I thought I'd enjoy our public lands today..

[koshergrl]

They have no right to fence off the roads, most of which have been there for generations

Did you even look at the photo you took? I guess you need reminding that grass does grow over a road in the space of a few weeks. That road has been closed for quite some time.

oh they put the gates up as soon as they gain control of land. But you are wrong about the grass. This is the Oregon coast. The grass is everywhere and it is always green. These are all access roads that were being used when I was young.

You could have used the road too. All you had to do was park your car on the side of the road, or ask a friend to drive you and your dog to the access road and drop you off, and marched your asss down the road with your dog. Had you done either of those things, you'd have been enjoying the public lands and using the road.

You're wrong about that, too. Most, if not all, of these are no access roads. You don't get to bypass the gates on foot.

You're wrong about that, too. Most, if not all, of these are no access roads. You don't get to bypass the gates on foot.

I cannot attest to the specific land you've pictured or to applicable Oregon statues. I can attest to one's being able to enter all sorts of federal wilderness areas. One can freely walk into the wilderness, road, closed road, or no road. Backpackers do so routinely.

Not if they've marked it closed. And show me in our constitution where it says we are only allowed to access on foot?

 

[EverCurious]

No. It's about the illegal seizure of our public lands and the illegal control of our resources...public and private...by brownshirted thug agencies that shouldn't exist. And which are going to cease to exist soon...at least in the form they now assume.

Actually more about protection from idiots. Some people just ain't super bright. The area I grew up is fenced all the way up the canyon now because idiots would go up there to play in the creek, get drunk or high and not watch their own children. Several drowned and sued and won and so the whole place was fenced.

No, the idiots are the feds and the scumbags who travel, at the behest of the feds, to "enjoy" country they know nothing about.

This all came under federal control in the past thirty years or so. And since then, it has been degraded and destroyed. The dunes are gone, there are huge parking lots everywhere, you aren't allowed to fish, or walk, or drive back to the really nice and wild areas. Were funneled into tiny paved lots, jammed together on tiny slivers of land while hundreds of thousands and millions of acres are fenced off. Meanwhile the forest service jackhats tear all over the place, on the beaches were forbidden, on the roads we can't use, accessing the areas and resources that we aren't allowed to even look at.

after they closed the mills, our community turned increasingly to tourism. Now they've shut down that as well. Beaches and dunes closed, march through September. Snowy fucking plover.

You should come to Alaska, we have lots of wild area to wander around in (just make sure you pack a 45 to fend off bears and moose heh)

My cousin and her family homesteaded there. But the thing is...I want it to stop. You can't just keep running from fed control forever. There cones a point when you stand and we're at that point. Things were really close to bloodshed (and not just BLM and forest service and cops shooting campers and ranchers) before Trump. I'm glad he's hitting the EPA, BLM and dept of the interior hard because otherwise, people were going to start shooting. And once they start, they won't stop.

I think it needs to go back to state control frankly. Alaska managed it's own shit forever and we did an excellent job (its why we're now one of the top destinations in the world for wildlife.) Despite the left/greenies opinion that businesses ruin natural areas, it's not true, you just have to leverage the right businesses and offer the right incentives. Our state's second largest revenue is from Tourism damn straight we're going to ensure that folks visiting have access to the "wild beauty" they come up here to experience. We don't need lower 48 city fucks telling us how to manage land that we've tended to for over a century. I like to say; "You bastards already fucked up the lower 48, leave us alone." heh

 

[DigitalDrifter]

In

View attachment 126506 View attachment 126507 View attachment 126508 You know, the forests and lands the feds are taking money to maintain and hold for public enjoyment..

Is that around Sutton ?

Siltcoos. And some on Cape Mtn. Maybe one or two is Sutton...I hit them both today. My thumbnails are tiny so I can't really tell which is which when I choose them to upload.

Love to hike all over those areas. If there was just more sun. But then again, if there was, there would be five million more people.

