I may have gotten the impeachment thing all wrong

[Nostra]

The case isn't "tried" in the senate. The trial was in the impeachment process in the house. The impeachment goes to the senate for the senators to act as judges and pass judgment either for or against removal. Go read up on some stuff, please. And it's not a TRIAL, it's an impeachment process with the house and senate having designated roles.

If the president claims executive privilege for subpoenas from the house it goes to the court. We have three branches. Count them. One, two, three. All other presidents have claimed EP in the past (every fucking one of them back to Washington) and it always goes to the court for a decision on whether or not they have to comply.\
w
Fuck, you think we live in a democratic democracy. You have a long way to go. Please start by hitting the books on the federalist papers if you don't want to look foolish.

NOPE!

the House acts as prosecutors and grand juries, they investigate and decide if high crimes and misdemeanors have met a ''probable cause'' burden needed, in order to place charges.

the Senate tries the defendant, acting as jurors and judges.

the Senate is where all evidence supporting the charges is presented and given to them, and all exculpatory evidence the defense team may have, gets presented and turned over as well.There is no rule that it has to only be evidence the House collected before the impeachment vote.

the Senate has a much greater burden than the House with their votes, because the senators can only convict with the standard of ''BEYOND a reasonable doubt'' not simply a ''probable cause'' like the House.

the trial stage is where even more evidence needs presented in order to reach that much higher burden of proof, to convict.

Holding material evidence back is not what happens in trials, presenting all the evidence you got and some, is needed by both sides, in order for Senators to get to the truth, and make their impartial, fair, just, and sound verdict.

The Senate is holding no material evidence back.

we'll see.... McConnell's rules state they have to vote on it all, one by one...

They will vote on a fishing expedition. The House Clowns want to go fishing for whatever they can find because they failed to do their job before the trial. They have no clue what any witness would say, or what evidence is in the documents. They should have gone after all that prior to the trial.

They have a pretty good idea on what they will say, since a dozen or so people already testified to it....

But, you all made the "there are no first hand witnesses" a talking point, and defense.... So I'll be damn! Guess what? Here are those first hand witnesses you claimed were needed!!! Shut up, or put up, and vote to hear them!!!

Ask your House Clowns why they refused to follow protocol to get witnesses to testify?

 

[Nostra]

The amendments were designed to drag the process out as far as possible, add new charges not part of the articles, and basically make the whole thing a shit show. If they allowed one side to bring in new evidence, they would have opened a floodgate.

The House was supposed to make it's case via the articles themselves, not with added bullshit afterwards.

Marty hates the truth. He knows additional witnesses would just confirm the impeachment charges. Msrtuy wuill do anything to save his orange buddy.

Why weren't those witnesses brought up during the House hearings?

This isn't a show, it's a trial. If your side wasn't ready before the indictment, that's on you.

Because your fat assed POS orange buddy blocked it.

Your lazy ass House Clowns refused to go to court and fight to get witnesses to testify, as our system requires.

Why do you hate the American Constitutional system?

The system does not require every subpoena go before the courts. You are full opf shkit.

Afraid of calling witnesses is is sure sign you don't want their voices heard.

Brting in Truimp & swear him in. Let's find the truth.

If they are challenged in the courts, that's exactly what the system requires.

If the person getting the subpoena deems it invalid because the House didn't formally start the impeachment process, the system requires the House to take it to court for a ruling.

You lose again, RealDumb.

 

[Slade3200]

That’s a childish way to look at it. It expect our leaders to strive to be better... not degrade their discourse down to playground level because somebody else does it too

What you are asking for is one side to lay down and expose it's belly after the other side bared their teeth and growled.

Sorry, but its the reality of the situation.

im just asking for our gov to be transparent and honest. I’m not expecting it to happen

In this post you are asking Senate Republicans for that after House Democrats were not.

yes, of course... I’ll always ask members of any party for honesty and transparency. I don’t accept the “they did it so we can do it” excuse. Learned that in grade school.

and I learned in Engineering school every action has a reaction. Dems play unfair, Republicans play unfair.

What you are asking for is for one side to commit suicide.

i went to engineering school too and Newton’s law doesn’t apply in a literal sense to this situation. That’s a nice try though. I actually think the people who act in a respectable fair mind way wins the day over the party acting like manipulative children.

 

[Nostra]

trump has been impeached. There was no attempt to overthrow or reverse. We the real people, want trump to stop blocking witnesses.

