If there is a God...

[BreezeWood]

So because we don't yet know everything, that points to an invisible superbeing in another dimension that nobody has ever seen or been to? Quite cartoonish, I would say.

What we do know is that there is the scientific law of cause and effect. Nothing happens without something or someone else causing it to happen. That's what science demonstrates beyond any doubt whatsoever. Now tell me. Who or what caused the universe to exist? I think it was God. Who or what do you think is responsible?

If it was god, according to you "Nothing happens without something or someone else causing it to happen", something had to have made god.

Your ignorance is appalling.

Your lack of a proper response is appalling.

Nope. Simply stating a fact. The law of cause and affect applies here. The universe had to have a cause for it's existence. That's a scientific fact. Since nothing physical can create itself, the universe requires a Creator. A Creator who has no beginning. Just like Scripture states. Simple logic, backed by scientific fact.

.

The universe had to have a cause for it's existence.

how do you define, nothing ...

 

[RWNJ]

What we do know is that there is the scientific law of cause and effect. Nothing happens without something or someone else causing it to happen. That's what science demonstrates beyond any doubt whatsoever. Now tell me. Who or what caused the universe to exist? I think it was God. Who or what do you think is responsible?

If it was god, according to you "Nothing happens without something or someone else causing it to happen", something had to have made god.

Your ignorance is appalling.

Your lack of a proper response is appalling.

Nope. Simply stating a fact. The law of cause and affect applies here. The universe had to have a cause for it's existence. That's a scientific fact. Since nothing physical can create itself, the universe requires a Creator. A Creator who has no beginning. Just like Scripture states. Simple logic, backed by scientific fact.

.

The universe had to have a cause for it's existence.

how do you define, nothing ...

There is only one definition for nothing. It's in the dictionary. Look it up.

 

[task0778]

" How does a non-physical being create a physical universe? Why is that logical? "

Non physical forces are responsible for the existence of the physical universe. They are called universal physical constants. They are non material laws that govern everything from gravity, to subatomic forces. So why does the thought of a non physical God creating a physical universe seem illogical to you?

Physical constants are not physical?

The question is why assuming that a non-physical being created the universe is logical, rather than dismissing the possibility.

From Encyclopedia Britannica:

Physical constant, any of a set of fundamental invariant quantities observed in nature and appearing in the basic theoretical equations of physics. Accurate evaluation of these constants is essential in order to check the correctness of the theories and to allow useful applications to be made on the basis of those theories.

The speed of light in a vacuum (c) appears in electromagnetic theory and in relativity theory; in the latter it relates energy to mass through the equation E = mc2. Its value does not depend on any particular experimental conditions such as would affect the speed of a sound wave in air (for which air temperature and the direction and speed of any wind would matter). It is a universal constant of nature.

Physical constant

I don't think that a universal constant of nature can be assumed to exist before nature itself does. One can theorize about all sorts of possibilities, any one of which might be true or none of them either. Reality may be beyond our comprehension or reasoning, or maybe we just don't have enough data yet. But it seems foolish to me to rule anything out.

The universe (nature) could not exist unless the physical constants had already existed. It is the physical constants which shape our physical universe. To believe otherwise is putting the cart before the horse.

That is an assumption with no actual basis in fact. I would argue that in order for any physical constants to exist there first has to be a physical universe from which to discern truths about it. Thought I learned some time back that at the exact microsecond of the Big Bang the laws of nature did not exist, and that at some miniscule fraction of a second after the BB is when the laws of nature came into being.

But you know what? When it comes to the question of God does it really matter? Something or someone created both the universe and the laws of nature that tell us how it works, what does it matter which came 1st?

 

[hobelim]

But you know what? When it comes to the question of God does it really matter? Something or someone created both the universe and the laws of nature that tell us how it works, what does it matter which came 1st?

I suspect that right wind nut jobs who argue from faith about the beginning of the universe for years on end without resolution are avoiding the responsibility of facing more relevant issues about their faith that can be proven one way or the other..

 

[ding]

But you know what? When it comes to the question of God does it really matter? Something or someone created both the universe and the laws of nature that tell us how it works, what does it matter which came 1st?

I suspect that right wind nut jobs who argue from faith about the beginning of the universe for years on end without resolution are avoiding the responsibility of facing more relevant issues about their faith that can be proven one way or the other..

Your logic is flawed. We are told to study what he has created so that we are not without excuse.

With that said, most people will be brought face to face with their faith over the course of a long human life.

You do not understand what I am doing, so you mock it.

 

[hobelim]

But you know what? When it comes to the question of God does it really matter? Something or someone created both the universe and the laws of nature that tell us how it works, what does it matter which came 1st?

