I may have gotten the impeachment thing all wrong

[progressive hunter]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

House has impeached President and submitted two Articles to the Senate based on "overwhelming evidence".

Senate job is to review "overwhelming evidence" that those two Articles are based on, and not to investigate if there is maybe something else. The investigation is House's job, and if they didn't finish the investigation, they shouldn't have rushed with impeachment.

I didn’t see the word “trial” in your reply. You know the word from the constitution. Why not just be straight forward and honest. What you did was pure spin.


Article I, Section 3, Clauses 6 and 7 provide:

The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two-thirds of the Members present.
Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States; but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

Trial is what's happening now in the Senate.

House investigates,, House impeach, House send Articles to Senate.

House presenting evidence to Senate IS trial. Senate review the evidence that Articles are based on, and rule based on that evidence, for that particular Article.

If you were accused for something, the prosecutors goes to trial when they have case against you. They have a case when they have enough evidence for jury to convict you. They don't go to jury and say, "we accused Slade of something, we think he did it, but since we don't have evidence, we need you to investigate for us to find that evidence."

No Slade, you don't go to trial unprepared. It doesn't matter if is court, or the Senate.

The Dems have their case and spent all day yesterday presenting that case. They are not saying that they have no evidence. They feel like they have very convincing evidence. They also feel like there is much more evidence that was blocked by Trump and they want access to it.

hearsay is not evidence,,,

 

[Slade3200]

Listen to yourself. I have no partisan agenda here. I don’t want Trump removed from office. I want him voted out. But I do want the truth to come out. Why don’t you?

Where was your pursuit for the truth during the House Impeachment phase?

i made plenty of critical posts and started threads about that. But my hypocrisy or fair judgement really has nothing to do with debating the topic at hand... let’s stick to the subject. I dont see you making many arguments defending the left but I’m not going to turn every topic into a hypocrisy debate.

I'm not a neutral player here, and fully admit it.

Dems started this farce, made their part of it as partisan as possible, and are now mewling for the part controlled by Republicans to be bipartisan.

Sorry, that bird don't fly.

No peace with Bonaparte.

Ok, they are partisan and you are partisan, neither of you is being fair minded... great so what’s left is simply arguing your side. So let’s stop with the personal hypocrisy critiques that you were making and stick to the substance.

WTF??

youve been partisan and ignored the substance since this all began,,,

We’ve had this talk... treat me as a hostile partisan actor if you want. I don’t really care. It’s pointless to have this debate. Stay on topic.

 

[martybegan]

What you are asking for is one side to lay down and expose it's belly after the other side bared their teeth and growled.

Sorry, but its the reality of the situation.

im just asking for our gov to be transparent and honest. I’m not expecting it to happen

In this post you are asking Senate Republicans for that after House Democrats were not.

yes, of course... I’ll always ask members of any party for honesty and transparency. I don’t accept the “they did it so we can do it” excuse. Learned that in grade school.

and I learned in Engineering school every action has a reaction. Dems play unfair, Republicans play unfair.

What you are asking for is for one side to commit suicide.

i went to engineering school too and Newton’s law doesn’t apply in a literal sense to this situation. That’s a nice try though. I actually think the people who act in a respectable fair mind way wins the day over the party acting like manipulative children.

And unicorn queefs spread magic pixie dust that makes us all fart pop tart sprinkles.

I doubt you learned anything in school, because you are assuming the theoretical "reality" that researchers deal with, as opposed to actual reality, which Engineers have to deal with on a daily basis.

i.e. I doesn't matter how pretty the architect wants the building to be, it still has to be able to stay upright.

 

[progressive hunter]

Where was your pursuit for the truth during the House Impeachment phase?

i made plenty of critical posts and started threads about that. But my hypocrisy or fair judgement really has nothing to do with debating the topic at hand... let’s stick to the subject. I dont see you making many arguments defending the left but I’m not going to turn every topic into a hypocrisy debate.

I'm not a neutral player here, and fully admit it.

Dems started this farce, made their part of it as partisan as possible, and are now mewling for the part controlled by Republicans to be bipartisan.

Sorry, that bird don't fly.

No peace with Bonaparte.

Ok, they are partisan and you are partisan, neither of you is being fair minded... great so what’s left is simply arguing your side. So let’s stop with the personal hypocrisy critiques that you were making and stick to the substance.

