.

A response worthy of a 5 year old.......So, moron, if you were to take away taxes and unions, what would be the hourly wage of an American steel worker??? ...and would that hourly wage be like the $2,00 that a Chinese worker gets?

You dimwitted right wingers really want to DESTROY the middle class.....UNIONS made up the middle class and avoided an all-out PLUTOCRACY.......(look up what that means........imbecile....LOL)

More endless projection from liberals. Always taking their worst flaws and accusing everyone else of them. Tell me something - if conservatives want to destroy the middle class - why is it that the middle class exploded under Ronald Reagan and was decimated under Barack Obama?

 

[80zephyr]

Still waiting for you to answer. I said I would answer that when you would answer my question. You haven't. Because you can't.

You're deflecting, I asked the question first.

I'm not "deflecting" at all. Your question is built on a false premise (it's like asking "why do you beat your wife" - I'm not beating my wife so the question is nonsensical). My question brings your question back from a false premise - which is why you want no part of it. I can't say I blame you under the circumstances. You have an agenda to push a failed ideology. I wouldn't want any part of my question either if that was my agenda.

Deflecting, you're not even trying to answer. The U.S. is number 5 in the standard of living, there must be a country that proves conservative economic policy works.

In which countries do liberal policies work? I would say that the majority of the countries on earth have went the way of "liberal policy". And every one is now suffering from debt. We have the PIIGS(Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain) Japan(which is bankrupt yet nobody will "pull the plug') because of what it will do to the world economy, etc...

Mark

The single most dangerous conservative economic thought is that the market, no matter how diverse, threatened, or open to monopoly can correct itself. Without regulation markets become free for all brawls. Every single time producers will try to tie up their sector to manipulate it for their personal aggrandizement then exploit it like they did in 1929, 1987, and 2002. Donald Trump himself said he was drooling over the 2008 economic crisis looking at with a view to a kill not about the harm it was doing the nation.

I have a different theory. As government grows, it is imperative or business to infiltrate it to protect itself. Business wasn't to concerned with government until government became so large as to threaten business, then they became involved.

Now, business uses government to choose winners and losers, and protect themselves by writing laws to squash competition.

It is also my belief that economies suffer ups and downs on a regular basis, and that the downs are the mechanism that keeps economies from overheating.

One last thing. Just who is it that you know that is so brilliant that they should be the ones to regulate our economy? God already has a job.

Mark

 

[80zephyr]

The problem with your statement is that America isn't so great anymore.

Exactly. Once the rise of the cancer known as liberalism began in the early 1900's, the decline of America began. You continue to prove that everything I've been saying is correct. We need to return to the principles that this country was founded on in 1776. There was no social security. There was no Medicare or Medicaid. There was no Obamacare. Those are all Dumbocrat socialist policies that have drastically dragged down the U.S.

LOL, That's possibly the dumbest statement I have seen since I started reading forums on the Internet in 1992. We have seen what conservative economic policy has done to states like Kansas, Wisconsin and Oklahoma, they wallow in debt and inconvenience, they suffer from the grandest stupidity. Conservatives have brought nothing to our national predicament except the loss of money, jobs, security and promise.

I live in Wisconsin. I am 61 and have never lived anywhere else. Personally, I am not seeing what you are describing.

Mark

Wisconsin is one of only seven states without a rainy day fund. In crafting an economic policy Governor Walker took $250 million dollars from the Unversity of Wisconsin so he could make his books seem 'normal'. Wisconsin is very close to the edge while appearing normal. A simple mistake could collapse this house of cards.

Who would you rather be, Wisconsin or Illinois?

Mark