Tell your House Clowns they should have gone to court to get a ruling to make them testify.

Why do you hate the American Constitutional system?

they didn't have the leisure of a year or two to fight the Trump stonewalling thru tying it up in the courts.

Yes they did. They just refused to follow protocol.

Your BS about it being an emergency vanished when Nazi set on it for 33 days.

 

[Nostra]

The Senate is holding no material evidence back.

we'll see.... McConnell's rules state they have to vote on it all, one by one...

They will vote on a fishing expedition. The House Clowns want to go fishing for whatever they can find because they failed to do their job before the trial. They have no clue what any witness would say, or what evidence is in the documents. They should have gone after all that prior to the trial.

Wow, those evil Dermocrats want all the evidence out in the open.

Why don't Republicans?

Republicans have not blocked any evidence. The House Clowns are free to present all the evidence they have, which is squat.

That's why they have Pencil Neck up there for 6 hours saying the same bullshit over and over and over.

Your House Clowns refused to follow the rules to get witnesses and evidence. That's on them. Not Trump. Not the Senate.

Trump has all the evidence - he said it yesterday.. Blocks his people from testifying.

Why is that?

Executive Privilege, and the fact the subpoenas were invalid because Nazi didn't hold the required vote to start impeachment.

Next?

 

[RealDave]

Because your fat assed POS orange buddy blocked it.

How would the Senate be able to "unblock"?

Both have the same subpoena power, did the dems use it?

Trump might allow if he felt the Republicans had his back and thought they could control it.

Screeeeech go the goalposts.

Trump said he wanted these people to testify. So call them. What are you afraid of here,. Marty? That Trump is the piece of shit we all know him to be?

So he wanted them to testify but stopped them? Please try to stick to one story.

Its Trump./ The lying piece of shit Trump. Jesus Msarty,.

Trump blocked people from testifying.

He said in public he wanted them to testify.

Then he said he had all the evidence.

Try to keep up. Marty.
Trump taunts Democrats: "We have all the material. They don't have the material."

 

[Nostra]

How would the Senate be able to "unblock"?

Both have the same subpoena power, did the dems use it?

Trump might allow if he felt the Republicans had his back and thought they could control it.

Screeeeech go the goalposts.

Trump said he wanted these people to testify. So call them. What are you afraid of here,. Marty? That Trump is the piece of shit we all know him to be?

So he wanted them to testify but stopped them? Please try to stick to one story.

Its Trump./ The lying piece of shit Trump. Jesus Msarty,.

Trump blocked people from testifying.

He said in public he wanted them to testify.

Then he said he had all the evidence.

Try to keep up. Marty.
Trump taunts Democrats: "We have all the material. They don't have the material."

Ask your House Clowns why they refused to follow protocol to get witnesses to testify.....

 

[Slade3200]

That’s a childish way to look at it. It expect our leaders to strive to be better... not degrade their discourse down to playground level because somebody else does it too

What you are asking for is one side to lay down and expose it's belly after the other side bared their teeth and growled.

Sorry, but its the reality of the situation.

im just asking for our gov to be transparent and honest. I’m not expecting it to happen

In this post you are asking Senate Republicans for that after House Democrats were not.

yes, of course... I’ll always ask members of any party for honesty and transparency. I don’t accept the “they did it so we can do it” excuse. Learned that in grade school.

Since when has Honesty and Transparency been a character trait of The Modern Democrat Party?

who cares? Do you have any legit questions that aren’t obvious partisan trolling

 

[Ame®icano]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

House has impeached President and submitted two Articles to the Senate based on "overwhelming evidence".

Senate job is to review "overwhelming evidence" that those two Articles are based on, and not to investigate if there is maybe something else. The investigation is House's job, and if they didn't finish the investigation, they shouldn't have rushed with impeachment.

I didn’t see the word “trial” in your reply. You know the word from the constitution. Why not just be straight forward and honest. What you did was pure spin.


Article I, Section 3, Clauses 6 and 7 provide:

The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two-thirds of the Members present.
Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States; but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

Trial is what's happening now in the Senate.

House investigates,, House impeach, House send Articles to Senate.

House presenting evidence to Senate IS trial. Senate review the evidence that Articles are based on, and rule based on that evidence, for that particular Article.

If you were accused for something, the prosecutors goes to trial when they have case against you. They have a case when they have enough evidence for jury to convict you. They don't go to jury and say, "we accused Slade of something, we think he did it, but since we don't have evidence, we need you to investigate for us to find that evidence."

