If I Shake my Fist at the Sky

[hortysir]

Just to throw this thread off on another tangent...

Even if you accept that the Universe has a design and purpose, how do you get to "The Abrahamic God must be THE God"?

Only one out of three humans alive believe in the Abrahamic God. So even if you accept Islam, Christianity and Judaism is "Kind of" right, half the world's population has it completely wrong.

And what abut the rest of the universe?

I always say that some people are going to be right and a LOT of other people are going to be REEEEALLYYYYY surprised

It's for that reason I can't ever be a believer.

What kind of cruel asshole would God be that he would send a perfectly nice Japanese person to Hell for just being born in Japan, but he'd let an Asshole in the west go to heaven for saying the right prayers.

In short, if you buy Christian Dogma, Ann Frank is burning in Hell right next to Hitler, and Jeffrey Dahmner is sitting on a cloud.

After All Anne didn't accept "Jesus" into her soul. She's going to hell.

Meanwhile, somewhere between killing and eating 19 guys and getting his brains smashed in by a fellow inmate, Chef Jeff found Jesus!!!

Seriously, how fucked up is that?

To the bold:
The way I have always been taught (not saying anyone is right or wrong, just trying to clarify a falsehood) is that; when we are brought to Judgement - whether we've been told of the Gospel or not - HIS glory and majesty will be revealed. THAT is when you are given the chance to 'recognize'. IF you choose to scoff at HIM, at that time, then your fate is your own.


In short, since I DO "buy Christian dogma", no one is in "hell".
Their bodies are in Hades (pit) awaiting Judgement.
And only two or three humans are "sitting on a cloud" somewhere.

No wonder you're so incensed by Christianity.
You don't even know what you're criticizing.

At least, talking with Joe, he's come from it and has more insight.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

You spoke for your God when you claimed that he believed in AJ. Since your God is only known to you there is no way for us to find out what he worships without asking you. (Perhaps he worships himself instead of AJ.) But then you claim a paucity of information about your God. Although you believe that he exists you cannot prove it but somehow you "know" that he "believes" in AJ.

From the perspective of someone other than yourself these are called "mixed messages". You have every right to believe as you wish and I will repeat that I will defend your right. However when you make claims about your God you can expect that others will want more than just your word for it.

I believe what I believe. I do not claim proof that my beliefs are "true." Indeed, I doubt anybody alive today is capable of "proving" either the existence of God or His non existence.

As for your rather petty concern with "mixed messages," I feel the need to clue you in, since you are getting a wee bit bent out of shape, evidently. So here it is in a tight little package, just for you:

You ARE taking all of this too seriously. What you call "my" God either exists or He does not. Furthermore, when I make a representation about God believing in Avg-Joe or anyone else, I do not, in fact, "expect" you to take my claim at face value. Indeed, it was an old line. Kind of just a bit of jocularity.

IF God exists, and you happen not to believe in Him, that does not mean that He does not exist OR that He does not believe in you. On the other hand, IF He does NOT exist, then it doesn't matter WHAT I say or what anybody else says about "Him;" now does it?

At no point did I intend to cast any aspersions on the veracity of your beliefs. I am also well aware that it is impossible to prove the existence of any God, let alone yours, so I was not expecting you to do so.

Far from getting bent out of shape I was just taking a lighthearted approach to pointing out the inconsistencies in your posts. Hopefully you didn't take any offense since none was intended.

Peace
DT

Nah. It really is all good.

If I came across too "sharp" in my prior post (i.e., if I acted like a douche), I apologize.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I believe what I believe. I do not claim proof that my beliefs are "true." Indeed, I doubt anybody alive today is capable of "proving" either the existence of God or His non existence.

As for your rather petty concern with "mixed messages," I feel the need to clue you in, since you are getting a wee bit bent out of shape, evidently. So here it is in a tight little package, just for you:

You ARE taking all of this too seriously. What you call "my" God either exists or He does not. Furthermore, when I make a representation about God believing in Avg-Joe or anyone else, I do not, in fact, "expect" you to take my claim at face value. Indeed, it was an old line. Kind of just a bit of jocularity.

IF God exists, and you happen not to believe in Him, that does not mean that He does not exist OR that He does not believe in you. On the other hand, IF He does NOT exist, then it doesn't matter WHAT I say or what anybody else says about "Him;" now does it?

At no point did I intend to cast any aspersions on the veracity of your beliefs. I am also well aware that it is impossible to prove the existence of any God, let alone yours, so I was not expecting you to do so.

Far from getting bent out of shape I was just taking a lighthearted approach to pointing out the inconsistencies in your posts. Hopefully you didn't take any offense since none was intended.

