Immigrants From Banned Nations: Educated, Mostly Citizens and Found in Every State

[j-mac]

The article is not arguing that. It's stating that they don't need to be BANNED.

That is exactly what the NYTimes is arguing...Now they aren't so foolish as to come right out and say it in plain language, but if you think for a second that their objective isn't to soften image of those under prospective halt to immigration then you are fooling yourself respectfully.

It is not saying "we should just ignore the threat from those countries" at all.

No, you're right...Instead it is more insidious...It argues by painting people from those countries trying to get here as just highly educated doctors, and engineers....I call BS...What's even worse is that they cite a radically left wing think tank for evidence to bolster their conclusion....

Are you talking about all travelers from those countries? Those countries are on DHS' list of special concern, they are exempt from the VISA waiver program, and travelers do recieve additional scrutiny. But the levels of scrutiny probably depend on the types of visas involved. Only refugees admitted under our refugee program get the most extreme level of vetting that can take years, and that would include Libyan and Yemeni refugees.

Ok, if you are sure of that, then it should be easy for you to show me proof of how people from Yemen, or Libya are vetted.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

An informative read...some facts that don't fit the rampant stereotyping of immigrants and refugees coming over to the US. Given their rates of citizenship, and the fact that far more served in the army than committed terrorist acts, it's hard to make the argument that they "hate America", "hate western values" and "want to destroy us".

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/30/us/politics/trump-immigration-ban-demographics.html

Many have college degrees
As a whole, residents from the seven predominantly Muslim countries, especially Iranians and the small group of Libyans, are better educated than the rest of America. People from Syria and Sudan also tend to be better educated than the national average.

Some have prospered
Residents from Iran, Syria and Libya, who are more likely than the population as a whole to be managers, engineers and teachers, make close to or above the median income for the entire American population.

Somalis and Sudanese are overrepresented in blue-collar jobs in manufacturing and transportation, and make less. The median income of Somalis is less than half the United States average.

Iraqis, Somalis, and Sudanese are more recent arrivals:
The pattern is roughly commensurate with how long immigrant communities have been in the United States, with nearly half of Iranians moving there before 1990. Nearly two-thirds of Iraqis, Somalis and Sudanese have arrived since 2000.

Most Are Now Citizens
Most United States residents from these seven countries have become citizens, a rate higher than that of the foreign-born population in the country as a whole. A small number, about 10,000, have served in the American military.


Three Were Involved in Attacks
Of the more than 856,000 immigrants, visa holders and green-card holders originally from the countries affected by the ban, just three are known to have carried out violent attacks inside the United States since Sept. 11, 2001, according to David Sterman, an analyst at the New America think tank who maintains a database of terrorist attacks in the United States.

...Since Sept. 11, 2001, a vast majority of the perpetrators of terrorist attacks came from countries not listed in the ban, and many were born in the United States.

It's increasingly difficult for Europeans of Christian religion to emigrate to either America or Canada and that's even if they have a University degree, yet Muslims from EVERYWHERE on this planet are just now waved in and the Leftist's and the International Globalists literally crap themselves and throw MEGA tantrums if Muslims from EVERYWHERE are not just waved in.

Seems like there's an Agenda, well, we who are Red Pilled know that there's an Agenda.

More and more people each day are now choosing The Red Pill and it's a great thing to behold knowing this.

Come on Coyote, within the next year you'll have to decide which pill you want to take, do you want to stay with the Blue Pill or will you take the Red Pill and wake up to reality?

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

An informative read...some facts that don't fit the rampant stereotyping of immigrants and refugees coming over to the US. Given their rates of citizenship, and the fact that far more served in the army than committed terrorist acts, it's hard to make the argument that they "hate America", "hate western values" and "want to destroy us".

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/30/us/politics/trump-immigration-ban-demographics.html

Many have college degrees
As a whole, residents from the seven predominantly Muslim countries, especially Iranians and the small group of Libyans, are better educated than the rest of America. People from Syria and Sudan also tend to be better educated than the national average.

Some have prospered
Residents from Iran, Syria and Libya, who are more likely than the population as a whole to be managers, engineers and teachers, make close to or above the median income for the entire American population.

Somalis and Sudanese are overrepresented in blue-collar jobs in manufacturing and transportation, and make less. The median income of Somalis is less than half the United States average.

Iraqis, Somalis, and Sudanese are more recent arrivals:
The pattern is roughly commensurate with how long immigrant communities have been in the United States, with nearly half of Iranians moving there before 1990. Nearly two-thirds of Iraqis, Somalis and Sudanese have arrived since 2000.

Most Are Now Citizens
Most United States residents from these seven countries have become citizens, a rate higher than that of the foreign-born population in the country as a whole. A small number, about 10,000, have served in the American military.