WTF??

youve been partisan and ignored the substance since this all began,,,

We’ve had this talk... treat me as a hostile partisan actor if you want. I don’t really care. It’s pointless to have this debate. Stay on topic.

I was on topic,,,

 

[Nostra]

trump has been impeached. There was no attempt to overthrow or reverse. We the real people, want trump to stop blocking witnesses.

Tell your House Clowns they should have gone to court to get a ruling to make them testify.

Why do you hate the American Constitutional system?

they didn't have the leisure of a year or two to fight the Trump stonewalling thru tying it up in the courts.

Yes they did. They just refused to follow protocol.

Your BS about it being an emergency vanished when Nazi set on it for 33 days.

Dec 19th through Jan 7th or so, they were on Christmas break, not in town....impeachment rules say congress/Senate have to be in session to pass them on... So those days shouldn't count!

By impeaching him, it bridled his lawlessness for the days that passed before the Senate got them.

I asked about subpoenas. How many did Nazi and the House Clowns send out during those 33 days Nazi went into hiding with impeachment?

But thanks for pointing out Nazi sent them all on vacation while Trump was a threat to our "democracy" and national security.

 

[j-mac]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

So, you're letting Schiff and the clowns sway you into swallowing their narrative...Don't be so weak dude....If a case like this were in an actual court of law, it would have been dismissed already for 1. lack of any law being broken, and 2. lack of evidence....No matter how many times the prosecution tried to say that only what they said was the truth....You want the truth? Here's a truth for ya...Democrats of today are severly upset that they didn't win in 2016, and they are staging a coup to overturn 63 million American's vote...But, hey? it's a free country, throw in with that kind of anti American approach if you want....

 

[Slade3200]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

House has impeached President and submitted two Articles to the Senate based on "overwhelming evidence".

Senate job is to review "overwhelming evidence" that those two Articles are based on, and not to investigate if there is maybe something else. The investigation is House's job, and if they didn't finish the investigation, they shouldn't have rushed with impeachment.

I didn’t see the word “trial” in your reply. You know the word from the constitution. Why not just be straight forward and honest. What you did was pure spin.


Article I, Section 3, Clauses 6 and 7 provide:

The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two-thirds of the Members present.
Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States; but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

Trial is what's happening now in the Senate.

House investigates,, House impeach, House send Articles to Senate.

House presenting evidence to Senate IS trial. Senate review the evidence that Articles are based on, and rule based on that evidence, for that particular Article.

If you were accused for something, the prosecutors goes to trial when they have case against you. They have a case when they have enough evidence for jury to convict you. They don't go to jury and say, "we accused Slade of something, we think he did it, but since we don't have evidence, we need you to investigate for us to find that evidence."

No Slade, you don't go to trial unprepared. It doesn't matter if is court, or the Senate.

The Dems have their case and spent all day yesterday presenting that case. They are not saying that they have no evidence. They feel like they have very convincing evidence. They also feel like there is much more evidence that was blocked by Trump and they want access to it.

Hearsay is not evidence,,,

Agreed

 

[martybegan]

How would the Senate be able to "unblock"?

Both have the same subpoena power, did the dems use it?

Trump might allow if he felt the Republicans had his back and thought they could control it.

Screeeeech go the goalposts.

Trump said he wanted these people to testify. So call them. What are you afraid of here,. Marty? That Trump is the piece of shit we all know him to be?

So he wanted them to testify but stopped them? Please try to stick to one story.

Its Trump./ The lying piece of shit Trump. Jesus Msarty,.

Trump blocked people from testifying.

He said in public he wanted them to testify.

Then he said he had all the evidence.

Try to keep up. Marty.
Trump taunts Democrats: "We have all the material. They don't have the material."

Trump didn’t elaborate on what he meant, but his comments come hours after Senate Republicans voted down several motions to subpoena administration officials and documents related to the Ukraine scandal.

More assumptions on the part of a biased press.

 

[martybegan]

How would the Senate be able to "unblock"?

Both have the same subpoena power, did the dems use it?

Trump might allow if he felt the Republicans had his back and thought they could control it.

Screeeeech go the goalposts.

