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]Then why did you bring it up as something that would count in this discussion...the knowing of any jews or talking to them?
You may be right, but I think a national culture is worth fighting for. Christmas is a part of our national heritage instituted by the first people who came here to build a new nation. It was selected to be celebrated as a national holiday due to the overwhelming majority of Americans who celebrate Christmas as Christmas and because of its historical roots in this nation.
Why should anybody need appeasement? Why should anybody be offended by that? Everybody is free to participate or not as they choose. As I previously posted, as one of a small minority of Christians in Israel, I certainly would not expect that nation to change its nationally observed Jewish festivals to something secular. Nor would I expect Israel to institute Christmas as a national holiday. It is not part of their culture despite the fact that it originated in their country. It did not become part of anybody's culture until the Europeans made it so and then imported it to the New World. I would appreciate the ability to celebrate Christmas in Israel however as I think our American Jews appreciate the ability to celebrate their festivals without fear here. Ditto for any other faith that recognizes certain events, dates, feast days, etc. Or those who don't want to participate in any of it.
Me, too....and if they get offended, fuck 'em.I will continue to say Happy Holidays to strangers.
However, Christmas is the national holiday. Education includes the history and purpose behind all the other national holidays. When I was in school religion was neither emphasized nor forbidden. Each student was free to express it or not as he or she chose so long as it was not disruptive to the class. That is a freedom I think the Founders intended and I think they would be horrified to think modern education would deny ANY of the imagery, symbolism, or historical references to the underpinnings of the national holiday. In my view such IS academic content. And it certainly can be allowed and discussed without inserting anybody's personal religious beliefs or dogma.
I hate to say it FF, but people saying what you are saying...and i am not saying that is bad.... but sooner or later the trouble maker shit disturbers are going to force "christmas" changed to the "winter holiday".
When we were in school there were no muslims to appease either.
You may be right, but I think a national culture is worth fighting for. Christmas is a part of our national heritage instituted by the first people who came here to build a new nation. It was selected to be celebrated as a national holiday due to the overwhelming majority of Americans who celebrate Christmas as Christmas and because of its historical roots in this nation.
Why should anybody need appeasement? Why should anybody be offended by that? Everybody is free to participate or not as they choose. As I previously posted, as one of a small minority of Christians in Israel, I certainly would not expect that nation to change its nationally observed Jewish festivals to something secular. Nor would I expect Israel to institute Christmas as a national holiday. It is not part of their culture despite the fact that it originated in their country. It did not become part of anybody's culture until the Europeans made it so and then imported it to the New World. I would appreciate the ability to celebrate Christmas in Israel however as I think our American Jews appreciate the ability to celebrate their festivals without fear here. Ditto for any other faith that recognizes certain events, dates, feast days, etc. Or those who don't want to participate in any of it.
I hate to say it FF, but people saying what you are saying...and i am not saying that is bad.... but sooner or later the trouble maker shit disturbers are going to force "christmas" changed to the "winter holiday".
When we were in school there were no muslims to appease either.
You may be right, but I think a national culture is worth fighting for. Christmas is a part of our national heritage instituted by the first people who came here to build a new nation. It was selected to be celebrated as a national holiday due to the overwhelming majority of Americans who celebrate Christmas as Christmas and because of its historical roots in this nation.
Why should anybody need appeasement? Why should anybody be offended by that? Everybody is free to participate or not as they choose. As I previously posted, as one of a small minority of Christians in Israel, I certainly would not expect that nation to change its nationally observed Jewish festivals to something secular. Nor would I expect Israel to institute Christmas as a national holiday. It is not part of their culture despite the fact that it originated in their country. It did not become part of anybody's culture until the Europeans made it so and then imported it to the New World. I would appreciate the ability to celebrate Christmas in Israel however as I think our American Jews appreciate the ability to celebrate their festivals without fear here. Ditto for any other faith that recognizes certain events, dates, feast days, etc. Or those who don't want to participate in any of it.
You are on to to many subjects here in one thread ff.
I don't see a problem with it at all either FF. I do have a problem with public schools intrusting or allowing religion....any religion into the school for anything other reason then academical purposes.. I think it is fine to allow religion academically...so the teaching of Americans founding looking for religious freedom is fine. The teaching of the Holocaust of the jews is fine.... anything thing like that works for me. None of the rest of it though.
No one is asking you to change ff.
The change you are seeing publicly however is no one wanting to offend. No company wanting to be sued for offending.
As far as i know, IMO, there is only one religion who wants appeasement and "not to be offended...and that is the muslims.
And Christians.We Christians can say Merry X-Mas. The X was the sign for Christ in the days of the Empire, and illiterate peasants could see it written or posted on the ancient message board (yeah, they were in every village and town and city) and know something was going on about Christ and the Christians.
So if someone gets put out of shape by x-mas today, explain that it is an unwitting witness to Christ.
Too much umbrage is made over the phrases. Wish anybody as is appropriate for you, and I will do the same.
Oh, get real. Muslims aren't demanding appeasement, but Bill O'Reilly is.