No Slade, you don't go to trial unprepared. It doesn't matter if is court, or the Senate.

 

[progressive hunter]

What you are asking for is one side to lay down and expose it's belly after the other side bared their teeth and growled.

Sorry, but its the reality of the situation.

im just asking for our gov to be transparent and honest. I’m not expecting it to happen

In this post you are asking Senate Republicans for that after House Democrats were not.

yes, of course... I’ll always ask members of any party for honesty and transparency. I don’t accept the “they did it so we can do it” excuse. Learned that in grade school.

Since when has Honesty and Transparency been a character trait of The Modern Democrat Party?

who cares? Do you have any legit questions that aren’t obvious partisan trolling

honest people care,,,

 

[joaquinmiller]

If you're on the side wanting as little information as possible, you're on the wrong side. You're being played.

 

[Care4all]

Because your fat assed POS orange buddy blocked it.

How would the Senate be able to "unblock"?

Both have the same subpoena power, did the dems use it?

Trump might allow if he felt the Republicans had his back and thought they could control it.

Screeeeech go the goalposts.

Trump said he wanted these people to testify. So call them. What are you afraid of here,. Marty? That Trump is the piece of shit we all know him to be?

So he wanted them to testify but stopped them? Please try to stick to one story.

He claimed the accusers had only second hand witnesses, blah blah blah, no first hand witnesses, blah blah blah as his defense.

Well hell's bells, here are the first hand witnesses, just vote to hear them. Put up, or shut up.... now is the time.

 

[Slade3200]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

The amendments were designed to drag the process out as far as possible, add new charges not part of the articles, and basically make the whole thing a shit show. If they allowed one side to bring in new evidence, they would have opened a floodgate.

The House was supposed to make it's case via the articles themselves, not with added bullshit afterwards.

they have their case with their articles. They were blocked from getting supporting evidence in the house. I think it completely reasonable for the senate to allow the subpoena of documents and witnesses. Also very reasonable to let a Republican appointed Supreme Court justice determine whether witnesses are material or not. The fact that the Reps blocked that completely shows their cards.

No, they were not blocked. They were challenged in the court. They used that challenge to form and file "obstruction of Congress" Article.

Reasonable, says who? You see, when Dems are not in control they're trying to change the rules so nobody is in control. But when they have control, oh boy, they will shove it down your throat and make you suffer.

They were blocked, both in court and by official statement from the White House. No witnesses or documents would respond to subpoenas and if any were issued they would be sued... it was all a big hoax, remember? the Dems took what they had and filed the articles thinking that pursuit for witnesses and docs through public pressure in the senate held better odds than playing it out for months/years in court.

 

[Slade3200]

Nobody is asking the senate to make the case. That’s up to the house managers to do. They just want permission to access and present all evidence during the trial

Fuck you are not picking anything up, are you? That has already been done. That phase is OVER. They already Impeached him. They don't need anymore evidence. They obviously have enough. It was OVERWHELMING. Debating the removal of a president in the Senate doesn't include fucking DISCOVERY. Get over it.

Stop being a partisan hack

Listen to yourself. I have no partisan agenda here. I don’t want Trump removed from office. I want him voted out. But I do want the truth to come out. Why don’t you?

Where was your pursuit for the truth during the House Impeachment phase?

i made plenty of critical posts and started threads about that. But my hypocrisy or fair judgement really has nothing to do with debating the topic at hand... let’s stick to the subject. I dont see you making many arguments defending the left but I’m not going to turn every topic into a hypocrisy debate.

I'm not a neutral player here, and fully admit it.

Dems started this farce, made their part of it as partisan as possible, and are now mewling for the part controlled by Republicans to be bipartisan.

Sorry, that bird don't fly.

No peace with Bonaparte.

Ok, they are partisan and you are partisan, neither of you is being fair minded... great so what’s left is simply arguing your side. So let’s stop with the personal hypocrisy critiques that you were making and stick to the substance.

 

[Olde Europe]

["Have they followed the rules from previous impeachment of Clinton? No, they set the rules to completely shut House Republicans."]
That’s a fair argument you make.

That's idiotic.

 

[Nostra]

How would the Senate be able to "unblock"?

Both have the same subpoena power, did the dems use it?

Trump might allow if he felt the Republicans had his back and thought they could control it.

Screeeeech go the goalposts.

