If Universal Healthcare is a Bad Idea...

[westwall]

Well, other industrialized nations can afford it. Of course most of them aren't engaged in the costly wars for profit that we are. Then there's our for sale politicians in league with the health insurers. Even obama, who people call a liberal, made sure that the ACA kept them in the game.







Universal healthcare is a GREAT idea. Now. How do we afford it?

They are orders of magnitude smaller than we are, and the ones that actually are able to afford are also oil rich. Norway has a population less than that of the State of Minnesota. California has a population of 37 million give or take, and they calculated the cost of giving universal health care at 400 billion. Their current TOTAL state budget is 185 billion. So, where do you get the rest of it?

Here's a quick list of countries with universal health care below. What good is it calling ourselves great if we can't do something as basic as keeping our own citizens healthy?

View attachment 137813
Countries with universal health care include Austria,Belarus, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland,France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Italy,Luxembourg, Malta, Moldova, the Netherlands,Norway, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Spain,Sweden, Switzerland, Ukraine, and the United Kingdom.

Canada's system is so great that their politicians would rather come here to the USA, and PAY for their care, than wait for their surgeries back home. Not exactly a compelling argument. Take a look at the quality of their health care, and I mean look at the problems, not the rosy tales that you are limiting yourself to. And then get back to us.

Bullshit. One Canadian politician came to the US for treatment - a billionaire, with cancer. I have Canadian friends who have had heart attacks in the US and asked to be flown back to Canada for treatment rather than be subjected to US health care.

No system is without problems, but those who need immediate care get it immediately regardless of income. And it's quality care. Not the third rate care that public hospitals give to indigent patients in the US.

Wrong. It was two. Danny millions came here for his heart surgery.....

'Danny Millions' Williams heads south for heart surgery | Toronto Star


And Stronach came here for her cancer surgery....

Stronach travels to U.S. for cancer treatment
Belinda Stronach went to California for some of her breast cancer treatment earlier this year.
Stronach travels to U.S. for cancer treatment | Toronto Star

And THOUSANDS of Canadians travel to the US EVERY year for their treatment. That THEY have to pay for. How many from the US go north for their treatment?


Canadians seek treatment abroad

The Fraser Institute, a Canadian public policy think tank, estimates that 52,513 Canadians received non-emergency medical treatment in the U.S. and other countries in 2014, a 25 percent jump from the roughly 41,838 who sought medical care abroad the previous year.

RELATED CONTENT

Global Millennials Rank Canada as No. 1 Country
In citing those numbers in its 2015 report, "Leaving Canada for Medical Care," the organization said difficulties in obtaining timely medical care at home is, increasingly, leading Canadians to seek it abroad. "It is possible [they] may have left the country to avoid some of the adverse medical consequences of waiting for care, such as worsening of their condition, poorer outcomes following treatment, disability, or death," the report says. "Some may leave simply to avoid delay and to make a quicker return to normal life."

Canadians could expect to wait 9.8 weeks for medically necessary treatment after seeing a specialist in 2014, the researchers found, three weeks more than the time physicians considered to be clinically "reasonable."


The public health care system sends some Canadians abroad for treatment partly because of a lack of available local resources, the report says.

 

[Rustic]

No. I am against people being forced involuntarily into a government charity scheme for which there is no Constitutional authority.

Sounds to me like you use that as an excuse. If you want people to get healthy and become members of the workforce you should be happy about the end result period.

Why would I be happy about people being forced to give up assets to a government which has no legal authority to take them?

Look don't tell me you are for poor people with health problems getting health care as long as you aren't "forced" to do it. That's just you being head strong or making an empty excuse.

I am for the rule of law, not emotion.

Another excuse. The U.S. is the richest country in the world and all the countries in the world with the top life expectancy and quality of life have universal healthcare.

Millions just like me want nothing to do with universal healthcare, keep that shit yourselves you fucking control freaks. Lol

 

[Nia88]

See? Some RWnuts occasionally find a squirrel. lol

And it appears that your opposition to Trump is based solely on envy and lies. It has nothing to do with policy.