Three Were Involved in Attacks
Of the more than 856,000 immigrants, visa holders and green-card holders originally from the countries affected by the ban, just three are known to have carried out violent attacks inside the United States since Sept. 11, 2001, according to David Sterman, an analyst at the New America think tank who maintains a database of terrorist attacks in the United States.

...Since Sept. 11, 2001, a vast majority of the perpetrators of terrorist attacks came from countries not listed in the ban, and many were born in the United States.

Your premise that most Islamic Terrorists are not educated and do not have degrees is incredibly silly.

You seem to think that all Islamic Terrorists are sand people who suddenly emerge from their caves and decide to become Islamic Terrorists and then either blow themselves up or crash aeroplanes into tall buildings

 

[Coyote]

Just a question Coyote...Or a hypothetical if you will...Let's say a 20 yr old Somali refugee, goes off to Yemen for 2 months, and shows up at customs at La Guardia airport coming back home...Shouldn't he get some extra scrutiny? Aren't you curious as to why, and or what the hell he was over in Yemen for?

I am.

Vetting should include a detailed list of people they interacted with that can be verified through communication. Job references, if they were there to work. Access to emails and internet use.

That is what is already done - access to cell phones, social media, etc. Additionally, over the course of several years they are interviewed multiple times with people trained to spot any discrepencies. If they just "can't tell" - that applicant gets rejected. No one WANTS to let in someone who is dangerous.

So, you're saying that a green card holder, or current visa holder coming into the US has to wait even if they already have the requisite papers? I don't think they do, and that is why I brought up my scenerio, and why the President wanted to pause to check procedures....Why is that wrong?

Why is it wrong? Because we already have a system in place to provide extra scrutiny to travelers from certain countries. They may not have to wait or they may indeed have to wait and they can be subject to additional interviews and checks when they arrive.

How Trump's travel ban affects green card holders and dual citizens - CNNPolitics.com
The Obama administration's travel restriction provided extra scrutiny to people who traveled to these seven countries -- Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Syria, Somalia, Libya and Yemen -- because they are hotbeds for foreign fighters. It did not specifically ban people from entering the US just because they were citizens from these seven countries. All were still eligible to apply and get interviewed, they just could not utilize the visa waiver program. It was not a complete ban.

In addition, traveling from certain countries can get you flagged or extra scrutiny from DHS: DHS Announces Further Travel Restrictions for the Visa Waiver Program | Homeland Security

So it is not as if the country has been standing still on this. If Trump's administration had taken the time to meet with and discuss these issues with DHS, State Department, etc - he would have realized this.

Well, first I'll answer your question...It is the President's pervue to ensure that the most that is possible is being done in the interest of the United States security. So, as 8USC1182 (f) outlines he can for whatever reason, or length of time halt immigration with a simple proclamation...Until which time that HE is satisfied that it is safe to resume...

Now, please answer my question...How do you suppose we vet anyone from countries, failed states like Yemen, or Libya that have NO effectual governments in place?

I have been repeatedly answering your questions. You are now throwing a new question into the mix and acting as if I am not answering your questions.

It's a bit of a fallacy to think you NEED an effectual government in place to vet or that having one in place makes for better vetting. It all depends on that government and it's relation to the citizenry. I can't find the source, but on the news I was listening to a week ago they talked about how some of the vetting occurred. Multiple, lengthy interviews over a period of months and years designed ot weed out any descrepencies. The people conducting the interviews have a lot of local and historical knowledge - for example they know what terrorist groups and militias were in an area during a certain time.

In fact, despite what people seem to think - very few refugees pass this vetting:

A fraction of people who seek refugee status in the U.S. are approved. Less than one-fourth of 1 percent of refugees on the planet are approved to come here. Leon Rodriguez, former head of Department of Homeland Security's Citizenship and Immigration Services, the federal agency that vets refugees, says agents already do "extreme vetting."​

Trump Administration Considers Ways To Up Vetting Of Refugees

AMOS: Well, he tells me that it's already extreme. It includes extensive face-to-face interviews, five-six hours. And this is to determine credibility. If your story differs in the slightest detail, you can be denied. There are document checks, school records, marriage, birth certificates. The data is checked with nine law enforcement, intelligence and security agencies. There's a criminal background check, iris scan, DNA, fingerprints. There's a health check for communicable diseases. Here is Zach Zubair. He's a Syrian. He was resettled in Durham, N.C., six years ago. He was tortured in a Syrian prison. He says he remembers every single step at the U.S. embassy.


ZACH ZUBAIR: Definitely, they push hard. They try to find way not to accept people in general. They ask you all detail about your cases. They will ask you about all evidence that you have to support you cases. It's really tough.


AMOS: That's Zach Zubair. Now, Syrians, Iraqis and Iranian refugees are the most documented because there's extra security steps in their vetting.​

Remember this?:

"With the U.S. and other countries on high alert for ISIS attacks, American authorities are warning the terror group’s followers may have infiltrated American borders with authentic-looking passports ISIS has printed itself with its own machines, according to an intelligence report obtained by ABC News.

