If I Shake my Fist at the Sky

[Pop23]

[

This is a common misconception that non-Christians have about Christians. Most if not all of you evidently believe that the Christian faith is merely a choice that we made. As if we weighed all the different possibilities and just went with what we thought was most probable... or worse, we just threw a dart at a dartboard and it landed on "Christianity."

Far from it. If you ask any Christian; every Christian; we will tell you that the faith was/is an inevitable consequence; the result of an inner transformation that can hardly be explained.

I had my transformative 'eureka' moment just over 10 years ago. I still remember it as if it just happened. I remember thinking it was just a phase--maybe even a psychotic break. But after a couple of days of trying to shake it off and explain it away... I surrendered myself to it. I remember having to explain to my wife... "You're not going to believe this.. but.."

To some people, it is a slow process that finally takes them over. For me, it was a sudden, unexpected, even shocking event... because before it happened I was as dead-set against Christians as just about anyone here.

Jesus speaks in the bible of a transformative, rebirth experience. It's where the (unnecessarily derogatory these days) term "born-again Christian" comes from. Jesus said that you can't be a faithful believer until you are reborn and become a completely different person (inwardly). Some professed Christians may have a hard time swallowing this, but, Jesus made it quite clear that without that experience, one simply isn't a Christian. The bible says we are all born enemies of God. Slaves to sin. The bible says that until we transform through the work of the Holy Spirit, we will remain enemies of God.

So don't shoot the messenger. I'm merely repeating the message of Scripture, and corroborating it from personal experience.

Horseshit. I was brought up Catholic.

the only reason I am not Catholic today is because when my mom got sick, and I prayed for her to get better, she didn't.

My sisters are STILL Catholic despite that. (Everyone knows NOT to talk about religion around Uncle Joe.)

So you can talk about being born again and how you found Jesus (I hear a lot of guys find him in prison), but at the end of the day, it's a big self-delusion.

This argument always blows me away, that because you ask you always get

God does answer all prayer, because he doesn't answer the way you find most pleasing is of no concern

When my father was close to the end I started praying he would be allowed to live. Then something inside me made me remember that a true Christian would embrace death as not the ending, but the beginning. At that point I asked for forgiveness for selfishly wanting more time with him instead of hoping gods will be done.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

I appreciate the faith, but there is no longer hope for me and the God of Abraham.

It's not a question of straying from practice, nor is it just a question of not believing. There is no hole to fill.

I do believe. I believe that the ancient stories are fiction and we owe our existence to Time, Luck & a warm, wet Mom.


Earth-Rise - YouTube

That's ok, Avg_Joe.

God believes in YOU!

 

[daws101]

the last several posts do show the power of indoctrination but no proof of god's actuality!
it's amazing what people will believe..

 

[Derideo_Te]

I appreciate the faith, but there is no longer hope for me and the God of Abraham.

It's not a question of straying from practice, nor is it just a question of not believing. There is no hole to fill.

I do believe. I believe that the ancient stories are fiction and we owe our existence to Time, Luck & a warm, wet Mom.


Earth-Rise - YouTube

That's ok, Avg_Joe.

God believes in YOU!

Which begs the question, Ilyar. Does your God also worship Avg_Joe?

 

[Caroljo]

If there is more to this life after death and, ass-u-me-ing we end up on the same side of the fence when we get there, I'd like to buy The Irish Ram whatever passes for a beer.

You ROCK, Kiddo!



Look me up if we're both wrong, eh?

HEY!!! I like beer too!! We can ALL have a party!!

 

[daws101]

I appreciate the faith, but there is no longer hope for me and the God of Abraham.

It's not a question of straying from practice, nor is it just a question of not believing. There is no hole to fill.

I do believe. I believe that the ancient stories are fiction and we owe our existence to Time, Luck & a warm, wet Mom.


Earth-Rise - YouTube

That's ok, Avg_Joe.

God believes in YOU!

Which begs the question, Ilyar. Does your God also worship Avg_Joe?

no. but he does loan AJ money at a very low interest.

 

[Derideo_Te]

That's ok, Avg_Joe.

God believes in YOU!

Which begs the question, Ilyar. Does your God also worship Avg_Joe?

no. but he does loan AJ money at a very low interest.

Jesus saves but God invests?

 

[daws101]

Which begs the question, Ilyar. Does your God also worship Avg_Joe?

no. but he does loan AJ money at a very low interest.

Jesus saves but God invests?

you could say that but that begs the question why does god need money or where does he bank?

 

[Pop23]

the last several posts do show the power of indoctrination but no proof of god's actuality!
it's amazing what people will believe..

But it goes without saying

It does not prove the opposite either

 

[Pop23]

no. but he does loan AJ money at a very low interest.

Jesus saves but God invests?

you could say that but that begs the question why does god need money or where does he bank?

Anywhere he wants

 

[daws101]

the last several posts do show the power of indoctrination but no proof of god's actuality!
it's amazing what people will believe..