Admit it, you hate Trump because of envy.

Trump supports the GOP healthcare bill, which is in no way universal healthcare.

Trump supports universal healthcare.

He will not sign any health care bill that does not forward that policy.

Then Trump doesn't know what universal healthcare means.

"Universal health care, sometimes referred to as universal health coverage, universalcoverage, or universal care, usually refers to a health care system that provides health care and financial protection to all citizens of a particular country."

GOP bill is far from universal healthcare. ACA wasn't even universal healthcare.

Trump is NOT the GOP. He is a centrist.

Or are you one of those nutjobs who thinks he is a reptile from outer space?

Trump is a centrist? Lol

 

[westwall]

And it appears that your opposition to Trump is based solely on envy and lies. It has nothing to do with policy.

Admit it, you hate Trump because of envy.

Trump supports the GOP healthcare bill, which is in no way universal healthcare.

Trump supports universal healthcare.

He will not sign any health care bill that does not forward that policy.

Then Trump doesn't know what universal healthcare means.

"Universal health care, sometimes referred to as universal health coverage, universalcoverage, or universal care, usually refers to a health care system that provides health care and financial protection to all citizens of a particular country."

GOP bill is far from universal healthcare. ACA wasn't even universal healthcare.

Trump is NOT the GOP. He is a centrist.

Or are you one of those nutjobs who thinks he is a reptile from outer space?

Trump is a centrist? Lol

Still waiting for a response to my post. Have you read any of the links yet or are you too afraid to have your preconceived notions destroyed?

 

[Dragonlady]

Who should go without?

Those who cannot pay for it, or receive it as a benefit for their employment.

No one should go without healthcare. It is a basic human right.

Bull shit. I'm in healthcare, you have no right to my time or my training. It's the stupidest argument coming from the left since, well, you guys say a LOT of stupid shit.

I live in a country where everyone who is born is entitled to healthcare until the day they die.

Our people live longer than your, they are healthier than you throughout their lives, and no one ever gets a bill from a doctor. Oh yeah, and we are a lot happier than you snowflakes.

Health care is a right. I wasn't born with it but all my children and grandchildren were.

BTW... I have no right to healthcare, but I do have a right to earn my healthcare. Keep your fucking socialist shit to yourselves. Lol

They are orders of magnitude smaller than we are, and the ones that actually are able to afford are also oil rich. Norway has a population less than that of the State of Minnesota. California has a population of 37 million give or take, and they calculated the cost of giving universal health care at 400 billion. Their current TOTAL state budget is 185 billion. So, where do you get the rest of it?

Here's a quick list of countries with universal health care below. What good is it calling ourselves great if we can't do something as basic as keeping our own citizens healthy?

View attachment 137813
Countries with universal health care include Austria,Belarus, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland,France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Italy,Luxembourg, Malta, Moldova, the Netherlands,Norway, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Spain,Sweden, Switzerland, Ukraine, and the United Kingdom.

Canada's system is so great that their politicians would rather come here to the USA, and PAY for their care, than wait for their surgeries back home. Not exactly a compelling argument. Take a look at the quality of their health care, and I mean look at the problems, not the rosy tales that you are limiting yourself to. And then get back to us.

Bullshit. One Canadian politician came to the US for treatment - a billionaire, with cancer. I have Canadian friends who have had heart attacks in the US and asked to be flown back to Canada for treatment rather than be subjected to US health care.

No system is without problems, but those who need immediate care get it immediately regardless of income. And it's quality care. Not the third rate care that public hospitals give to indigent patients in the US.

Wrong. It was two. Danny millions came here for his heart surgery.....

'Danny Millions' Williams heads south for heart surgery | Toronto Star


And Stronach came here for her cancer surgery....

Stronach travels to U.S. for cancer treatment
Belinda Stronach went to California for some of her breast cancer treatment earlier this year.
Stronach travels to U.S. for cancer treatment | Toronto Star

And THOUSANDS of Canadians travel to the US EVERY year for their treatment. That THEY have to pay for. How many from the US go north for their treatment?


