If you are a veteran, how can you support Obama's Iran deal?

[Ringel05]

Like I said before, mankind has been locked in conflict for time immemorial, the deadly global game of chess goes on and millions of lives are spent.

What's funny is I don't believe in Nostradamus as a profit however he did say one thing that stuck with me since I read it as a teenager:
The Eagle will defeat the Bear, the Dragon will overcome them all........... Makes me wonder if he might have gotten one right........ Scary thought....... Preventing that might be a worthwhile reason to spend one's life.

 

[Ringel05]

Yes, Nguyen Van Thieu did what you stated but the peace talks had just started. It wasn't just Nixon who dragged it out. Like I said the NV were most culpable for drawing out the peace talks for as long as they lasted. They didn't really start negotiating seriously until 1972 after a major falling out with the Chinese, the Chinese who had constantly urged NV to not negotiate in earnest. Even after 72 the NV continuously fell back on their recalcitrant negotiating tactics.
Of course there was a lot of posturing and back and forth on both sides but ya have to understand, mankind has been involved in this (currently) global "chess game" since we started vying with one another for and against power and control and we're all pawns.

I'll disagree and source the BBC The Lyndon Johnson tapes Richard Nixon s treason - BBC News George Will also independently verified these facts.

North Vietnam s Talk-Fight Strategy and the 1968 Peace Negotiations with the United States Wilson Center

If you read through you'll see the NV had no sincerity in the peace talks until the very end.

No doubt that is true, the NV were caught between a rock and a hard place. But it doesn't discount what Americans were doing on our side and how it affected the war. What motivates talk about peace are the consequences of war and with more than a million dead they were in a tough negotiating position and only secure as the Chinese made them feel. We on the other hand were a country at odds over a peace agreement and we allowed our politicians to sink to the lowest levels to exert their will on it. Certainly the NV, Russians and Chinese knew how unpopular the war was here it may have affected their judgment, but I know that our politicians were determined to salvage what they could out of it. I think the answer is somewhere in the middle but like I said it is what it is. A chapter of history better off forgotten except for the dead.

Everything is nearly always 20/20 in retrospect.........

Very true, I guess that's why I love history it helps sort out the details that I sometimes let get in the way.

Yup, history fanatic here, heck it's one of my degrees. Did living history and reenactments (Civil War and WWII) for 25 years, never stopped studying, never stopped learning. Was planning on getting involved in the Fur Trade Era till we moved from Colorado to El Paso TX.

 

[nuhuh]

I'll disagree and source the BBC The Lyndon Johnson tapes Richard Nixon s treason - BBC News George Will also independently verified these facts.

North Vietnam s Talk-Fight Strategy and the 1968 Peace Negotiations with the United States Wilson Center

If you read through you'll see the NV had no sincerity in the peace talks until the very end.

No doubt that is true, the NV were caught between a rock and a hard place. But it doesn't discount what Americans were doing on our side and how it affected the war. What motivates talk about peace are the consequences of war and with more than a million dead they were in a tough negotiating position and only secure as the Chinese made them feel. We on the other hand were a country at odds over a peace agreement and we allowed our politicians to sink to the lowest levels to exert their will on it. Certainly the NV, Russians and Chinese knew how unpopular the war was here it may have affected their judgment, but I know that our politicians were determined to salvage what they could out of it. I think the answer is somewhere in the middle but like I said it is what it is. A chapter of history better off forgotten except for the dead.

Everything is nearly always 20/20 in retrospect.........

Very true, I guess that's why I love history it helps sort out the details that I sometimes let get in the way.

Yup, history fanatic here, heck it's one of my degrees. Did living history and reenactments (Civil War and WWII) for 25 years, never stopped studying, never stopped learning. Was planning on getting involved in the Fur Trade Era till we moved from Colorado to El Paso TX.

Fantastic, I have a history minor and love visiting places where I can visualize the entire history of a place. Good talking to you tonight.

 

[TemplarKormac]

4,486 U.S. military deaths in Iraq are directly linked to the incompetence of the GOP and their flock of morons who supported them during the 2000's. If you're a veteran, how can you support the GOP?

Over 50,000 American deaths in Vietnam attributable to a war-mongering Democrat?

Over a million enemy and civilian deaths. Started by a Democrat, ended by a Republican.

Bullshit. When Richard Nixon could have had peace he sabotaged the Paris Peace talks and the war continued with 20,000 deaths that did not have to happen.

Were you contributing with this piece of diatribe? You intentionally made a historically inaccurate assertion, as only a historical revisionist would do. You thusly hijacked the dialogue from that post.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Stop while you're ahead. The facts are what they are and they are indisputable. I left my blood on the ground of that country so don't even try to create facts out of your ass.

