If I Shake my Fist at the Sky

[daws101]

If I shake my fist at the sky and declare to God that I am impressed with neither his presence nor his proofs to date, and I challenge the aforementioned God to kill me now or forever be regarded and described by me as fictitious, does that prove anything?

Somewhere there is an ant shaking it's foreleg at the sky, making the same ultimatum.

"I challenge the aforementioned Giant Boot to kill me now or forever be regarded and described by me as fictitious!"

only one problem with that. the ant knows the giant boot and other ant killers exist,also the giant boot knows the ant exists.
WE on the other hand assume a giant sky fairy exists..

 

[daws101]

Oh? Really? Where do they "say" the singularity CAME from?

In fact, since I am not a scientist (according to rderp I may not even be an example of the 94% of non liberal Democrats who aren't scientists, since I am not even a Republican) and most certainly not a physicist much less a quantum physicist, my grasp on all this stuff is more akin to a freshman philosophy student trying to puzzle some shit out. But some bright people come to ask the very same type of questions that I keep bumping up against.

Check THIS out: -- Where Did the "Singularity" that Caused the Big Bang Come From? - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

Quantum mechanics shows that "nothing," as a philosophical concept, does not exist. There is always a quantum field with random fluctuations.

There are many well-respected physicists, such as Stephen Hawking, Lawrence Krauss, Sean M. Carroll, Victor Stenger, Michio Kaku, Alan Guth, Alex Vilenkin, Robert A.J. Matthews, and Nobel laureate Frank Wilczek, who have created scientific models where the Big Bang and thus the entire universe could arise from nothing but a random quantum vacuum fluctuation in the quantum field -- via natural processes.

In relativity, gravity is negative energy, and matter and photons are positive energy. Because negative and positive energy seem to be equal in absolute total value, our observable universe appears balanced to the sum of zero. Our universe could thus have come into existence without violating conservation of mass and energy — with the matter of the universe condensing out of the positive energy as the universe cooled, and gravity created from the negative energy.

Where did the singularity which caused the Big Bang magically come from? - Yahoo! UK & Ireland Answers

ALL non answers. No joke. Where did a "quantum field" come from?

What "thing" led to any fluctuation in it?

Without being TOO much of a wise ass: phlogiston does not cause "fire."

as already mentioned why did the quantum field have to come from anywhere? it's just as likely it had always been there.

 

[Missourian]

If I shake my fist at the sky and declare to God that I am impressed with neither his presence nor his proofs to date, and I challenge the aforementioned God to kill me now or forever be regarded and described by me as fictitious, does that prove anything?

Somewhere there is an ant shaking it's foreleg at the sky, making the same ultimatum.

"I challenge the aforementioned Giant Boot to kill me now or forever be regarded and described by me as fictitious!"

only one problem with that. the ant knows the giant boot and other ant killers exist,also the giant boot knows the ant exists.
WE on the other hand assume a giant sky fairy exists..

Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

I know there is a God.

When the ant challenges the Giant Boot, and is not smote, it does not prove that the Giant Boot does not exist.

And that is the point.

 

[daws101]

Somewhere there is an ant shaking it's foreleg at the sky, making the same ultimatum.

"I challenge the aforementioned Giant Boot to kill me now or forever be regarded and described by me as fictitious!"

only one problem with that. the ant knows the giant boot and other ant killers exist,also the giant boot knows the ant exists.
WE on the other hand assume a giant sky fairy exists..

Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

I know there is a God.

When the ant challenges the Giant Boot, and is not smote, it does not prove that the Giant Boot does not exist.

And that is the point.

do you have an invisible sky fairy detector in your pocket?
that would be (other than a public appearance by god )the only way you could "know there is a god. all other examples like miracles and other religious phenomenon can and have been explained by other means.

 

[Missourian]

only one problem with that. the ant knows the giant boot and other ant killers exist,also the giant boot knows the ant exists.
WE on the other hand assume a giant sky fairy exists..

Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

I know there is a God.

When the ant challenges the Giant Boot, and is not smote, it does not prove that the Giant Boot does not exist.

And that is the point.

do you have an invisible sky fairy detector in your pocket?
that would be (other than a public appearance by god )the only way you could "know there is a god. all other examples like miracles and other religious phenomenon can and have been explained by other means.

You are fooling yourself Brother Daws.

Jesus told the Pharisees the same thing 2000 years ago.

They demanded a sign.

They also had explained miracles "by other means".

You somehow believe you are something new, unique.

But you are not.

What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.

Ecclesiastes 1:9



​

 

[daws101]

Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

I know there is a God.

When the ant challenges the Giant Boot, and is not smote, it does not prove that the Giant Boot does not exist.

And that is the point.

do you have an invisible sky fairy detector in your pocket?
that would be (other than a public appearance by god )the only way you could "know there is a god. all other examples like miracles and other religious phenomenon can and have been explained by other means.

You are fooling yourself Brother Daws.

Jesus told the Pharisees the same thing 2000 years ago.

They demanded a sign.

They also had explained miracles "by other means".

You somehow believe you are something new, unique.

But you are not.

What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.

Ecclesiastes 1:9



​

two things 1.I'm not your fucking brother.
2. you're falsely assuming you know anything about me..you don't
as to being unique, we are all unique, at the same time we are all the same.
I'm not asking any new or different question about the assumed existence of god.
what's different is, I can voice these question /criticism with out having to worry about little things like being stoned or burned at the stake etc.. all very christian punishments for asking question about ..you know who...
oh and btw THIS Ecclesiastes 1:9 is out of context.

 

[Pop23]

Awesome lightening and thunderstorms happening as I write.....

​

There you go!

You see? ....Heaven is answering you after all!

Storm's over ​

Missed me, missed me! Now you gotta kiss me!!




Is mocking God as bad as shaking my fist in challenge?

You stayed inside, didn't ya Joe!

Just sayin?

Trust the force. Lol

 

[daws101]

There you go!

You see? ....Heaven is answering you after all!

Storm's over ​

Missed me, missed me! Now you gotta kiss me!!




Is mocking God as bad as shaking my fist in challenge?

You stayed inside, didn't ya Joe!

Just sayin?

Trust the force. Lol

the lightning could have gone through the computer !

 

[AVG-JOE]

If I shake my fist at the sky and declare to God that I am impressed with neither his presence nor his proofs to date, and I challenge the aforementioned God to kill me now or forever be regarded and described by me as fictitious, does that prove anything?

Somewhere there is an ant shaking it's foreleg at the sky, making the same ultimatum.

"I challenge the aforementioned Giant Boot to kill me now or forever be regarded and described by me as fictitious!"

Not true. Monkeys are Sentient and therefore we can have a God to challenge.

Ants are not Sentient. Though ants and sparrows may be important to God, God matters not to either. They simply live.

Neither has an understanding of death, therefore neither ant nor sparrow has a need for God. Monkeys are a bit more complex.

 

[Missourian]

do you have an invisible sky fairy detector in your pocket?
that would be (other than a public appearance by god )the only way you could "know there is a god. all other examples like miracles and other religious phenomenon can and have been explained by other means.

You are fooling yourself Brother Daws.

Jesus told the Pharisees the same thing 2000 years ago.

They demanded a sign.

They also had explained miracles "by other means".

You somehow believe you are something new, unique.

But you are not.

What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.

Ecclesiastes 1:9



​

two things 1.I'm not your fucking brother.
2. you're falsely assuming you know anything about me..you don't
as to being unique, we are all unique, at the same time we are all the same.
I'm not asking any new or different question about the assumed existence of god.
what's different is, I can voice these question /criticism with out having to worry about little things like being stoned or burned at the stake etc.. all very christian punishments for asking question about ..you know who...
oh and btw THIS Ecclesiastes 1:9 is out of context.

Well, so much for rational discussion...