Canadians seek treatment abroad

The Fraser Institute, a Canadian public policy think tank, estimates that 52,513 Canadians received non-emergency medical treatment in the U.S. and other countries in 2014, a 25 percent jump from the roughly 41,838 who sought medical care abroad the previous year.

RELATED CONTENT

Global Millennials Rank Canada as No. 1 Country
In citing those numbers in its 2015 report, "Leaving Canada for Medical Care," the organization said difficulties in obtaining timely medical care at home is, increasingly, leading Canadians to seek it abroad. "It is possible [they] may have left the country to avoid some of the adverse medical consequences of waiting for care, such as worsening of their condition, poorer outcomes following treatment, disability, or death," the report says. "Some may leave simply to avoid delay and to make a quicker return to normal life."

Canadians could expect to wait 9.8 weeks for medically necessary treatment after seeing a specialist in 2014, the researchers found, three weeks more than the time physicians considered to be clinically "reasonable."


The public health care system sends some Canadians abroad for treatment partly because of a lack of available local resources, the report says.

The Fraser Institute's figures are whack. They are a radical right wing think tank with the goal of eliminating public health care. Their methodology is highly suspect.

They ask doctors what percentage of their patients get treatment in the US. It's multiple choice with the lowest number being 1% or less. 0% is not an option.

I personally know 1 person who has ever gone to the US for treatment and yes, he is a multi-millionaire, with lung cancer who went Boston for experimental treatment.

Most Canadians who have treatment in the US were there on vacation and got sick there or were injured.

 

[Dragonlady]

Who should go without?

Those who cannot pay for it, or receive it as a benefit for their employment.

No one should go without healthcare. It is a basic human right.

Bull shit. I'm in healthcare, you have no right to my time or my training. It's the stupidest argument coming from the left since, well, you guys say a LOT of stupid shit.

I live in a country where everyone who is born is entitled to healthcare until the day they die.

Our people live longer than your, they are healthier than you throughout their lives, and no one ever gets a bill from a doctor. Oh yeah, and we are a lot happier than you snowflakes.

Health care is a right. I wasn't born with it but all my children and grandchildren were.

BTW... I have no right to healthcare, but I do have a right to earn my healthcare. Keep your fucking socialist shit to yourselves. Lol

You already have Medicare and the VA hospitals. What you don't have is Medicare for all. It would be substantially cheaper than giving insurance companies 20% of your health care dollars.

 

[westwall]

Those who cannot pay for it, or receive it as a benefit for their employment.

No one should go without healthcare. It is a basic human right.

Bull shit. I'm in healthcare, you have no right to my time or my training. It's the stupidest argument coming from the left since, well, you guys say a LOT of stupid shit.

I live in a country where everyone who is born is entitled to healthcare until the day they die.

Our people live longer than your, they are healthier than you throughout their lives, and no one ever gets a bill from a doctor. Oh yeah, and we are a lot happier than you snowflakes.

Health care is a right. I wasn't born with it but all my children and grandchildren were.

BTW... I have no right to healthcare, but I do have a right to earn my healthcare. Keep your fucking socialist shit to yourselves. Lol

They are orders of magnitude smaller than we are, and the ones that actually are able to afford are also oil rich. Norway has a population less than that of the State of Minnesota. California has a population of 37 million give or take, and they calculated the cost of giving universal health care at 400 billion. Their current TOTAL state budget is 185 billion. So, where do you get the rest of it?

Here's a quick list of countries with universal health care below. What good is it calling ourselves great if we can't do something as basic as keeping our own citizens healthy?

View attachment 137813
Countries with universal health care include Austria,Belarus, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland,France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Italy,Luxembourg, Malta, Moldova, the Netherlands,Norway, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Spain,Sweden, Switzerland, Ukraine, and the United Kingdom.

Canada's system is so great that their politicians would rather come here to the USA, and PAY for their care, than wait for their surgeries back home. Not exactly a compelling argument. Take a look at the quality of their health care, and I mean look at the problems, not the rosy tales that you are limiting yourself to. And then get back to us.

