Immigrants From Banned Nations: Educated, Mostly Citizens and Found in Every State

[Tilly]

False premise of why more vetting on immigrants from the list is needed.

What false premise?

The false premise that that the far left always runs that is not connected to reality!

You far left drones cheer and support violence like what ISIS does. So since the far left is a dangerous religion, show we ban all far left drones from the US?

No, the false premise is that these immigrants threaten the safety of the US. None of the 911 terrorists came from ANY of these countries.




Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

The 9/11 terrorists weren't the only terrorists.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

People need to look at the big picture. There is Islamic terrorism occurring on a global scale, and the terrorists come from a great many countries. They aren't all downtrodden disenfranchised poor people. Many of them are well educated and many of them are professionals.
It's utterly absurd to keep whining about improving vetting and keeping Americans as safe as possible. But then we all know that's not really what this is about.

Yeah...all one needs to do is look at Europe's current problems.....no thanks

 

[saveliberty]

Probably should vet cats on USMB more...

 

[j-mac]

An informative read...some facts that don't fit the rampant stereotyping of immigrants and refugees coming over to the US. Given their rates of citizenship, and the fact that far more served in the army than committed terrorist acts, it's hard to make the argument that they "hate America", "hate western values" and "want to destroy us".

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/30/us/politics/trump-immigration-ban-demographics.html

Many have college degrees
As a whole, residents from the seven predominantly Muslim countries, especially Iranians and the small group of Libyans, are better educated than the rest of America. People from Syria and Sudan also tend to be better educated than the national average.

Some have prospered
Residents from Iran, Syria and Libya, who are more likely than the population as a whole to be managers, engineers and teachers, make close to or above the median income for the entire American population.

Somalis and Sudanese are overrepresented in blue-collar jobs in manufacturing and transportation, and make less. The median income of Somalis is less than half the United States average.

Iraqis, Somalis, and Sudanese are more recent arrivals:
The pattern is roughly commensurate with how long immigrant communities have been in the United States, with nearly half of Iranians moving there before 1990. Nearly two-thirds of Iraqis, Somalis and Sudanese have arrived since 2000.

Most Are Now Citizens
Most United States residents from these seven countries have become citizens, a rate higher than that of the foreign-born population in the country as a whole. A small number, about 10,000, have served in the American military.


Three Were Involved in Attacks
Of the more than 856,000 immigrants, visa holders and green-card holders originally from the countries affected by the ban, just three are known to have carried out violent attacks inside the United States since Sept. 11, 2001, according to David Sterman, an analyst at the New America think tank who maintains a database of terrorist attacks in the United States.

...Since Sept. 11, 2001, a vast majority of the perpetrators of terrorist attacks came from countries not listed in the ban, and many were born in the United States.

Just a question Coyote...Or a hypothetical if you will...Let's say a 20 yr old Somali refugee, goes off to Yemen for 2 months, and shows up at customs at La Guardia airport coming back home...Shouldn't he get some extra scrutiny? Aren't you curious as to why, and or what the hell he was over in Yemen for?

I am.

 

[Coyote]

If I was writing the OP, I'd have taken this approach.

Sure hope we can quickly find a better vetting system and return to allowing law abiding Muslims into the country. They seem to have good educations and have found a place in our nation.

Suggesting they are just all wonderful belies what some have done. Making excuses doesn't really help either.

I've said this before and I'll say it again.

I support strong vetting on all those coming from those countries. I also support a constant review of policies and procedures to make sure we are addressing current concerns and to see where we have room for improvement.

Can we agree on that?

Where I disagree with, and why I can't frame it the way you suggest (which is good btw) is that I don't feel we necessarily need a "better vetting system" as such (to the extent that all travel must be halted) so much as we need to be open to constant improvement. I've listened to and read a number of interviews with people involved in vetting and they all feel that (in regards to refugees) - it IS very extreme already. None can think of specific things to do differently. The only thing that was mentioned, and that by Trump and his associates (none of whom talked with folks doing the vetting) was some kind of ideological/religious based questioning. That kind of approach is of dubious value since having a Quran in your suitcase doesn't mean you are an extremist or feeling that being gay is an abomination doesn't mean you are going to go out and start chucking them off the roof.

