I like the Idea of God...

[ScienceRocks]

Read the bible and you will see that GOD is one evil piece of shit. Anyone that is good or moral can't worship this god! This god is more evil then the devil could ever be.

 

[ding]

The odds of any one of the three ancient Arab stories from earth that are driving our modern religion being the last Word on THE GOD of The UNIVERSE are slim, eh?

​

Dear AVG-JOE
given that GOD represents infinite things beyond the scope of man,
nobody's depiction is going to capture ALL of GOD literally > that's impossible.
The most we can do is SYMBOLIZE the RELATIONSHIPS.

We can't capture infinity in numbers even if we counted forever.
We can use SYMBOLS
1 + 1 + 1 .....
IN ORDER TO AGREE WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT

That's the most we can, label things so we at least AGREE
what we MEAN.

The laws and languages you list above are for people of
THOSE GROUPS to communicate with each other and
AGREE on points and principles so they operate in unison.

Guess what secular people use? SCIENCE.
we use MATH AND SCIENCE as a common language
to communicate VALUES. RELATIONSHIPS and PROCESS.

So that's all these religions are used to do.
They are relative like French, Spanish, etc. and speak to certain
audiences who share a certain cultural heritage in common.

You are like asking what are the chances of French being a true language or Chinese? None of these languages agree with each other! So what are the chances that they are correct?

Well they all work to speak to a particular audience that
understands and responds to THAT LANGUAGE.

So ALL OF THEM can be used correctly to convey TRUTH
and reach AGREEMENT. They re TOOLS for communicating.

Does that make sense AVG-JOE
Do you like that explanation or do you seek a different one?

I agree that gods are an embodiment of our ignorance.

After all humans have had thousands of gods in our existence each one an embodiment of a particular phenomenon or a group of phenomena of which we had no understanding.

As we became less ignorant we started discarding gods.

Therefore it's only a matter of time before we discard the one that is left.

Discard Him at your own risk. We are hardwired to worship. The only choice we have in the matter is what we choose to worship.

Materialism has been shown to be a failed world view.

Now if you want to do this the Darwinian way, let me tell you that natural selection has two main components; functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation.

As man has always believed in a higher power it would be shortsighted not to credit functional advantage and natural selection for man's persistence in believing in a higher power.

And if we start with this as a premise and go looking for ways that belief in God translated to functional advantage we shouldn't be surprised to find them.

So while blaming belief in God on ignorance may make you feel superior, it is not a very reasonable explanation.

A more reasonable explanation is that man did so because it was to his advantage to do so.

 

[ding]

Read the bible and you will see that GOD is one evil piece of shit. Anyone that is good or moral can't worship this god! This god is more evil then the devil could ever be.

Says you.

The Jews thought He was very loving and caring.

 

[ding]

I will NEVER forget the greatest atrocity of mankind....

Just look at my signature below.

Alexander Solzhenitsyn
“More than half a century ago, while I was still a child, I recall hearing a number of older people offer the following explanation for the great disasters that had befallen Russia: ‘Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has happened.’”

“Since then I have spent well-nigh fifty years working on the history of our Revolution; in the process I have read hundreds of books, collected hundreds of personal testimonies, and have already contributed eight volumes of my own toward the effort of clearing away the rubble left by that upheaval...But if I were asked today to formulate as concisely as possible the main cause of the ruinous Revolution that swallowed up some sixty million of our people, I could not put it more accurately than to repeat: "Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has happened.’”

“Templeton Lecture, May 10, 1983,” in The Solzhenitsyn Reader: New and Essential Writings, 1947-2005, eds. Edward E. Ericson, Jr. and Daniel J. Mahoney (Wilmington, DE: Intercollegiate Studies Institute, 2006), 577

 

[Skull Pilot]

The odds of any one of the three ancient Arab stories from earth that are driving our modern religion being the last Word on THE GOD of The UNIVERSE are slim, eh?

​

Dear AVG-JOE
given that GOD represents infinite things beyond the scope of man,
nobody's depiction is going to capture ALL of GOD literally > that's impossible.
The most we can do is SYMBOLIZE the RELATIONSHIPS.

