I'm a teacher. Here's why I am cheering my new freedom from unions

[Ray From Cleveland]

Public employees should never have been permitted to unionize. Even Franklin Roosevelt realized that!

Unionizing is not the problem. Being able to negotiate for salaries and benefits are the problem. It allows them to hold taxpayers hostage. Federal workers have working unions and they are not allowed to bargain for salaries or benefits.

When unions bargain with employers, they are negotiating the employers money. When government unions negotiate, they are negotiating taxpayer money with people who are also paid by taxpayers. People will put up much more resistance negotiating their own money than people who negotiate other people's money.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I've noticed a few things from this post that are trendy...

1) Not a one poster puts one iota of responsibility on the kids. In your minds they just show up and a good teacher will make them a genius. No effort required by the kid. It's 100 percent in the teacher in every case.

2) Teachers should ask for lower wages and should never get a raise....but every other worker is exempt from that standard.

3) Many see it as easy and overpaid yet they chose not to be a teacher. But if someone complains about a CEO heck they will defend his or her bloated salary.

4) Bad teachers in most states are let go when the principal seems it necessary. Good productive teachers are also let go. Where I love teachers are let go from time to time and sometimes with no reason. I served on our school board for many years and have seen both happen.

5) Quit your kind and move to a troubled school and help fix the problem.

6) union's are going away and that might be good I guess. However when they are gone and things don't change much then who will you blame?

Ok I'll look at these
1)The kids are responsible, but you cant force them to care, that takes parents and teachers.
2)good teachers should get raises, bad ones fired......it's not difficult
3)Who said it was easy? I have backed teachers to get the unions and adminstrators out of the classroom, so teachers are allowed to control their class and teach what is required.
4)Bad teachers are hard to get rid of, most go to the rubber room and still draw pay......no thanks
5)good point, but that's why we hire teachers and administrators.
6)when unions are gone, we'll blame the adminstrators, because it's their job to run the school. they will now have the power to hire/fire and promote/demote teachers based on merit, not some bs union seniority scheme.

Thank you for your input. I didn't post the original but I would like to address some points.

1) So why do most people put all the blame on the teachers?
2) How do you determine a bad teacher? That is the actual difficult part.
3) Controlling the classroom is often determined to be the sign of a bad teacher.
4) You are using per hyperbole. The "rubber rooms" were made famous by NYC. They do not exist hardly anywhere else in this country. Most teachers get suspended without pay.
5) I am glad you agree.
6) Where do you get the idea that teachers are promoted to anything? I started as a teacher and 20 years later I was still a teacher. Getting promoted to administration has nothing to do with unions as they do not represent administrators.

Good counter points

1) Because they are the ones paid to teach. Like I said unions are a huge problem because they have rules along with adminstrators, that took almost any power of a teacher to control a classroom or how to present material. Without unions, the hope is teachers will be able to run their class as they see fit, as long as they stick to the basic curriculum.
2)Well that's the standardized tests, as well as maybe interviewing students and their parents.
3)HUH??? I know you're being abstract, but I'm not getting it, so we must be thinking of 2 very different things. Mine is making them behave, so the atmosphere is conducive to learning.
4)If that's the case, then good. But NYC is a major area and it needs to be cleaned up.
5)we agree
6)Promotions, raises. I know most stay teachers, but if they have any new titles or governmentish promotion opportunities, then good, if not, also ok, but at least let good teachers get raises, even if they don't want a promotion.

1) You obviously have never taught anyone anything. Ever hear the expression that you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink? How do I teach a kid with their head down and asleep because they played video games all night?
2) How would you grade teachers that teach special education students and low performers? To everyone outside education it all looks so easy, until you know the truth, which you never bother to learn.
3) Keeping the students quiet while lecturing is viewed as ineffective by most administrators. I ran afoul of my administrators all the time because to teach math, you explain while they listen, work problems together and then let them work alone. If they were not math teachers, they wanted some goofy "project" or applied learning activity.
4) NYC is a gnat's ass compared to flyover country.
5) Done
6) Those pay raises, called step increases, we got sometime amounted to less than $100 a year. Now there is an incentive to go the extra mile! In my 20 year career, I never made as much money in a year as I did my last year of active duty in the Navy. That's sad! What you don't seem to understand is that most teachers are good, and trying to figure out which teacher would be deserving of a promotion just denigrates the whole process down into politics. That's why unions existed. My oldest two kids went to the school where I taught, and I had numerous run-ins with my own boss about my kids. Do you think he would not hold that against me for being a parent first and an employee second?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

It is so sad that you have such little grasp of why dropout rates are an indicator of anything involving educational practices.

I have a full grasp on how useless the Ed Dept has been. I'm aware there are a wide variety of reasons kids drop out, but one of the main reasons is poor teachers. I only takes one to sour a student on school. I had a lot of teachers over the years, most were very good, however I only remember the names of the bad ones almost 50 years after I graduated form high school, they were both in Jr. High. Good teachers motivate kids to show up and learn, others make you want to stay in bed.


.

You do realize that they survey dropouts as to why they left school and bad teachers are not the cause.

One of the chief reasons that kids drop out of school is they have not learned the basics and reach a point where they no longer understand what is being taught. The school system has failed them.

Bull crap! Kids drop out because they are too lazy to do what is necessary to learn. That is why kids who have parents involved in their education rarely if ever drop out. I saw it it for 20 years.

Your opinion is noted and rejected. I was a teacher in the U.S. Navy, and had to deal with many of the failures of the public school systems. We had to teach them math and science before we could begin teaching them electrical and electronic theory.

OK, buckwheat! I was an Electronics Technician before I wore khakis. I also did a tour in recruiting and now do recruiting for the Army. The ASVAB should have weeded out any poor students, so that dog won't hunt!

Try again.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

It is so sad that you have such little grasp of why dropout rates are an indicator of anything involving educational practices.