Bullshit. One Canadian politician came to the US for treatment - a billionaire, with cancer. I have Canadian friends who have had heart attacks in the US and asked to be flown back to Canada for treatment rather than be subjected to US health care.

No system is without problems, but those who need immediate care get it immediately regardless of income. And it's quality care. Not the third rate care that public hospitals give to indigent patients in the US.

Wrong. It was two. Danny millions came here for his heart surgery.....

'Danny Millions' Williams heads south for heart surgery | Toronto Star


And Stronach came here for her cancer surgery....

Stronach travels to U.S. for cancer treatment
Belinda Stronach went to California for some of her breast cancer treatment earlier this year.
Stronach travels to U.S. for cancer treatment | Toronto Star

And THOUSANDS of Canadians travel to the US EVERY year for their treatment. That THEY have to pay for. How many from the US go north for their treatment?


Canadians seek treatment abroad

The Fraser Institute, a Canadian public policy think tank, estimates that 52,513 Canadians received non-emergency medical treatment in the U.S. and other countries in 2014, a 25 percent jump from the roughly 41,838 who sought medical care abroad the previous year.

RELATED CONTENT

Global Millennials Rank Canada as No. 1 Country
In citing those numbers in its 2015 report, "Leaving Canada for Medical Care," the organization said difficulties in obtaining timely medical care at home is, increasingly, leading Canadians to seek it abroad. "It is possible [they] may have left the country to avoid some of the adverse medical consequences of waiting for care, such as worsening of their condition, poorer outcomes following treatment, disability, or death," the report says. "Some may leave simply to avoid delay and to make a quicker return to normal life."

Canadians could expect to wait 9.8 weeks for medically necessary treatment after seeing a specialist in 2014, the researchers found, three weeks more than the time physicians considered to be clinically "reasonable."


The public health care system sends some Canadians abroad for treatment partly because of a lack of available local resources, the report says.

The Fraser Institute's figures are whack. They are a radical right wing think tank with the goal of eliminating public health care. Their methodology is highly suspect.

They ask doctors what percentage of their patients get treatment in the US. It's multiple choice with the lowest number being 1% or less. 0% is not an option.

I personally know 1 person who has ever gone to the US for treatment and yes, he is a multi-millionaire, with lung cancer who went Boston for experimental treatment.

Most Canadians who have treatment in the US were there on vacation and got sick there or were injured.

There are plenty of other sources that confirm what they are saying. Here in Reno it is so bad we have one wing of the hospital that is called "the Canadian wing". You are long on opinion but desperately short of facts.

 

[Nia88]

The poor, low income working Americans, the disabled, the elderly, and those who ‘failed’ to be successful in life where they don’t ‘deserve’ access to healthcare.

It’s the neo-Social Darwinism of the reprehensible right.

Show us in the US where they can't get care. Do it now.

The issue isn't getting care. Its the cost of care that's the problem. If people have to sell their homes to pay for medical bills then that shows its a problem with our system. We pay taxes. The government should use those taxes to give us health coverage instead of spending it on rich people tax cuts and military spending.

The second you get government involved you get waste. Want to lower the cost of insurance? Allow cross state competition currently illegal thanks to regulations the insurance company's asked for so they could build their monopolies. Also, limit the outrageous money payed out for malpractice and initiate "loser pays" laws that will eliminate frivolous lawsuits that harm all of us. A good friend of mine is a surgeon who has never had a complaint. He is still forced to pay 250,000 a year for malpractice insurance. That's absurd.

Other countries have had universal healthcare for 40+ years and they are still functioning. Insurance companies are the problem. Even if thr rates are lower, insurance companies like to give the run around on what they'll pay for. Insurance companies are the biggest thieves around.

I'm sorry but I'll trust government run universal healthcare over insurance companies any day.