 

[koshergrl]

No. It's about the illegal seizure of our public lands and the illegal control of our resources...public and private...by brownshirted thug agencies that shouldn't exist. And which are going to cease to exist soon...at least in the form they now assume.

Actually more about protection from idiots. Some people just ain't super bright. The area I grew up is fenced all the way up the canyon now because idiots would go up there to play in the creek, get drunk or high and not watch their own children. Several drowned and sued and won and so the whole place was fenced.

No, the idiots are the feds and the scumbags who travel, at the behest of the feds, to "enjoy" country they know nothing about.

This all came under federal control in the past thirty years or so. And since then, it has been degraded and destroyed. The dunes are gone, there are huge parking lots everywhere, you aren't allowed to fish, or walk, or drive back to the really nice and wild areas. Were funneled into tiny paved lots, jammed together on tiny slivers of land while hundreds of thousands and millions of acres are fenced off. Meanwhile the forest service jackhats tear all over the place, on the beaches were forbidden, on the roads we can't use, accessing the areas and resources that we aren't allowed to even look at.

after they closed the mills, our community turned increasingly to tourism. Now they've shut down that as well. Beaches and dunes closed, march through September. Snowy fucking plover.

You should come to Alaska, we have lots of wild area to wander around in (just make sure you pack a 45 to fend off bears and moose heh)

My cousin and her family homesteaded there. But the thing is...I want it to stop. You can't just keep running from fed control forever. There cones a point when you stand and we're at that point. Things were really close to bloodshed (and not just BLM and forest service and cops shooting campers and ranchers) before Trump. I'm glad he's hitting the EPA, BLM and dept of the interior hard because otherwise, people were going to start shooting. And once they start, they won't stop.

I think it needs to go back to state control frankly. Alaska managed it's own shit forever and we did an excellent job (its why we're now one of the top destinations in the world for wildlife.) Despite the left/greenies opinion that businesses ruin natural areas, it's not true, you just have to leverage the right businesses and offer the right incentives. Our state's second largest revenue is from Tourism damn straight we're going to ensure that folks visiting have access to the "wild beauty" they come up here to experience. We don't need lower 48 city fucks telling us how to manage land that we've tended to for over a century. I like to say; "You bastards already fucked up the lower 48, leave us alone." heh

exactly

 

[koshergrl]

They have no right to fence off the roads, most of which have been there for generations

Did you even look at the photo you took? I guess you need reminding that grass does grow over a road in the space of a few weeks. That road has been closed for quite some time.

oh they put the gates up as soon as they gain control of land. But you are wrong about the grass. This is the Oregon coast. The grass is everywhere and it is always green. These are all access roads that were being used when I was young.

oh they put the gates up as soon as they gain control of land.

See post 21. The government hasn't, for as long as there has been a state of Oregon, not had control of and/or authority over that particular piece of land.

Wrong again. Some of this property was owned by private citizens during my lifetime. Shut the fuck up and sit down, maybe you'll learn something.. Though I don't hold out much hope.

The relevant question, then, given the temporal range of "your lifetime," is who owns it now.

The people of Oregon own it. And have a right to the resources from it....and the right to use their own land as they please as well.

 

[Care4all]

In the State and federal parks near us, there are lots of entrances, like that with gates shut, but they are for maintenance travel only, like those coming in to mow the grassy edges of the drives or meadow areas, or for the crew that comes in and cuts up dead trees... btw, you can haul off that wood in the pile if you need some fire wood....that's why they try to leave stacks of it near the edge where you can drag it to a truck...

Eventually there will be one gate, larger and wider for two way traffic, that will be opened for cars

 

[HenryBHough]

Chuckling as I recall, some 20 years ago, a coastal group doing all sorts of fundraisers to buy a big chunk of land. The elderly owner offered a bargain price as he wanted the land to be available, when he was dead, to the public to enjoy. The group succeeded but turned the land over to The State of California which chipped in with a big cash infusion. Cash used to build a chain-link fence and "Public Property - NO ACCESS" signs.