I have a full grasp on how useless the Ed Dept has been. I'm aware there are a wide variety of reasons kids drop out, but one of the main reasons is poor teachers. I only takes one to sour a student on school. I had a lot of teachers over the years, most were very good, however I only remember the names of the bad ones almost 50 years after I graduated form high school, they were both in Jr. High. Good teachers motivate kids to show up and learn, others make you want to stay in bed.


.

You do realize that they survey dropouts as to why they left school and bad teachers are not the cause.

One of the chief reasons that kids drop out of school is they have not learned the basics and reach a point where they no longer understand what is being taught. The school system has failed them.

Bull crap! Kids drop out because they are too lazy to do what is necessary to learn. That is why kids who have parents involved in their education rarely if ever drop out. I saw it it for 20 years.

True parents are important, probably the most important factor. But we can't do anything about that. The closest would be to threaten to kick them out, then maybe the parents would wake up.
So now we're back to teachers. Giving teachers more flexibility to teach would be good. I once had a social studies teacher construct a map, we couldn't see and we grouped up and pretended to be explorers and every day we got so many moves and as we moved we would see the map and maybe discover stuff. It didn't take long, it was fun and got students engaged and interested in the subject. Another thing she did was tell us we found some battle plans during the civil war and we needed to decide if they were real of fake and then we had go into groups and each group had to come up with a strategy based on that decision, it was very fun and worked. (the plans were real, it was based on a real incident in the Civil War)

So my point is teachers can make things interesting and they can make them boring and some it wont matter what you do, but you just have to do your best. teaching is about creativity as much as it is about giving knowledge.

OK, but none of that has any bearing on what they need to learn. Those activities you discussed would take up so much time that no real learning could take place. I'm sorry, but the touchy-feely fun crap that some teachers did was because they did not know their subject material.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm expecting them to cut our social security benefits by about 25%. They will tell us, "in order to save it we have to make these cuts" and the American people will bend over and take it.

And the Democrat solution is to make people work later in life which many people can't do depending on the work they're in. People in construction trades barely make it to 65 now. Many retire yearly at 62 because their body can't take it any longer.

Will the private accounts pay more? For a lot of poor people they put in a little and there are hidden fees/administrative costs that end up eating away the gains. I had this myself on one small investment I had for about 10 years. I kept noticing that the $2000 never hardly ever grew. In 10 years it was still $2000. Why? Because there were fees the bank was charging me for managing this investment. Inactive fee. So to stop this I had to invest $50 every year to avoid the inactivity fee.

That's the idea of a growth fund. You keep putting in. My employer and I only contribute a third of what we have to put into SS every month, and my IRA is six figures now. We only had it about 20 years or so. I can only imagine what that account would be worth today if I invested all my (and my employers) SS contributions all these years. I would easily be a multi-millionaire today, and I'm still seven years until retirement age.

For poor people that’s a bad investment that shouldn’t even exist

And real liberals want it to be 62. So do I. Do you? Then you’re not a republican

Of course I do. That would only be four more years of working for me, and I'd be delighted. But liberals always want things they don't pay for.

If you want these programs, the solution is simple: pay for them. Increase SS contributions by about 20%. Increase Medicare contributions by 50%. Hey, if that's what you want, pay for it, but don't expect others to pay for these programs for you.

Do I pay enough into the program? I don't really know. Do you know? I think we probably pay our fair share. And a long time ago the rich and powerful politicians decided the rich had an obligation to pay a little more. It's just simply how the system works. Key word, WORKS. The way you want to do it, it doesn't work. That's why we came up with the New Deal. And it worked. But slowly over the decades since the rich and powerful have taken over our government and they're starving it. They've broken the social contract. And what they've convinced you is fair, does not work. It works for the rich but not you and I. And nothing you promote will make things better for the masses. For you and I. You've just been convinced that it's poor people and immigrants that have ruined your life. Sorry Ray, it's the rich that have fucked you.

And you seem to know it when you point at Democrats. What you don't seem to admit or believe is that the GOP are the real rich ruling class and you're a fool for supporting them. That is all.

 

[initforme]

A worker has to have some way of getting a raise. If the employer wishes to keep an employer then a pay raise is needed. A worker should be given a raise now and then. I know some are against this for whatever sick twisted reason.

 

[Unkotare]

I'm expecting them to cut our social security benefits by about 25%. They will tell us, "in order to save it we have to make these cuts" and the American people will bend over and take it.

And the Democrat solution is to make people work later in life which many people can't do depending on the work they're in. People in construction trades barely make it to 65 now. Many retire yearly at 62 because their body can't take it any longer.

Will the private accounts pay more? For a lot of poor people they put in a little and there are hidden fees/administrative costs that end up eating away the gains. I had this myself on one small investment I had for about 10 years. I kept noticing that the $2000 never hardly ever grew. In 10 years it was still $2000. Why? Because there were fees the bank was charging me for managing this investment. Inactive fee. So to stop this I had to invest $50 every year to avoid the inactivity fee.

That's the idea of a growth fund. You keep putting in. My employer and I only contribute a third of what we have to put into SS every month, and my IRA is six figures now. We only had it about 20 years or so. I can only imagine what that account would be worth today if I invested all my (and my employers) SS contributions all these years. I would easily be a multi-millionaire today, and I'm still seven years until retirement age.

For poor people that’s a bad investment that shouldn’t even exist

And real liberals want it to be 62. So do I. Do you? Then you’re not a republican

Of course I do. That would only be four more years of working for me, and I'd be delighted. But liberals always want things they don't pay for.

If you want these programs, the solution is simple: pay for them. Increase SS contributions by about 20%. Increase Medicare contributions by 50%. Hey, if that's what you want, pay for it, but don't expect others to pay for these programs for you.