And you would be a fool. Like I said. I dare you to actually review the quality of care you get in those country's. You will be sorely surprised. There's a huge gulf between what they claim, and what they deliver. Below is the UK's NHS and the disaster it has become. I dare you to look at the problems that the NHS has ALWAYS had. and then come back and tell us how you would rather have the government provide you with care like the million patients PER WEEK! who can't get an appointment. And that in a country that is less than one third our population.


One million patients a week cannot get a GP appointment, statistics show

One million patients a week cannot get appointments with GPs, amid the longest waiting times on record, new figures show.

Doctors said they were working “flat out” but under “unsustainable” pressure, leaving “worrying” numbers of patients without any help.

The NHS figures show the number waiting at least a week to see their GP has risen by 56 per cent in five years, with one in five now waiting this long.

The pressures left 11.3 per cent of patients unable to get an appointment at all - a 27 per cent rise since 2012. This amounts to around 47 million occasions on which patients attempted but failed to secure help from their GP, forcing them to give up, try again later or turn to Accident & Emergency departments.
One million patients a week cannot get a GP appointment, statistics show


Jeremy Hunt: NHS problems completely unacceptable

I've actually been to England before. Yes there is a waiting list but people are generally happy with it. There are private hospitals available if people want that option, but most British people are satisfied with NHS. NHS has been having problems in recent years because of the Tory government. They've been cutting NHS budgets.

No system is perfect but Brits still want to keep NHS around. Brits don't have to stress about medical cost.

 

[Nia88]

Trump supports the GOP healthcare bill, which is in no way universal healthcare.

Trump supports universal healthcare.

He will not sign any health care bill that does not forward that policy.

Then Trump doesn't know what universal healthcare means.

"Universal health care, sometimes referred to as universal health coverage, universalcoverage, or universal care, usually refers to a health care system that provides health care and financial protection to all citizens of a particular country."

GOP bill is far from universal healthcare. ACA wasn't even universal healthcare.

Trump is NOT the GOP. He is a centrist.

Or are you one of those nutjobs who thinks he is a reptile from outer space?

Trump is a centrist? Lol

Still waiting for a response to my post. Have you read any of the links yet or are you too afraid to have your preconceived notions destroyed?

Impatient much?

And I don't have preconceived notions. Im talking from experience. I've lived in two countries that has universal healthcare and I've been satified with them.

 

[imawhosure]

Who should go without?

Those who cannot pay for it, or receive it as a benefit for their employment.

No one should go without healthcare. It is a basic human right.

Bull shit. I'm in healthcare, you have no right to my time or my training. It's the stupidest argument coming from the left since, well, you guys say a LOT of stupid shit.

I live in a country where everyone who is born is entitled to healthcare until the day they die.

Our people live longer than your, they are healthier than you throughout their lives, and no one ever gets a bill from a doctor. Oh yeah, and we are a lot happier than you snowflakes.

Health care is a right. I wasn't born with it but all my children and grandchildren were.

Now this person is wrong, 100% wrong.

Why is that?----------> Because HER HEALTHCARE IS NOT a right, her health insurance is. For her to have the RIGHT to healthcare, she would have to DENY the rights of doctors and nurses, or someone else.

CONSIDER----------> A bomb goes off in whichever city she lives in. In this city there is a capacity for 10,000 hospital patients and emergency room spots. Because of this bomb, 50,000 people are hurt, and in critical condition. Think Dragonlady can walk in and demand her right, lolololol. If she gets it, who is denied?

So, in essence...............she will either be DENIED what she claims is a right, or will deny someone else the thing she just told us was a right.

Here is a clue for you lefties----------> you can NOT be afforded a right IF to get that right, you have deny someone else's, or if someone else has to do something to give it to you. In essence, if you do that, it is called SOCIALISM!

This is why America is the greatest country on earth. Our BILL OF RIGHTS is based on NEGATIVE RIGHTS! What do I mean? -----------> Our bill of rights is based on what the GOVERNMENT CAN NOT DO TO YOU, not based on WHAT THEY WILL DO FOR YOU; because in reality, if rights are based on what the government will do FOR YOU, then to provide them, they have to take, or deny someone else something that belongs to them personally, to provide it for YOU!