Syrenn: may the baby Jesus smile fondly on you. God bless you, dear!
I hate to say it FF, but people saying what you are saying...and i am not saying that is bad.... but sooner or later the trouble maker shit disturbers are going to force "christmas" changed to the "winter holiday".
When we were in school there were no muslims to appease either.
You may be right, but I think a national culture is worth fighting for. Christmas is a part of our national heritage instituted by the first people who came here to build a new nation. It was selected to be celebrated as a national holiday due to the overwhelming majority of Americans who celebrate Christmas as Christmas and because of its historical roots in this nation.
Why should anybody need appeasement? Why should anybody be offended by that? Everybody is free to participate or not as they choose. As I previously posted, as one of a small minority of Christians in Israel, I certainly would not expect that nation to change its nationally observed Jewish festivals to something secular. Nor would I expect Israel to institute Christmas as a national holiday. It is not part of their culture despite the fact that it originated in their country. It did not become part of anybody's culture until the Europeans made it so and then imported it to the New World. I would appreciate the ability to celebrate Christmas in Israel however as I think our American Jews appreciate the ability to celebrate their festivals without fear here. Ditto for any other faith that recognizes certain events, dates, feast days, etc. Or those who don't want to participate in any of it.
You are on to to many subjects here in one thread ff.
I don't see a problem with it at all either FF. I do have a problem with public schools intrusting or allowing religion....any religion into the school for anything other reason then academical purposes.. I think it is fine to allow religion academically...so the teaching of Americans founding looking for religious freedom is fine. The teaching of the Holocaust of the jews is fine.... anything thing like that works for me. None of the rest of it though.
No one is asking you to change ff.
The change you are seeing publicly however is no one wanting to offend. No company wanting to be sued for offending.
As far as i know, IMO, there is only one religion who wants appeasement and "not to be offended...and that is the muslims.
There are conservative Christians who seek a theocracy. Michele Bachmann and Rich Santorum appear to be seeking it, for example.
I think eder has issues with women.
You may be right, but I think a national culture is worth fighting for. Christmas is a part of our national heritage instituted by the first people who came here to build a new nation. It was selected to be celebrated as a national holiday due to the overwhelming majority of Americans who celebrate Christmas as Christmas and because of its historical roots in this nation.
Why should anybody need appeasement? Why should anybody be offended by that? Everybody is free to participate or not as they choose. As I previously posted, as one of a small minority of Christians in Israel, I certainly would not expect that nation to change its nationally observed Jewish festivals to something secular. Nor would I expect Israel to institute Christmas as a national holiday. It is not part of their culture despite the fact that it originated in their country. It did not become part of anybody's culture until the Europeans made it so and then imported it to the New World. I would appreciate the ability to celebrate Christmas in Israel however as I think our American Jews appreciate the ability to celebrate their festivals without fear here. Ditto for any other faith that recognizes certain events, dates, feast days, etc. Or those who don't want to participate in any of it.
You are on to to many subjects here in one thread ff.
I don't see a problem with it at all either FF. I do have a problem with public schools intrusting or allowing religion....any religion into the school for anything other reason then academical purposes.. I think it is fine to allow religion academically...so the teaching of Americans founding looking for religious freedom is fine. The teaching of the Holocaust of the jews is fine.... anything thing like that works for me. None of the rest of it though.
No one is asking you to change ff.
The change you are seeing publicly however is no one wanting to offend. No company wanting to be sued for offending.
As far as i know, IMO, there is only one religion who wants appeasement and "not to be offended...and that is the muslims.
As one who grew up in public schools where religion was accepted as a normal fact of our culture, I will admit I resent that schools now tell children that their God, their beliefs, their family customs are unwelcome in their school. I think this is harmful and counterproductive to what is intended. It never occurred to me at any time in 12 years of public school or the time I spent in college that it was somehow wrong to celebrate Christmas as Christmas with all the traditions involved in Christmas. No, the teachers didn't teach theology or doctrine of any kind. In ALL that time, I can tell you the religious affiliation of only two of my teachers; at least those who didn't attend my church and that was just because of incidental remarks. But my God was never made to feel unwelcome in school or any activity in which I participated.
And with all that, no theocracy has ever developed or even threatened to be developed in America and there is no danger of that now. The First Amendment has remained solidly intact until now. And now it is not in danger from those who are religious, but those who object to religious expression.
So we are just going to have to disagree on this one. You may be right that the culture assassins will eventually nullify Christmas as a national holiday and replace it with something else or nothing at all. I think we will have lost a big chunk of our national historical heritage when that happens. I hope I don't live long enough to see it.
I don't think keeping religion out of public schools is going to effect the national historical heritage one bit FF.
And I think it already has. Again I am not advocating any form of religious teaching or a religious pageant at school. I think I am focused on one issue and one issue only in this thread. But we will just have to agree to disagree.
And I think it already has. Again I am not advocating any form of religious teaching or a religious pageant at school. I think I am focused on one issue and one issue only in this thread. But we will just have to agree to disagree.
We have the greeting merry christmas
we have religion in schools
religious holidays in school
we have loss of national historical heritage