I suspect that right wind nut jobs who argue from faith about the beginning of the universe for years on end without resolution are avoiding the responsibility of facing more relevant issues about their faith that can be proven one way or the other..

Your logic is flawed. We are told to study what he has created so that we are not without excuse.

With that said, most people will be brought face to face with their faith over the course of a long human life.

You do not understand what I am doing, so you mock it.

Maybe you should restrict your studies to human beings and your beliefs about Jesus.

When you face the fact that there never was and never will be a human being was God or became God, then maybe you will stop trying to hide behind questions about the beginning of the universe, a colossal waste of time.


Heck you might even realize that the story of the creation has nothing whatever to do with the beginning of the universe or solar system.

You will never comprehend the true subject of the story until you do.

 

[ding]

But you know what? When it comes to the question of God does it really matter? Something or someone created both the universe and the laws of nature that tell us how it works, what does it matter which came 1st?

I suspect that right wind nut jobs who argue from faith about the beginning of the universe for years on end without resolution are avoiding the responsibility of facing more relevant issues about their faith that can be proven one way or the other..

Your logic is flawed. We are told to study what he has created so that we are not without excuse.

With that said, most people will be brought face to face with their faith over the course of a long human life.

You do not understand what I am doing, so you mock it.

Maybe you should restrict your studies to human beings and your beliefs about Jesus.

When you face the fact that there never was and never will be human being was God or became God, then maybe you will stop trying to hide behind questions about the beginning of the universe.

Heck you might even realize that the story of the creation has nothing whatever to do with the beginning of the universe or solar system.

You will never comprehend the subjects of the story until you do.

Sounds like you want to change subjects.

 

[hobelim]

But you know what? When it comes to the question of God does it really matter? Something or someone created both the universe and the laws of nature that tell us how it works, what does it matter which came 1st?

I suspect that right wind nut jobs who argue from faith about the beginning of the universe for years on end without resolution are avoiding the responsibility of facing more relevant issues about their faith that can be proven one way or the other..

Your logic is flawed. We are told to study what he has created so that we are not without excuse.

With that said, most people will be brought face to face with their faith over the course of a long human life.

You do not understand what I am doing, so you mock it.

Maybe you should restrict your studies to human beings and your beliefs about Jesus.

When you face the fact that there never was and never will be human being was God or became God, then maybe you will stop trying to hide behind questions about the beginning of the universe.

Heck you might even realize that the story of the creation has nothing whatever to do with the beginning of the universe or solar system.

You will never comprehend the subjects of the story until you do.

Sounds like you want to change subjects.

Wrong...you do because....

If there is a God he was never a human being..

 

[ding]

But you know what? When it comes to the question of God does it really matter? Something or someone created both the universe and the laws of nature that tell us how it works, what does it matter which came 1st?

I suspect that right wind nut jobs who argue from faith about the beginning of the universe for years on end without resolution are avoiding the responsibility of facing more relevant issues about their faith that can be proven one way or the other..

Your logic is flawed. We are told to study what he has created so that we are not without excuse.

With that said, most people will be brought face to face with their faith over the course of a long human life.

You do not understand what I am doing, so you mock it.

Maybe you should restrict your studies to human beings and your beliefs about Jesus.

When you face the fact that there never was and never will be human being was God or became God, then maybe you will stop trying to hide behind questions about the beginning of the universe.

Heck you might even realize that the story of the creation has nothing whatever to do with the beginning of the universe or solar system.

You will never comprehend the subjects of the story until you do.

Sounds like you want to change subjects.

Wrong...you do because....

If there is a God he was never a human being..

The point I am arguing is that we can learn things about God by studying what he has created, and we should.

You are off on a tangent.

 

[hobelim]

I suspect that right wind nut jobs who argue from faith about the beginning of the universe for years on end without resolution are avoiding the responsibility of facing more relevant issues about their faith that can be proven one way or the other..

Your logic is flawed. We are told to study what he has created so that we are not without excuse.

With that said, most people will be brought face to face with their faith over the course of a long human life.

You do not understand what I am doing, so you mock it.

Maybe you should restrict your studies to human beings and your beliefs about Jesus.

When you face the fact that there never was and never will be human being was God or became God, then maybe you will stop trying to hide behind questions about the beginning of the universe.

Heck you might even realize that the story of the creation has nothing whatever to do with the beginning of the universe or solar system.

You will never comprehend the subjects of the story until you do.

Sounds like you want to change subjects.

Wrong...you do because....

If there is a God he was never a human being..

The point I am arguing is that we can learn things about God by studying what he has created, and we should.

You are off on a tangent.