Do I pay enough into the program? I don't really know. Do you know? I think we probably pay our fair share. And a long time ago the rich and powerful politicians decided the rich had an obligation to pay a little more. It's just simply how the system works. Key word, WORKS. The way you want to do it, it doesn't work. That's why we came up with the New Deal. And it worked. But slowly over the decades since the rich and powerful have taken over our government and they're starving it. They've broken the social contract. And what they've convinced you is fair, does not work. It works for the rich but not you and I. And nothing you promote will make things better for the masses. For you and I. You've just been convinced that it's poor people and immigrants that have ruined your life. Sorry Ray, it's the rich that have fucked you.

And you seem to know it when you point at Democrats. What you don't seem to admit or believe is that the GOP are the real rich ruling class and you're a fool for supporting them. That is all.

Mindless Democrats to realize they are getting no traction going into the mid term elections are desperate for class warfare of course.

 

[depotoo]

Starving it? Lol No, the ones starving it are those elected to it that bribe every Tom, Dick, and Harriet, we will take care of you, rather than provide the country with a way to create jobs that will feed them on their own, rather than under the thumb of those that could care less of their own self sufficient existence.

I'm expecting them to cut our social security benefits by about 25%. They will tell us, "in order to save it we have to make these cuts" and the American people will bend over and take it.

And the Democrat solution is to make people work later in life which many people can't do depending on the work they're in. People in construction trades barely make it to 65 now. Many retire yearly at 62 because their body can't take it any longer.

Will the private accounts pay more? For a lot of poor people they put in a little and there are hidden fees/administrative costs that end up eating away the gains. I had this myself on one small investment I had for about 10 years. I kept noticing that the $2000 never hardly ever grew. In 10 years it was still $2000. Why? Because there were fees the bank was charging me for managing this investment. Inactive fee. So to stop this I had to invest $50 every year to avoid the inactivity fee.

That's the idea of a growth fund. You keep putting in. My employer and I only contribute a third of what we have to put into SS every month, and my IRA is six figures now. We only had it about 20 years or so. I can only imagine what that account would be worth today if I invested all my (and my employers) SS contributions all these years. I would easily be a multi-millionaire today, and I'm still seven years until retirement age.

For poor people that’s a bad investment that shouldn’t even exist

And real liberals want it to be 62. So do I. Do you? Then you’re not a republican

Of course I do. That would only be four more years of working for me, and I'd be delighted. But liberals always want things they don't pay for.

If you want these programs, the solution is simple: pay for them. Increase SS contributions by about 20%. Increase Medicare contributions by 50%. Hey, if that's what you want, pay for it, but don't expect others to pay for these programs for you.

Do I pay enough into the program? I don't really know. Do you know? I think we probably pay our fair share. And a long time ago the rich and powerful politicians decided the rich had an obligation to pay a little more. It's just simply how the system works. Key word, WORKS. The way you want to do it, it doesn't work. That's why we came up with the New Deal. And it worked. But slowly over the decades since the rich and powerful have taken over our government and they're starving it. They've broken the social contract. And what they've convinced you is fair, does not work. It works for the rich but not you and I. And nothing you promote will make things better for the masses. For you and I. You've just been convinced that it's poor people and immigrants that have ruined your life. Sorry Ray, it's the rich that have fucked you.

And you seem to know it when you point at Democrats. What you don't seem to admit or believe is that the GOP are the real rich ruling class and you're a fool for supporting them. That is all.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm expecting them to cut our social security benefits by about 25%. They will tell us, "in order to save it we have to make these cuts" and the American people will bend over and take it.

And the Democrat solution is to make people work later in life which many people can't do depending on the work they're in. People in construction trades barely make it to 65 now. Many retire yearly at 62 because their body can't take it any longer.

Will the private accounts pay more? For a lot of poor people they put in a little and there are hidden fees/administrative costs that end up eating away the gains. I had this myself on one small investment I had for about 10 years. I kept noticing that the $2000 never hardly ever grew. In 10 years it was still $2000. Why? Because there were fees the bank was charging me for managing this investment. Inactive fee. So to stop this I had to invest $50 every year to avoid the inactivity fee.

That's the idea of a growth fund. You keep putting in. My employer and I only contribute a third of what we have to put into SS every month, and my IRA is six figures now. We only had it about 20 years or so. I can only imagine what that account would be worth today if I invested all my (and my employers) SS contributions all these years. I would easily be a multi-millionaire today, and I'm still seven years until retirement age.

For poor people that’s a bad investment that shouldn’t even exist

And real liberals want it to be 62. So do I. Do you? Then you’re not a republican

Of course I do. That would only be four more years of working for me, and I'd be delighted. But liberals always want things they don't pay for.

If you want these programs, the solution is simple: pay for them. Increase SS contributions by about 20%. Increase Medicare contributions by 50%. Hey, if that's what you want, pay for it, but don't expect others to pay for these programs for you.

Do I pay enough into the program? I don't really know. Do you know? I think we probably pay our fair share. And a long time ago the rich and powerful politicians decided the rich had an obligation to pay a little more. It's just simply how the system works. Key word, WORKS. The way you want to do it, it doesn't work. That's why we came up with the New Deal. And it worked. But slowly over the decades since the rich and powerful have taken over our government and they're starving it. They've broken the social contract. And what they've convinced you is fair, does not work. It works for the rich but not you and I. And nothing you promote will make things better for the masses. For you and I. You've just been convinced that it's poor people and immigrants that have ruined your life. Sorry Ray, it's the rich that have fucked you.

And you seem to know it when you point at Democrats. What you don't seem to admit or believe is that the GOP are the real rich ruling class and you're a fool for supporting them. That is all.

Mindless Democrats to realize they are getting no traction going into the mid term elections are desperate for class warfare of course.

Excuse me? Didn't they just fuck teachers unions? Why don't you like your union? Don't you have job security and aren't you going to get a pension? Do you think they would pay you as much as they do if you weren't in a union?

 

[sealybobo]

I'm expecting them to cut our social security benefits by about 25%. They will tell us, "in order to save it we have to make these cuts" and the American people will bend over and take it.