Trump said he wanted these people to testify. So call them. What are you afraid of here,. Marty? That Trump is the piece of shit we all know him to be?

So he wanted them to testify but stopped them? Please try to stick to one story.

He claimed the accusers had only second hand witnesses, blah blah blah, no first hand witnesses, blah blah blah as his defense.

Well hell's bells, here are the first hand witnesses, just vote to hear them. Put up, or shut up.... now is the time.

Why didn't they testify in the House? Why didn't the House subpoena them and fight for them to be forced to testify?

 

[Slade3200]

im just asking for our gov to be transparent and honest. I’m not expecting it to happen

In this post you are asking Senate Republicans for that after House Democrats were not.

yes, of course... I’ll always ask members of any party for honesty and transparency. I don’t accept the “they did it so we can do it” excuse. Learned that in grade school.

and I learned in Engineering school every action has a reaction. Dems play unfair, Republicans play unfair.

What you are asking for is for one side to commit suicide.

i went to engineering school too and Newton’s law doesn’t apply in a literal sense to this situation. That’s a nice try though. I actually think the people who act in a respectable fair mind way wins the day over the party acting like manipulative children.

And unicorn queefs spread magic pixie dust that makes us all fart pop tart sprinkles.

I doubt you learned anything in school, because you are assuming the theoretical "reality" that researchers deal with, as opposed to actual reality, which Engineers have to deal with on a daily basis.

i.e. I doesn't matter how pretty the architect wants the building to be, it still has to be able to stay upright.

Besides an interesting visual, I don’t really have a response to anything you said there. It was just a baseless platitude

 

[Care4all]

Trump might allow if he felt the Republicans had his back and thought they could control it.

Screeeeech go the goalposts.

Trump said he wanted these people to testify. So call them. What are you afraid of here,. Marty? That Trump is the piece of shit we all know him to be?

So he wanted them to testify but stopped them? Please try to stick to one story.

He claimed the accusers had only second hand witnesses, blah blah blah, no first hand witnesses, blah blah blah as his defense.

Well hell's bells, here are the first hand witnesses, just vote to hear them. Put up, or shut up.... now is the time.

Ask your House Clowns why they didn't follow protocol to get them to testify before they shut down their "overwhelming" investigation.

Slade answered that, right above... the Senate had a better shot to get them immediately.... Trump couldn't fight them as ferociously to deny them, because they are the same party, he needs them all, to save him, from himself.

 

[martybegan]

Fuck you are not picking anything up, are you? That has already been done. That phase is OVER. They already Impeached him. They don't need anymore evidence. They obviously have enough. It was OVERWHELMING. Debating the removal of a president in the Senate doesn't include fucking DISCOVERY. Get over it.

Stop being a partisan hack

Listen to yourself. I have no partisan agenda here. I don’t want Trump removed from office. I want him voted out. But I do want the truth to come out. Why don’t you?

Where was your pursuit for the truth during the House Impeachment phase?

i made plenty of critical posts and started threads about that. But my hypocrisy or fair judgement really has nothing to do with debating the topic at hand... let’s stick to the subject. I dont see you making many arguments defending the left but I’m not going to turn every topic into a hypocrisy debate.

I'm not a neutral player here, and fully admit it.

Dems started this farce, made their part of it as partisan as possible, and are now mewling for the part controlled by Republicans to be bipartisan.

Sorry, that bird don't fly.

No peace with Bonaparte.

Ok, they are partisan and you are partisan, neither of you is being fair minded... great so what’s left is simply arguing your side. So let’s stop with the personal hypocrisy critiques that you were making and stick to the substance.

I am being honest. you are hiding behind the false curtain of neutrality.

No one is truly neutral, and those who claim to be are either lying to themselves, lying to others, or both.

 

[The Original Tree]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

The amendments were designed to drag the process out as far as possible, add new charges not part of the articles, and basically make the whole thing a shit show. If they allowed one side to bring in new evidence, they would have opened a floodgate.

The House was supposed to make it's case via the articles themselves, not with added bullshit afterwards.

they have their case with their articles. They were blocked from getting supporting evidence in the house. I think it completely reasonable for the senate to allow the subpoena of documents and witnesses. Also very reasonable to let a Republican appointed Supreme Court justice determine whether witnesses are material or not. The fact that the Reps blocked that completely shows their cards.