The 17-page Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) Intelligence Report, issued to law enforcement last week, says ISIS likely has been able to print legitimate-looking Syrian passports since taking over the city of Deir ez-Zour last summer, home to a passport office with “boxes of blank passports” and a passport printing machine. Another passport office was located in Raqqa, Syria, which has long been ISIS’s de facto capital.

“Since more than 17 months [have] passed since Raqqa and Deir ez-Zour fell to ISIS, it is possible that individuals from Syria with passports ‘issued’ in these ISIS controlled cities or who had passport blanks, may have traveled to the U.S.,” the report says."

ISIS May Have Passport Printing Machine, Blank Passports

So they get extra scrutiny.

 

[saveliberty]

The terrorists who ran planes into the world trade center also had degrees.

Where did they come from ?

The airport, did you not understand that?

 

[Coyote]

An informative read...some facts that don't fit the rampant stereotyping of immigrants and refugees coming over to the US. Given their rates of citizenship, and the fact that far more served in the army than committed terrorist acts, it's hard to make the argument that they "hate America", "hate western values" and "want to destroy us".

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/30/us/politics/trump-immigration-ban-demographics.html

Many have college degrees
As a whole, residents from the seven predominantly Muslim countries, especially Iranians and the small group of Libyans, are better educated than the rest of America. People from Syria and Sudan also tend to be better educated than the national average.

Some have prospered
Residents from Iran, Syria and Libya, who are more likely than the population as a whole to be managers, engineers and teachers, make close to or above the median income for the entire American population.

Somalis and Sudanese are overrepresented in blue-collar jobs in manufacturing and transportation, and make less. The median income of Somalis is less than half the United States average.

Iraqis, Somalis, and Sudanese are more recent arrivals:
The pattern is roughly commensurate with how long immigrant communities have been in the United States, with nearly half of Iranians moving there before 1990. Nearly two-thirds of Iraqis, Somalis and Sudanese have arrived since 2000.

Most Are Now Citizens
Most United States residents from these seven countries have become citizens, a rate higher than that of the foreign-born population in the country as a whole. A small number, about 10,000, have served in the American military.


Three Were Involved in Attacks
Of the more than 856,000 immigrants, visa holders and green-card holders originally from the countries affected by the ban, just three are known to have carried out violent attacks inside the United States since Sept. 11, 2001, according to David Sterman, an analyst at the New America think tank who maintains a database of terrorist attacks in the United States.

...Since Sept. 11, 2001, a vast majority of the perpetrators of terrorist attacks came from countries not listed in the ban, and many were born in the United States.

It's increasingly difficult for Europeans of Christian religion to emigrate to either America or Canada and that's even if they have a University degree, yet Muslims from EVERYWHERE on this planet are just now waved in and the Leftist's and the International Globalists literally crap themselves and throw MEGA tantrums if Muslims from EVERYWHERE are not just waved in.

Seems like there's an Agenda, well, we who are Red Pilled know that there's an Agenda.

More and more people each day are now choosing The Red Pill and it's a great thing to behold knowing this.

Come on Coyote, within the next year you'll have to decide which pill you want to take, do you want to stay with the Blue Pill or will you take the Red Pill and wake up to reality?

That's actually not true. For example, what countries provide the largest number of immigrants?

China
Nigeria
India
Brazil
Bangladesh
Mexico
Phillippines

Where I work, we hire internationally, we have a number of European faculty and have never had trouble getting them here. We also tend to get a number of Middle Eastern (most notably Iranian) graduate students and it's much more of a struggle to get them a passport.

I don't think it's at all harder for Christians to immigrate here (the list of countries would indicate that) - I think that not many Europeans (western Europeans) want to or need to immigrate to the US.

 

[j-mac]

Vetting should include a detailed list of people they interacted with that can be verified through communication. Job references, if they were there to work. Access to emails and internet use.

That is what is already done - access to cell phones, social media, etc. Additionally, over the course of several years they are interviewed multiple times with people trained to spot any discrepencies. If they just "can't tell" - that applicant gets rejected. No one WANTS to let in someone who is dangerous.

So, you're saying that a green card holder, or current visa holder coming into the US has to wait even if they already have the requisite papers? I don't think they do, and that is why I brought up my scenerio, and why the President wanted to pause to check procedures....Why is that wrong?

Why is it wrong? Because we already have a system in place to provide extra scrutiny to travelers from certain countries. They may not have to wait or they may indeed have to wait and they can be subject to additional interviews and checks when they arrive.

