If Universal Healthcare is a Bad Idea...

[NYcarbineer]

Who should go without?

Well, other industrialized nations can afford it. Of course most of them aren't engaged in the costly wars for profit that we are. Then there's our for sale politicians in league with the health insurers. Even obama, who people call a liberal, made sure that the ACA kept them in the game.







Universal healthcare is a GREAT idea. Now. How do we afford it?

They are orders of magnitude smaller than we are, and the ones that actually are able to afford are also oil rich. Norway has a population less than that of the State of Minnesota. California has a population of 37 million give or take, and they calculated the cost of giving universal health care at 400 billion. Their current TOTAL state budget is 185 billion. So, where do you get the rest of it?

How does Japan manage it then?

Healthcare is about cost per person, whether a million or 300 million.

 

[Nia88]

As an adult human being, I need things such as food, clothing, shelter, and sometimes health care. I am responsible to earn a living (work) to provide those needs for myself and my dependants. I do not have a right to have those things simply given to me by the government.

Parents have the responsibility to provide for their children.

We are a compassionate society, and in cases when people cannot provide for themselves, people will usually give there time and money to help out. But three are limits to this.

You're sure about that? I would argue we are not. The fact that we are even debating if healthcare is a human right or not shows we lack compassion. Every western country has established its a human right and healthcare is provided for their citizens. And some countries even extended to non citizen residents. Except for good Ole US of A. Healthcare is seen as a privilege. That isn't compassionate at all.

 

[Muhammed]

Who should go without?

I agree with the politically centrist leader Trump and ultra LWNJ NYcarbineer. We need to have a universal healthcare system.

It is one position us centrists and the LWNJs can agree upon.

See? Some RWnuts occasionally find a squirrel. lol

And it appears that your opposition to Trump is based solely on envy and lies. It has nothing to do with policy.

Admit it, you hate Trump because of envy.

Trump supports the GOP healthcare bill, which is in no way universal healthcare.

Trump supports universal healthcare.

He will not sign any health care bill that does not forward that policy.

 

[Nia88]

Who should go without?

The poor, low income working Americans, the disabled, the elderly, and those who ‘failed’ to be successful in life where they don’t ‘deserve’ access to healthcare.

It’s the neo-Social Darwinism of the reprehensible right.

Show us in the US where they can't get care. Do it now.

The issue isn't getting care. Its the cost of care that's the problem. If people have to sell their homes to pay for medical bills then that shows its a problem with our system. We pay taxes. The government should use those taxes to give us health coverage instead of spending it on rich people tax cuts and military spending.

 

[Nia88]

Who should go without?

I agree with the politically centrist leader Trump and ultra LWNJ NYcarbineer. We need to have a universal healthcare system.

It is one position us centrists and the LWNJs can agree upon.

See? Some RWnuts occasionally find a squirrel. lol

And it appears that your opposition to Trump is based solely on envy and lies. It has nothing to do with policy.

Admit it, you hate Trump because of envy.

Trump supports the GOP healthcare bill, which is in no way universal healthcare.

Trump supports universal healthcare.

He will not sign any health care bill that does not forward that policy.

Then Trump doesn't know what universal healthcare means.

"Universal health care, sometimes referred to as universal health coverage, universalcoverage, or universal care, usually refers to a health care system that provides health care and financial protection to all citizens of a particular country."

GOP bill is far from universal healthcare. ACA wasn't even universal healthcare.

 

[westwall]

Who should go without?

The poor, low income working Americans, the disabled, the elderly, and those who ‘failed’ to be successful in life where they don’t ‘deserve’ access to healthcare.

It’s the neo-Social Darwinism of the reprehensible right.

Show us in the US where they can't get care. Do it now.

The issue isn't getting care. Its the cost of care that's the problem. If people have to sell their homes to pay for medical bills then that shows its a problem with our system. We pay taxes. The government should use those taxes to give us health coverage instead of spending it on rich people tax cuts and military spending.

The second you get government involved you get waste. Want to lower the cost of insurance? Allow cross state competition currently illegal thanks to regulations the insurance company's asked for so they could build their monopolies. Also, limit the outrageous money payed out for malpractice and initiate "loser pays" laws that will eliminate frivolous lawsuits that harm all of us. A good friend of mine is a surgeon who has never had a complaint. He is still forced to pay 250,000 a year for malpractice insurance. That's absurd.

 

[Dragonlady]

As an adult human being, I need things such as food, clothing, shelter, and sometimes health care. I am responsible to earn a living (work) to provide those needs for myself and my dependants. I do not have a right to have those things simply given to me by the government.

Parents have the responsibility to provide for their children.

We are a compassionate society, and in cases when people cannot provide for themselves, people will usually give there time and money to help out. But three are limits to this.