My purpose in the OP was two:
- the ban that the EO attempted was badly thought out, with no consultation or advise from any of the agencies or people actually involved in vetting. It was an ideologically spawned EO, not a fact based one. Would it have been asking to much to have put a little more thought into the crafting of it first?

- it has fed and encouraged what I see as a rabid attack on all immigrants and refugees from those area that does not seem to be related to what is really out there in our immigrant communities, as our OP points out. Many seem to be integrating well, have skills that we need, and are eager to become American citizens. How does that jive with the claim that they "hate America" and "hate American values"?

 

[Coyote]

Probably should vet cats on USMB more...

At least those who eat cheetos...something wrong there...

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

An informative read...some facts that don't fit the rampant stereotyping of immigrants and refugees coming over to the US. Given their rates of citizenship, and the fact that far more served in the army than committed terrorist acts, it's hard to make the argument that they "hate America", "hate western values" and "want to destroy us".

Stop making sense. The head of the average Trump Tard can only take so much.

 

[saveliberty]

Just a question Coyote...Or a hypothetical if you will...Let's say a 20 yr old Somali refugee, goes off to Yemen for 2 months, and shows up at customs at La Guardia airport coming back home...Shouldn't he get some extra scrutiny? Aren't you curious as to why, and or what the hell he was over in Yemen for?

I am.

Vetting should include a detailed list of people they interacted with that can be verified through communication. Job references, if they were there to work. Access to emails and internet use.

 

[Coyote]

An informative read...some facts that don't fit the rampant stereotyping of immigrants and refugees coming over to the US. Given their rates of citizenship, and the fact that far more served in the army than committed terrorist acts, it's hard to make the argument that they "hate America", "hate western values" and "want to destroy us".

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/30/us/politics/trump-immigration-ban-demographics.html

Many have college degrees
As a whole, residents from the seven predominantly Muslim countries, especially Iranians and the small group of Libyans, are better educated than the rest of America. People from Syria and Sudan also tend to be better educated than the national average.

Some have prospered
Residents from Iran, Syria and Libya, who are more likely than the population as a whole to be managers, engineers and teachers, make close to or above the median income for the entire American population.

Somalis and Sudanese are overrepresented in blue-collar jobs in manufacturing and transportation, and make less. The median income of Somalis is less than half the United States average.

Iraqis, Somalis, and Sudanese are more recent arrivals:
The pattern is roughly commensurate with how long immigrant communities have been in the United States, with nearly half of Iranians moving there before 1990. Nearly two-thirds of Iraqis, Somalis and Sudanese have arrived since 2000.

Most Are Now Citizens
Most United States residents from these seven countries have become citizens, a rate higher than that of the foreign-born population in the country as a whole. A small number, about 10,000, have served in the American military.


Three Were Involved in Attacks
Of the more than 856,000 immigrants, visa holders and green-card holders originally from the countries affected by the ban, just three are known to have carried out violent attacks inside the United States since Sept. 11, 2001, according to David Sterman, an analyst at the New America think tank who maintains a database of terrorist attacks in the United States.

...Since Sept. 11, 2001, a vast majority of the perpetrators of terrorist attacks came from countries not listed in the ban, and many were born in the United States.

Just a question Coyote...Or a hypothetical if you will...Let's say a 20 yr old Somali refugee, goes off to Yemen for 2 months, and shows up at customs at La Guardia airport coming back home...Shouldn't he get some extra scrutiny? Aren't you curious as to why, and or what the hell he was over in Yemen for?

I am.

Yes he should. I would agree with that.

 

[saveliberty]

Probably should vet cats on USMB more...

At least those who eat cheetos...something wrong there...

Hey, I just lick the cheese off.