How Trump's travel ban affects green card holders and dual citizens - CNNPolitics.com
The Obama administration's travel restriction provided extra scrutiny to people who traveled to these seven countries -- Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Syria, Somalia, Libya and Yemen -- because they are hotbeds for foreign fighters. It did not specifically ban people from entering the US just because they were citizens from these seven countries. All were still eligible to apply and get interviewed, they just could not utilize the visa waiver program. It was not a complete ban.

In addition, traveling from certain countries can get you flagged or extra scrutiny from DHS: DHS Announces Further Travel Restrictions for the Visa Waiver Program | Homeland Security

So it is not as if the country has been standing still on this. If Trump's administration had taken the time to meet with and discuss these issues with DHS, State Department, etc - he would have realized this.

Well, first I'll answer your question...It is the President's pervue to ensure that the most that is possible is being done in the interest of the United States security. So, as 8USC1182 (f) outlines he can for whatever reason, or length of time halt immigration with a simple proclamation...Until which time that HE is satisfied that it is safe to resume...

Now, please answer my question...How do you suppose we vet anyone from countries, failed states like Yemen, or Libya that have NO effectual governments in place?

I have been repeatedly answering your questions. You are now throwing a new question into the mix and acting as if I am not answering your questions.

It's a bit of a fallacy to think you NEED an effectual government in place to vet or that having one in place makes for better vetting. It all depends on that government and it's relation to the citizenry. I can't find the source, but on the news I was listening to a week ago they talked about how some of the vetting occurred. Multiple, lengthy interviews over a period of months and years designed ot weed out any descrepencies. The people conducting the interviews have a lot of local and historical knowledge - for example they know what terrorist groups and militias were in an area during a certain time.

In fact, despite what people seem to think - very few refugees pass this vetting:

A fraction of people who seek refugee status in the U.S. are approved. Less than one-fourth of 1 percent of refugees on the planet are approved to come here. Leon Rodriguez, former head of Department of Homeland Security's Citizenship and Immigration Services, the federal agency that vets refugees, says agents already do "extreme vetting."​

Trump Administration Considers Ways To Up Vetting Of Refugees

AMOS: Well, he tells me that it's already extreme. It includes extensive face-to-face interviews, five-six hours. And this is to determine credibility. If your story differs in the slightest detail, you can be denied. There are document checks, school records, marriage, birth certificates. The data is checked with nine law enforcement, intelligence and security agencies. There's a criminal background check, iris scan, DNA, fingerprints. There's a health check for communicable diseases. Here is Zach Zubair. He's a Syrian. He was resettled in Durham, N.C., six years ago. He was tortured in a Syrian prison. He says he remembers every single step at the U.S. embassy.


ZACH ZUBAIR: Definitely, they push hard. They try to find way not to accept people in general. They ask you all detail about your cases. They will ask you about all evidence that you have to support you cases. It's really tough.


AMOS: That's Zach Zubair. Now, Syrians, Iraqis and Iranian refugees are the most documented because there's extra security steps in their vetting.​

Remember this?:

"With the U.S. and other countries on high alert for ISIS attacks, American authorities are warning the terror group’s followers may have infiltrated American borders with authentic-looking passports ISIS has printed itself with its own machines, according to an intelligence report obtained by ABC News.

The 17-page Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) Intelligence Report, issued to law enforcement last week, says ISIS likely has been able to print legitimate-looking Syrian passports since taking over the city of Deir ez-Zour last summer, home to a passport office with “boxes of blank passports” and a passport printing machine. Another passport office was located in Raqqa, Syria, which has long been ISIS’s de facto capital.

“Since more than 17 months [have] passed since Raqqa and Deir ez-Zour fell to ISIS, it is possible that individuals from Syria with passports ‘issued’ in these ISIS controlled cities or who had passport blanks, may have traveled to the U.S.,” the report says."

ISIS May Have Passport Printing Machine, Blank Passports

So they get extra scrutiny.

I don't mean to be treating you as though you aren't answering any questions, sorry if that is how its coming off...But you and I simply disagree...See, I don't think it is possible in a time of war, which is what this is, to allow people into this country from an enemy territory, or known area where it is more likely that people will lie to get here than not...

We need not get complacent in whom we allow in using arguments like X/X% only gets in...Because when you talking like that it makes you sound like you have forgotten that it was a mere 19 people with an agenda that caused the worst attack on American soil in history...Out of the thousands we let in I am sure that is a fraction of that also...

Now, we need to understand our enemy...They are NOT as technologically advanced, nor do they have large standing armies like we do, so they will lie, they will fight dirty, and they don't have to be the poor, or disadvantaged in their home country's either...We need to smarten up....This is going to get a lot worse.

 

[saveliberty]

Combatants don't have borders in this war, which is why better and more complete vetting makes perfect sense. There does seem to be training nations and those happen to be the basis of the current Trump list.

