I Have A Question For Republicans

[Dale Smith]

Why was the depression of 1921 over so quickly? It was definitely as drastic as the Great Depression of 1929.

The birth of the roaring 20's.

I will bet you a dime to a dollar that you have no clue as to what the"roaring 20's" were about and what caused the crash in 1929, who benefitted from it and why it lasted as long as it did...........

Well you would be wrong and if you want to debate it I would be happy to somewhere else like the clean debate zone.

Debating it here is just fine.........so what caused the crash of 1929 in your opinion?

I think I just got done telling you where I would debate, and it isn't on this thread.

No need to go to another thread. I will not insult...no need to do so because I know my shit and it's irrefutable.

 

[Juan de Fuca]

What is happening in the Democratic party is every bit as interesting as what is happening in the Republican party. New parties and new ideas are being forged and the next five years should be very interesting. I have no way of knowing just hoe far each will be pushed or how they will react, but what we end up with will be very interesting indeed.

I can tell you exactly where we will end up if we don't restore constitutional government. A North Korean nanny-state. Devoid of rights and privacy. We're about 75% of the way there already. Did you see where New York City made it a crime to not spread a lie? The government had deemed that a person can choose their gender even though that is scientifically decided by chromosomes. Well, in New York City, if a business owner (such as a landlord) calls a person by their biological gender rather than the gender desired by the person with the mental illness, they will be charged with a crime. In other words, by law, the landlord must deny science and reality and propagate a lie. That is some scary shit right there. That is vintage George Orwell 1984.

I think about 500 years ago they called you guys flat earthers. Maybe you should take up sewing.

 

[Juan de Fuca]

The birth of the roaring 20's.

I will bet you a dime to a dollar that you have no clue as to what the"roaring 20's" were about and what caused the crash in 1929, who benefitted from it and why it lasted as long as it did...........

Well you would be wrong and if you want to debate it I would be happy to somewhere else like the clean debate zone.

Debating it here is just fine.........so what caused the crash of 1929 in your opinion?

I think I just got done telling you where I would debate, and it isn't on this thread.

No need to go to another thread. I will not insult...no need to do so because I know my shit and it's irrefutable.

Then debate alone.

 

[Dale Smith]

I will bet you a dime to a dollar that you have no clue as to what the"roaring 20's" were about and what caused the crash in 1929, who benefitted from it and why it lasted as long as it did...........

Well you would be wrong and if you want to debate it I would be happy to somewhere else like the clean debate zone.

Debating it here is just fine.........so what caused the crash of 1929 in your opinion?

I think I just got done telling you where I would debate, and it isn't on this thread.

No need to go to another thread. I will not insult...no need to do so because I know my shit and it's irrefutable.

Then debate alone.

What are you afraid of?????

 

[Juan de Fuca]

Well you would be wrong and if you want to debate it I would be happy to somewhere else like the clean debate zone.

Debating it here is just fine.........so what caused the crash of 1929 in your opinion?

I think I just got done telling you where I would debate, and it isn't on this thread.

No need to go to another thread. I will not insult...no need to do so because I know my shit and it's irrefutable.

Then debate alone.

What are you afraid of?????

Nothing at all, I gave you my terms.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Of course they did, and eventually they all failed. It's a fact about fiat currency, it always ends bad, and virtually all major countries and most of Europe deal in Fiat currency now. Good luck guessing when it will all come crashing down.

You were asking "what is wrong with having debt"? Have we just answered that question?

Mark

We have confirmed what I already thought, that is, it doesn't matter until it does matter, and nobody knows when that will happen.

I agree. But what we both should b able to agree on, is that the mounting debt makes it more likely that that day will happen.

Mark

Yep, it will happen, but folks have been predicting it for decades, and so far nobody has been right.

During our last depression, the government had the resources to help the people. If the next depression is caused by government insolvency, do you have any idea what will happen to the American people?

Do you really want to take that chance?

We have had 13 major recessions/depressions since our nation began, so predicting for decades is no big deal.

Mark

Government insolvency? You mean like Greece? We are a long way from that. Despite all our troubles, the US economy is still the gold standard, and thus the greenback is still the reserve currency. Which means the government can borrow as much money as they want from the federal reserve. Yes, rates will go up, but US T - Bills will be the safest bet for a long time.