 

[Coyote]

Just a question Coyote...Or a hypothetical if you will...Let's say a 20 yr old Somali refugee, goes off to Yemen for 2 months, and shows up at customs at La Guardia airport coming back home...Shouldn't he get some extra scrutiny? Aren't you curious as to why, and or what the hell he was over in Yemen for?

I am.

Vetting should include a detailed list of people they interacted with that can be verified through communication. Job references, if they were there to work. Access to emails and internet use.

That is what is already done - access to cell phones, social media, etc. Additionally, over the course of several years they are interviewed multiple times with people trained to spot any discrepencies. If they just "can't tell" - that applicant gets rejected. No one WANTS to let in someone who is dangerous.

 

[Coyote]

Probably should vet cats on USMB more...

At least those who eat cheetos...something wrong there...

Hey, I just lick the cheese off.

Sure...that's what they all say....

 

[j-mac]

An informative read...some facts that don't fit the rampant stereotyping of immigrants and refugees coming over to the US. Given their rates of citizenship, and the fact that far more served in the army than committed terrorist acts, it's hard to make the argument that they "hate America", "hate western values" and "want to destroy us".

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/30/us/politics/trump-immigration-ban-demographics.html

Many have college degrees
As a whole, residents from the seven predominantly Muslim countries, especially Iranians and the small group of Libyans, are better educated than the rest of America. People from Syria and Sudan also tend to be better educated than the national average.

Some have prospered
Residents from Iran, Syria and Libya, who are more likely than the population as a whole to be managers, engineers and teachers, make close to or above the median income for the entire American population.

Somalis and Sudanese are overrepresented in blue-collar jobs in manufacturing and transportation, and make less. The median income of Somalis is less than half the United States average.

Iraqis, Somalis, and Sudanese are more recent arrivals:
The pattern is roughly commensurate with how long immigrant communities have been in the United States, with nearly half of Iranians moving there before 1990. Nearly two-thirds of Iraqis, Somalis and Sudanese have arrived since 2000.

Most Are Now Citizens
Most United States residents from these seven countries have become citizens, a rate higher than that of the foreign-born population in the country as a whole. A small number, about 10,000, have served in the American military.


Three Were Involved in Attacks
Of the more than 856,000 immigrants, visa holders and green-card holders originally from the countries affected by the ban, just three are known to have carried out violent attacks inside the United States since Sept. 11, 2001, according to David Sterman, an analyst at the New America think tank who maintains a database of terrorist attacks in the United States.

...Since Sept. 11, 2001, a vast majority of the perpetrators of terrorist attacks came from countries not listed in the ban, and many were born in the United States.

Just a question Coyote...Or a hypothetical if you will...Let's say a 20 yr old Somali refugee, goes off to Yemen for 2 months, and shows up at customs at La Guardia airport coming back home...Shouldn't he get some extra scrutiny? Aren't you curious as to why, and or what the hell he was over in Yemen for?

I am.

Yes he should. I would agree with that.

Amazingly the articles author paper, or the think tank they cited for their basis, does not.

 

[saveliberty]

That is what is already done - access to cell phones, social media, etc. Additionally, over the course of several years they are interviewed multiple times with people trained to spot any discrepencies. If they just "can't tell" - that applicant gets rejected. No one WANTS to let in someone who is dangerous.

Exactly, so if we can improve that system it is a good thing. A pause is prudent, although I would be against it lasting very long. Unfortunately, the legal actions are doing nothing, but delaying work on the project.

 

[j-mac]

Just a question Coyote...Or a hypothetical if you will...Let's say a 20 yr old Somali refugee, goes off to Yemen for 2 months, and shows up at customs at La Guardia airport coming back home...Shouldn't he get some extra scrutiny? Aren't you curious as to why, and or what the hell he was over in Yemen for?

I am.

Vetting should include a detailed list of people they interacted with that can be verified through communication. Job references, if they were there to work. Access to emails and internet use.

That is what is already done - access to cell phones, social media, etc. Additionally, over the course of several years they are interviewed multiple times with people trained to spot any discrepencies. If they just "can't tell" - that applicant gets rejected. No one WANTS to let in someone who is dangerous.