And the Democrat solution is to make people work later in life which many people can't do depending on the work they're in. People in construction trades barely make it to 65 now. Many retire yearly at 62 because their body can't take it any longer.

Will the private accounts pay more? For a lot of poor people they put in a little and there are hidden fees/administrative costs that end up eating away the gains. I had this myself on one small investment I had for about 10 years. I kept noticing that the $2000 never hardly ever grew. In 10 years it was still $2000. Why? Because there were fees the bank was charging me for managing this investment. Inactive fee. So to stop this I had to invest $50 every year to avoid the inactivity fee.

That's the idea of a growth fund. You keep putting in. My employer and I only contribute a third of what we have to put into SS every month, and my IRA is six figures now. We only had it about 20 years or so. I can only imagine what that account would be worth today if I invested all my (and my employers) SS contributions all these years. I would easily be a multi-millionaire today, and I'm still seven years until retirement age.

For poor people that’s a bad investment that shouldn’t even exist

And real liberals want it to be 62. So do I. Do you? Then you’re not a republican

Of course I do. That would only be four more years of working for me, and I'd be delighted. But liberals always want things they don't pay for.

If you want these programs, the solution is simple: pay for them. Increase SS contributions by about 20%. Increase Medicare contributions by 50%. Hey, if that's what you want, pay for it, but don't expect others to pay for these programs for you.

Do I pay enough into the program? I don't really know. Do you know? I think we probably pay our fair share. And a long time ago the rich and powerful politicians decided the rich had an obligation to pay a little more. It's just simply how the system works. Key word, WORKS. The way you want to do it, it doesn't work. That's why we came up with the New Deal. And it worked. But slowly over the decades since the rich and powerful have taken over our government and they're starving it. They've broken the social contract. And what they've convinced you is fair, does not work. It works for the rich but not you and I. And nothing you promote will make things better for the masses. For you and I. You've just been convinced that it's poor people and immigrants that have ruined your life. Sorry Ray, it's the rich that have fucked you.

And you seem to know it when you point at Democrats. What you don't seem to admit or believe is that the GOP are the real rich ruling class and you're a fool for supporting them. That is all.

Mindless Democrats to realize they are getting no traction going into the mid term elections are desperate for class warfare of course.

Starting salaries for teachers vary depending on school district, state, etc., but around here it’s about $35,000/year. This is after completing your degree - at least a 4-year degree but more often these days it’s a 5-year degree and if you have any hope of appreciably moving up the pay scale or advancing past being a classroom teacher, you’re going to need a master’s degree and maybe a Ph.D. Tuition and fees are averaging about what the first year salary is - and that’s gross, not net - so it’s going to take a long time to pay off the cost of getting that degree. And let’s talk about the salary for a minute - remember, that’s gross, not net. Aside from payroll taxes, teachers pay into healthcare, as most employees do these days. But on top of all of that, they “contribute” to their state retirement, local union, state union and the National Education Association - whether they want to or not, because it’s part of their contract, and good luck getting out of it. Additionally, every teacher I know pays for most of their classroom materials out of their own pocket, often even buying students materials because they can’t afford them. These aren’t cheap; my husband spent anywhere from $1,000/year and up for materials, tools (he taught a vocational program), and even materials to repair his classroom, furniture and shop, because the school couldn’t afford it or was so understaffed that it never got done unless the teachers did it.

Schools in poor, rural districts are the hardest hit by nation's growing teacher shortage | APM Reports

No one wants your shitty job btw

 

[buckeye45_73]

True parents are important, probably the most important factor. But we can't do anything about that. The closest would be to threaten to kick them out, then maybe the parents would wake up.

Sure there is something you can do about it. My sister had problems with her daughter, and she made sure that kid passed because she was paying 12K a year for her private schooling.

What happens (at least here in my state) is that parents pay the same for schooling (property tax) as those without any kids in school. Maybe if parents paid more towards the system so that those not using it could pay less, they would have a dog in the race. People are more concerned if it's their money being wasted instead of everybody else.

I'd be ok with that as well. I'm still a fan of vouchers as well....it gives the parents the responsibility to choose the school and that would make them more involved.

 

[buckeye45_73]

I've noticed a few things from this post that are trendy...

1) Not a one poster puts one iota of responsibility on the kids. In your minds they just show up and a good teacher will make them a genius. No effort required by the kid. It's 100 percent in the teacher in every case.

2) Teachers should ask for lower wages and should never get a raise....but every other worker is exempt from that standard.

3) Many see it as easy and overpaid yet they chose not to be a teacher. But if someone complains about a CEO heck they will defend his or her bloated salary.

4) Bad teachers in most states are let go when the principal seems it necessary. Good productive teachers are also let go. Where I love teachers are let go from time to time and sometimes with no reason. I served on our school board for many years and have seen both happen.

5) Quit your kind and move to a troubled school and help fix the problem.

6) union's are going away and that might be good I guess. However when they are gone and things don't change much then who will you blame?

Ok I'll look at these
1)The kids are responsible, but you cant force them to care, that takes parents and teachers.
2)good teachers should get raises, bad ones fired......it's not difficult
3)Who said it was easy? I have backed teachers to get the unions and adminstrators out of the classroom, so teachers are allowed to control their class and teach what is required.
4)Bad teachers are hard to get rid of, most go to the rubber room and still draw pay......no thanks
5)good point, but that's why we hire teachers and administrators.
6)when unions are gone, we'll blame the adminstrators, because it's their job to run the school. they will now have the power to hire/fire and promote/demote teachers based on merit, not some bs union seniority scheme.

Thank you for your input. I didn't post the original but I would like to address some points.

1) So why do most people put all the blame on the teachers?
2) How do you determine a bad teacher? That is the actual difficult part.
3) Controlling the classroom is often determined to be the sign of a bad teacher.
4) You are using per hyperbole. The "rubber rooms" were made famous by NYC. They do not exist hardly anywhere else in this country. Most teachers get suspended without pay.
5) I am glad you agree.
6) Where do you get the idea that teachers are promoted to anything? I started as a teacher and 20 years later I was still a teacher. Getting promoted to administration has nothing to do with unions as they do not represent administrators.