 

[HenryBHough]

In the State and federal parks near us, there are lots of entrances, like that with gates shut, but they are for maintenance travel only, like those coming in to mow the grassy edges of the drives or meadow areas, or for the crew that comes in and cuts up dead trees... btw, you can haul off that wood in the pile if you need some fire wood....that's why they try to leave stacks of it near the edge where you can drag it to a truck...

Eventually there will be one gate, larger and wider for two way traffic, that will be opened for cars

Indeed there will eventually be that gate! And on that same day flying pigs will shit silver dollars.

We can count on it, can't we!

 

[RodISHI]

In the State and federal parks near us, there are lots of entrances, like that with gates shut, but they are for maintenance travel only, like those coming in to mow the grassy edges of the drives or meadow areas, or for the crew that comes in and cuts up dead trees... btw, you can haul off that wood in the pile if you need some fire wood....that's why they try to leave stacks of it near the edge where you can drag it to a truck...

Eventually there will be one gate, larger and wider for two way traffic, that will be opened for cars

In most places in the west if you even pick up a stick outside and some inside of a camp area you are breaking their rules. Common sense would say let someone use the deadwood.

You're wrong about that, too. Most, if not all, of these are no access roads. You don't get to bypass the gates on foot.

This is where you and xelor could come to some sort of moment.

The point is that I and my ancestors would not have been born here and and have anything at all to say had the European/U.S. governments not seized the land from its original inhabitants. Having the seized and in a few instances purchased those lands, the government obtained title to them.

I got your point its just not a good one in your justification of totally denying the public (the American citizen) access. Since you did bring it up though we could maybe consider why all of the sudden this land is totally off limits to the public. Do you think the government has the right to deny citizens access totally to public lands? If so why?

I got your point its just not a good one in your justification of totally denying the public (the American citizen) access.

While Koshergirl claims that one cannot enter the wooded area she pictured -- she hasn't even specifically identified the parcel -- and I'm in no position to speak to that specific piece of land, as goes public lands in general, the government does not "totally deny" public access.

The specious point is the one Koshergirl made about seizure, not my refutation of that point.

If a gate is in place and it says no public entry beyond this point you can be charged with trespassing and there are those places all over in the west now. You said just walk in. Even on foot the sign is forbidding to go beyond that point so why would you break the law by not following the orders they laid out with a sign?

 

[EverCurious]

Alaska is close to 70% owned by the government. We have very little limit on where folks can go and use our resources. Military bases and training areas obviously are off limits. We also have a couple wildlife preserves, the biggest around Denali that is only available to folks who win the annual lottery (our natural park people determine if there will be any form of hunting each year and if there's no hunting then the pass is only good for tourism, which can be worth more than the hunting is heh)

The vast majority of the state is basically free game, and as long as you get the hunting/fishing licenses for whatever you're hunting, and stay out of municipal and some tribal village hunting right of ways, you can take down anything. Whales, Polar Bears and other registered endangered animals fall under Fed rules; we're not always in agreement as to what constitutes "endangered" but our Troopers follow the fed laws so they'll arrest you and let the Feds deal with it. For the most part, hunt, fish, take pictures anywhere you want is the "essence" of Alaska - and we used to say "grow anything you want" but the Feds took our highway monies so we decided to humor them... on paper

 

[koshergrl]

,

Come on over koshergrl... we'll wander my seven acres of Missouri boonies and pretend we're breaking trail.

That's fun too lol.

 

[Muhammed]

Nice woods KG

But why the finger?

you see the gates, fences and signs proclaiming no entrance?

That wouldn't stop me.

 

[koshergrl]

In the State and federal parks near us, there are lots of entrances, like that with gates shut, but they are for maintenance travel only, like those coming in to mow the grassy edges of the drives or meadow areas, or for the crew that comes in and cuts up dead trees... btw, you can haul off that wood in the pile if you need some fire wood....that's why they try to leave stacks of it near the edge where you can drag it to a truck...