So, you're saying that a green card holder, or current visa holder coming into the US has to wait even if they already have the requisite papers? I don't think they do, and that is why I brought up my scenerio, and why the President wanted to pause to check procedures....Why is that wrong?

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Probably should vet cats on USMB more...

At least those who eat cheetos...something wrong there...

Hey, I just lick the cheese off.

"Hey, I just lick the cheese off."

I fully support this, but it would depend, Brie de Meaux or Roquefort or Fourme de Montbrison yes but Trou du Cru no chance because it literally absolutely stinks to high heaven, you could smell Trou du Cru from the room next door it stinks that much.

 

[saveliberty]

Probably should vet cats on USMB more...

At least those who eat cheetos...something wrong there...

Hey, I just lick the cheese off.

"Hey, I just lick the cheese off."

I fully support this, but it would depend, Brie de Meaux or Roquefort or Fourme de Montbrison yes but Trou du Cru no chance because it literally absolutely stinks to high heaven, you could smell Trou du Cru from the room next door it stinks that much.

We're talking Cheetos here.

 

[Coyote]

False premise of why more vetting on immigrants from the list is needed.

What false premise?

Are you trying to tell us that none of the well educated Muslim immigrants on this list which runs 3 pages long came from any of the countries on Trump's ban list? If you are, you're mistaken.

"Misunderstanders" Roster

That's not much of a list when you consider that since 9/11 we've had 865,000 immigrants and this list goes back more than 30 years. The list claims to be "participants in jihad and adherents to Shari'ah law" (which...makes me wonder how they would know if they were "adherents to Sharia law" or they just throw that in there to frighten people). Some seem to be for incredibly minor things (like making false statements) and many have broken links.

 

[Coyote]

Probably should vet cats on USMB more...

At least those who eat cheetos...something wrong there...

Hey, I just lick the cheese off.

"Hey, I just lick the cheese off."

I fully support this, but it would depend, Brie de Meaux or Roquefort or Fourme de Montbrison yes but Trou du Cru no chance because it literally absolutely stinks to high heaven, you could smell Trou du Cru from the room next door it stinks that much.

Brie...lord no stinky cheese please.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

An informative read...some facts that don't fit the rampant stereotyping of immigrants and refugees coming over to the US. Given their rates of citizenship, and the fact that far more served in the army than committed terrorist acts, it's hard to make the argument that they "hate America", "hate western values" and "want to destroy us".

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/30/us/politics/trump-immigration-ban-demographics.html

Many have college degrees
As a whole, residents from the seven predominantly Muslim countries, especially Iranians and the small group of Libyans, are better educated than the rest of America. People from Syria and Sudan also tend to be better educated than the national average.

Some have prospered
Residents from Iran, Syria and Libya, who are more likely than the population as a whole to be managers, engineers and teachers, make close to or above the median income for the entire American population.

Somalis and Sudanese are overrepresented in blue-collar jobs in manufacturing and transportation, and make less. The median income of Somalis is less than half the United States average.

Iraqis, Somalis, and Sudanese are more recent arrivals:
The pattern is roughly commensurate with how long immigrant communities have been in the United States, with nearly half of Iranians moving there before 1990. Nearly two-thirds of Iraqis, Somalis and Sudanese have arrived since 2000.

Most Are Now Citizens
Most United States residents from these seven countries have become citizens, a rate higher than that of the foreign-born population in the country as a whole. A small number, about 10,000, have served in the American military.


Three Were Involved in Attacks
Of the more than 856,000 immigrants, visa holders and green-card holders originally from the countries affected by the ban, just three are known to have carried out violent attacks inside the United States since Sept. 11, 2001, according to David Sterman, an analyst at the New America think tank who maintains a database of terrorist attacks in the United States.

...Since Sept. 11, 2001, a vast majority of the perpetrators of terrorist attacks came from countries not listed in the ban, and many were born in the United States.

Huh? I thought this was a thread about cheese? saveliberty has a lot to answer for, this is his fault

Where is that kitty