Good counter points

1) Because they are the ones paid to teach. Like I said unions are a huge problem because they have rules along with adminstrators, that took almost any power of a teacher to control a classroom or how to present material. Without unions, the hope is teachers will be able to run their class as they see fit, as long as they stick to the basic curriculum.
2)Well that's the standardized tests, as well as maybe interviewing students and their parents.
3)HUH??? I know you're being abstract, but I'm not getting it, so we must be thinking of 2 very different things. Mine is making them behave, so the atmosphere is conducive to learning.
4)If that's the case, then good. But NYC is a major area and it needs to be cleaned up.
5)we agree
6)Promotions, raises. I know most stay teachers, but if they have any new titles or governmentish promotion opportunities, then good, if not, also ok, but at least let good teachers get raises, even if they don't want a promotion.

1) You obviously have never taught anyone anything. Ever hear the expression that you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink? How do I teach a kid with their head down and asleep because they played video games all night?
2) How would you grade teachers that teach special education students and low performers? To everyone outside education it all looks so easy, until you know the truth, which you never bother to learn.
3) Keeping the students quiet while lecturing is viewed as ineffective by most administrators. I ran afoul of my administrators all the time because to teach math, you explain while they listen, work problems together and then let them work alone. If they were not math teachers, they wanted some goofy "project" or applied learning activity.
4) NYC is a gnat's ass compared to flyover country.
5) Done
6) Those pay raises, called step increases, we got sometime amounted to less than $100 a year. Now there is an incentive to go the extra mile! In my 20 year career, I never made as much money in a year as I did my last year of active duty in the Navy. That's sad! What you don't seem to understand is that most teachers are good, and trying to figure out which teacher would be deserving of a promotion just denigrates the whole process down into politics. That's why unions existed. My oldest two kids went to the school where I taught, and I had numerous run-ins with my own boss about my kids. Do you think he would not hold that against me for being a parent first and an employee second?

ok so how do you solve 1) ? Unions don't do it.
Kids don't give a crap about school, because they aren't interested in it. I gave you a stories about how just one social studies teacher got me interested in subjects, school is for the most part boring. Teachers need to make it interesting. But your scenario is useless because what can you do with that? Fail them? Hold them back? I'm for those, but not the unions and admins, because again they don't care about students and are worried about parents. They need to get some balls, you hold a kid back, his parents(unless they are useless addicts or similar) will make sure things get done. They have to see a consequence for inaction.
2) Just like one, you are using leftwing attacks with very special cases, like on abortion, what about rape and incest? Well those don't happen that often, I'm worried about MOST of the students, the others have programs and classes for that.
3)HUH? what are they expecting then? And again I said the teachers should have control, not the admins or unions.
4) Yes, but it's also a huge school district and many of the poor and low performing students you talk about come from large districts like NYC. You have to deal with them.
6)Ok, then we need to retool the pay structure, I'm not sure what the argument is here?

 

[Unkotare]

I've noticed a few things from this post that are trendy...

1) Not a one poster puts one iota of responsibility on the kids. In your minds they just show up and a good teacher will make them a genius. No effort required by the kid. It's 100 percent in the teacher in every case.

2) Teachers should ask for lower wages and should never get a raise....but every other worker is exempt from that standard.

3) Many see it as easy and overpaid yet they chose not to be a teacher. But if someone complains about a CEO heck they will defend his or her bloated salary.

4) Bad teachers in most states are let go when the principal seems it necessary. Good productive teachers are also let go. Where I love teachers are let go from time to time and sometimes with no reason. I served on our school board for many years and have seen both happen.

5) Quit your kind and move to a troubled school and help fix the problem.

6) union's are going away and that might be good I guess. However when they are gone and things don't change much then who will you blame?

How many people on this thread have done #5?

 

[Unkotare]

I've noticed a few things from this post that are trendy...

1) Not a one poster puts one iota of responsibility on the kids. In your minds they just show up and a good teacher will make them a genius. No effort required by the kid. It's 100 percent in the teacher in every case.

2) Teachers should ask for lower wages and should never get a raise....but every other worker is exempt from that standard.

3) Many see it as easy and overpaid yet they chose not to be a teacher. But if someone complains about a CEO heck they will defend his or her bloated salary.

4) Bad teachers in most states are let go when the principal seems it necessary. Good productive teachers are also let go. Where I love teachers are let go from time to time and sometimes with no reason. I served on our school board for many years and have seen both happen.

5) Quit your kind and move to a troubled school and help fix the problem.

6) union's are going away and that might be good I guess. However when they are gone and things don't change much then who will you blame?

Ok I'll look at these
1)The kids are responsible, but you cant force them to care, that takes parents and teachers.
2)good teachers should get raises, bad ones fired......it's not difficult
3)Who said it was easy? I have backed teachers to get the unions and adminstrators out of the classroom, so teachers are allowed to control their class and teach what is required.
4)Bad teachers are hard to get rid of, most go to the rubber room and still draw pay......no thanks
5)good point, but that's why we hire teachers and administrators.
6)when unions are gone, we'll blame the adminstrators, because it's their job to run the school. they will now have the power to hire/fire and promote/demote teachers based on merit, not some bs union seniority scheme.

Thank you for your input. I didn't post the original but I would like to address some points.

1) So why do most people put all the blame on the teachers?
2) How do you determine a bad teacher? That is the actual difficult part.
3) Controlling the classroom is often determined to be the sign of a bad teacher.
4) You are using per hyperbole. The "rubber rooms" were made famous by NYC. They do not exist hardly anywhere else in this country. Most teachers get suspended without pay.
5) I am glad you agree.
6) Where do you get the idea that teachers are promoted to anything? I started as a teacher and 20 years later I was still a teacher. Getting promoted to administration has nothing to do with unions as they do not represent administrators.