You're sure about that? I would argue we are not. The fact that we are even debating if healthcare is a human right or not shows we lack compassion. Every western country has established its a human right and healthcare is provided for their citizens. And some countries even extended to non citizen residents. Except for good Ole US of A. Healthcare is seen as a privilege. That isn't compassionate at all.

Exactly. Every First World Nation except the US has universal health care as a right, except Americans. No country except the US uses private insurance for their primary health care except the US.

 

[westwall]

Who should go without?

Well, other industrialized nations can afford it. Of course most of them aren't engaged in the costly wars for profit that we are. Then there's our for sale politicians in league with the health insurers. Even obama, who people call a liberal, made sure that the ACA kept them in the game.







Universal healthcare is a GREAT idea. Now. How do we afford it?

They are orders of magnitude smaller than we are, and the ones that actually are able to afford are also oil rich. Norway has a population less than that of the State of Minnesota. California has a population of 37 million give or take, and they calculated the cost of giving universal health care at 400 billion. Their current TOTAL state budget is 185 billion. So, where do you get the rest of it?

Here's a quick list of countries with universal health care below. What good is it calling ourselves great if we can't do something as basic as keeping our own citizens healthy?

View attachment 137813
Countries with universal health care include Austria,Belarus, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland,France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Italy,Luxembourg, Malta, Moldova, the Netherlands,Norway, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Spain,Sweden, Switzerland, Ukraine, and the United Kingdom.

Canada's system is so great that their politicians would rather come here to the USA, and PAY for their care, than wait for their surgeries back home. Not exactly a compelling argument. Take a look at the quality of their health care, and I mean look at the problems, not the rosy tales that you are limiting yourself to. And then get back to us.

 

[Nia88]

Who should go without?

The poor, low income working Americans, the disabled, the elderly, and those who ‘failed’ to be successful in life where they don’t ‘deserve’ access to healthcare.

It’s the neo-Social Darwinism of the reprehensible right.

Show us in the US where they can't get care. Do it now.

The issue isn't getting care. Its the cost of care that's the problem. If people have to sell their homes to pay for medical bills then that shows its a problem with our system. We pay taxes. The government should use those taxes to give us health coverage instead of spending it on rich people tax cuts and military spending.

The second you get government involved you get waste. Want to lower the cost of insurance? Allow cross state competition currently illegal thanks to regulations the insurance company's asked for so they could build their monopolies. Also, limit the outrageous money payed out for malpractice and initiate "loser pays" laws that will eliminate frivolous lawsuits that harm all of us. A good friend of mine is a surgeon who has never had a complaint. He is still forced to pay 250,000 a year for malpractice insurance. That's absurd.

Other countries have had universal healthcare for 40+ years and they are still functioning. Insurance companies are the problem. Even if thr rates are lower, insurance companies like to give the run around on what they'll pay for. Insurance companies are the biggest thieves around.

I'm sorry but I'll trust government run universal healthcare over insurance companies any day.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Who should go without?

People on social programs. Every time this subject comes up in the media, their first concern is what about the poor people? Well, what about the working people is my question?

Working people are the ones who are paying for the non-working, and some of us working people don't have coverage ourselves. In the meantime, the poor are popping out kids like a popcorn machine and the rest of us have to support them including their medical.

So poor children and the elderly who are poor should go without?

Do you have a good argument as to why those groups should be punished for doing no wrong?

Unfortunately, despite the best of intentions these two classifications are the ones who will go without. Contrary to wishful thinking not everyone will get medical care.

Liberals use the excuses themselves. They don't want to pay for treatment for an elderly person who isn't going to live another ten or twenty years. Neither do they want to pay for treatment for desperately ill children. That Gard boy comes to mind.

The big difference is with single payer an individual can't pay for treatment. It's single payer. The doctors and hospitals are all state owned.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Who should go without?

The poor, low income working Americans, the disabled, the elderly, and those who ‘failed’ to be successful in life where they don’t ‘deserve’ access to healthcare.

It’s the neo-Social Darwinism of the reprehensible right.

Show us in the US where they can't get care. Do it now.

The issue isn't getting care. Its the cost of care that's the problem. If people have to sell their homes to pay for medical bills then that shows its a problem with our system. We pay taxes. The government should use those taxes to give us health coverage instead of spending it on rich people tax cuts and military spending.

The second you get government involved you get waste. Want to lower the cost of insurance? Allow cross state competition currently illegal thanks to regulations the insurance company's asked for so they could build their monopolies. Also, limit the outrageous money payed out for malpractice and initiate "loser pays" laws that will eliminate frivolous lawsuits that harm all of us. A good friend of mine is a surgeon who has never had a complaint. He is still forced to pay 250,000 a year for malpractice insurance. That's absurd.