Eventually there will be one gate, larger and wider for two way traffic, that will be opened for cars

In most places in the west if you even pick up a stick outside and some inside of a camp area you are breaking their rules. Common sense would say let someone use the deadwood.

You're wrong about that, too. Most, if not all, of these are no access roads. You don't get to bypass the gates on foot.

This is where you and xelor could come to some sort of moment.

The point is that I and my ancestors would not have been born here and and have anything at all to say had the European/U.S. governments not seized the land from its original inhabitants. Having the seized and in a few instances purchased those lands, the government obtained title to them.

I got your point its just not a good one in your justification of totally denying the public (the American citizen) access. Since you did bring it up though we could maybe consider why all of the sudden this land is totally off limits to the public. Do you think the government has the right to deny citizens access totally to public lands? If so why?

I got your point its just not a good one in your justification of totally denying the public (the American citizen) access.

While Koshergirl claims that one cannot enter the wooded area she pictured -- she hasn't even specifically identified the parcel -- and I'm in no position to speak to that specific piece of land, as goes public lands in general, the government does not "totally deny" public access.

The specious point is the one Koshergirl made about seizure, not my refutation of that point.

If a gate is in place and it says no public entry beyond this point you can be charged with trespassing and there are those places all over in the west now. You said just walk in. Even on foot the sign is forbidding to go beyond that point so why would you break the law by not following the orders they laid out with a sign?

Besides which, ppl sometimes want to go further in than they can hike in and back in a day. There is no reason to prevent it.

 

[RodISHI]

In the State and federal parks near us, there are lots of entrances, like that with gates shut, but they are for maintenance travel only, like those coming in to mow the grassy edges of the drives or meadow areas, or for the crew that comes in and cuts up dead trees... btw, you can haul off that wood in the pile if you need some fire wood....that's why they try to leave stacks of it near the edge where you can drag it to a truck...

Eventually there will be one gate, larger and wider for two way traffic, that will be opened for cars

In most places in the west if you even pick up a stick outside and some inside of a camp area you are breaking their rules. Common sense would say let someone use the deadwood.

You're wrong about that, too. Most, if not all, of these are no access roads. You don't get to bypass the gates on foot.

This is where you and xelor could come to some sort of moment.

The point is that I and my ancestors would not have been born here and and have anything at all to say had the European/U.S. governments not seized the land from its original inhabitants. Having the seized and in a few instances purchased those lands, the government obtained title to them.

I got your point its just not a good one in your justification of totally denying the public (the American citizen) access. Since you did bring it up though we could maybe consider why all of the sudden this land is totally off limits to the public. Do you think the government has the right to deny citizens access totally to public lands? If so why?

I got your point its just not a good one in your justification of totally denying the public (the American citizen) access.

While Koshergirl claims that one cannot enter the wooded area she pictured -- she hasn't even specifically identified the parcel -- and I'm in no position to speak to that specific piece of land, as goes public lands in general, the government does not "totally deny" public access.

The specious point is the one Koshergirl made about seizure, not my refutation of that point.

If a gate is in place and it says no public entry beyond this point you can be charged with trespassing and there are those places all over in the west now. You said just walk in. Even on foot the sign is forbidding to go beyond that point so why would you break the law by not following the orders they laid out with a sign?

Besides which, ppl sometimes want to go further in than they can hike in and back in a day. There is no reason to prevent it.

I recall some of the areas we went to as a child there where a portion the fauna may need some protection but those are pretty rare. In Australia they have boardwalks in a few areas where plants grow that take generations to recover if they are crushed. Yellowstone has boardwalks in some areas too where foot traffic isn't feasible. I could see protecting those limited types of areas from foot traffic but for the most part foot traffic isn't going to hurt a thing. Motored vehicles can cause a lot of damage with idiots on them but a lot of older people now have them to get around on so they need trails for them too.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Seizure? Just who do you think holds, and has for as long the land has been part of the U.S., title to land that isn't privately held? If anyone has a right to complain about the seizure of lands, it's not you and I; it's the people who owned it before Europeans saw fit to take it from them.