Peace
DT

Nah. It really is all good.

If I came across too "sharp" in my prior post (i.e., if I acted like a douche), I apologize.

Not at all. We are good and I admire your ability to be honest about yourself.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Just to throw this thread off on another tangent...

Even if you accept that the Universe has a design and purpose, how do you get to "The Abrahamic God must be THE God"?

Only one out of three humans alive believe in the Abrahamic God. So even if you accept Islam, Christianity and Judaism is "Kind of" right, half the world's population has it completely wrong.

And what abut the rest of the universe?

If those poor dumb bastards can't recognize the True Lord it's no one's fault but their own. They'll burn right alongside the pedophiles and atheists.

Amen.

How does that make you feeeeeeeeeeel?

Kind of superior, eh?​

Monkeys crack me up!!

 

[SillyWabbit]

Superior? Hell yeah. I once saw the Virgin Mary in a dump I took. I know I got my spot in heaven.

Of course, that was after 3 days solid of drinking...

 

[IlarMeilyr]

At no point did I intend to cast any aspersions on the veracity of your beliefs. I am also well aware that it is impossible to prove the existence of any God, let alone yours, so I was not expecting you to do so.

Far from getting bent out of shape I was just taking a lighthearted approach to pointing out the inconsistencies in your posts. Hopefully you didn't take any offense since none was intended.

Peace
DT

Nah. It really is all good.

If I came across too "sharp" in my prior post (i.e., if I acted like a douche), I apologize.

Not at all. We are good and I admire your ability to be honest about yourself.

I see what you did there.

 

[Pop23]

I think the funny part of arguing if there is or is not a God, is the only way to find out if your correct is to Die

I think I'll leave the fight up to you folks for now

See you all on the flips side.......

Maybe

 

[IlarMeilyr]

I think the funny part of arguing if there is or is not a God, is the only way to find out if [you're] correct is to Die

* * * *

Unless there aint no God and there aint no afterlife.

Because, THEN, when you die, you don't "find out" ANYTHING at all.

 

[Pop23]

I think the funny part of arguing if there is or is not a God, is the only way to find out if [you're] correct is to Die

* * * *

Unless there aint no God and there aint no afterlife.

Because, THEN, when you die, you don't "find out" ANYTHING at all.

Kinda hard to collect on bets then?

 

[IlarMeilyr]

I think the funny part of arguing if there is or is not a God, is the only way to find out if [you're] correct is to Die

* * * *

Unless there aint no God and there aint no afterlife.

Because, THEN, when you die, you don't "find out" ANYTHING at all.

Kinda hard to collect on bets then?

Shhhh. Don't mention the word "bet" around here. It sets off the usual suspects.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Nah. It really is all good.

If I came across too "sharp" in my prior post (i.e., if I acted like a douche), I apologize.

Not at all. We are good and I admire your ability to be honest about yourself.

I see what you did there.

I know you won't believe me but that was unintentional.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Fictitiously?

That depends on how a person chooses to view life. I view life as a gift that was given by a God that created the Earth, humans and a book (Bible) to help us understand it all.

How's that working out for you? Do you feel lucky?

 

[AVG-JOE]

[

This is a common misconception that non-Christians have about Christians. Most if not all of you evidently believe that the Christian faith is merely a choice that we made. As if we weighed all the different possibilities and just went with what we thought was most probable... or worse, we just threw a dart at a dartboard and it landed on "Christianity."

Far from it. If you ask any Christian; every Christian; we will tell you that the faith was/is an inevitable consequence; the result of an inner transformation that can hardly be explained.

I had my transformative 'eureka' moment just over 10 years ago. I still remember it as if it just happened. I remember thinking it was just a phase--maybe even a psychotic break. But after a couple of days of trying to shake it off and explain it away... I surrendered myself to it. I remember having to explain to my wife... "You're not going to believe this.. but.."

To some people, it is a slow process that finally takes them over. For me, it was a sudden, unexpected, even shocking event... because before it happened I was as dead-set against Christians as just about anyone here.

Jesus speaks in the bible of a transformative, rebirth experience. It's where the (unnecessarily derogatory these days) term "born-again Christian" comes from. Jesus said that you can't be a faithful believer until you are reborn and become a completely different person (inwardly). Some professed Christians may have a hard time swallowing this, but, Jesus made it quite clear that without that experience, one simply isn't a Christian. The bible says we are all born enemies of God. Slaves to sin. The bible says that until we transform through the work of the Holy Spirit, we will remain enemies of God.

So don't shoot the messenger. I'm merely repeating the message of Scripture, and corroborating it from personal experience.