The question of the thread is if there is a God.

The story of the creation is not a story about the beginning of the universe or the solar system. Neither is it about the creation of the earth the sky, or the fist plants, animals, or human beings.

If you want to study what God created you have to first understand the subjects of the creation story.

Do you think people forget that you believe that God was a human being when you argue about God creating everything?

 

[ding]

Your logic is flawed. We are told to study what he has created so that we are not without excuse.

With that said, most people will be brought face to face with their faith over the course of a long human life.

You do not understand what I am doing, so you mock it.

Maybe you should restrict your studies to human beings and your beliefs about Jesus.

When you face the fact that there never was and never will be human being was God or became God, then maybe you will stop trying to hide behind questions about the beginning of the universe.

Heck you might even realize that the story of the creation has nothing whatever to do with the beginning of the universe or solar system.

You will never comprehend the subjects of the story until you do.

Sounds like you want to change subjects.

Wrong...you do because....

If there is a God he was never a human being..

The point I am arguing is that we can learn things about God by studying what he has created, and we should.

You are off on a tangent.

The question of the thread is if there is a God.

The story of the creation is not a story about the beginning of the universe or the solar system. Neither is it about the creation of the earth the sky, or the fist plants, animals, or human beings.

If you want to study what God created you have to first understand the subjects of the creation story.

Yes, but this part of the discussion is whether it has any value to study what he created to learn more about him. A premise you scoffed at and then tried to change the subject to the trinity and the divinity of Jesus.

No. I can study what God created independent of scripture. In fact, that is the preferred method.

 

[hobelim]

Maybe you should restrict your studies to human beings and your beliefs about Jesus.

When you face the fact that there never was and never will be human being was God or became God, then maybe you will stop trying to hide behind questions about the beginning of the universe.

Heck you might even realize that the story of the creation has nothing whatever to do with the beginning of the universe or solar system.

You will never comprehend the subjects of the story until you do.

Sounds like you want to change subjects.

Wrong...you do because....

If there is a God he was never a human being..

The point I am arguing is that we can learn things about God by studying what he has created, and we should.

You are off on a tangent.

The question of the thread is if there is a God.

The story of the creation is not a story about the beginning of the universe or the solar system. Neither is it about the creation of the earth the sky, or the fist plants, animals, or human beings.

If you want to study what God created you have to first understand the subjects of the creation story.

Yes, but this part of the discussion is whether it has any value to study what he created to learn more about him. A premise you scoffed at and then tried to change the subject to the trinity and the divinity of Jesus.

No. I can study what God created independent of scripture. In fact, that is the preferred method.

The story about the creation of heaven and earth is not about anything that happened 14 billion years ago.

Independent of scripture there is no record of God creating anything.

If you do not know what the stories are about, you can't study what God created..


Arguing about the origins of the physical world does not hide your errors about the divinity of Jesus or your irrational belief about some false, yet edible, three for the price of one God who poofed the universe into existence with the spoken word 14 billion years ago yet was somehow witnessed and recorded by men who lived 6000 years ago.

 

[ding]

If you do not know what the stories are about, you can't study what God created..

I can absolutely study what God created.

And you are still trying to change the subject.

 

[hobelim]

If you do not know what the stories are about, you can't study what God created..

I can absolutely study what God created.

And you are still trying to change the subject.

If you don't understand the subjects of the creation story, you don't know what God created.

If you don't know what God created, how can you study it?

 

[sealybobo]

You are kidding, right?

Do you know that they can't even identify where consciousness resides in the brain? It's not understood how clusters of neurons from the diverse regions of the brain collaborate to form consciousness. There's no evidence that there is one site for consciousness. They think it is truly a collective neural effort.

And you are still going to play games, bro? C'mon. Elevate your game and have a real discussion.

And still you refuse to define the evolutionary advancement you are talking about. "Elevate your game"? If you can't provide a definition for the basic premise of your argument, perhaps you are the one who need to "elevate your game."

Also, yet again, what does it matter if consciousness is the most "evolutionary advanced" thing humanity is aware of? How does that make it the most "evolutionary advanced" thing in the universe? Are you honestly trying to claim that humanity is aware of everything in the universe to know that nothing else could be more "evolutionary advanced"?

It matters because it is true and it goes to my point that creation of intelligence is the purpose of the universe.

My worldview doesn't require me to ignore the reality around me. No wonder you get "F"'s.

Aren't you ignoring the fact that you don't know what is in most of the universe? Or is that not reality for some reason?

And you still have not explained what you mean by "evolutionary advanced." Does it mean the most complex? Highest on the food chain?