Good counter points

1) Because they are the ones paid to teach. Like I said unions are a huge problem because they have rules along with adminstrators, that took almost any power of a teacher to control a classroom or how to present material. Without unions, the hope is teachers will be able to run their class as they see fit, as long as they stick to the basic curriculum.
2)Well that's the standardized tests, as well as maybe interviewing students and their parents.
3)HUH??? I know you're being abstract, but I'm not getting it, so we must be thinking of 2 very different things. Mine is making them behave, so the atmosphere is conducive to learning.
4)If that's the case, then good. But NYC is a major area and it needs to be cleaned up.
5)we agree
6)Promotions, raises. I know most stay teachers, but if they have any new titles or governmentish promotion opportunities, then good, if not, also ok, but at least let good teachers get raises, even if they don't want a promotion.

1) You obviously have never taught anyone anything. Ever hear the expression that you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink? How do I teach a kid with their head down and asleep because they played video games all night?
2) How would you grade teachers that teach special education students and low performers? To everyone outside education it all looks so easy, until you know the truth, which you never bother to learn.
3) Keeping the students quiet while lecturing is viewed as ineffective by most administrators. I ran afoul of my administrators all the time because to teach math, you explain while they listen, work problems together and then let them work alone. If they were not math teachers, they wanted some goofy "project" or applied learning activity.
4) NYC is a gnat's ass compared to flyover country.
5) Done
6) Those pay raises, called step increases, we got sometime amounted to less than $100 a year. Now there is an incentive to go the extra mile! In my 20 year career, I never made as much money in a year as I did my last year of active duty in the Navy. That's sad! What you don't seem to understand is that most teachers are good, and trying to figure out which teacher would be deserving of a promotion just denigrates the whole process down into politics. That's why unions existed. My oldest two kids went to the school where I taught, and I had numerous run-ins with my own boss about my kids. Do you think he would not hold that against me for being a parent first and an employee second?

ok so how do you solve 1) ? Unions don't do it.
Kids don't give a crap about school, because they aren't interested in it. I gave you a stories about how just one social studies teacher got me interested in subjects, school is for the most part boring. Teachers need to make it interesting. But your scenario is useless because what can you do with that? Fail them? Hold them back? I'm for those, but not the unions and admins, because again they don't care about students and are worried about parents. They need to get some balls, you hold a kid back, his parents(unless they are useless addicts or similar) will make sure things get done. They have to see a consequence for inaction.
2) Just like one, you are using leftwing attacks with very special cases, like on abortion, what about rape and incest? Well those don't happen that often, I'm worried about MOST of the students, the others have programs and classes for that.
3)HUH? what are they expecting then? And again I said the teachers should have control, not the admins or unions.
4) Yes, but it's also a huge school district and many of the poor and low performing students you talk about come from large districts like NYC. You have to deal with them.
6)Ok, then we need to retool the pay structure, I'm not sure what the argument is here?

Plenty of kids give a crap about school.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Ok I'll look at these
1)The kids are responsible, but you cant force them to care, that takes parents and teachers.
2)good teachers should get raises, bad ones fired......it's not difficult
3)Who said it was easy? I have backed teachers to get the unions and adminstrators out of the classroom, so teachers are allowed to control their class and teach what is required.
4)Bad teachers are hard to get rid of, most go to the rubber room and still draw pay......no thanks
5)good point, but that's why we hire teachers and administrators.
6)when unions are gone, we'll blame the adminstrators, because it's their job to run the school. they will now have the power to hire/fire and promote/demote teachers based on merit, not some bs union seniority scheme.

Thank you for your input. I didn't post the original but I would like to address some points.

1) So why do most people put all the blame on the teachers?
2) How do you determine a bad teacher? That is the actual difficult part.
3) Controlling the classroom is often determined to be the sign of a bad teacher.
4) You are using per hyperbole. The "rubber rooms" were made famous by NYC. They do not exist hardly anywhere else in this country. Most teachers get suspended without pay.
5) I am glad you agree.
6) Where do you get the idea that teachers are promoted to anything? I started as a teacher and 20 years later I was still a teacher. Getting promoted to administration has nothing to do with unions as they do not represent administrators.

Good counter points

1) Because they are the ones paid to teach. Like I said unions are a huge problem because they have rules along with adminstrators, that took almost any power of a teacher to control a classroom or how to present material. Without unions, the hope is teachers will be able to run their class as they see fit, as long as they stick to the basic curriculum.
2)Well that's the standardized tests, as well as maybe interviewing students and their parents.
3)HUH??? I know you're being abstract, but I'm not getting it, so we must be thinking of 2 very different things. Mine is making them behave, so the atmosphere is conducive to learning.
4)If that's the case, then good. But NYC is a major area and it needs to be cleaned up.
5)we agree
6)Promotions, raises. I know most stay teachers, but if they have any new titles or governmentish promotion opportunities, then good, if not, also ok, but at least let good teachers get raises, even if they don't want a promotion.

1) You obviously have never taught anyone anything. Ever hear the expression that you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink? How do I teach a kid with their head down and asleep because they played video games all night?
2) How would you grade teachers that teach special education students and low performers? To everyone outside education it all looks so easy, until you know the truth, which you never bother to learn.
3) Keeping the students quiet while lecturing is viewed as ineffective by most administrators. I ran afoul of my administrators all the time because to teach math, you explain while they listen, work problems together and then let them work alone. If they were not math teachers, they wanted some goofy "project" or applied learning activity.
4) NYC is a gnat's ass compared to flyover country.
5) Done
6) Those pay raises, called step increases, we got sometime amounted to less than $100 a year. Now there is an incentive to go the extra mile! In my 20 year career, I never made as much money in a year as I did my last year of active duty in the Navy. That's sad! What you don't seem to understand is that most teachers are good, and trying to figure out which teacher would be deserving of a promotion just denigrates the whole process down into politics. That's why unions existed. My oldest two kids went to the school where I taught, and I had numerous run-ins with my own boss about my kids. Do you think he would not hold that against me for being a parent first and an employee second?