No, they were not blocked. They were challenged in the court. They used that challenge to form and file "obstruction of Congress" Article.

Reasonable, says who? You see, when Dems are not in control they're trying to change the rules so nobody is in control. But when they have control, oh boy, they will shove it down your throat and make you suffer.

Did they testify? No
Why?
Because Trump said no.

Because the courts and Constitution said they couldn't be forced to.

You want to change The Courts and Constitution.

In fact, I'd lay a bet that you'd trade Trump staying in office, for Changing The Courts and Constitution to allow you to Abuse everyone's Civil and Constitutional Rights and turn America in to a Socialist Nation with a Puppet President Beholden to The House of Reps with the whole country held hostage by your Leftist Axis of Evil.

 

[martybegan]

How would the Senate be able to "unblock"?

Both have the same subpoena power, did the dems use it?

Trump might allow if he felt the Republicans had his back and thought they could control it.

Screeeeech go the goalposts.

Trump said he wanted these people to testify. So call them. What are you afraid of here,. Marty? That Trump is the piece of shit we all know him to be?

So he wanted them to testify but stopped them? Please try to stick to one story.

No, he said he wanted them to testify. If he really wanted them to testify, they would have done it by now. If you've been watching the show the past 3 years, you know what Trump says is rarely connected to the truth.

So you have direct quotes from him about specific people he wanted to testify?

Not "leaks" or "sources say" references?

 

[Slade3200]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

So, you're letting Schiff and the clowns sway you into swallowing their narrative...Don't be so weak dude....If a case like this were in an actual court of law, it would have been dismissed already for 1. lack of any law being broken, and 2. lack of evidence....No matter how many times the prosecution tried to say that only what they said was the truth....You want the truth? Here's a truth for ya...Democrats of today are severly upset that they didn't win in 2016, and they are staging a coup to overturn 63 million American's vote...But, hey? it's a free country, throw in with that kind of anti American approach if you want....

That talking point is sooooo weak and tired. Please try an move into to something a bit more interesting.

 

[Nostra]

Screeeeech go the goalposts.

Trump said he wanted these people to testify. So call them. What are you afraid of here,. Marty? That Trump is the piece of shit we all know him to be?

So he wanted them to testify but stopped them? Please try to stick to one story.

He claimed the accusers had only second hand witnesses, blah blah blah, no first hand witnesses, blah blah blah as his defense.

Well hell's bells, here are the first hand witnesses, just vote to hear them. Put up, or shut up.... now is the time.

Ask your House Clowns why they didn't follow protocol to get them to testify before they shut down their "overwhelming" investigation.

Spare answered that, right above... the Senate had a better shot to get them immediately.... Trump couldn't fight them as ferociously to deny them, because they are the same party, he needs them all, to save him, from himself.

Executive Privilege is the same regarding House subpoenas and Senate subpoenas. The WH can challenge both and go to the courts for a ruling.

Once again you are trying to put the job of the House on the Senate. Your House Clowns refused to follow protocol. That's on them, not Trump, not the Senate.

 

[boedicca]

The Cliff Notes Version:

SchiftFace and his cronies couldn't prove that Trump committed any actual crimes in the House Clown Show, so now they want a do-over in the Senate.

This is a Soviet-style Show Trial and the only ones fooled by it are the inside-baseball playing Dems.

 

[The Original Tree]

The case isn't "tried" in the senate. The trial was in the impeachment process in the house. The impeachment goes to the senate for the senators to act as judges and pass judgment either for or against removal. Go read up on some stuff, please. And it's not a TRIAL, it's an impeachment process with the house and senate having designated roles.

If the president claims executive privilege for subpoenas from the house it goes to the court. We have three branches. Count them. One, two, three. All other presidents have claimed EP in the past (every fucking one of them back to Washington) and it always goes to the court for a decision on whether or not they have to comply.\
w
Fuck, you think we live in a democratic democracy. You have a long way to go. Please start by hitting the books on the federalist papers if you don't want to look foolish.