We can't capture infinity in numbers even if we counted forever.
We can use SYMBOLS
1 + 1 + 1 .....
IN ORDER TO AGREE WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT

That's the most we can, label things so we at least AGREE
what we MEAN.

The laws and languages you list above are for people of
THOSE GROUPS to communicate with each other and
AGREE on points and principles so they operate in unison.

Guess what secular people use? SCIENCE.
we use MATH AND SCIENCE as a common language
to communicate VALUES. RELATIONSHIPS and PROCESS.

So that's all these religions are used to do.
They are relative like French, Spanish, etc. and speak to certain
audiences who share a certain cultural heritage in common.

You are like asking what are the chances of French being a true language or Chinese? None of these languages agree with each other! So what are the chances that they are correct?

Well they all work to speak to a particular audience that
understands and responds to THAT LANGUAGE.

So ALL OF THEM can be used correctly to convey TRUTH
and reach AGREEMENT. They re TOOLS for communicating.

Does that make sense AVG-JOE
Do you like that explanation or do you seek a different one?

I agree that gods are an embodiment of our ignorance.

After all humans have had thousands of gods in our existence each one an embodiment of a particular phenomenon or a group of phenomena of which we had no understanding.

As we became less ignorant we started discarding gods.

Therefore it's only a matter of time before we discard the one that is left.

Discard Him at your own risk. We are hardwired to worship. The only choice we have in the matter is what we choose to worship.

Materialism has been shown to be a failed world view.

Now if you want to do this the Darwinian way, let me tell you that natural selection has two main components; functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation.

As man has always believed in a higher power it would be shortsighted not to credit functional advantage and natural selection for man's persistence in believing in a higher power.

And if we start with this as a premise and go looking for ways that belief in God translated to functional advantage we shouldn't be surprised to find them.

So while blaming belief in God on ignorance may make you feel superior, it is not a very reasonable explanation.

A more reasonable explanation is that man did so because it was to his advantage to do so.

I didn't blame anything I merely agreed with another person who posted that same sentiment.

Evolutionary speaking we discard that which is not advantageous.

For example the little toe.

Man—500,000 Years From Now | Natural History Magazine

We have done away with fertility gods, thunder gods, water gods, and countless others if we take this trend to its logical conclusion we will eventually discard the one that is left.

It may take a million more years but it will happen. All we need to do is to be able to explain to the satisfaction of the masses the 3 major phenomenon that this god embodies. The origin of the universe, the rise of life in the universe and what happens to the energy that powers our bodies and minds after death.

If we can do this there will be no need for any gods anymore.

And rather than being hard wired to worship I thinks it's more that humans hate a mystery and will make up stories to explain them away. When we acquire the knowledge to satisfactorily answer these questions we stop using the story.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Read the bible and you will see that GOD is one evil piece of shit. Anyone that is good or moral can't worship this god! This god is more evil then the devil could ever be.

Says you.

The Jews thought He was very loving and caring.

Yeah so loving and caring he killed lots of people during his temper tantrums

 

[ding]

Read the bible and you will see that GOD is one evil piece of shit. Anyone that is good or moral can't worship this god! This god is more evil then the devil could ever be.

Says you.

The Jews thought He was very loving and caring.

Yeah so loving and caring he killed lots of people during his temper tantrums

You don't believe God exists so you don't believe He did those things but you get a big old hard on to trot out that bullshit.

Are you going to keep wasting my time or what?

 

[ding]

The odds of any one of the three ancient Arab stories from earth that are driving our modern religion being the last Word on THE GOD of The UNIVERSE are slim, eh?

​

Dear AVG-JOE
given that GOD represents infinite things beyond the scope of man,
nobody's depiction is going to capture ALL of GOD literally > that's impossible.
The most we can do is SYMBOLIZE the RELATIONSHIPS.

We can't capture infinity in numbers even if we counted forever.
We can use SYMBOLS
1 + 1 + 1 .....
IN ORDER TO AGREE WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT

That's the most we can, label things so we at least AGREE
what we MEAN.

The laws and languages you list above are for people of
THOSE GROUPS to communicate with each other and
AGREE on points and principles so they operate in unison.

Guess what secular people use? SCIENCE.
we use MATH AND SCIENCE as a common language
to communicate VALUES. RELATIONSHIPS and PROCESS.