Next time, try to keep your demons under control Mr. Daws.

 

[AVG-JOE]

There you go!

You see? ....Heaven is answering you after all!

Storm's over ​

Missed me, missed me! Now you gotta kiss me!!




Is mocking God as bad as shaking my fist in challenge?

You stayed inside, didn't ya Joe!

Just sayin?

Trust the force. Lol

Of course! I've no faith in God... I'm not stupid.

The monsters and I got a perimeter walk in before the downpour, which we watched through a window.

 

[Agent.Tom]

Of course! I've no faith in God... I'm not stupid.

You are one of the few critics here who shows the ability to think outside the confines of the dogma you embrace, without shrieking and recoiling in horror. I like that about you. You are comfortable enough in your own skin to discuss even things you don't necessarily believe.

That's why it baffles me when you come off with a statement like the above. Do you really think that anyone who has faith in God is stupid?

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Quantum mechanics shows that "nothing," as a philosophical concept, does not exist. There is always a quantum field with random fluctuations.

There are many well-respected physicists, such as Stephen Hawking, Lawrence Krauss, Sean M. Carroll, Victor Stenger, Michio Kaku, Alan Guth, Alex Vilenkin, Robert A.J. Matthews, and Nobel laureate Frank Wilczek, who have created scientific models where the Big Bang and thus the entire universe could arise from nothing but a random quantum vacuum fluctuation in the quantum field -- via natural processes.

In relativity, gravity is negative energy, and matter and photons are positive energy. Because negative and positive energy seem to be equal in absolute total value, our observable universe appears balanced to the sum of zero. Our universe could thus have come into existence without violating conservation of mass and energy — with the matter of the universe condensing out of the positive energy as the universe cooled, and gravity created from the negative energy.

Where did the singularity which caused the Big Bang magically come from? - Yahoo! UK & Ireland Answers

ALL non answers. No joke. Where did a "quantum field" come from?

What "thing" led to any fluctuation in it?

Without being TOO much of a wise ass: phlogiston does not cause "fire."

as already mentioned why did the quantum field have to come from anywhere? it's just as likely it had always been there.

Then it existed without being created?

And you are "comfortable" with this non-answer AS your "answer?"

 

[AVG-JOE]

Of course! I've no faith in God... I'm not stupid.

You are one of the few critics here who shows the ability to think outside the confines of the dogma you embrace, without shrieking and recoiling in horror. I like that about you. You are comfortable enough in your own skin to discuss even things you don't necessarily believe.

That's why it baffles me when you come off with a statement like the above. Do you really think that anyone who has faith in God is stupid?

No. I think that Monkeys with better options who stand out side in the rain are stupid.

​

 

[Pop23]

Storm's over ​

Missed me, missed me! Now you gotta kiss me!!




Is mocking God as bad as shaking my fist in challenge?

You stayed inside, didn't ya Joe!

Just sayin?

Trust the force. Lol

Of course! I've no faith in God... I'm not stupid.

The monsters and I got a perimeter walk in before the downpour, which we watched through a window.

Interested in the answer, just not THAT interested. Probably a good move Joe.

I'm outta this thread. It's really not fair since he's my BFF, and gives me the Cliff notes.

 

[hortysir]

If I shake my fist at the sky and declare to God that I am impressed with neither his presence nor his proofs to date, and I challenge the aforementioned God to kill me now or forever be regarded and described by me as fictitious, does that prove anything?

Somewhere there is an ant shaking it's foreleg at the sky, making the same ultimatum.

"I challenge the aforementioned Giant Boot to kill me now or forever be regarded and described by me as fictitious!"

I use that analogy quite often, in that we can;t grasp the concept of "God" any more than that ant can grasp where that boot comes from

 

[BreezeWood]

Not true. Monkeys are Sentient and therefore we can have a God to challenge.

Ants are not Sentient. Though ants and sparrows may be important to God, God matters not to either. They simply live.