 

[Coyote]

An informative read...some facts that don't fit the rampant stereotyping of immigrants and refugees coming over to the US. Given their rates of citizenship, and the fact that far more served in the army than committed terrorist acts, it's hard to make the argument that they "hate America", "hate western values" and "want to destroy us".

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/30/us/politics/trump-immigration-ban-demographics.html

Many have college degrees
As a whole, residents from the seven predominantly Muslim countries, especially Iranians and the small group of Libyans, are better educated than the rest of America. People from Syria and Sudan also tend to be better educated than the national average.

Some have prospered
Residents from Iran, Syria and Libya, who are more likely than the population as a whole to be managers, engineers and teachers, make close to or above the median income for the entire American population.

Somalis and Sudanese are overrepresented in blue-collar jobs in manufacturing and transportation, and make less. The median income of Somalis is less than half the United States average.

Iraqis, Somalis, and Sudanese are more recent arrivals:
The pattern is roughly commensurate with how long immigrant communities have been in the United States, with nearly half of Iranians moving there before 1990. Nearly two-thirds of Iraqis, Somalis and Sudanese have arrived since 2000.

Most Are Now Citizens
Most United States residents from these seven countries have become citizens, a rate higher than that of the foreign-born population in the country as a whole. A small number, about 10,000, have served in the American military.


Three Were Involved in Attacks
Of the more than 856,000 immigrants, visa holders and green-card holders originally from the countries affected by the ban, just three are known to have carried out violent attacks inside the United States since Sept. 11, 2001, according to David Sterman, an analyst at the New America think tank who maintains a database of terrorist attacks in the United States.

...Since Sept. 11, 2001, a vast majority of the perpetrators of terrorist attacks came from countries not listed in the ban, and many were born in the United States.

Your premise that most Islamic Terrorists are not educated and do not have degrees is incredibly silly.

You seem to think that all Islamic Terrorists are sand people who suddenly emerge from their caves and decide to become Islamic Terrorists and then either blow themselves up or crash aeroplanes into tall buildings

That isn't my premise Lucy.

 

[Coyote]

The article is not arguing that. It's stating that they don't need to be BANNED.

That is exactly what the NYTimes is arguing...Now they aren't so foolish as to come right out and say it in plain language, but if you think for a second that their objective isn't to soften image of those under prospective halt to immigration then you are fooling yourself respectfully.

It is not saying "we should just ignore the threat from those countries" at all.

No, you're right...Instead it is more insidious...It argues by painting people from those countries trying to get here as just highly educated doctors, and engineers....I call BS...What's even worse is that they cite a radically left wing think tank for evidence to bolster their conclusion....

Are you talking about all travelers from those countries? Those countries are on DHS' list of special concern, they are exempt from the VISA waiver program, and travelers do recieve additional scrutiny. But the levels of scrutiny probably depend on the types of visas involved. Only refugees admitted under our refugee program get the most extreme level of vetting that can take years, and that would include Libyan and Yemeni refugees.

Ok, if you are sure of that, then it should be easy for you to show me proof of how people from Yemen, or Libya are vetted.

I'm not a professional. What I provided was articles on it from people who, presumably know what they are doing. Added to that is the fact that there have been very few "failures" in relation to the people coming in. No system is 100% perfect.

 

[Coyote]

Combatants don't have borders in this war, which is why better and more complete vetting makes perfect sense. There does seem to be training nations and those happen to be the basis of the current Trump list.

Ok.

Specifically - "how" better? What would you do differently?

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

An informative read...some facts that don't fit the rampant stereotyping of immigrants and refugees coming over to the US. Given their rates of citizenship, and the fact that far more served in the army than committed terrorist acts, it's hard to make the argument that they "hate America", "hate western values" and "want to destroy us".

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/30/us/politics/trump-immigration-ban-demographics.html

Many have college degrees
As a whole, residents from the seven predominantly Muslim countries, especially Iranians and the small group of Libyans, are better educated than the rest of America. People from Syria and Sudan also tend to be better educated than the national average.

Some have prospered
Residents from Iran, Syria and Libya, who are more likely than the population as a whole to be managers, engineers and teachers, make close to or above the median income for the entire American population.

Somalis and Sudanese are overrepresented in blue-collar jobs in manufacturing and transportation, and make less. The median income of Somalis is less than half the United States average.

Iraqis, Somalis, and Sudanese are more recent arrivals:
The pattern is roughly commensurate with how long immigrant communities have been in the United States, with nearly half of Iranians moving there before 1990. Nearly two-thirds of Iraqis, Somalis and Sudanese have arrived since 2000.

Most Are Now Citizens
Most United States residents from these seven countries have become citizens, a rate higher than that of the foreign-born population in the country as a whole. A small number, about 10,000, have served in the American military.