So that's all these religions are used to do.
They are relative like French, Spanish, etc. and speak to certain
audiences who share a certain cultural heritage in common.

You are like asking what are the chances of French being a true language or Chinese? None of these languages agree with each other! So what are the chances that they are correct?

Well they all work to speak to a particular audience that
understands and responds to THAT LANGUAGE.

So ALL OF THEM can be used correctly to convey TRUTH
and reach AGREEMENT. They re TOOLS for communicating.

Does that make sense AVG-JOE
Do you like that explanation or do you seek a different one?

I agree that gods are an embodiment of our ignorance.

After all humans have had thousands of gods in our existence each one an embodiment of a particular phenomenon or a group of phenomena of which we had no understanding.

As we became less ignorant we started discarding gods.

Therefore it's only a matter of time before we discard the one that is left.

Discard Him at your own risk. We are hardwired to worship. The only choice we have in the matter is what we choose to worship.

Materialism has been shown to be a failed world view.

Now if you want to do this the Darwinian way, let me tell you that natural selection has two main components; functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation.

As man has always believed in a higher power it would be shortsighted not to credit functional advantage and natural selection for man's persistence in believing in a higher power.

And if we start with this as a premise and go looking for ways that belief in God translated to functional advantage we shouldn't be surprised to find them.

So while blaming belief in God on ignorance may make you feel superior, it is not a very reasonable explanation.

A more reasonable explanation is that man did so because it was to his advantage to do so.

I didn't blame anything I merely agreed with another person who posted that same sentiment.

Evolutionary speaking we discard that which is not advantageous.

For example the little toe.

Man—500,000 Years From Now | Natural History Magazine

We have done away with fertility gods, thunder gods, water gods, and countless others if we take this trend to its logical conclusion we will eventually discard the one that is left.

It may take a million more years but it will happen. All we need to do is to be able to explain to the satisfaction of the masses the 3 major phenomenon that this god embodies. The origin of the universe, the rise of life in the universe and what happens to the energy that powers our bodies and minds after death.

If we can do this there will be no need for any gods anymore.

And rather than being hard wired to worship I thinks it's more that humans hate a mystery and will make up stories to explain them away. When we acquire the knowledge to satisfactorily answer these questions we stop using the story.

And yet here we are 3000 years later and church on every street corner.

I wouldn't hold your breath if I were you. These things are cyclical. Winter is coming. God does His best work in the winter.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Discard Him at your own risk. We are hardwired to worship. The only choice we have in the matter is what we choose to worship.

Materialism has been shown to be a failed world view.

Now if you want to do this the Darwinian way, let me tell you that natural selection has two main components; functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation.

As man has always believed in a higher power it would be shortsighted not to credit functional advantage and natural selection for man's persistence in believing in a higher power.

And if we start with this as a premise and go looking for ways that belief in God translated to functional advantage we shouldn't be surprised to find them.

So while blaming belief in God on ignorance may make you feel superior, it is not a very reasonable explanation.

A more reasonable explanation is that man did so because it was to his advantage to do so.

Like I said... I like the idea of God, I just don't buy the idea that one of the three ancient tales popular today is the final word on such a presence. Now that I view that ancient Arab literature in the light of the reality of the last ten thousand years as literature and nothing more, I like the idea of God even more.

Possibilities ​

 

[ding]

Discard Him at your own risk. We are hardwired to worship. The only choice we have in the matter is what we choose to worship.

Materialism has been shown to be a failed world view.

Now if you want to do this the Darwinian way, let me tell you that natural selection has two main components; functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation.

As man has always believed in a higher power it would be shortsighted not to credit functional advantage and natural selection for man's persistence in believing in a higher power.

And if we start with this as a premise and go looking for ways that belief in God translated to functional advantage we shouldn't be surprised to find them.

So while blaming belief in God on ignorance may make you feel superior, it is not a very reasonable explanation.

A more reasonable explanation is that man did so because it was to his advantage to do so.

Like I said... I like the idea of God, I just don't buy the idea that one of the three ancient tales popular today is the final word on such a presence. Now that I view that ancient Arab literature in the light of the reality of the last ten thousand years as literature and nothing more, I like the idea of God even more.

Possibilities ​

To each his own.