 

[PredFan]

No one should go without healthcare. It is a basic human right.

Bull shit. I'm in healthcare, you have no right to my time or my training. It's the stupidest argument coming from the left since, well, you guys say a LOT of stupid shit.

I live in a country where everyone who is born is entitled to healthcare until the day they die.....

...Health care is a right. I wasn't born with it but all my children and grandchildren were.

Then please stay in thst country and keep your nose out of American Society. It may be a Right in your country, but it most definitely is not here. If it ever becomes one, I'll be dead.

She claims it is a right in her country, BUT she says she wasn't born with that right. How the fuck does that happen? Well, it happens because the government gives them health care now but didn't when she was born. In other words, that colossal idiot thinks rights come from government.

Natural rights are inalienable. Legal rights are granted by law. That means rights granted by government stupid.

That means we here in the US do not have a right to healthcare. Just like I said stupid.

 

[PredFan]

Who should go without?

Those who cannot pay for it, or receive it as a benefit for their employment.

No one should go without healthcare. It is a basic human right.

Bull shit. I'm in healthcare, you have no right to my time or my training. It's the stupidest argument coming from the left since, well, you guys say a LOT of stupid shit.

You're paid by a healthcare provider. You abide by their business plan whether you agree or not.

People no doubt hate seeing you coming.

I am paid, you have to pay the provider for your healthcare. If you have to pay for it it isn't a right.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Those who cannot pay for it, or receive it as a benefit for their employment.

No one should go without healthcare. It is a basic human right.

Bull shit. I'm in healthcare, you have no right to my time or my training. It's the stupidest argument coming from the left since, well, you guys say a LOT of stupid shit.

I live in a country where everyone who is born is entitled to healthcare until the day they die.

Our people live longer than your, they are healthier than you throughout their lives, and no one ever gets a bill from a doctor. Oh yeah, and we are a lot happier than you snowflakes.

Health care is a right. I wasn't born with it but all my children and grandchildren were.

BTW... I have no right to healthcare, but I do have a right to earn my healthcare. Keep your fucking socialist shit to yourselves. Lol

You already have Medicare and the VA hospitals. What you don't have is Medicare for all. It would be substantially cheaper than giving insurance companies 20% of your health care dollars.

Twenty percent? Where did you pull that figure from?

 

[Tehon]

Bull shit. I'm in healthcare, you have no right to my time or my training. It's the stupidest argument coming from the left since, well, you guys say a LOT of stupid shit.

I live in a country where everyone who is born is entitled to healthcare until the day they die.....

...Health care is a right. I wasn't born with it but all my children and grandchildren were.

Then please stay in thst country and keep your nose out of American Society. It may be a Right in your country, but it most definitely is not here. If it ever becomes one, I'll be dead.

She claims it is a right in her country, BUT she says she wasn't born with that right. How the fuck does that happen? Well, it happens because the government gives them health care now but didn't when she was born. In other words, that colossal idiot thinks rights come from government.

Natural rights are inalienable. Legal rights are granted by law. That means rights granted by government stupid.

That means we here in the US do not have a right to healthcare. Just like I said stupid.

Liar. You said she couldn't receive a right she wasn't born with.

 

[Mac1958]

Those 2 groups are unnecessary. Children can be replaced and the elderly no longer add anything to Society.

Ya gotta love the internet.
.

 

[imawhosure]

Bull shit. I'm in healthcare, you have no right to my time or my training. It's the stupidest argument coming from the left since, well, you guys say a LOT of stupid shit.

I live in a country where everyone who is born is entitled to healthcare until the day they die.....

...Health care is a right. I wasn't born with it but all my children and grandchildren were.

Then please stay in thst country and keep your nose out of American Society. It may be a Right in your country, but it most definitely is not here. If it ever becomes one, I'll be dead.

She claims it is a right in her country, BUT she says she wasn't born with that right. How the fuck does that happen? Well, it happens because the government gives them health care now but didn't when she was born. In other words, that colossal idiot thinks rights come from government.