But it goes without saying

It does not prove the opposite either

that's part of my point.
because there is no quantifiable evidence either way, why is it people think (or wish) it to be a possibility?last time I checked,no evidence meant no evidence.
clear as mud ..right?

 

[daws101]

Jesus saves but God invests?

you could say that but that begs the question why does god need money or where does he bank?

Anywhere he wants

lol!

 

[IlarMeilyr]

I appreciate the faith, but there is no longer hope for me and the God of Abraham.

It's not a question of straying from practice, nor is it just a question of not believing. There is no hole to fill.

I do believe. I believe that the ancient stories are fiction and we owe our existence to Time, Luck & a warm, wet Mom.


Earth-Rise - YouTube

That's ok, Avg_Joe.

God believes in YOU!

Which begs the question, Ilyar. Does your God also worship Avg_Joe?

Actually, the phrase "your God" is what begs a question:

Do you imagine we have different divine Creators?

Or, as I gather, do you assume that there simply is NO God?

Your assumption (if the latter) could be wrong. Thus, "my" God would also be YOUR God -- even if you happen not to believe in His existence.

As for whether God worships any of His own creations, although I doubt it, my own information is simply insufficient to answer your inquiry.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

To stir up the mud just a tad:

A LACK of evidence would necessarily mean that the proponent of a proposition would be left unable to meet his or her burden of persuasion on that matter.

But not being able to PROVE something is simply not the same as evidence that the proposition is false.

 

[Caroljo]

[

This is a common misconception that non-Christians have about Christians. Most if not all of you evidently believe that the Christian faith is merely a choice that we made. As if we weighed all the different possibilities and just went with what we thought was most probable... or worse, we just threw a dart at a dartboard and it landed on "Christianity."

Far from it. If you ask any Christian; every Christian; we will tell you that the faith was/is an inevitable consequence; the result of an inner transformation that can hardly be explained.

I had my transformative 'eureka' moment just over 10 years ago. I still remember it as if it just happened. I remember thinking it was just a phase--maybe even a psychotic break. But after a couple of days of trying to shake it off and explain it away... I surrendered myself to it. I remember having to explain to my wife... "You're not going to believe this.. but.."

To some people, it is a slow process that finally takes them over. For me, it was a sudden, unexpected, even shocking event... because before it happened I was as dead-set against Christians as just about anyone here.

Jesus speaks in the bible of a transformative, rebirth experience. It's where the (unnecessarily derogatory these days) term "born-again Christian" comes from. Jesus said that you can't be a faithful believer until you are reborn and become a completely different person (inwardly). Some professed Christians may have a hard time swallowing this, but, Jesus made it quite clear that without that experience, one simply isn't a Christian. The bible says we are all born enemies of God. Slaves to sin. The bible says that until we transform through the work of the Holy Spirit, we will remain enemies of God.

So don't shoot the messenger. I'm merely repeating the message of Scripture, and corroborating it from personal experience.

Horseshit. I was brought up Catholic.

the only reason I am not Catholic today is because when my mom got sick, and I prayed for her to get better, she didn't.

My sisters are STILL Catholic despite that. (Everyone knows NOT to talk about religion around Uncle Joe.)

So you can talk about being born again and how you found Jesus (I hear a lot of guys find him in prison), but at the end of the day, it's a big self-delusion.

I usually get bashed for this, but it's how I feel. If you were raised Catholic, then I understand your bitter feelings today. Try something else - Christians don't pray to the "saints" for intercession or other help. The Bible CLEARLY states you to ONLY to God through His Son Jesus Christ. If you have people, like the Catholics, praying to statues, then they are not truly Christians. Besides all the other "rules" the Catholic church has. All man made.

I don't believe you have to go to any church either to be a Christian. I have a hard time attending church because of the man made rules they all have. If God didn't come out and say something is bad and don't do it, then I'm not going to worry about it. And no human is going to tell me I'm sinning when God never made it a "rule".

 

[Derideo_Te]

That's ok, Avg_Joe.

God believes in YOU!

Which begs the question, Ilyar. Does your God also worship Avg_Joe?

Actually, the phrase "your God" is what begs a question:

Do you imagine we have different divine Creators?

Or, as I gather, do you assume that there simply is NO God?

Your assumption (if the latter) could be wrong. Thus, "my" God would also be YOUR God -- even if you happen not to believe in His existence.

As for whether God worships any of His own creations, although I doubt it, my own information is simply insufficient to answer your inquiry.

You spoke for your God when you claimed that he believed in AJ. Since your God is only known to you there is no way for us to find out what he worships without asking you. (Perhaps he worships himself instead of AJ.) But then you claim a paucity of information about your God. Although you believe that he exists you cannot prove it but somehow you "know" that he "believes" in AJ.

From the perspective of someone other than yourself these are called "mixed messages". You have every right to believe as you wish and I will repeat that I will defend your right. However when you make claims about your God you can expect that others will want more than just your word for it.

 

[SillyWabbit]

Just to throw this thread off on another tangent...