Behold the Most Complicated Object in the Known Universe

Did you miss the use of the phrase "known universe"? Do you understand that indicates the most complicated object that humanity is aware of, and not the most complicated object in the entire universe? Are you also aware that the words "complicated" and "advanced" are not the same? I've asked you repeatedly how you are defining "evolutionary advanced." Does this mean you are defining it to mean "complicated"?

There's also the fact that this statement is most likely a bit flippant, and does not adequately define the terms being used. For example, are the brains of other animals all less complex than a human brain? I've seen the long finned pilot whale estimated to have twice as many neurons in the cerebral cortex as humans.
How is object being defined? Wouldn't an entire human being be more complex than just a human brain? What about the population of the planet, made up of billions of humans, not to mention all the other life forms? Wouldn't the Earth be more complex than just a brain?

But again, however object and complexity are being defined, that quote from Kaku is about the known universe. I am pretty confident that Mr. Kaku would readily admit there are vast amounts of things in the universe that humanity does not know about.

The more I learn about the universe the more I doubt the existence of a creator but recently I’ve been watching How the universe works and they were comparing our solar system to others. Ours is very different than all the others and those differences are why life is here on this planet.

Most stars have all of their planets orbiting closer to their star than mercury does our sun. Most have super earths.

Anyways, I’m not saying this proves a god exists. I’m just saying I can see how theists would believes this confirms a god does exist and indeed we are special.

And we are. At least in our solar system we are the crown jewel. And at this time but it won’t always be this way. Planet 9 might screw up our whole system

Perhaps the other solar systems just haven’t had planets form in habitable zones yet or they did already but each solar system is like a toilet bowl and the sun is the drain. We are all moving slowly towards the drain.

Maybe one day all our planets will be as close to the sun as mercury. Then no life will exist here. The day will come. So if things being born and dying is natural why does a god need to be involved?

 

[ding]

If you do not know what the stories are about, you can't study what God created..

I can absolutely study what God created.

And you are still trying to change the subject.

If you don't understand the subjects of the creation story, you don't know what God created.

If you don't know what God created, how can you study it?

I am apart of his creation. Everything that exists in the universe is part of his creation. Everything that has happened since space and time were created is a part of his creation. I'm pretty sure I can study it.

How would you study what he created?

 

[ding]

And still you refuse to define the evolutionary advancement you are talking about. "Elevate your game"? If you can't provide a definition for the basic premise of your argument, perhaps you are the one who need to "elevate your game."

Also, yet again, what does it matter if consciousness is the most "evolutionary advanced" thing humanity is aware of? How does that make it the most "evolutionary advanced" thing in the universe? Are you honestly trying to claim that humanity is aware of everything in the universe to know that nothing else could be more "evolutionary advanced"?

It matters because it is true and it goes to my point that creation of intelligence is the purpose of the universe.

My worldview doesn't require me to ignore the reality around me. No wonder you get "F"'s.

Aren't you ignoring the fact that you don't know what is in most of the universe? Or is that not reality for some reason?

And you still have not explained what you mean by "evolutionary advanced." Does it mean the most complex? Highest on the food chain?

Behold the Most Complicated Object in the Known Universe

Did you miss the use of the phrase "known universe"? Do you understand that indicates the most complicated object that humanity is aware of, and not the most complicated object in the entire universe? Are you also aware that the words "complicated" and "advanced" are not the same? I've asked you repeatedly how you are defining "evolutionary advanced." Does this mean you are defining it to mean "complicated"?

There's also the fact that this statement is most likely a bit flippant, and does not adequately define the terms being used. For example, are the brains of other animals all less complex than a human brain? I've seen the long finned pilot whale estimated to have twice as many neurons in the cerebral cortex as humans.
How is object being defined? Wouldn't an entire human being be more complex than just a human brain? What about the population of the planet, made up of billions of humans, not to mention all the other life forms? Wouldn't the Earth be more complex than just a brain?

But again, however object and complexity are being defined, that quote from Kaku is about the known universe. I am pretty confident that Mr. Kaku would readily admit there are vast amounts of things in the universe that humanity does not know about.

The more I learn about the universe the more I doubt the existence of a creator but recently I’ve been watching How the universe works and they were comparing our solar system to others. Ours is very different than all the others and those differences are why life is here on this planet.

Most stars have all of their planets orbiting closer to their star than mercury does our sun. Most have super earths.

Anyways, I’m not saying this proves a god exists. I’m just saying I can see how theists would believes this confirms a god does exist and indeed we are special.

And we are. At least in our solar system we are the crown jewel. And at this time but it won’t always be this way. Planet 9 might screw up our whole system

Perhaps the other solar systems just haven’t had planets form in habitable zones yet or they did already but each solar system is like a toilet bowl and the sun is the drain. We are all moving slowly towards the drain.