Other countries have had universal healthcare for 40+ years and they are still functioning. Insurance companies are the problem. Even if thr rates are lower, insurance companies like to give the run around on what they'll pay for. Insurance companies are the biggest thieves around.

I'm sorry but I'll trust government run universal healthcare over insurance companies any day.

Because the successful countries don't have universal care. Not every person is entitled to every test and procedure. There is a baseline. After that you better have insurance or money.

For true universal health care, it's Cuba. Even China is privatizing.

 

[Rustic]

Who should go without?

The people that do not want it, and should not be paying for other people....
Fucking Control freaks...

 

[westwall]

Who should go without?

The poor, low income working Americans, the disabled, the elderly, and those who ‘failed’ to be successful in life where they don’t ‘deserve’ access to healthcare.

It’s the neo-Social Darwinism of the reprehensible right.

Show us in the US where they can't get care. Do it now.

The issue isn't getting care. Its the cost of care that's the problem. If people have to sell their homes to pay for medical bills then that shows its a problem with our system. We pay taxes. The government should use those taxes to give us health coverage instead of spending it on rich people tax cuts and military spending.

The second you get government involved you get waste. Want to lower the cost of insurance? Allow cross state competition currently illegal thanks to regulations the insurance company's asked for so they could build their monopolies. Also, limit the outrageous money payed out for malpractice and initiate "loser pays" laws that will eliminate frivolous lawsuits that harm all of us. A good friend of mine is a surgeon who has never had a complaint. He is still forced to pay 250,000 a year for malpractice insurance. That's absurd.

Other countries have had universal healthcare for 40+ years and they are still functioning. Insurance companies are the problem. Even if thr rates are lower, insurance companies like to give the run around on what they'll pay for. Insurance companies are the biggest thieves around.

I'm sorry but I'll trust government run universal healthcare over insurance companies any day.

And you would be a fool. Like I said. I dare you to actually review the quality of care you get in those country's. You will be sorely surprised. There's a huge gulf between what they claim, and what they deliver. Below is the UK's NHS and the disaster it has become. I dare you to look at the problems that the NHS has ALWAYS had. and then come back and tell us how you would rather have the government provide you with care like the million patients PER WEEK! who can't get an appointment. And that in a country that is less than one third our population.


One million patients a week cannot get a GP appointment, statistics show

One million patients a week cannot get appointments with GPs, amid the longest waiting times on record, new figures show.

Doctors said they were working “flat out” but under “unsustainable” pressure, leaving “worrying” numbers of patients without any help.

The NHS figures show the number waiting at least a week to see their GP has risen by 56 per cent in five years, with one in five now waiting this long.

The pressures left 11.3 per cent of patients unable to get an appointment at all - a 27 per cent rise since 2012. This amounts to around 47 million occasions on which patients attempted but failed to secure help from their GP, forcing them to give up, try again later or turn to Accident & Emergency departments.
One million patients a week cannot get a GP appointment, statistics show


Jeremy Hunt: NHS problems completely unacceptable

 

[Rustic]

The republican elected officials should be the ones who do without health care. Also, the religious Right (god will heal them).

But, seriously, NY, do you really want the RW people to reveal just how mean spirited they really are to the poor, elderly, and children? I find it downright depressing, myself.

Millions are just like me, i have no right to "healthcare"...but i do have a right to earn my healthcare.

 

[Muhammed]

I agree with the politically centrist leader Trump and ultra LWNJ NYcarbineer. We need to have a universal healthcare system.

It is one position us centrists and the LWNJs can agree upon.

See? Some RWnuts occasionally find a squirrel. lol

And it appears that your opposition to Trump is based solely on envy and lies. It has nothing to do with policy.

Admit it, you hate Trump because of envy.

Trump supports the GOP healthcare bill, which is in no way universal healthcare.

Trump supports universal healthcare.

He will not sign any health care bill that does not forward that policy.

Then Trump doesn't know what universal healthcare means.

"Universal health care, sometimes referred to as universal health coverage, universalcoverage, or universal care, usually refers to a health care system that provides health care and financial protection to all citizens of a particular country."

GOP bill is far from universal healthcare. ACA wasn't even universal healthcare.

Trump is NOT the GOP. He is a centrist.

Or are you one of those nutjobs who thinks he is a reptile from outer space?

 

[Dragonlady]

Who should go without?

Well, other industrialized nations can afford it. Of course most of them aren't engaged in the costly wars for profit that we are. Then there's our for sale politicians in league with the health insurers. Even obama, who people call a liberal, made sure that the ACA kept them in the game.