 

[P@triot]

What is happening in the Democratic party is every bit as interesting as what is happening in the Republican party. New parties and new ideas are being forged and the next five years should be very interesting. I have no way of knowing just hoe far each will be pushed or how they will react, but what we end up with will be very interesting indeed.

I can tell you exactly where we will end up if we don't restore constitutional government. A North Korean nanny-state. Devoid of rights and privacy. We're about 75% of the way there already. Did you see where New York City made it a crime to not spread a lie? The government had deemed that a person can choose their gender even though that is scientifically decided by chromosomes. Well, in New York City, if a business owner (such as a landlord) calls a person by their biological gender rather than the gender desired by the person with the mental illness, they will be charged with a crime. In other words, by law, the landlord must deny science and reality and propagate a lie. That is some scary shit right there. That is vintage George Orwell 1984.

I think about 500 years ago they called you guys flat earthers. Maybe you should take up sewing.

More liberal projection. My friend....you're the one denying medical science. You're the "flat earther". We accept the scientific reality that chromosomes decided a gender and not mental illness.

 

[80zephyr]

What is the one branch of medicine where improvements are being made and costs are going down? Laser eye surgery. Since laser surgery is generally not covered by insurance, competition drives prices down while improving the product. Mark

Bingo! Because government subsidization causes prices to skyrocket. A simple, indisputable reality...

Its not only government. If you get into a fender bender and take your car to a body shop, before they give you a quote they ask you whether you have insurance or not. You see, they charge insurance companies more, although they would never admit it.

Mark

Well that's not entirely true. Some of that has to do with the business agreements that the repair shops and the insurance companies have entered into. The repair shops get consistent business and in return, the insurance companies get reduced costs. It just like health insurance and hospitals.

Not been my experience. Body shop estimates go way up when they know an insurance company is paying.

Mark

 

[80zephyr]

Obama care isn't "paid for" either. Matter of fact, I can't think of a single government program enacted in the past 70+ years that has been fully funded.

Whats your point?

Mark

My point is that we are in the debt position we are in because of Republican policy. It was Alan Greenspan who convinced George Bush to create debt via tax cuts, the Iraq War and Medicare Part D. The Federal Reserve was deathly afraid they would lose control over tax policy once we eliminated debt in this country.

Policies instituted before Bush was president started us on our debt creation. EVERY president adds his costs to our budget as well. If you fault Bush for these things, do you also hold Obama accountable for signing Obamacare into law when we all know it will add to our debt?

Mark

The ACA is an expensive problem but the cost of not doing something was much greater. Most people can agree that a healthy nation is a productive nation and it is a heavy burden to just let people die without trying to do something to correct it. We can certainly move back to where we were pre ACA but where is the benefit in that? What do you say when we end up spending even more money than the ACA costs dealing with rising future healthcare costs?[/QUOTE]

Not gonna happen.

Mark

Let me ask you what is the alternative? Do we allow ourselves to become so callous we just let old and young sick people die?

If we try to take care of everyone, our country will collapse. Which choice is preferable to you?

Mark

 

[80zephyr]

Let me ask you what is the alternative? Do we allow ourselves to become so callous we just let old and young sick people die?

Juan de Fuca - it's imperative that you read this slowly and understand it thoroughly...

"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all." -Frédéric Bastiat

Andrew Wilkow has his own version of this - (and I'm paraphrasing a bit here): "with liberals, the choice is either centralized planning or nihilism". In other words, liberals believe if the federal government doesn't control everything, we couldn't possibly survive. The fact that you just said "what is the alternative?" is astounding. The alternatives are endless. None better than taking the passion that liberals have around socialism and funneling them into foundations in the free market to address these socials needs. Those nerds are met, we maintain a Constitutional government, and both conservatives and liberals are genuinely happy.

The death of fellow citizens to me isn't an option and if Conservatives truly felt that way what are we doing arguing over abortion? I've heard the various arguments over churches and charity stepping up to the bat but all examinations of those experiments show failure, what then? I have yet to see your idea put to work, what have conservatives been doing for the last five years? Please point me to examples of those experiments to prove they are worthy of replacing government health, where are they?