Personally I don't see how it can be any other way.

 

[RodISHI]

The odds of any one of the three ancient Arab stories from earth that are driving our modern religion being the last Word on THE GOD of The UNIVERSE are slim, eh?

​

Dear AVG-JOE
given that GOD represents infinite things beyond the scope of man,
nobody's depiction is going to capture ALL of GOD literally > that's impossible.
The most we can do is SYMBOLIZE the RELATIONSHIPS.

We can't capture infinity in numbers even if we counted forever.
We can use SYMBOLS
1 + 1 + 1 .....
IN ORDER TO AGREE WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT

That's the most we can, label things so we at least AGREE
what we MEAN.

The laws and languages you list above are for people of
THOSE GROUPS to communicate with each other and
AGREE on points and principles so they operate in unison.

Guess what secular people use? SCIENCE.
we use MATH AND SCIENCE as a common language
to communicate VALUES. RELATIONSHIPS and PROCESS.

So that's all these religions are used to do.
They are relative like French, Spanish, etc. and speak to certain
audiences who share a certain cultural heritage in common.

You are like asking what are the chances of French being a true language or Chinese? None of these languages agree with each other! So what are the chances that they are correct?

Well they all work to speak to a particular audience that
understands and responds to THAT LANGUAGE.

So ALL OF THEM can be used correctly to convey TRUTH
and reach AGREEMENT. They re TOOLS for communicating.

Does that make sense AVG-JOE
Do you like that explanation or do you seek a different one?

I agree that gods are an embodiment of our ignorance.

After all humans have had thousands of gods in our existence each one an embodiment of a particular phenomenon or a group of phenomena of which we had no understanding.

As we became less ignorant we started discarding gods.

Therefore it's only a matter of time before we discard the one that is left.

Discard Him at your own risk. We are hardwired to worship. The only choice we have in the matter is what we choose to worship.

Materialism has been shown to be a failed world view.

Now if you want to do this the Darwinian way, let me tell you that natural selection has two main components; functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation.

As man has always believed in a higher power it would be shortsighted not to credit functional advantage and natural selection for man's persistence in believing in a higher power.

And if we start with this as a premise and go looking for ways that belief in God translated to functional advantage we shouldn't be surprised to find them.

So while blaming belief in God on ignorance may make you feel superior, it is not a very reasonable explanation.

A more reasonable explanation is that man did so because it was to his advantage to do so.

I didn't blame anything I merely agreed with another person who posted that same sentiment.

Evolutionary speaking we discard that which is not advantageous.

For example the little toe.

Man—500,000 Years From Now | Natural History Magazine

We have done away with fertility gods, thunder gods, water gods, and countless others if we take this trend to its logical conclusion we will eventually discard the one that is left.

It may take a million more years but it will happen. All we need to do is to be able to explain to the satisfaction of the masses the 3 major phenomenon that this god embodies. The origin of the universe, the rise of life in the universe and what happens to the energy that powers our bodies and minds after death.

If we can do this there will be no need for any gods anymore.

And rather than being hard wired to worship I thinks it's more that humans hate a mystery and will make up stories to explain them away. When we acquire the knowledge to satisfactorily answer these questions we stop using the story.

And yet here we are 3000 years later and church on every street corner.

I wouldn't hold your breath if I were you. These things are cyclical. Winter is coming. God does His best work in the winter.

winter = harvest time, talk about stress to the carnal mind that isn't prepared for it....

 

[Votto]

We've learned a LOT!
​

No more does the West Texas farmer hold his head in wonder and shame asking why some angry god killed his wife with a tornado!

We have The Weather Chanel to explain in detail the physics behind the "Finger of God" that sometimes delivers confusing justice to the uneducated and the gullible ​

Among the things we've learned which have lead to air conditioning and a society with planes, trains and automobiles, we've learned that among all of the religions and methods of Divine Worship that survived European Colonization, God remains uninterested in picking one to bless over the others consistently over Time.

We've also learned that the continued prosperity of the wicked throughout Time seems to support the concept of life evolving without supervision on a dog-eat-dog world over the concept of a loving, omnipotent Father figure coaching Sentient life individually and from within via a still, small voice which is strengthened and emboldened through prayer to, and worship of, said Father figure.