Universal healthcare is a GREAT idea. Now. How do we afford it?

They are orders of magnitude smaller than we are, and the ones that actually are able to afford are also oil rich. Norway has a population less than that of the State of Minnesota. California has a population of 37 million give or take, and they calculated the cost of giving universal health care at 400 billion. Their current TOTAL state budget is 185 billion. So, where do you get the rest of it?

Here's a quick list of countries with universal health care below. What good is it calling ourselves great if we can't do something as basic as keeping our own citizens healthy?

View attachment 137813
Countries with universal health care include Austria,Belarus, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland,France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Italy,Luxembourg, Malta, Moldova, the Netherlands,Norway, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Spain,Sweden, Switzerland, Ukraine, and the United Kingdom.

Canada's system is so great that their politicians would rather come here to the USA, and PAY for their care, than wait for their surgeries back home. Not exactly a compelling argument. Take a look at the quality of their health care, and I mean look at the problems, not the rosy tales that you are limiting yourself to. And then get back to us.

Bullshit. One Canadian politician came to the US for treatment - a billionaire, with cancer. I have Canadian friends who have had heart attacks in the US and asked to be flown back to Canada for treatment rather than be subjected to US health care.

No system is without problems, but those who need immediate care get it immediately regardless of income. And it's quality care. Not the third rate care that public hospitals give to indigent patients in the US.

 

[Rustic]

If Universal Healthcare is a Bad Idea ..

who should go without one





any Republcan registered to vote

I don't want universal healthcare, I want to earn my own health care. I don't want other people to pay for my shit you fucking control freaks

 

[Rustic]

Who should go without?

Those who cannot pay for it, or receive it as a benefit for their employment.

No one should go without healthcare. It is a basic human right.

Bull shit. I'm in healthcare, you have no right to my time or my training. It's the stupidest argument coming from the left since, well, you guys say a LOT of stupid shit.

I live in a country where everyone who is born is entitled to healthcare until the day they die.

Our people live longer than your, they are healthier than you throughout their lives, and no one ever gets a bill from a doctor. Oh yeah, and we are a lot happier than you snowflakes.

Health care is a right. I wasn't born with it but all my children and grandchildren were.

Well, keep that shit to yourself and quit trying to force it on other people you fucking control freaks. Lol

 

[Rustic]

Who should go without?

Those who cannot pay for it, or receive it as a benefit for their employment.

No one should go without healthcare. It is a basic human right.

Bull shit. I'm in healthcare, you have no right to my time or my training. It's the stupidest argument coming from the left since, well, you guys say a LOT of stupid shit.

I live in a country where everyone who is born is entitled to healthcare until the day they die.

Our people live longer than your, they are healthier than you throughout their lives, and no one ever gets a bill from a doctor. Oh yeah, and we are a lot happier than you snowflakes.

Health care is a right. I wasn't born with it but all my children and grandchildren were.

BTW... I have no right to healthcare, but I do have a right to earn my healthcare. Keep your fucking socialist shit to yourselves. Lol

 

[Dragonlady]

The poor, low income working Americans, the disabled, the elderly, and those who ‘failed’ to be successful in life where they don’t ‘deserve’ access to healthcare.

It’s the neo-Social Darwinism of the reprehensible right.

Show us in the US where they can't get care. Do it now.

The issue isn't getting care. Its the cost of care that's the problem. If people have to sell their homes to pay for medical bills then that shows its a problem with our system. We pay taxes. The government should use those taxes to give us health coverage instead of spending it on rich people tax cuts and military spending.

The second you get government involved you get waste. Want to lower the cost of insurance? Allow cross state competition currently illegal thanks to regulations the insurance company's asked for so they could build their monopolies. Also, limit the outrageous money payed out for malpractice and initiate "loser pays" laws that will eliminate frivolous lawsuits that harm all of us. A good friend of mine is a surgeon who has never had a complaint. He is still forced to pay 250,000 a year for malpractice insurance. That's absurd.

Other countries have had universal healthcare for 40+ years and they are still functioning. Insurance companies are the problem. Even if thr rates are lower, insurance companies like to give the run around on what they'll pay for. Insurance companies are the biggest thieves around.

I'm sorry but I'll trust government run universal healthcare over insurance companies any day.

Because the successful countries don't have universal care. Not every person is entitled to every test and procedure. There is a baseline. After that you better have insurance or money.

For true universal health care, it's Cuba. Even China is privatizing.

Yes we are entitled to every test and every treatment. That's why we live longer, with better health. Your insurance companies dictate what tests and treatments they pay for. You have preapprovals and copays. We have none of that.

You've been sold the idea you have better health care. You do not not even close. You have more expensive health care. Your outcomes aren't better. Your life expectancy is lower.