I am so sick to death of hearing that bullshit lie.

Amerindians did not own property, as they had little concept of property and land ownership, so it did not belong to them before white Americans arrived, doofus.

 

[koshergrl]

In

View attachment 126506 View attachment 126507 View attachment 126508 You know, the forests and lands the feds are taking money to maintain and hold for public enjoyment..

Is that around Sutton ?

Siltcoos. And some on Cape Mtn. Maybe one or two is Sutton...I hit them both today. My thumbnails are tiny so I can't really tell which is which when I choose them to upload.

Love to hike all over those areas. If there was just more sun. But then again, if there was, there would be five million more people.

There are too many ppl.. And they are all forced to use the same areas. And the types of ppl..omg it's disgusting. We get a steady flood of dreadlocked mentally ill creeps who congregate and crap all over the place. The fucking forest service recruits them.

 

[EverCurious]

Ah here's the scoop on the Denali Lottery - Permit Area Facility Details - DENALI NATIONAL PARK - ROAD LOTTERY, AK - Recreation.gov

Three days in 6M acres of unspoiled wild Alaska. You can bring in as many people as legally fit in your vehicle. You can't "sell" you lottery ticket, but you can sell a ride in heh People rent tourist buses and make a few bucks sometimes. Good stuff though, you can go anywhere you want and there is basically no one around once you get past the lodge. I went once, still remember it as one of the most starkly beautiful areas I've ever visited up here.

(I may be a bit off on the location; but I think that is the Denali Lodge last time we went through (Denali was hiding out behind the clouds both days so it's hard to tell; we were headed to Fairbanks for a football game)

(This one I know is looking out over the Denali park land, it's right next to my second favorite spot to stop along the 600 mile drive. It even has a potty! Very important on 6hr drives heh Though it is classic Alaskan to pull off along the side of the road and take a snap shot of your son's peeing in the trees hehehe)

 

[JimBowie1958]

The point is that I and my ancestors would not have been born here and and have anything at all to say had the European/U.S. governments not seized the land from its original inhabitants.

So what? They seized it in turn from someone else as nations have doen with each other from the beginning of time.

The only difference is that we did not slaughter all of the Amerindians and those that chose to live peacefully with white Americans ( NOT Europeans) are STILL THERE!

Having the seized and in a few instances purchased those lands, the government obtained title to them.

Again, bullshit.

When the territories were turned into states, the state got the vast majority of that land, but after the Civil War, the Feds decided to hold on to all that land and not pass it on to the states so that they could sell railway right of ways, minr\eral rights, etc and make a ton of money under the table.

Look at the huge difference between states east of Texas vrs west of Texas.

The Federalis are not playing nice with western states.

 

[koshergrl]

Nice woods KG

But why the finger?

you see the gates, fences and signs proclaiming no entrance?

That wouldn't stop me.

Lol they patrol. But I was ready to order.a cetylene torch.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Ah here's the scoop on the Denali Lottery - Permit Area Facility Details - DENALI NATIONAL PARK - ROAD LOTTERY, AK - Recreation.gov

Three days in 6M acres of unspoiled wild Alaska. You can bring in as many people as legally fit in your vehicle. You can't "sell" you lottery ticket, but you can sell a ride in heh People rent tourist buses and make a few bucks sometimes. Good stuff though, you can go anywhere you want and there is basically no one around once you get past the lodge. I went once, still remember it as one of the most starkly beautiful areas I've ever visited up here.

(I may be a bit off on the location; but I think that is the Denali Lodge last time we went through (Denali was hiding out behind the clouds both days so it's hard to tell; we were headed to Fairbanks for a football game)
View attachment 126534

(This one I know is looking out over the Denali park land, it's right next to my second favorite spot to stop along the 600 mile drive. It even has a potty! Very important on 6hr drives heh Though it is classic Alaskan to pull off along the side of the road and take a snap shot of your son's peeing in the trees hehehe)
View attachment 126535

Bah!

If you've seen one Paradise, you've seen them all!