Maybe one day all our planets will be as close to the sun as mercury. Then no life will exist here. The day will come. So if things being born and dying is natural why does a god need to be involved?

There is nothing special about us.

"If, as claimed by humanism, man were born only to be happy, he would not be born to die. Since his body is doomed to death, his task on earth evidently must be more spiritual: not a total engrossment in everyday life, not the search for the best ways to obtain material goods and then their carefree consumption. It has to be the fulfillment of a permanent, earnest duty so that one's life journey may become above all an experience of moral growth: to leave life a better human being than one started it." Alexander Solzhenitsyn

 

[hobelim]

If you do not know what the stories are about, you can't study what God created..

I can absolutely study what God created.

And you are still trying to change the subject.

If you don't understand the subjects of the creation story, you don't know what God created.

If you don't know what God created, how can you study it?

I am apart of his creation. Everything that exists in the universe is part of his creation. Everything that has happened since space and time were created is a part of his creation. I'm pretty sure I can study it.

How would you study what he created?

If you believe that God was a human being, you are not a part of Gods creation. Thats why in spite of all of your professions of faith, you have never heard a confirming word from God in your entire life.

I study what God created by seeking to understand the deeper implications of the law which is the firmament, the basis, of Heaven.

Even with its many charms, I already know enough about the earth to never want to visit this planet again.

If you are not studying the law, and doing it, you are not on your way to eternal life..

 

[sealybobo]

It matters because it is true and it goes to my point that creation of intelligence is the purpose of the universe.

My worldview doesn't require me to ignore the reality around me. No wonder you get "F"'s.

Aren't you ignoring the fact that you don't know what is in most of the universe? Or is that not reality for some reason?

And you still have not explained what you mean by "evolutionary advanced." Does it mean the most complex? Highest on the food chain?

Behold the Most Complicated Object in the Known Universe

Did you miss the use of the phrase "known universe"? Do you understand that indicates the most complicated object that humanity is aware of, and not the most complicated object in the entire universe? Are you also aware that the words "complicated" and "advanced" are not the same? I've asked you repeatedly how you are defining "evolutionary advanced." Does this mean you are defining it to mean "complicated"?

There's also the fact that this statement is most likely a bit flippant, and does not adequately define the terms being used. For example, are the brains of other animals all less complex than a human brain? I've seen the long finned pilot whale estimated to have twice as many neurons in the cerebral cortex as humans.
How is object being defined? Wouldn't an entire human being be more complex than just a human brain? What about the population of the planet, made up of billions of humans, not to mention all the other life forms? Wouldn't the Earth be more complex than just a brain?

But again, however object and complexity are being defined, that quote from Kaku is about the known universe. I am pretty confident that Mr. Kaku would readily admit there are vast amounts of things in the universe that humanity does not know about.

The more I learn about the universe the more I doubt the existence of a creator but recently I’ve been watching How the universe works and they were comparing our solar system to others. Ours is very different than all the others and those differences are why life is here on this planet.

Most stars have all of their planets orbiting closer to their star than mercury does our sun. Most have super earths.

Anyways, I’m not saying this proves a god exists. I’m just saying I can see how theists would believes this confirms a god does exist and indeed we are special.

And we are. At least in our solar system we are the crown jewel. And at this time but it won’t always be this way. Planet 9 might screw up our whole system

Perhaps the other solar systems just haven’t had planets form in habitable zones yet or they did already but each solar system is like a toilet bowl and the sun is the drain. We are all moving slowly towards the drain.

Maybe one day all our planets will be as close to the sun as mercury. Then no life will exist here. The day will come. So if things being born and dying is natural why does a god need to be involved?

There is nothing special about us.

"If, as claimed by humanism, man were born only to be happy, he would not be born to die. Since his body is doomed to death, his task on earth evidently must be more spiritual: not a total engrossment in everyday life, not the search for the best ways to obtain material goods and then their carefree consumption. It has to be the fulfillment of a permanent, earnest duty so that one's life journey may become above all an experience of moral growth: to leave life a better human being than one started it." Alexander Solzhenitsyn

What do you mean there’s nothing special about us? I didn’t know you felt that way. I am giving you theists the fact that our solar system is special. Is rare. Look at the others and none are like us.

It’s like each solar system is a different game of pool and to have life like ours it has to work out this way. If not no planet with atmosphere, water, moon and intelligence.

I think “life” exists in every solar system but like spirm only one in a million gets pregnant.

 

[OZman]

I am giving you theists the fact that our solar system is special.

What about the universe?

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