Horseshit. I was brought up Catholic.

the only reason I am not Catholic today is because when my mom got sick, and I prayed for her to get better, she didn't.

My sisters are STILL Catholic despite that. (Everyone knows NOT to talk about religion around Uncle Joe.)

So you can talk about being born again and how you found Jesus (I hear a lot of guys find him in prison), but at the end of the day, it's a big self-delusion.

This argument always blows me away, that because you ask you always get

God does answer all prayer, because he doesn't answer the way you find most pleasing is of no concern

When my father was close to the end I started praying he would be allowed to live. Then something inside me made me remember that a true Christian would embrace death as not the ending, but the beginning. At that point I asked for forgiveness for selfishly wanting more time with him instead of hoping gods will be done.

I've always wondered why death is such a goofy subject in a country where so many claim to know where death's door leads.

Symptom? Evidence?​

 

[AVG-JOE]

I appreciate the faith, but there is no longer hope for me and the God of Abraham.

It's not a question of straying from practice, nor is it just a question of not believing. There is no hole to fill.

I do believe. I believe that the ancient stories are fiction and we owe our existence to Time, Luck & a warm, wet Mom.


Earth-Rise - YouTube

That's ok, Avg_Joe.

God believes in YOU!

Oh yeah?

Which God? ​

 

[AVG-JOE]

I appreciate the faith, but there is no longer hope for me and the God of Abraham.

It's not a question of straying from practice, nor is it just a question of not believing. There is no hole to fill.

I do believe. I believe that the ancient stories are fiction and we owe our existence to Time, Luck & a warm, wet Mom.


Earth-Rise - YouTube

That's ok, Avg_Joe.

God believes in YOU!

Which begs the question, Ilyar. Does your God also worship Avg_Joe?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9rous6L0nc]Joe Satriani - God is Crying HD - YouTube[/ame]

 

[AVG-JOE]

If there is more to this life after death and, ass-u-me-ing we end up on the same side of the fence when we get there, I'd like to buy The Irish Ram whatever passes for a beer.

You ROCK, Kiddo!



Look me up if we're both wrong, eh?

HEY!!! I like beer too!! We can ALL have a party!!

​

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntkC-o52weI]Dr. Demonto - In Heaven There is no Beer - YouTube[/ame]

We'll have to meet in New Orleans before we die.

 

[AVG-JOE]

no. but he does loan AJ money at a very low interest.

Jesus saves but God invests?

you could say that but that begs the question why does god need money or where does he bank?

​

THAT'S how the Federal Reserve can afford to buy $80 billion worth of bonds every year!

 

[AVG-JOE]

the last several posts do show the power of indoctrination but no proof of god's actuality!
it's amazing what people will believe..

But it goes without saying

It does not prove the opposite either

True Dat...

The great UNKNOWN!​

Any mans guess is as good as the next mans!

 

[Pop23]

Horseshit. I was brought up Catholic.

the only reason I am not Catholic today is because when my mom got sick, and I prayed for her to get better, she didn't.

My sisters are STILL Catholic despite that. (Everyone knows NOT to talk about religion around Uncle Joe.)

So you can talk about being born again and how you found Jesus (I hear a lot of guys find him in prison), but at the end of the day, it's a big self-delusion.

This argument always blows me away, that because you ask you always get

God does answer all prayer, because he doesn't answer the way you find most pleasing is of no concern

When my father was close to the end I started praying he would be allowed to live. Then something inside me made me remember that a true Christian would embrace death as not the ending, but the beginning. At that point I asked for forgiveness for selfishly wanting more time with him instead of hoping gods will be done.

I've always wondered why death is such a goofy subject in a country where so many claim to know where death's door leads.

Symptom? Evidence?​

I agree, that's actually an excellent question. I often wonder why so many try to live to be 135 when the belief is that the end brings eternal life.

Some fear death, some don't, but only a few cheer their own

 

[AVG-JOE]

To stir up the mud just a tad:

A LACK of evidence would necessarily mean that the proponent of a proposition would be left unable to meet his or her burden of persuasion on that matter.

But not being able to PROVE something is simply not the same as evidence that the proposition is false.

Fortunately, they can never take away your right to believe whatever 'evidence' floats your boat. Nor can they take away mine. To each his / her own.

If a dusty ol' book gives you comfort, wear that fucker out and then buy yourself a new one.

Just thank (insert your preferred Deity here) that we live in America where Civil Law trumps Religious Law and you don't have to live by mine, nor I by yours.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkZC7sqImaM]John Lennon - Give Peace A Chance - YouTube[/ame]