Three Were Involved in Attacks
Of the more than 856,000 immigrants, visa holders and green-card holders originally from the countries affected by the ban, just three are known to have carried out violent attacks inside the United States since Sept. 11, 2001, according to David Sterman, an analyst at the New America think tank who maintains a database of terrorist attacks in the United States.

...Since Sept. 11, 2001, a vast majority of the perpetrators of terrorist attacks came from countries not listed in the ban, and many were born in the United States.

It's increasingly difficult for Europeans of Christian religion to emigrate to either America or Canada and that's even if they have a University degree, yet Muslims from EVERYWHERE on this planet are just now waved in and the Leftist's and the International Globalists literally crap themselves and throw MEGA tantrums if Muslims from EVERYWHERE are not just waved in.

Seems like there's an Agenda, well, we who are Red Pilled know that there's an Agenda.

More and more people each day are now choosing The Red Pill and it's a great thing to behold knowing this.

Come on Coyote, within the next year you'll have to decide which pill you want to take, do you want to stay with the Blue Pill or will you take the Red Pill and wake up to reality?

That's actually not true. For example, what countries provide the largest number of immigrants?

China
Nigeria
India
Brazil
Bangladesh
Mexico
Phillippines

Where I work, we hire internationally, we have a number of European faculty and have never had trouble getting them here. We also tend to get a number of Middle Eastern (most notably Iranian) graduate students and it's much more of a struggle to get them a passport.

I don't think it's at all harder for Christians to immigrate here (the list of countries would indicate that) - I think that not many Europeans (western Europeans) want to or need to immigrate to the US.

"That's actually not true. For example, what countries provide the largest number of immigrants?

China
Nigeria
India
Brazil
Bangladesh
Mexico
Phillippines"

But it is because none of those nations are European are they?

Of course the American Court system is stacked with Leftists and Cuckservatives and not ONE of them has been elected they've ALL been appointed either by Obama or that Cuckservative GWB, so they are bound to side with "muh poor refugee who might be a terrorist, but who the fuck cares, as long as they're Kebabs just allow them in or you are a fucking bigot"

You do realise Coyote darling that where there is a will there is a way? So what's going to happen is the next batch of Cultural Enrichers won't be getting into America, because all President Trump has to do is to write another Executive Order with different wording, different wording to such a degree that none of the Leftists, Cuckservatives, ACLU SJW POS can wet their panties about and shake their fists at.

The NEXT President Trump Executive Order is going to do what he intends this Executive Order to do, the difference is the NEXT one is going to fuck the American Traitors in the buttocks and there won't be a thing that they can do about it because it'll be airtight.

You're NOT going to Stump The Trump, you thought you would at the ballot box and look what happened with Madam President

 

[j-mac]

The article is not arguing that. It's stating that they don't need to be BANNED.

That is exactly what the NYTimes is arguing...Now they aren't so foolish as to come right out and say it in plain language, but if you think for a second that their objective isn't to soften image of those under prospective halt to immigration then you are fooling yourself respectfully.

It is not saying "we should just ignore the threat from those countries" at all.

No, you're right...Instead it is more insidious...It argues by painting people from those countries trying to get here as just highly educated doctors, and engineers....I call BS...What's even worse is that they cite a radically left wing think tank for evidence to bolster their conclusion....

Are you talking about all travelers from those countries? Those countries are on DHS' list of special concern, they are exempt from the VISA waiver program, and travelers do recieve additional scrutiny. But the levels of scrutiny probably depend on the types of visas involved. Only refugees admitted under our refugee program get the most extreme level of vetting that can take years, and that would include Libyan and Yemeni refugees.

Ok, if you are sure of that, then it should be easy for you to show me proof of how people from Yemen, or Libya are vetted.

I'm not a professional. What I provided was articles on it from people who, presumably know what they are doing. Added to that is the fact that there have been very few "failures" in relation to the people coming in. No system is 100% perfect.

On that we agree 100%...Heritage also agrees with you on this....

How the Refugee Vetting Process Works | The Heritage Foundation

All I am saying is that Trump is not wrong is wanting to be very careful in how he proceeds...After all he made that promise to the American people, and we are watching...That liberals are getting unhinged because he wanted to halt immigration from select countries that his own, as well as the previous administrations list of threat, for a brief time period to make sure that we are doing things properly is NOT wrong...And these people promising chaos if they reinstate it should be cracked down on harshly IMHO, under the law if they start damaging property, and hurting people should, and when it is resumed.

 

[saveliberty]

Combatants don't have borders in this war, which is why better and more complete vetting makes perfect sense. There does seem to be training nations and those happen to be the basis of the current Trump list.

Ok.

Specifically - "how" better? What would you do differently?

I would have folks flying internationally to understand traveling outside your planned and filed destination may bar you from reentering.

Limit the acceptable activities in listed countries in order to return.

Require written, verifiable and signed lists of activities in the listed countries.

