If I Shake my Fist at the Sky

[AVG-JOE]

Actually, the phrase "your God" is what begs a question:

Do you imagine we have different divine Creators?

Or, as I gather, do you assume that there simply is NO God?

Your assumption (if the latter) could be wrong. Thus, "my" God would also be YOUR God -- even if you happen not to believe in His existence.

As for whether God worships any of His own creations, although I doubt it, my own information is simply insufficient to answer your inquiry.

You spoke for your God when you claimed that he believed in AJ. Since your God is only known to you there is no way for us to find out what he worships without asking you. (Perhaps he worships himself instead of AJ.) But then you claim a paucity of information about your God. Although you believe that he exists you cannot prove it but somehow you "know" that he "believes" in AJ.

From the perspective of someone other than yourself these are called "mixed messages". You have every right to believe as you wish and I will repeat that I will defend your right. However when you make claims about your God you can expect that others will want more than just your word for it.

I believe what I believe. I do not claim proof that my beliefs are "true." Indeed, I doubt anybody alive today is capable of "proving" either the existence of God or His non existence.

As for your rather petty concern with "mixed messages," I feel the need to clue you in, since you are getting a wee bit bent out of shape, evidently. So here it is in a tight little package, just for you:

You ARE taking all of this too seriously. What you call "my" God either exists or He does not. Furthermore, when I make a representation about God believing in Avg-Joe or anyone else, I do not, in fact, "expect" you to take my claim at face value. Indeed, it was an old line. Kind of just a bit of jocularity.

IF God exists, and you happen not to believe in Him, that does not mean that He does not exist OR that He does not believe in you. On the other hand, IF He does NOT exist, then it doesn't matter WHAT I say or what anybody else says about "Him;" now does it?

​

Exactly!
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D9vAItORgE]Guns N' Roses - Live And Let Die - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Agent.Tom]

And what abut the rest of the universe?

I always say that some people are going to be right and a LOT of other people are going to be REEEEALLYYYYY surprised

It's for that reason I can't ever be a believer.

What kind of cruel asshole would God be that he would send a perfectly nice Japanese person to Hell for just being born in Japan, but he'd let an Asshole in the west go to heaven for saying the right prayers.

The consensus among the clergy in the Christian Church is, no one goes to hell if they are not given a choice to make. The bible doesn't address the scenario you describe.

In short, if you buy Christian Dogma, Ann Frank is burning in Hell right next to Hitler, and Jeffrey Dahmner is sitting on a cloud.

In short, that statement is utterly and completely without merit. Frankly ( ) it sounds like sour grapes more than anything. Whatever it is, it certainly isn't based in fact.

After All Anne didn't accept "Jesus" into her soul. She's going to hell.

How do you know? Any special insights you care to share with us?

Meanwhile, somewhere between killing and eating 19 guys and getting his brains smashed in by a fellow inmate, Chef Jeff found Jesus!!!

(a) How do you know he found Jesus? (b) How do you know he died a faithful Christian believer? (c) Take solace in the fact that (so says the bible) you can commit sins for an extended period of time and in great numbers, but it's almost never too late to repent and be saved. Consider the alternative. I guess you would prefer that anyone who commits a sin should never be forgiven.

Seriously, how fucked up is that?

Your post? Yes, a similar question crossed my mind.

 

[Agent.Tom]

I've always wondered why death is such a goofy subject in a country where so many claim to know where death's door leads.

Symptom? Evidence?​

I agree, that's actually an excellent question. I often wonder why so many try to live to be 135 when the belief is that the end brings eternal life.

Some fear death, some don't, but only a few cheer their own

First of all, death isn't a "goofy" subject to Christians at least. In fact, the only ones who it should be such a sensitive, "goofy" subject to, would be those who believe in no afterlife. Because to them, death is the end-all to your existence and all that matters to you is the here and now. An Atheist should tremble in fear at the thought of death.

As far as Christians (for example) wanting to live a long life even though we know that death will bring about unimaginable joy for us... I can at least attest to my personal view. I want to live the longest life possible because (and I admit this is shallow) I want to see and experience the awesome technological advances that await us. Selfishly I want to be able to experience true computer generated virtual reality. That sounds so incredible, I just want to see it. But I am utterly convinced that when I die, my want for these things will be completely trumped by the peace and joy I will experience in the afterlife.

But I will admit -- for there to be faith, there must necessarily be at least a tiny possibility that we are wrong. If there were no possibility that we are wrong in our faith, then our faith would necessarily become knowledge. Faith in part is overcoming doubt and disbelief and being certain of something we cannot prove to ourselves or see or touch. Because there is that small possibility that we are wrong in our faith, it must also follow that we do, on some level, fear death. And besides... if you ask a lot of Christians they will tell you their faith is weak and they aren't even 100% sure they will make it to heaven... thus adding more to the fear of death.