Even if you accept that the Universe has a design and purpose, how do you get to "The Abrahamic God must be THE God"?

Only one out of three humans alive believe in the Abrahamic God. So even if you accept Islam, Christianity and Judaism is "Kind of" right, half the world's population has it completely wrong.

And what abut the rest of the universe?

If those poor dumb bastards can't recognize the True Lord it's no one's fault but their own. They'll burn right alongside the pedophiles and atheists.

Amen.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Which begs the question, Ilyar. Does your God also worship Avg_Joe?

Actually, the phrase "your God" is what begs a question:

Do you imagine we have different divine Creators?

Or, as I gather, do you assume that there simply is NO God?

Your assumption (if the latter) could be wrong. Thus, "my" God would also be YOUR God -- even if you happen not to believe in His existence.

As for whether God worships any of His own creations, although I doubt it, my own information is simply insufficient to answer your inquiry.

You spoke for your God when you claimed that he believed in AJ. Since your God is only known to you there is no way for us to find out what he worships without asking you. (Perhaps he worships himself instead of AJ.) But then you claim a paucity of information about your God. Although you believe that he exists you cannot prove it but somehow you "know" that he "believes" in AJ.

From the perspective of someone other than yourself these are called "mixed messages". You have every right to believe as you wish and I will repeat that I will defend your right. However when you make claims about your God you can expect that others will want more than just your word for it.

I believe what I believe. I do not claim proof that my beliefs are "true." Indeed, I doubt anybody alive today is capable of "proving" either the existence of God or His non existence.

As for your rather petty concern with "mixed messages," I feel the need to clue you in, since you are getting a wee bit bent out of shape, evidently. So here it is in a tight little package, just for you:

You ARE taking all of this too seriously. What you call "my" God either exists or He does not. Furthermore, when I make a representation about God believing in Avg-Joe or anyone else, I do not, in fact, "expect" you to take my claim at face value. Indeed, it was an old line. Kind of just a bit of jocularity.

IF God exists, and you happen not to believe in Him, that does not mean that He does not exist OR that He does not believe in you. On the other hand, IF He does NOT exist, then it doesn't matter WHAT I say or what anybody else says about "Him;" now does it?

 

[Pop23]

the last several posts do show the power of indoctrination but no proof of god's actuality!
it's amazing what people will believe..

But it goes without saying

It does not prove the opposite either

that's part of my point.
because there is no quantifiable evidence either way, why is it people think (or wish) it to be a possibility?last time I checked,no evidence meant no evidence.
clear as mud ..right?

You speak in human terms, or terms you can understand, which by definition is limited.

A higher spirit would not be limited to such.

You say the Big Bang started this whole thing we call the world, not a God. I would say sure, but it was God that caused the Big Bang

Those two "realities" do not have to be mutually exclusive, but can easily coexist

Am I right, Hell yes I think I'm right, I really don't care if anyone else does

Cheers!

 

[Derideo_Te]

Actually, the phrase "your God" is what begs a question:

Do you imagine we have different divine Creators?

Or, as I gather, do you assume that there simply is NO God?

Your assumption (if the latter) could be wrong. Thus, "my" God would also be YOUR God -- even if you happen not to believe in His existence.

As for whether God worships any of His own creations, although I doubt it, my own information is simply insufficient to answer your inquiry.

You spoke for your God when you claimed that he believed in AJ. Since your God is only known to you there is no way for us to find out what he worships without asking you. (Perhaps he worships himself instead of AJ.) But then you claim a paucity of information about your God. Although you believe that he exists you cannot prove it but somehow you "know" that he "believes" in AJ.

From the perspective of someone other than yourself these are called "mixed messages". You have every right to believe as you wish and I will repeat that I will defend your right. However when you make claims about your God you can expect that others will want more than just your word for it.

I believe what I believe. I do not claim proof that my beliefs are "true." Indeed, I doubt anybody alive today is capable of "proving" either the existence of God or His non existence.

As for your rather petty concern with "mixed messages," I feel the need to clue you in, since you are getting a wee bit bent out of shape, evidently. So here it is in a tight little package, just for you:

You ARE taking all of this too seriously. What you call "my" God either exists or He does not. Furthermore, when I make a representation about God believing in Avg-Joe or anyone else, I do not, in fact, "expect" you to take my claim at face value. Indeed, it was an old line. Kind of just a bit of jocularity.

IF God exists, and you happen not to believe in Him, that does not mean that He does not exist OR that He does not believe in you. On the other hand, IF He does NOT exist, then it doesn't matter WHAT I say or what anybody else says about "Him;" now does it?

At no point did I intend to cast any aspersions on the veracity of your beliefs. I am also well aware that it is impossible to prove the existence of any God, let alone yours, so I was not expecting you to do so.

Far from getting bent out of shape I was just taking a lighthearted approach to pointing out the inconsistencies in your posts. Hopefully you didn't take any offense since none was intended.

Peace
DT