Interestingly enough, placating your blood on the field of battle does not give you sway over actual facts.

 

[nuhuh]

4,486 U.S. military deaths in Iraq are directly linked to the incompetence of the GOP and their flock of morons who supported them during the 2000's. If you're a veteran, how can you support the GOP?

Over 50,000 American deaths in Vietnam attributable to a war-mongering Democrat?

Over a million enemy and civilian deaths. Started by a Democrat, ended by a Republican.

Bullshit. When Richard Nixon could have had peace he sabotaged the Paris Peace talks and the war continued with 20,000 deaths that did not have to happen.

Were you contributing with this piece of diatribe? You intentionally made a historically inaccurate assertion, as only a historical revisionist would do. You thusly hijacked the dialogue from that post.

No I didn't, I sourced the information. Do you want me to source George Will's agreement that it actually happened?

 

[nuhuh]

Stop while you're ahead. The facts are what they are and they are indisputable. I left my blood on the ground of that country so don't even try to create facts out of your ass.

Interestingly enough, placating your blood on the field of battle does not give you sway over actual facts.

It gives me an understanding of the facts that you will never have.

 

[TemplarKormac]

4,486 U.S. military deaths in Iraq are directly linked to the incompetence of the GOP and their flock of morons who supported them during the 2000's. If you're a veteran, how can you support the GOP?

Over 50,000 American deaths in Vietnam attributable to a war-mongering Democrat?

Over a million enemy and civilian deaths. Started by a Democrat, ended by a Republican.

Bullshit. When Richard Nixon could have had peace he sabotaged the Paris Peace talks and the war continued with 20,000 deaths that did not have to happen.

Were you contributing with this piece of diatribe? You intentionally made a historically inaccurate assertion, as only a historical revisionist would do. You thusly hijacked the dialogue from that post.

No I didn't I sourced the information. Do you want me to source George Will's agreement that it actually happened?

I read it. Just because George Will agrees with it, doesn't make it true. I see Ringel whipped you so badly that you had to back down and play nice. You lied through your teeth and got called out on it.

 

[TemplarKormac]

It gives me an understanding of the facts that you will never have.

Sure it does. It gives you free reign over historicity, or more rather, the permission to revise it. Whether you be a Minor or a PhD in the study of history; it doesn't make it right for you to take history out of context or simply revise it altogether.

 

[Liminal]

This is what Iran's involvement has done to U.S. soldiers...

"At least 500 U.S. military deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan were directly linked to Iran and its support for anti-American militants — a newly disclosed statistic that offers grim context for the Obama administration's diplomatic deal with the Iranian regime aimed at curtailing the rogue nation's nuclear ambitions..."

Iran linked to deaths of 500 U.S. troops in Iraq Afghanistan

How? How do you think? The normal way, the way we always do with every nation after every conflict. You by products made in Vietnam all the time. Following your logic I'm pretty sure that makes you some kind of traitor.

 

[TemplarKormac]

You by products made in Vietnam all the time. Following your logic I'm pretty sure that makes you some kind of traitor.

I'm pretty sure that's a false cause argument.

 

[nuhuh]

It gives me an understanding of the facts that you will never have.

Sure it does. It gives you free reign over historicity, or more rather, the permission to revise it.

Honestly, I try to keep to the facts whether they are favorable to my position or not. I just like the closest version of the truth.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I just like the closest version of the truth.

How about the actual truth, friend?

 

[Liminal]

You by products made in Vietnam all the time. Following your logic I'm pretty sure that makes you some kind of traitor.

I'm pretty sure that's a false cause argument.

No, you're wrong, it follows the idiot emotionalism perfectly.

 

[TemplarKormac]

No, you're wrong, it follows the idiot emotionalism perfectly.

...ad hominem

 

[Liminal]

No, you're wrong, it follows the idiot emotionalism perfectly.

...ad hominem

Predictable pro forma.

 

[TemplarKormac]

No, you're wrong, it follows the idiot emotionalism perfectly.

...ad hominem

Predictable pro forma.

Hardly. Are you here to contribute? Or call people idiots?

 

[Liminal]

No, you're wrong, it follows the idiot emotionalism perfectly.

...ad hominem

Predictable pro forma.

Hardly. Are you here to contribute? Or call people idiots?

Recognizing profound idiocy is my contribution. Think of it as a public service.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Recognizing profound idiocy is my contribution. Think of it as a public service.

Ohhhkaaay....

 

[Wildman]

If you're a veteran, how can you support the GOP?

i am a retired Vet of 25 years, it is not a mater of suppoerting the GOP, i despise the fucking demorats for the tens of thousands of military men and women killed by the demorats, e.g., TWW, FDR, HST and LBJ, the blood on their hands far out number the military men and women killed by ANY GOP administration.

so it up......., commie !