 

[Caroljo]

If there is more to this life after death and, ass-u-me-ing we end up on the same side of the fence when we get there, I'd like to buy The Irish Ram whatever passes for a beer.

You ROCK, Kiddo!



Look me up if we're both wrong, eh?

HEY!!! I like beer too!! We can ALL have a party!!

​

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntkC-o52weI]Dr. Demonto - In Heaven There is no Beer - YouTube[/ame]

We'll have to meet in New Orleans before we die.

Well...back in Jesus's time there was no mention of "beer". But He did like wine! I don't know where people get the idea that it's not ok to have some "spirits". Jesus made water into wine....the only thing he said against drinking is to not be a fool and a drunkard. A pastor I had once said he believe Jesus was speaking of "fermented grape juice". But why would Jesus worry about that? Jesus was talking about drinks that can make you a drunk. He's saying you need to use your head and not let it take you over....he never said it was a sin.

 

[Caroljo]

the last several posts do show the power of indoctrination but no proof of god's actuality!
it's amazing what people will believe..

God is not going to just show up and PROVE himself to us. He wants us to to know Him thought belief and faith. If He were to just pop up and show himself to everyone on earth, it would be like forcing himself on us. He wants to know that we will believe in Him even though we have never seen Him. He sent us His Holy Spirit to speak to us for Him, and anyone that has the HS knows Him. You would never understand unless you experience it.

 

[BreezeWood]

it only stands to reason, the Pearly Gates are passed by ones last breath not afterwards.

 

[Agent.Tom]

2 opposing, but equally valid viewpoints:

"A true Christian should never fear death."

"A humble Christian would never presume to be so righteous that God would withhold judgment."

 

[AVG-JOE]

the last several posts do show the power of indoctrination but no proof of god's actuality!
it's amazing what people will believe..

God is not going to just show up and PROVE himself to us. He wants us to to know Him thought belief and faith. If He were to just pop up and show himself to everyone on earth, it would be like forcing himself on us. He wants to know that we will believe in Him even though we have never seen Him. He sent us His Holy Spirit to speak to us for Him, and anyone that has the HS knows Him. You would never understand unless you experience it.

Why?

 

[AVG-JOE]

The proof part.

Why can't God part a sea or drop a perfect pillar of fire in time for the 6:00 news?

Why does proof of God have to be impossible?

 

[Pop23]

The proof part.

Why can't God part a sea or drop a perfect pillar of fire in time for the 6:00 news?

Why does proof of God have to be impossible?

When you see him, ask him

I went to a catholic school. A sure way to get after school detention was to ask a nun this question.

If God is all powerful can he make a boulder so large that even he can't move it?

One day this girl I liked got detention for skipping glass. I figured if I also got detention I could spend some time with her, so I found a Nun, got into a discussion and asked "the" question...

She replied. Silly question, of course he can

She started to walk away and said loudly

"Until he changes his mind"

 

[speck]

Fictitiously?

That depends on how a person chooses to view life. I view life as a gift that was given by a God that created the Earth, humans and a book (Bible) to help us understand it all.

How's that working out for you? Do you feel lucky?

Fortunate.

 

[JoeB131]

[

To the bold:
The way I have always been taught (not saying anyone is right or wrong, just trying to clarify a falsehood) is that; when we are brought to Judgement - whether we've been told of the Gospel or not - HIS glory and majesty will be revealed. THAT is when you are given the chance to 'recognize'. IF you choose to scoff at HIM, at that time, then your fate is your own.


In short, since I DO "buy Christian dogma", no one is in "hell".
Their bodies are in Hades (pit) awaiting Judgement.
And only two or three humans are "sitting on a cloud" somewhere.

No wonder you're so incensed by Christianity.
You don't even know what you're criticizing.

At least, talking with Joe, he's come from it and has more insight.

Guy, I was brought up Catholic. The ORIGINAL article, you might say. That is EXACTLY what they taught. The Bhuddists were going to hell. The Protestants were going to hell. YOu were going to hell if you ate meat during Lent.

Shit, man, Christianity can't fucking exist without threatening people with Hell.

Frankly, I have no use for a worthless, mean-spirited philosophy.

 

[daws101]

the last several posts do show the power of indoctrination but no proof of god's actuality!
it's amazing what people will believe..

God is not going to just show up and PROVE himself to us. He wants us to to know Him thought belief and faith. If He were to just pop up and show himself to everyone on earth, it would be like forcing himself on us. He wants to know that we will believe in Him even though we have never seen Him. He sent us His Holy Spirit to speak to us for Him, and anyone that has the HS knows Him. You would never understand unless you experience it.

not this shit again! " You would never understand unless you experience it".......
what you're ranting about is a completely subjective experience.....
I've done hundreds of evangelical "meetings" all the conversions I've seen are self hypnosis.