Natural rights are inalienable. Legal rights are granted by law. That means rights granted by government stupid.

That means we here in the US do not have a right to healthcare. Just like I said stupid.

See Pred, that just shows how clueless leftists really are, lol.

I heard a great example of why the healthcare system needs competition, not government interference--------->

How many Americans would like a Corvette? What do they cost? Lets say; for the sake of argument, they average 70,000 bucks!

That is NOT fair says the lefties, EVERYONE should have a Corvette if they want one. They make it a RIGHT for every American if they so desire, to have a Corvette, and because the price is soooooooo high, they demand that the evil GM lower the price to 40,000 bucks. All lefties cheer wildly in the streets!

So what is the problem says all these genius lefties!

PROBLEM---------> GM can't build the Corvette with all its content for 40,000, and make a profit. In fact, they LOSE money on every Corvette they sell at that price. Besides that, without the profit, they can no longer RESEARCH (nor would they want to) new improvements for the vehicles; and in fact, have to make the vehicle with LESS content at that price, to even come close to breaking even.

So what does the NEW GOVERNMENT MANDATED Corvette look like? Well, they all have stick shifts, 4 cylinder engines, no air, no radio, cheap tires, bad paint, awful interiors, shoddily built, and besides that........it takes 24 months to get them because GM really doesn't want to sell it to you at that price to start with. (think RATIONING)

But the lefties? The lefties! They sit their and tell you how they are brilliant because of their intervention, they just got you a Corvette for cheap, and everybody has one!

 

[Mac1958]

Having everyone on at least a fundamental, Medicare-like system is:

A. Good economics, as having easy access to preventive and diagnostic services catches sub-acute problems before they become far more expensive, acute issues
B. Good business, as it would take a massive cost monkey off the backs of American employers, which have no reason to be involved in health care on any level
C. One sign of an intelligent, advanced society that values human life and quality of life, as it understands that we are no longer hamstrung by an Old West mentality

Our already-functioning Medicare/Medicare Advantage/Medicare Supplement system would accomplish all of the above, and it would maintain a dynamic, competitive free market insurance landscape.

And oh, by the way: Would anyone like to defend the fact that we currently have SEVEN DIFFERENT DELIVERY/PAYMENT SYSTEMS in this country, NONE of which communicates seamlessly with the others?

1. Group Health
2. Individual Health (ACA)
3. Medicare
4. Medicaid
5. VA
6. Worker's Compensation
7. Indigent (for which we are ALL paying)

>>>>> Would anyone like to stand up and tell us this is smart? Go ahead. Knock it out of the park. <<<<<
.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Show us in the US where they can't get care. Do it now.

The issue isn't getting care. Its the cost of care that's the problem. If people have to sell their homes to pay for medical bills then that shows its a problem with our system. We pay taxes. The government should use those taxes to give us health coverage instead of spending it on rich people tax cuts and military spending.

The second you get government involved you get waste. Want to lower the cost of insurance? Allow cross state competition currently illegal thanks to regulations the insurance company's asked for so they could build their monopolies. Also, limit the outrageous money payed out for malpractice and initiate "loser pays" laws that will eliminate frivolous lawsuits that harm all of us. A good friend of mine is a surgeon who has never had a complaint. He is still forced to pay 250,000 a year for malpractice insurance. That's absurd.

Other countries have had universal healthcare for 40+ years and they are still functioning. Insurance companies are the problem. Even if thr rates are lower, insurance companies like to give the run around on what they'll pay for. Insurance companies are the biggest thieves around.

I'm sorry but I'll trust government run universal healthcare over insurance companies any day.

Because the successful countries don't have universal care. Not every person is entitled to every test and procedure. There is a baseline. After that you better have insurance or money.

For true universal health care, it's Cuba. Even China is privatizing.

Yes we are entitled to every test and every treatment. That's why we live longer, with better health. Your insurance companies dictate what tests and treatments they pay for. You have preapprovals and copays. We have none of that.

You've been sold the idea you have better health care. You do not not even close. You have more expensive health care. Your outcomes aren't better. Your life expectancy is lower.