NOPE!

the House acts as prosecutors and grand juries, they investigate and decide if high crimes and misdemeanors have met a ''probable cause'' burden needed, in order to place charges.

the Senate tries the defendant, acting as jurors and judges.

the Senate is where all evidence supporting the charges is presented and given to them, and all exculpatory evidence the defense team may have, gets presented and turned over as well.There is no rule that it has to only be evidence the House collected before the impeachment vote.

the Senate has a much greater burden than the House with their votes, because the senators can only convict with the standard of ''BEYOND a reasonable doubt'' not simply a ''probable cause'' like the House.

the trial stage is where even more evidence needs presented in order to reach that much higher burden of proof, to convict.

Holding material evidence back is not what happens in trials, presenting all the evidence you got and some, is needed by both sides, in order for Senators to get to the truth, and make their impartial, fair, just, and sound verdict.

The Senate is holding no material evidence back.

we'll see.... McConnell's rules state they have to vote on it all, one by one...

They will vote on a fishing expedition. The House Clowns want to go fishing for whatever they can find because they failed to do their job before the trial. They have no clue what any witness would say, or what evidence is in the documents. They should have gone after all that prior to the trial.

They have a pretty good idea on what they will say, since a dozen or so people already testified to it....

But, you all made the "there are no first hand witnesses" a talking point, and defense.... So I'll be damn! Guess what? Here are those first hand witnesses you claimed were needed!!! Shut up, or put up, and vote to hear them!!!

Why are you so immoral, unethical, and so bent to pathological lying? Why do you hate this country and it's president?

There are no first hand witnesses. That is a fact, and not a talking point.
If there were first hand witnesses, Schiff and Nadler would have called them.
As it stands, they didn't even want to let anyone talk to the fake Whistleblowers who started this whole hoax, because they'd be sent to jail for espionage and perjury.

And anyone that challenged their subpoenas, they cowered like a vampire cowers at the rising sun and then withdrew said subpoenas, then they gaveled the inquiry and deemed their evidence overwhelming and irrefutable as a "complete and undeniable work worthy to be put to a vote for impeachment and articles".

 

[Slade3200]

Listen to yourself. I have no partisan agenda here. I don’t want Trump removed from office. I want him voted out. But I do want the truth to come out. Why don’t you?

Where was your pursuit for the truth during the House Impeachment phase?

i made plenty of critical posts and started threads about that. But my hypocrisy or fair judgement really has nothing to do with debating the topic at hand... let’s stick to the subject. I dont see you making many arguments defending the left but I’m not going to turn every topic into a hypocrisy debate.

I'm not a neutral player here, and fully admit it.

Dems started this farce, made their part of it as partisan as possible, and are now mewling for the part controlled by Republicans to be bipartisan.

Sorry, that bird don't fly.

No peace with Bonaparte.

Ok, they are partisan and you are partisan, neither of you is being fair minded... great so what’s left is simply arguing your side. So let’s stop with the personal hypocrisy critiques that you were making and stick to the substance.

I am being honest. you are hiding behind the false curtain of neutrality.

No one is truly neutral, and those who claim to be are either lying to themselves, lying to others, or both.

ok then consider me a non-neutral player, I’m fine with that. I think the Dems are idiots and I’m still going to say things about that, but go ahead and ignore those comments and consider me as a biased actor promoting an opposing position to yourself... ok, we good now?

 

[The Original Tree]

Where was your pursuit for the truth during the House Impeachment phase?

i made plenty of critical posts and started threads about that. But my hypocrisy or fair judgement really has nothing to do with debating the topic at hand... let’s stick to the subject. I dont see you making many arguments defending the left but I’m not going to turn every topic into a hypocrisy debate.

I'm not a neutral player here, and fully admit it.

Dems started this farce, made their part of it as partisan as possible, and are now mewling for the part controlled by Republicans to be bipartisan.

Sorry, that bird don't fly.

No peace with Bonaparte.

Ok, they are partisan and you are partisan, neither of you is being fair minded... great so what’s left is simply arguing your side. So let’s stop with the personal hypocrisy critiques that you were making and stick to the substance.

I am being honest. you are hiding behind the false curtain of neutrality.

No one is truly neutral, and those who claim to be are either lying to themselves, lying to others, or both.

ok then consider me a non-neutral player, I’m fine with that. I think the Dems are idiots and I’m still going to say things about that, but go ahead and ignore those comments and consider me as a biased actor promoting an opposing position to yourself... ok, we good now?

The first honest thing you have said since you joined this forum.