How do you think people survived in the 1950's and 1960's?

Mark

 

[bripat9643]

When Bill Clinton left a balanced budget with surpluses in line to completely eliminate the national debt by 2012, why did George W. Bush slash tax rates for the rich and double the debt from $5.7 trillion to nearly $12 trillion?

The economy was on a downturn when clinton was leaving office.

I know every gop comeback. This one was predictable.

Is "comeback" a liberal euphemism for "facts?"

 

[80zephyr]

Please point me to examples of those experiments to prove they are worthy of replacing government health, where are they?

We're not. But according to you liberals - your hearts bleed around the clock for those so less fortunate. If that's the case, you liberals are worthy. Something tells me many of you are paralyzed with fear that this would prove you're not as worthy and you don't care as much as you'd like people to believe.

I will not paint all Democrats the same, just as I would not paint all Republicans with the same brush. It is the true believer that slows progress and keeps the parties from negotiating like they once did. America is great because our ancestors weren't afraid to talk and negotiate, and hammer out compromises. These days it is something that will get you removed from the building, and labeled a traitor. It isn't the Democrats afraid to come to the table and frankly that is something you're going to have to come to terms with.

Why would Democrats be afraid to come to the table? They have been winning for years. They have welfare, social security, food stamps, Obamacare, abortion, gay marriage, and on and on and on.

You know why they got all those things? Because conservatives negotiated with them. For decades. Tell me, what have conservatives got in return? Where did the left EVER say, "enough is enough"?

Never.

Conservatives have learned that it is impossible to negotiate with the left. They keep getting what they want, and we keep getting the shaft.

And finally, when a non PC guy like Trump tells the truth, the left has protests against him, and he's not even president yet.

If I were a lefty, I'd be damn happy I got away with this as long as they did.

Hopefully, ITS THEIR TURN TO NEGOTIATE.

Mark

 

[Juan de Fuca]

My point is that we are in the debt position we are in because of Republican policy. It was Alan Greenspan who convinced George Bush to create debt via tax cuts, the Iraq War and Medicare Part D. The Federal Reserve was deathly afraid they would lose control over tax policy once we eliminated debt in this country.

Policies instituted before Bush was president started us on our debt creation. EVERY president adds his costs to our budget as well. If you fault Bush for these things, do you also hold Obama accountable for signing Obamacare into law when we all know it will add to our debt?

Mark

The ACA is an expensive problem but the cost of not doing something was much greater. Most people can agree that a healthy nation is a productive nation and it is a heavy burden to just let people die without trying to do something to correct it. We can certainly move back to where we were pre ACA but where is the benefit in that? What do you say when we end up spending even more money than the ACA costs dealing with rising future healthcare costs?[/QUOTE]

Not gonna happen.

Mark

Let me ask you what is the alternative? Do we allow ourselves to become so callous we just let old and young sick people die?

If we try to take care of everyone, our country will collapse. Which choice is preferable to you?

Mark

I don't like extremes of anything Mark, I do think we can do better with whatever type of government we choose to live under. I also think the fear interjected into the argument is wrong-headed. No one is saying we are going to become a purely Socialist country.

We can work smarter, we can reduce government and translate those benefits into a stream lined economy, I think we can expect certain departments to work smarter, the Department of Defense is a very good place to start cleaning up waste and redundant programs, I think we can get rid of the Department of Education, I think we should rethink the TSA, and the NSA, spying on citizens domestically does not end well.There are many other ways to reduce government so that we can afford programs that make the country richer. There was a time when immigrants screamed to come to America for the promise of a better world and it's been a while since we have seen that. I t wasn't long ago graduating from college was a proud event, now it comes with extreme debt, Moving towards a goal of a better, and grander America is a good thing as long as it doesn't get out of control like its big brother Capitalism did just eight years ago.

 

[80zephyr]

it is you who went to the far right corner and I'm surprised you don't see it.