When you can prove our lower life expectancy has anything to do with our healthcare, by all means, please post that evidence. In the meantime, I'll posts some other factors that lower our life expectancy.

Canada also has lower automobile deaths than we have here in the US. You have 6 deaths per 100,000 people and we have 10.6 per 100,000 people:

List of countries by traffic-related death rate - Wikipedia

We also have 8% more obese people than Canada--something healthcare can't control.

Adult obesity prevalence in Canada and the United States

So there are many reasons for our lower life expectancy rate than Canada, and when you consider most of our murders and automobile deaths involve younger people, that drags the numbers down quite a bit.

 

[imawhosure]

Having everyone on at least a fundamental, Medicare-like system is:

1. Good economics, as having easy access to preventive and diagnostic services catches non-acute problems before they become far more expensive, acute issues
2. Good business, as it would take a massive cost monkey off the backs of American businesses, which have no reason to be involved in health care on any level
3. One sign of an intelligent, advanced society that values human life and quality of life, as it understands that we are no longer hamstrung by an Old West mentality

Our already-functioning Medicare/Medicare Advantage/Medicare Supplement system would accomplish all of the above, and it would maintain a dynamic competitive free market insurance landscape.

And oh, by the way: Would anyone like to defend the fact that we currently have SEVEN DIFFERENT DELIVERY/PAYMENT SYSTEMS in this country, NONE of which communicates seamlessly with the others?

1. Group Health
2. Individual Health (ACA)
3. Medicare
4. Medicaid
5. VA
6. Worker's Compensation
7. Indigent

Would anyone like to stand up and tell us this is smart? Go ahead. Knock it out of the park.
.

I would reply this way---------> exactly WHEN did healthcare and higher education start rising much faster than inflation? ANSWER----->when the government got involved. Affordable healthcare was lost BECAUSE of the government, just as it was for higher education.

I challenge anyone to look at the timelines for BOTH products, and this will instantly become apparent.

Also, I again ask-----------> how can you give someone a RIGHT if it denies others their rights, regardless if it is for the GOOD of the people or not! I am older. Suppose from the time I was 18, I worked on a drug that could cure cancer. It took me years, upon years, and after getting investors to pay for the trials, it is discovered that it will cure EVERY FORM OF CANCER known to man!

How much is that worth!

Doesn't make a difference, because if I charge what it is worth under the patent that I have exclusive rights to, the government healthcare system would go BROKE! I would be EVIL. And yet, the reason I did it was NOT for just humanity, but also for profit.

So which solution would the lefties choose----------> go broke, or force my company to sell it cheap; in essence DENYING me my rights!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Who should go without?

The poor, low income working Americans, the disabled, the elderly, and those who ‘failed’ to be successful in life where they don’t ‘deserve’ access to healthcare.

It’s the neo-Social Darwinism of the reprehensible right.

Show us in the US where they can't get care. Do it now.

The issue isn't getting care. Its the cost of care that's the problem. If people have to sell their homes to pay for medical bills then that shows its a problem with our system. We pay taxes. The government should use those taxes to give us health coverage instead of spending it on rich people tax cuts and military spending.

The second you get government involved you get waste. Want to lower the cost of insurance? Allow cross state competition currently illegal thanks to regulations the insurance company's asked for so they could build their monopolies. Also, limit the outrageous money payed out for malpractice and initiate "loser pays" laws that will eliminate frivolous lawsuits that harm all of us. A good friend of mine is a surgeon who has never had a complaint. He is still forced to pay 250,000 a year for malpractice insurance. That's absurd.

Other countries have had universal healthcare for 40+ years and they are still functioning. Insurance companies are the problem. Even if thr rates are lower, insurance companies like to give the run around on what they'll pay for. Insurance companies are the biggest thieves around.

I'm sorry but I'll trust government run universal healthcare over insurance companies any day.

With insurance companies you have contracts. They are obligated by law to pay for what's included in that contract. You have no contract with government. They can cover (or not cover) whatever they want.