Neither has an understanding of death, therefore neither ant nor sparrow has a need for God. Monkeys are a bit more complex.

They simply live.

that's not your course Joe ?


you needn't include the Flora and Fauna as conspirators to your own denial ...

nor irrationally a Sentient that does not include them.

 

[Caroljo]

the last several posts do show the power of indoctrination but no proof of god's actuality!
it's amazing what people will believe..

God is not going to just show up and PROVE himself to us. He wants us to to know Him thought belief and faith. If He were to just pop up and show himself to everyone on earth, it would be like forcing himself on us. He wants to know that we will believe in Him even though we have never seen Him. He sent us His Holy Spirit to speak to us for Him, and anyone that has the HS knows Him. You would never understand unless you experience it.

Why?

He is actually revealing Himself to us through the Holy Spirit. The HS is within ALL believers, and He actually talks to us through the HS. Do you have a conscience? It's sort of like that...you get this "feeling", something's telling you to do or not do something which could be good or bad. Then you decide if what you're feeling is of God. Would God give you the urge to rob a bank, or attack some person to steal from them? I don't think so...He's there telling you that's really not a good idea. He wants us to do the right thing and He's always there to help us with it. Because we're human and we can make some pretty dumb decisions on our own! But like I said, it's hard to explain to someone that most likely doesn't have the HS in them. That's what's so hard for people to understand.

 

[Caroljo]

the last several posts do show the power of indoctrination but no proof of god's actuality!
it's amazing what people will believe..

God is not going to just show up and PROVE himself to us. He wants us to to know Him thought belief and faith. If He were to just pop up and show himself to everyone on earth, it would be like forcing himself on us. He wants to know that we will believe in Him even though we have never seen Him. He sent us His Holy Spirit to speak to us for Him, and anyone that has the HS knows Him. You would never understand unless you experience it.

not this shit again! " You would never understand unless you experience it".......
what you're ranting about is a completely subjective experience.....
I've done hundreds of evangelical "meetings" all the conversions I've seen are self hypnosis.

Well...can't help that that's the way it is. All believers have the HS, they know what it's like. If you don't have it, you don't understand it, plain and simple. No self hypnosis involved. Wasn't for me anyway. All I know for sure is I've been through some ordeals that I know I only got through with God's help. You can believe it or not, doesn't really matter to me because I know what He did for me and has done many times.

 

[Caroljo]

The proof part.

Why can't God part a sea or drop a perfect pillar of fire in time for the 6:00 news?

Why does proof of God have to be impossible?

I have proof enough. I am utterly and completely convinced of God's existence. And yet, all the personal experiences I have had can only translate in me being convinced. It seems clear to me that, for whatever reason, God's intent is to reveal Himself to people, usually one person at a time, using His own time table. Now that I'm a believer, I don't get bogged down in questions like, "Why did God wait until 10 years ago to reveal Himself to me," or, "Why did God reveal Himself to me, but not others close to me?" Those are interesting questions, but what's important right now is that I'm a believer and that won't change. I talk to people; I try to remove the barriers they put between themselves and God; I try to help reveal the truth and dispel misconceptions and dishonest claims; I do what I can. But ultimately no one I speak with or try to convince, will truly believe until God--through what's called the "Holy Spirit," effectuates change within that person.

I like what you have to say, and what you say certainly explains some of the current conditions in evidence on the ground, but it still doesn't explain why God refuses to provide crowd-stunning proof of Himself, when the ancient stories are peppered with spectacular reveals.

I like what you have to say about your personal experience with Divine revelation, but the question remains:

Why does God refuse to reveal Himself in the here-and-now, given His supposed history of newsworthy events?​

I think he just gives everyone the same "chance" to accept Him. He's most likely done things in your life that if you'd really been paying attention you would have seen Him at work. But too many people are too busy to pay attention to things like that.

He will someday reveal Himself to everyone....and the way this world is, I'd be surprised if it weren't soon! But when He does, there will STILL be people rejecting Him.