I love this desperate lie by the Democrats. True conservatives sit firmly planted the U.S. Constitution. Which is neither right nor left. It is ground zero - the legal structure of government implemented by our founders. Please tell me how we've moved "right" of that? I'd love to see a single example you could demonstrate. In fact - I'll make you this sincere promise right here and now. If you can give just a single real illustration of how true conservatives have "moved right" of the Constitution - I'll vote Democrat for the rest of my life. Examples of libertarian's, sovereign citizens, and anarchists don't count as they self-identify as not being conservatives but another group entirely.

Show me any true conservative that has suggested we violate the U.S. Constitution by stopping the federal government of one of their 18 emulated powers. I've never heard a conservative suggest that the states should run 50 individual patent offices (maybe a sovereign citizens has - but not a conservative). I've never heard a conservative suggest that the states should coin their own money. Please show me any conservative group (Tea Party, Constitution Party, etc.) that makes such an official (or even unofficial for that matter) part of their platform.

I appreciate your political stand but I hope you understand you don't speak for "all" Republicans. How the Supreme Court has interpreted the document has probably more to do with how we move about the Constitution. Each Party, actually each citizen is free to express to the court their concerns on how the document should be interpreted to protect their own varied interests. That's what makes the document so dynamic and interesting.

It was never supposed to be dynamic or interesting. The founders kept it short,sweet, and explicit, so people would have no trouble understanding what was written.

It was only after liberals understood that they could not live the the document as written that they started "interpreting" it to suit what they wanted.

"On every question of construction carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed."

--Thomas Jefferson to William Johnson, 1823. ME 15:449


Mark

 

[MaryL]

Didn't

When Bill Clinton left a balanced budget with surpluses in line to completely eliminate the national debt by 2012, why did George W. Bush slash tax rates for the rich and double the debt from $5.7 trillion to nearly $12 trillion?

Clinton also deregulated banks, which lead to the meltdown in 08, and that hurt a lot of people. That happened, yes? What world do you live in that THAT didn't effect you?

 

[80zephyr]

Policies instituted before Bush was president started us on our debt creation. EVERY president adds his costs to our budget as well. If you fault Bush for these things, do you also hold Obama accountable for signing Obamacare into law when we all know it will add to our debt?

Mark

The ACA is an expensive problem but the cost of not doing something was much greater. Most people can agree that a healthy nation is a productive nation and it is a heavy burden to just let people die without trying to do something to correct it. We can certainly move back to where we were pre ACA but where is the benefit in that? What do you say when we end up spending even more money than the ACA costs dealing with rising future healthcare costs?[/QUOTE]

Not gonna happen.

Mark

Let me ask you what is the alternative? Do we allow ourselves to become so callous we just let old and young sick people die?

If we try to take care of everyone, our country will collapse. Which choice is preferable to you?

Mark

I don't like extremes of anything Mark, I do think we can do better with whatever type of government we choose to live under. I also think the fear interjected into the argument is wrong-headed. No one is saying we are going to become a purely Socialist country.

We can work smarter, we can reduce government and translate those benefits into a stream lined economy, I think we can expect certain departments to work smarter, the Department of Defense is a very good place to start cleaning up waste and redundant programs, I think we can get rid of the Department of Education, I think we should rethink the TSA, and the NSA, spying on citizens domestically does not end well.There are many other ways to reduce government so that we can afford programs that make the country richer. There was a time when immigrants screamed to come to America for the promise of a better world and it's been a while since we have seen that. I t wasn't long ago graduating from college was a proud event, now it comes with extreme debt, Moving towards a goal of a better, and grander America is a good thing as long as it doesn't get out of control like its big brother Capitalism did just eight years ago.

America was at its best BEFORE we implemented liberal policies. And even if that is the way America chooses to go, then our Constitution has to be amended to allow it.

Mark

 

[80zephyr]

You were asking "what is wrong with having debt"? Have we just answered that question?

Mark

We have confirmed what I already thought, that is, it doesn't matter until it does matter, and nobody knows when that will happen.

I agree. But what we both should b able to agree on, is that the mounting debt makes it more likely that that day will happen.

Mark

Yep, it will happen, but folks have been predicting it for decades, and so far nobody has been right.

During our last depression, the government had the resources to help the people. If the next depression is caused by government insolvency, do you have any idea what will happen to the American people?

Do you really want to take that chance?

We have had 13 major recessions/depressions since our nation began, so predicting for decades is no big deal.