Trump said he wanted these people to testify. So call them. What are you afraid of here,. Marty? That Trump is the piece of shit we all know him to be?

So he wanted them to testify but stopped them? Please try to stick to one story.

He claimed the accusers had only second hand witnesses, blah blah blah, no first hand witnesses, blah blah blah as his defense.

Well hell's bells, here are the first hand witnesses, just vote to hear them. Put up, or shut up.... now is the time.

Ask your House Clowns why they didn't follow protocol to get them to testify before they shut down their "overwhelming" investigation.

 

[Care4all]

trump has been impeached. There was no attempt to overthrow or reverse. We the real people, want trump to stop blocking witnesses.

Tell your House Clowns they should have gone to court to get a ruling to make them testify.

Why do you hate the American Constitutional system?

they didn't have the leisure of a year or two to fight the Trump stonewalling thru tying it up in the courts.

Yes they did. They just refused to follow protocol.

Your BS about it being an emergency vanished when Nazi set on it for 33 days.

Dec 19th through Jan 7th or so, they were on Christmas break, not in town....impeachment rules say congress/Senate have to be in session to pass them on... So those days shouldn't count!

By impeaching him, it bridled his lawlessness for the days that passed before the Senate got them.

 

[Slade3200]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

House has impeached President and submitted two Articles to the Senate based on "overwhelming evidence".

Senate job is to review "overwhelming evidence" that those two Articles are based on, and not to investigate if there is maybe something else. The investigation is House's job, and if they didn't finish the investigation, they shouldn't have rushed with impeachment.

I didn’t see the word “trial” in your reply. You know the word from the constitution. Why not just be straight forward and honest. What you did was pure spin.


Article I, Section 3, Clauses 6 and 7 provide:

The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two-thirds of the Members present.
Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States; but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

Trial is what's happening now in the Senate.

House investigates,, House impeach, House send Articles to Senate.

House presenting evidence to Senate IS trial. Senate review the evidence that Articles are based on, and rule based on that evidence, for that particular Article.

If you were accused for something, the prosecutors goes to trial when they have case against you. They have a case when they have enough evidence for jury to convict you. They don't go to jury and say, "we accused Slade of something, we think he did it, but since we don't have evidence, we need you to investigate for us to find that evidence."

No Slade, you don't go to trial unprepared. It doesn't matter if is court, or the Senate.

The Dems have their case and spent all day yesterday presenting that case. They are not saying that they have no evidence. They feel like they have very convincing evidence. They also feel like there is much more evidence that was blocked by Trump and they want access to it.

 

[joaquinmiller]

Because your fat assed POS orange buddy blocked it.

How would the Senate be able to "unblock"?

Both have the same subpoena power, did the dems use it?

Trump might allow if he felt the Republicans had his back and thought they could control it.

Screeeeech go the goalposts.

Trump said he wanted these people to testify. So call them. What are you afraid of here,. Marty? That Trump is the piece of shit we all know him to be?

So he wanted them to testify but stopped them? Please try to stick to one story.

No, he said he wanted them to testify. If he really wanted them to testify, they would have done it by now. If you've been watching the show the past 3 years, you know what Trump says is rarely connected to the truth.

 

[progressive hunter]

Fuck you are not picking anything up, are you? That has already been done. That phase is OVER. They already Impeached him. They don't need anymore evidence. They obviously have enough. It was OVERWHELMING. Debating the removal of a president in the Senate doesn't include fucking DISCOVERY. Get over it.

Stop being a partisan hack

Listen to yourself. I have no partisan agenda here. I don’t want Trump removed from office. I want him voted out. But I do want the truth to come out. Why don’t you?

Where was your pursuit for the truth during the House Impeachment phase?

i made plenty of critical posts and started threads about that. But my hypocrisy or fair judgement really has nothing to do with debating the topic at hand... let’s stick to the subject. I dont see you making many arguments defending the left but I’m not going to turn every topic into a hypocrisy debate.

I'm not a neutral player here, and fully admit it.

Dems started this farce, made their part of it as partisan as possible, and are now mewling for the part controlled by Republicans to be bipartisan.

Sorry, that bird don't fly.

No peace with Bonaparte.

Ok, they are partisan and you are partisan, neither of you is being fair minded... great so what’s left is simply arguing your side. So let’s stop with the personal hypocrisy critiques that you were making and stick to the substance.

WTF??

youve been partisan and ignored the substance since this all began,,,