Yes, we also learned that the science that created WMD's may someday wipe us all off the face of the earth with NK and China on the verge of doing so to the US and her other neighbors. We learned that the science of exploiting fossil fuels may someday destroy the entire globe. We even learned the dangers of creating genetically altered plants that cannot reproduce, threatening to sterilize all eatable plant life across the globe. In the future, we will also probably continue to learn the hard way about creating artificial intelligence and the robotic era, as people have fewer jobs and an intelligence that is running things that has no empathy for mankind.

Yes, we learned that the very first story in the Bible, the fruit of the garden of Eden with the forbidden tree of the knowledge of good and evil, applies today more than ever. For you see, knowledge without wisdom brings death.

It is a pity that science does not concern itself with morality and wisdom, but then, religion which does concern itself with these things is just stupid, right?.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Read the bible and you will see that GOD is one evil piece of shit. Anyone that is good or moral can't worship this god! This god is more evil then the devil could ever be.

Says you.

The Jews thought He was very loving and caring.

Yeah so loving and caring he killed lots of people during his temper tantrums

You don't believe God exists so you don't believe He did those things but you get a big old hard on to trot out that bullshit.

Are you going to keep wasting my time or what?

You replied to my post dipshit.

And I really don't give a flying or any other kind of fuck about you or your time.

The history of man shows us the trend. We leave behind childish beliefs as we gain knowledge. We have abandoned the worship of countless gods and are now down to one an'd we will eventually leave that one behind as well

 

[Skull Pilot]

We've learned a LOT!
​

No more does the West Texas farmer hold his head in wonder and shame asking why some angry god killed his wife with a tornado!

We have The Weather Chanel to explain in detail the physics behind the "Finger of God" that sometimes delivers confusing justice to the uneducated and the gullible ​

Among the things we've learned which have lead to air conditioning and a society with planes, trains and automobiles, we've learned that among all of the religions and methods of Divine Worship that survived European Colonization, God remains uninterested in picking one to bless over the others consistently over Time.

We've also learned that the continued prosperity of the wicked throughout Time seems to support the concept of life evolving without supervision on a dog-eat-dog world over the concept of a loving, omnipotent Father figure coaching Sentient life individually and from within via a still, small voice which is strengthened and emboldened through prayer to, and worship of, said Father figure.

Yes, we also learned that the science that created WMD's may someday wipe us all off the face of the earth with NK and China on the verge of doing so to the US and her other neighbors. We learned that the science of exploiting fossil fuels may someday destroy the entire globe. We even learned the dangers of creating genetically altered plants that cannot reproduce, threatening to sterilize all eatable plant life across the globe. In the future, we will also probably continue to learn the hard way about creating artificial intelligence and the robotic era, as people have fewer jobs and an intelligence that is running things that has no empathy for mankind.

Yes, we learned that the very first story in the Bible, the fruit of the garden of Eden with the forbidden tree of the knowledge of good and evil, applies today more than ever. For you see, knowledge without wisdom brings death.

It is a pity that science does not concern itself with morality and wisdom, but then, religion which does concern itself with these things is just stupid, right?.

The earth will be here long after we are extinct. And we will be extinct one day

 

[Skull Pilot]

Discard Him at your own risk. We are hardwired to worship. The only choice we have in the matter is what we choose to worship.

Materialism has been shown to be a failed world view.

Now if you want to do this the Darwinian way, let me tell you that natural selection has two main components; functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation.

As man has always believed in a higher power it would be shortsighted not to credit functional advantage and natural selection for man's persistence in believing in a higher power.

And if we start with this as a premise and go looking for ways that belief in God translated to functional advantage we shouldn't be surprised to find them.

So while blaming belief in God on ignorance may make you feel superior, it is not a very reasonable explanation.

A more reasonable explanation is that man did so because it was to his advantage to do so.

Like I said... I like the idea of God, I just don't buy the idea that one of the three ancient tales popular today is the final word on such a presence. Now that I view that ancient Arab literature in the light of the reality of the last ten thousand years as literature and nothing more, I like the idea of God even more.

Possibilities ​

To each his own.

Personally I don't see how it can be any other way.