Mark

Government insolvency? You mean like Greece? We are a long way from that. Despite all our troubles, the US economy is still the gold standard, and thus the greenback is still the reserve currency. Which means the government can borrow as much money as they want from the federal reserve. Yes, rates will go up, but US T - Bills will be the safest bet for a long time.

Are we that far removed from the Great Depression that you believe it won't happen here? History is littered with states that believed the same thing you do, with catastrophic results.

In the 1960's, it would have been impossible to imagine the credit rating for our nation being downgraded. And now its happening.

Wake up!!

Mark

 

[Juan de Fuca]

The ACA is an expensive problem but the cost of not doing something was much greater. Most people can agree that a healthy nation is a productive nation and it is a heavy burden to just let people die without trying to do something to correct it. We can certainly move back to where we were pre ACA but where is the benefit in that? What do you say when we end up spending even more money than the ACA costs dealing with rising future healthcare costs?[/QUOTE]

Not gonna happen.

Mark

Let me ask you what is the alternative? Do we allow ourselves to become so callous we just let old and young sick people die?

If we try to take care of everyone, our country will collapse. Which choice is preferable to you?

Mark

I don't like extremes of anything Mark, I do think we can do better with whatever type of government we choose to live under. I also think the fear interjected into the argument is wrong-headed. No one is saying we are going to become a purely Socialist country.

We can work smarter, we can reduce government and translate those benefits into a stream lined economy, I think we can expect certain departments to work smarter, the Department of Defense is a very good place to start cleaning up waste and redundant programs, I think we can get rid of the Department of Education, I think we should rethink the TSA, and the NSA, spying on citizens domestically does not end well.There are many other ways to reduce government so that we can afford programs that make the country richer. There was a time when immigrants screamed to come to America for the promise of a better world and it's been a while since we have seen that. I t wasn't long ago graduating from college was a proud event, now it comes with extreme debt, Moving towards a goal of a better, and grander America is a good thing as long as it doesn't get out of control like its big brother Capitalism did just eight years ago.

America was at its best BEFORE we implemented liberal policies. And even if that is the way America chooses to go, then our Constitution has to be amended to allow it.

Mark

Oh right! Did you forget the Constitution is the very basis of universal human rights? That's is not a conservative leaning at all. It was John Adams, who instituted the first tax so that health care for sailors would be provided. Perhaps you also have forgotten that originally corporations had to be chartered and could only exist for thirty years, and it was the East India Company that caused us to go to war in the first place. Let's not forget the place religion had in the beginning and the message by the Founders was clear that there would be a separation of church and state and we did pretty well by that dictum until religious conservatives got in bed with churches and have encroached religion into the state ever since.

The right in thiss country have been trying to make the Founders their own ever since the Declaration was written its too bad most of those things written in that document came fro a liberal education and is well reflected throughout that document.

 

[P@triot]

Let's not forget the place religion had in the beginning and the message by the Founders was clear that there would be a separation of church and state and we did pretty well by that dictum until religious conservatives got in bed with churches and have encroached religion into the state ever since.

How can we "not forget" something that never happened? I've read the U.S. Constitution top to bottom hundreds of times and never once have I seen "separation of church and state". You can't let liberal propaganda overcome you like that. Do some research. Read the U.S. Constitution. The only thing the founders were concerned about was the state deciding and/or creating a national religion. Never once were they concerned about the people bringing religion into government.

 

[Juan de Fuca]

Let's not forget the place religion had in the beginning and the message by the Founders was clear that there would be a separation of church and state and we did pretty well by that dictum until religious conservatives got in bed with churches and have encroached religion into the state ever since.

How can we "not forget" something that never happened? I've read the U.S. Constitution top to bottom hundreds of times and never once have I seen "separation of church and state". You can't let liberal propaganda overcome you like that. Do some research. Read the U.S. Constitution. The only thing the founders were concerned about was the state deciding and/or creating a national religion. Never once were they concerned about the people bringing religion into government.

It certainly was what the Founders intended

The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries.”
~James Madison

“I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibit the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.”
~Thomas Jefferson, as President, in a letter to the Baptists of Danbury, Connecticut, 1802

And the way the document has been interpreted since.