ok so how do you solve 1) ? Unions don't do it.
Kids don't give a crap about school, because they aren't interested in it. I gave you a stories about how just one social studies teacher got me interested in subjects, school is for the most part boring. Teachers need to make it interesting. But your scenario is useless because what can you do with that? Fail them? Hold them back? I'm for those, but not the unions and admins, because again they don't care about students and are worried about parents. They need to get some balls, you hold a kid back, his parents(unless they are useless addicts or similar) will make sure things get done. They have to see a consequence for inaction.
2) Just like one, you are using leftwing attacks with very special cases, like on abortion, what about rape and incest? Well those don't happen that often, I'm worried about MOST of the students, the others have programs and classes for that.
3)HUH? what are they expecting then? And again I said the teachers should have control, not the admins or unions.
4) Yes, but it's also a huge school district and many of the poor and low performing students you talk about come from large districts like NYC. You have to deal with them.
6)Ok, then we need to retool the pay structure, I'm not sure what the argument is here?

Plenty of kids give a crap about school.

yes and they usually do well.......the ones that don't do well, generally don't care.......

 

[sealybobo]

I've noticed a few things from this post that are trendy...

1) Not a one poster puts one iota of responsibility on the kids. In your minds they just show up and a good teacher will make them a genius. No effort required by the kid. It's 100 percent in the teacher in every case.

2) Teachers should ask for lower wages and should never get a raise....but every other worker is exempt from that standard.

3) Many see it as easy and overpaid yet they chose not to be a teacher. But if someone complains about a CEO heck they will defend his or her bloated salary.

4) Bad teachers in most states are let go when the principal seems it necessary. Good productive teachers are also let go. Where I love teachers are let go from time to time and sometimes with no reason. I served on our school board for many years and have seen both happen.

5) Quit your kind and move to a troubled school and help fix the problem.

6) union's are going away and that might be good I guess. However when they are gone and things don't change much then who will you blame?

How many people on this thread have done #5?

Just you but you didn't do it because you are noble. You did it because you couldn't get a job at a good school district. I'm sure you will lie to us and pretend it's because you are this great person but we all know that's a lie.

 

[Unkotare]

I've noticed a few things from this post that are trendy...

1) Not a one poster puts one iota of responsibility on the kids. In your minds they just show up and a good teacher will make them a genius. No effort required by the kid. It's 100 percent in the teacher in every case.

2) Teachers should ask for lower wages and should never get a raise....but every other worker is exempt from that standard.

3) Many see it as easy and overpaid yet they chose not to be a teacher. But if someone complains about a CEO heck they will defend his or her bloated salary.

4) Bad teachers in most states are let go when the principal seems it necessary. Good productive teachers are also let go. Where I love teachers are let go from time to time and sometimes with no reason. I served on our school board for many years and have seen both happen.

5) Quit your kind and move to a troubled school and help fix the problem.

6) union's are going away and that might be good I guess. However when they are gone and things don't change much then who will you blame?

How many people on this thread have done #5?

.... I'm sure you will lie to us and pretend it's because you are this great person but we all know that's a lie.

Go whisper that to your boat and see if it makes the guilt go away.

 

[Unkotare]

Thank you for your input. I didn't post the original but I would like to address some points.

1) So why do most people put all the blame on the teachers?
2) How do you determine a bad teacher? That is the actual difficult part.
3) Controlling the classroom is often determined to be the sign of a bad teacher.
4) You are using per hyperbole. The "rubber rooms" were made famous by NYC. They do not exist hardly anywhere else in this country. Most teachers get suspended without pay.
5) I am glad you agree.
6) Where do you get the idea that teachers are promoted to anything? I started as a teacher and 20 years later I was still a teacher. Getting promoted to administration has nothing to do with unions as they do not represent administrators.

Good counter points

1) Because they are the ones paid to teach. Like I said unions are a huge problem because they have rules along with adminstrators, that took almost any power of a teacher to control a classroom or how to present material. Without unions, the hope is teachers will be able to run their class as they see fit, as long as they stick to the basic curriculum.
2)Well that's the standardized tests, as well as maybe interviewing students and their parents.
3)HUH??? I know you're being abstract, but I'm not getting it, so we must be thinking of 2 very different things. Mine is making them behave, so the atmosphere is conducive to learning.
4)If that's the case, then good. But NYC is a major area and it needs to be cleaned up.
5)we agree
6)Promotions, raises. I know most stay teachers, but if they have any new titles or governmentish promotion opportunities, then good, if not, also ok, but at least let good teachers get raises, even if they don't want a promotion.

1) You obviously have never taught anyone anything. Ever hear the expression that you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink? How do I teach a kid with their head down and asleep because they played video games all night?
2) How would you grade teachers that teach special education students and low performers? To everyone outside education it all looks so easy, until you know the truth, which you never bother to learn.
3) Keeping the students quiet while lecturing is viewed as ineffective by most administrators. I ran afoul of my administrators all the time because to teach math, you explain while they listen, work problems together and then let them work alone. If they were not math teachers, they wanted some goofy "project" or applied learning activity.
4) NYC is a gnat's ass compared to flyover country.
5) Done
6) Those pay raises, called step increases, we got sometime amounted to less than $100 a year. Now there is an incentive to go the extra mile! In my 20 year career, I never made as much money in a year as I did my last year of active duty in the Navy. That's sad! What you don't seem to understand is that most teachers are good, and trying to figure out which teacher would be deserving of a promotion just denigrates the whole process down into politics. That's why unions existed. My oldest two kids went to the school where I taught, and I had numerous run-ins with my own boss about my kids. Do you think he would not hold that against me for being a parent first and an employee second?