 

[daws101]

the last several posts do show the power of indoctrination but no proof of god's actuality!
it's amazing what people will believe..

God is not going to just show up and PROVE himself to us. He wants us to to know Him thought belief and faith. If He were to just pop up and show himself to everyone on earth, it would be like forcing himself on us. He wants to know that we will believe in Him even though we have never seen Him. He sent us His Holy Spirit to speak to us for Him, and anyone that has the HS knows Him. You would never understand unless you experience it.

Why?

I was thinking that myself...

 

[IlarMeilyr]

I believe in the existence of a Creator.

I have yet to find any reason to believe that a Being capable of creating the heaven and the Earth, the atoms, the Big Bang, life itself, the stars, the planets, the galaxies, black holes, gravity, time and space and everything in between would find it in any way necessary -- or even desirable -- to have us (human beings) "worship" Him.

 

[Pop23]

the last several posts do show the power of indoctrination but no proof of god's actuality!
it's amazing what people will believe..

God is not going to just show up and PROVE himself to us. He wants us to to know Him thought belief and faith. If He were to just pop up and show himself to everyone on earth, it would be like forcing himself on us. He wants to know that we will believe in Him even though we have never seen Him. He sent us His Holy Spirit to speak to us for Him, and anyone that has the HS knows Him. You would never understand unless you experience it.

not this shit again! " You would never understand unless you experience it".......
what you're ranting about is a completely subjective experience.....
I've done hundreds of evangelical "meetings" all the conversions I've seen are self hypnosis.

Ok, consider for a second that you are the God. I could ask you to reveal yourself to me and because i don't see the "reveal" I consider you a hoax

You, being the God may not have revealed to me because, really, why should you? No real reason except maybe vanity. Or you say to yourself " reveal myself?, what the heck, I have a thousand times already today, weren't you paying attention?"

Just sayin

 

[daws101]

I believe in the existence of a Creator.

I have yet to find any reason to believe that a Being capable of creating the heaven and the Earth, the atoms, the Big Bang, life itself, the stars, the planets, the galaxies, black holes, gravity, time and space and everything in between would find it in any way necessary -- or even desirable -- to have us (human beings) "worship" Him.

what if "he" had a messiah complex?

 

[IlarMeilyr]

I believe in the existence of a Creator.

I have yet to find any reason to believe that a Being capable of creating the heaven and the Earth, the atoms, the Big Bang, life itself, the stars, the planets, the galaxies, black holes, gravity, time and space and everything in between would find it in any way necessary -- or even desirable -- to have us (human beings) "worship" Him.

what if "he" had a messiah complex?

What if we postulate that the Creator of All is also mentally unbalanced, you mean?

I dunno.

I doubt there's much we could do about it.

 

[daws101]

God is not going to just show up and PROVE himself to us. He wants us to to know Him thought belief and faith. If He were to just pop up and show himself to everyone on earth, it would be like forcing himself on us. He wants to know that we will believe in Him even though we have never seen Him. He sent us His Holy Spirit to speak to us for Him, and anyone that has the HS knows Him. You would never understand unless you experience it.

not this shit again! " You would never understand unless you experience it".......
what you're ranting about is a completely subjective experience.....
I've done hundreds of evangelical "meetings" all the conversions I've seen are self hypnosis.

Ok, consider for a second that you are the God. I could ask you to reveal yourself to me and because i don't see the "reveal" I consider you a hoax

You, being the God may not have revealed to me because, really, why should you? No real reason except maybe vanity. Or you say to yourself " reveal myself?, what the heck, I have a thousand times already today, weren't you paying attention?"

Just sayin

don't take offence to this, but you are ascribing human traits to a "being" that (I hate to use this word ) should be past such petty things..
why would god not show himself if honestly asked to do so..?
Imo most people are either too self involved or inattentive to notice "god's" signs ,if any.
seems a bitch slap from on high is the only way to get their attention.

 

[daws101]

I believe in the existence of a Creator.

I have yet to find any reason to believe that a Being capable of creating the heaven and the Earth, the atoms, the Big Bang, life itself, the stars, the planets, the galaxies, black holes, gravity, time and space and everything in between would find it in any way necessary -- or even desirable -- to have us (human beings) "worship" Him.

what if "he" had a messiah complex?

What if we postulate that the Creator of All is also mentally unbalanced, you mean?

I dunno.

I doubt there's much we could do about it.

it would go along way in explaining some of the odder aspects of faith. don't ya think.?