Because you have no ability to think for yourself so you believe everything you are told

 

[AVG-JOE]

Yes, we also learned that the science that created WMD's may someday wipe us all off the face of the earth with NK and China on the verge of doing so to the US and her other neighbors. We learned that the science of exploiting fossil fuels may someday destroy the entire globe. We even learned the dangers of creating genetically altered plants that cannot reproduce, threatening to sterilize all eatable plant life across the globe. In the future, we will also probably continue to learn the hard way about creating artificial intelligence and the robotic era, as people have fewer jobs and an intelligence that is running things that has no empathy for mankind.

Yes, we learned that the very first story in the Bible, the fruit of the garden of Eden with the forbidden tree of the knowledge of good and evil, applies today more than ever. For you see, knowledge without wisdom brings death.

It is a pity that science does not concern itself with morality and wisdom, but then, religion which does concern itself with these things is just stupid, right?.

But it DOES!!!

The morality that is practiced by Science is EXACTLY the same as the morality practiced by Religion and every other organized endeavor of two or more humans working together towards a common goal. From pedophile priests to Harvey Weinstein and Mother Teresa, the morality of every organization is a reflection of the people working in the industry at any given moment in time, and if you believe that there is a fair and benevolent Father figure coaching the prayerful from the sidelines, I have some ocean-front property in Arizona you might like.

 

[hobelim]

It is a pity that science does not concern itself with morality and wisdom, but then, religion which does concern itself with these things is just stupid, right?.

If you are going to profess to be concerned with morality and wisdom, why not start in your own life?

For instance, if you worship Jesus as if he was God you are doing so in violation of the Law of God and the entire teaching of the OT. How wise is that?

If you don't believe me you can look it up.

If death is the consequence for defying the law of God then to teach others to worship Jesus, a human being, as if he was God is to murder. How moral is that?


People who brag about bringing hundreds of people to Jesus are thought of as inspired holy men by the religious. Meanwhile, back in reality, these people are nothing more than deranged serial killers who profess to be teachers of the moral law without knowing the meaning of the words or subjects about which they are so dogmatic.

How is it even possible that religions are concerned with morality and wisdom when what they teach is false and what they do is evil, even according to the very book that they profess to believe is the inspired word of God?

 

[Bonzi]

Which one do you think that you like? I mean some think money is god and others think they are god. Just curious what's your preference?

I kind of prefer no God to anyone described by the human condition thus far...

Christianity is like no other, however, as, the means of salvation is through Jesus.
In no other religion does God himself come to earth as a man and die for the sins of all mankind, past, present and future, and rise again

 

[hobelim]

Which one do you think that you like? I mean some think money is god and others think they are god. Just curious what's your preference?

I kind of prefer no God to anyone described by the human condition thus far...

Christianity is like no other, however, as, the means of salvation is through Jesus.
In no other religion does God himself come to earth as a man and die for the sins of all mankind, past, present and future, and rise again

Maybe so, but only Beldar narfled the Garthok

 

[Votto]

It is a pity that science does not concern itself with morality and wisdom, but then, religion which does concern itself with these things is just stupid, right?.

If you are going to profess to be concerned with morality and wisdom, why not start in your own life?

For instance, if you worship Jesus as if he was God you are doing so in violation of the Law of God and the entire teaching of the OT. How wise is that?

If you don't believe me you can look it up.

If death is the consequence for defying the law of God then to teach others to worship Jesus, a human being, as if he was God is to murder. How moral is that?


People who brag about bringing hundreds of people to Jesus are thought of as inspired holy men by the religious. Meanwhile, back in reality, these people are nothing more than deranged serial killers who profess to be teachers of the moral law without knowing the meaning of the words or subjects about which they are so dogmatic.

How is it even possible that religions are concerned with morality and wisdom when what they teach is false and what they do is evil, even according to the very book that they profess to believe is the inspired word of God?

I was attempting to wipe away the smugness of atheists who only rely on science for their morality. As I have pointed out, that morality is wanting and will most likely lead to our ruin. It has nothing to do with the Christian faith.

If memory serves, Jesus went around pointing out the hypocrisy of the religious leaders of his day. Funny thing, none of them were Christians. Then they took a man who was innocent and pure and whom all religions point to as being a man of God, except the religion that put him on a cross, and murdered him, an innocent man.