Temporarily limit the length of stay in listed countries to a week.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

An informative read...some facts that don't fit the rampant stereotyping of immigrants and refugees coming over to the US. Given their rates of citizenship, and the fact that far more served in the army than committed terrorist acts, it's hard to make the argument that they "hate America", "hate western values" and "want to destroy us".

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/30/us/politics/trump-immigration-ban-demographics.html

Many have college degrees
As a whole, residents from the seven predominantly Muslim countries, especially Iranians and the small group of Libyans, are better educated than the rest of America. People from Syria and Sudan also tend to be better educated than the national average.

Some have prospered
Residents from Iran, Syria and Libya, who are more likely than the population as a whole to be managers, engineers and teachers, make close to or above the median income for the entire American population.

Somalis and Sudanese are overrepresented in blue-collar jobs in manufacturing and transportation, and make less. The median income of Somalis is less than half the United States average.

Iraqis, Somalis, and Sudanese are more recent arrivals:
The pattern is roughly commensurate with how long immigrant communities have been in the United States, with nearly half of Iranians moving there before 1990. Nearly two-thirds of Iraqis, Somalis and Sudanese have arrived since 2000.

Most Are Now Citizens
Most United States residents from these seven countries have become citizens, a rate higher than that of the foreign-born population in the country as a whole. A small number, about 10,000, have served in the American military.


Three Were Involved in Attacks
Of the more than 856,000 immigrants, visa holders and green-card holders originally from the countries affected by the ban, just three are known to have carried out violent attacks inside the United States since Sept. 11, 2001, according to David Sterman, an analyst at the New America think tank who maintains a database of terrorist attacks in the United States.

...Since Sept. 11, 2001, a vast majority of the perpetrators of terrorist attacks came from countries not listed in the ban, and many were born in the United States.

It's increasingly difficult for Europeans of Christian religion to emigrate to either America or Canada and that's even if they have a University degree, yet Muslims from EVERYWHERE on this planet are just now waved in and the Leftist's and the International Globalists literally crap themselves and throw MEGA tantrums if Muslims from EVERYWHERE are not just waved in.

Seems like there's an Agenda, well, we who are Red Pilled know that there's an Agenda.

More and more people each day are now choosing The Red Pill and it's a great thing to behold knowing this.

Come on Coyote, within the next year you'll have to decide which pill you want to take, do you want to stay with the Blue Pill or will you take the Red Pill and wake up to reality?

That's actually not true. For example, what countries provide the largest number of immigrants?

China
Nigeria
India
Brazil
Bangladesh
Mexico
Phillippines

Where I work, we hire internationally, we have a number of European faculty and have never had trouble getting them here. We also tend to get a number of Middle Eastern (most notably Iranian) graduate students and it's much more of a struggle to get them a passport.

I don't think it's at all harder for Christians to immigrate here (the list of countries would indicate that) - I think that not many Europeans (western Europeans) want to or need to immigrate to the US.

"That's actually not true. For example, what countries provide the largest number of immigrants?

China
Nigeria
India
Brazil
Bangladesh
Mexico
Phillippines"

But it is because none of those nations are European are they?

Of course the American Court system is stacked with Leftists and Cuckservatives and not ONE of them has been elected they've ALL been appointed either by Obama or that Cuckservative GWB, so they are bound to side with "muh poor refugee who might be a terrorist, but who the fuck cares, as long as they're Kebabs just allow them in or you are a fucking bigot"

You do realise Coyote darling that where there is a will there is a way? So what's going to happen is the next batch of Cultural Enrichers won't be getting into America, because all President Trump has to do is to write another Executive Order with different wording, different wording to such a degree that none of the Leftists, Cuckservatives, ACLU SJW POS can wet their panties about and shake their fists at.

The NEXT President Trump Executive Order is going to do what he intends this Executive Order to do, the difference is the NEXT one is going to fuck the American Traitors in the buttocks and there won't be a thing that they can do about it because it'll be airtight.

You're NOT going to Stump The Trump, you thought you would at the ballot box and look what happened with Madam President

Loon.

 

[Tilly]

Hmmm. Scratch the surface:

Medical school of terror: More than 20 British students from the same university have fled to Syria to join ISIS

• Terrorists studied at Sudan's University of Medical Sciences and Technology
• 27 students and graduates have tried to join ISIS and 22 of these are British
• Dean Dr Ahmed Mohamed Zein said 4 or 5 British medics have been killed

By Charlie Moore For Mailonline

...The University of Medical Sciences and Technology in Khartoum has been exposed as a hotbed of extremism for British medics studying abroad.

Read more: 22 British students in Sudan fled to Syria to join ISIS | Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Tilly]

An informative read...some facts that don't fit the rampant stereotyping of immigrants and refugees coming over to the US. Given their rates of citizenship, and the fact that far more served in the army than committed terrorist acts, it's hard to make the argument that they "hate America", "hate western values" and "want to destroy us".