ok so how do you solve 1) ? Unions don't do it.
Kids don't give a crap about school, because they aren't interested in it. I gave you a stories about how just one social studies teacher got me interested in subjects, school is for the most part boring. Teachers need to make it interesting. But your scenario is useless because what can you do with that? Fail them? Hold them back? I'm for those, but not the unions and admins, because again they don't care about students and are worried about parents. They need to get some balls, you hold a kid back, his parents(unless they are useless addicts or similar) will make sure things get done. They have to see a consequence for inaction.
2) Just like one, you are using leftwing attacks with very special cases, like on abortion, what about rape and incest? Well those don't happen that often, I'm worried about MOST of the students, the others have programs and classes for that.
3)HUH? what are they expecting then? And again I said the teachers should have control, not the admins or unions.
4) Yes, but it's also a huge school district and many of the poor and low performing students you talk about come from large districts like NYC. You have to deal with them.
6)Ok, then we need to retool the pay structure, I'm not sure what the argument is here?

Plenty of kids give a crap about school.

yes and they usually do well.......the ones that don't do well, generally don't care.......

And/or have no support at home.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Good counter points

1) Because they are the ones paid to teach. Like I said unions are a huge problem because they have rules along with adminstrators, that took almost any power of a teacher to control a classroom or how to present material. Without unions, the hope is teachers will be able to run their class as they see fit, as long as they stick to the basic curriculum.
2)Well that's the standardized tests, as well as maybe interviewing students and their parents.
3)HUH??? I know you're being abstract, but I'm not getting it, so we must be thinking of 2 very different things. Mine is making them behave, so the atmosphere is conducive to learning.
4)If that's the case, then good. But NYC is a major area and it needs to be cleaned up.
5)we agree
6)Promotions, raises. I know most stay teachers, but if they have any new titles or governmentish promotion opportunities, then good, if not, also ok, but at least let good teachers get raises, even if they don't want a promotion.

1) You obviously have never taught anyone anything. Ever hear the expression that you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink? How do I teach a kid with their head down and asleep because they played video games all night?
2) How would you grade teachers that teach special education students and low performers? To everyone outside education it all looks so easy, until you know the truth, which you never bother to learn.
3) Keeping the students quiet while lecturing is viewed as ineffective by most administrators. I ran afoul of my administrators all the time because to teach math, you explain while they listen, work problems together and then let them work alone. If they were not math teachers, they wanted some goofy "project" or applied learning activity.
4) NYC is a gnat's ass compared to flyover country.
5) Done
6) Those pay raises, called step increases, we got sometime amounted to less than $100 a year. Now there is an incentive to go the extra mile! In my 20 year career, I never made as much money in a year as I did my last year of active duty in the Navy. That's sad! What you don't seem to understand is that most teachers are good, and trying to figure out which teacher would be deserving of a promotion just denigrates the whole process down into politics. That's why unions existed. My oldest two kids went to the school where I taught, and I had numerous run-ins with my own boss about my kids. Do you think he would not hold that against me for being a parent first and an employee second?

ok so how do you solve 1) ? Unions don't do it.
Kids don't give a crap about school, because they aren't interested in it. I gave you a stories about how just one social studies teacher got me interested in subjects, school is for the most part boring. Teachers need to make it interesting. But your scenario is useless because what can you do with that? Fail them? Hold them back? I'm for those, but not the unions and admins, because again they don't care about students and are worried about parents. They need to get some balls, you hold a kid back, his parents(unless they are useless addicts or similar) will make sure things get done. They have to see a consequence for inaction.
2) Just like one, you are using leftwing attacks with very special cases, like on abortion, what about rape and incest? Well those don't happen that often, I'm worried about MOST of the students, the others have programs and classes for that.
3)HUH? what are they expecting then? And again I said the teachers should have control, not the admins or unions.
4) Yes, but it's also a huge school district and many of the poor and low performing students you talk about come from large districts like NYC. You have to deal with them.
6)Ok, then we need to retool the pay structure, I'm not sure what the argument is here?

Plenty of kids give a crap about school.

yes and they usually do well.......the ones that don't do well, generally don't care.......

And/or have no support at home.

I couldn't agree more. But the thread is what can we do? I cant force parents to give a shit about their kids...if they don't...not sure what you can do.

 

[sealybobo]

I've noticed a few things from this post that are trendy...

1) Not a one poster puts one iota of responsibility on the kids. In your minds they just show up and a good teacher will make them a genius. No effort required by the kid. It's 100 percent in the teacher in every case.

2) Teachers should ask for lower wages and should never get a raise....but every other worker is exempt from that standard.

3) Many see it as easy and overpaid yet they chose not to be a teacher. But if someone complains about a CEO heck they will defend his or her bloated salary.

4) Bad teachers in most states are let go when the principal seems it necessary. Good productive teachers are also let go. Where I love teachers are let go from time to time and sometimes with no reason. I served on our school board for many years and have seen both happen.

5) Quit your kind and move to a troubled school and help fix the problem.

6) union's are going away and that might be good I guess. However when they are gone and things don't change much then who will you blame?

How many people on this thread have done #5?

.... I'm sure you will lie to us and pretend it's because you are this great person but we all know that's a lie.

Go whisper that to your boat and see if it makes the guilt go away.

Every guy you see in this picture makes well over $100K and they all LOVED going out on my boat. I'm surprised a broke ass teacher like you isn't impressed with my brand new $25,500 boat I paid cash for. I know you could not afford such a thing right?

Actually I know you are impressed. I can sense the jealously when you make these little comments about my boat or my 25 year old girlfriend. It must really bother you that I'm so much more successful than you. Even though you went a lot further in college wrestling. Maybe you should have quit wrestling like I did and got a real degree and then a real job.

The only thing I'm jealous of is that you get summers off but turns out you have to work all summer to supplement your lack of income. LOL. So I get it that you tell yourself that you work in a poor school district for noble reasons but the truth is, you make less than the teachers who work in the nicer schools.