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/30/us/politics/trump-immigration-ban-demographics.html

Many have college degrees
As a whole, residents from the seven predominantly Muslim countries, especially Iranians and the small group of Libyans, are better educated than the rest of America. People from Syria and Sudan also tend to be better educated than the national average.

Some have prospered
Residents from Iran, Syria and Libya, who are more likely than the population as a whole to be managers, engineers and teachers, make close to or above the median income for the entire American population.

Somalis and Sudanese are overrepresented in blue-collar jobs in manufacturing and transportation, and make less. The median income of Somalis is less than half the United States average.

Iraqis, Somalis, and Sudanese are more recent arrivals:
The pattern is roughly commensurate with how long immigrant communities have been in the United States, with nearly half of Iranians moving there before 1990. Nearly two-thirds of Iraqis, Somalis and Sudanese have arrived since 2000.

Most Are Now Citizens
Most United States residents from these seven countries have become citizens, a rate higher than that of the foreign-born population in the country as a whole. A small number, about 10,000, have served in the American military.


Three Were Involved in Attacks
Of the more than 856,000 immigrants, visa holders and green-card holders originally from the countries affected by the ban, just three are known to have carried out violent attacks inside the United States since Sept. 11, 2001, according to David Sterman, an analyst at the New America think tank who maintains a database of terrorist attacks in the United States.

...Since Sept. 11, 2001, a vast majority of the perpetrators of terrorist attacks came from countries not listed in the ban, and many were born in the United States.

It's increasingly difficult for Europeans of Christian religion to emigrate to either America or Canada and that's even if they have a University degree, yet Muslims from EVERYWHERE on this planet are just now waved in and the Leftist's and the International Globalists literally crap themselves and throw MEGA tantrums if Muslims from EVERYWHERE are not just waved in.

Seems like there's an Agenda, well, we who are Red Pilled know that there's an Agenda.

More and more people each day are now choosing The Red Pill and it's a great thing to behold knowing this.

Come on Coyote, within the next year you'll have to decide which pill you want to take, do you want to stay with the Blue Pill or will you take the Red Pill and wake up to reality?

That's actually not true. For example, what countries provide the largest number of immigrants?

China
Nigeria
India
Brazil
Bangladesh
Mexico
Phillippines

Where I work, we hire internationally, we have a number of European faculty and have never had trouble getting them here. We also tend to get a number of Middle Eastern (most notably Iranian) graduate students and it's much more of a struggle to get them a passport.

I don't think it's at all harder for Christians to immigrate here (the list of countries would indicate that) - I think that not many Europeans (western Europeans) want to or need to immigrate to the US.

"That's actually not true. For example, what countries provide the largest number of immigrants?

China
Nigeria
India
Brazil
Bangladesh
Mexico
Phillippines"

But it is because none of those nations are European are they?

Of course the American Court system is stacked with Leftists and Cuckservatives and not ONE of them has been elected they've ALL been appointed either by Obama or that Cuckservative GWB, so they are bound to side with "muh poor refugee who might be a terrorist, but who the fuck cares, as long as they're Kebabs just allow them in or you are a fucking bigot"

You do realise Coyote darling that where there is a will there is a way? So what's going to happen is the next batch of Cultural Enrichers won't be getting into America, because all President Trump has to do is to write another Executive Order with different wording, different wording to such a degree that none of the Leftists, Cuckservatives, ACLU SJW POS can wet their panties about and shake their fists at.

The NEXT President Trump Executive Order is going to do what he intends this Executive Order to do, the difference is the NEXT one is going to fuck the American Traitors in the buttocks and there won't be a thing that they can do about it because it'll be airtight.

You're NOT going to Stump The Trump, you thought you would at the ballot box and look what happened with Madam President

Loon.

Quit spamming your ad hominems.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

An informative read...some facts that don't fit the rampant stereotyping of immigrants and refugees coming over to the US. Given their rates of citizenship, and the fact that far more served in the army than committed terrorist acts, it's hard to make the argument that they "hate America", "hate western values" and "want to destroy us".

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/30/us/politics/trump-immigration-ban-demographics.html

Many have college degrees
As a whole, residents from the seven predominantly Muslim countries, especially Iranians and the small group of Libyans, are better educated than the rest of America. People from Syria and Sudan also tend to be better educated than the national average.

Some have prospered
Residents from Iran, Syria and Libya, who are more likely than the population as a whole to be managers, engineers and teachers, make close to or above the median income for the entire American population.

Somalis and Sudanese are overrepresented in blue-collar jobs in manufacturing and transportation, and make less. The median income of Somalis is less than half the United States average.

Iraqis, Somalis, and Sudanese are more recent arrivals:
The pattern is roughly commensurate with how long immigrant communities have been in the United States, with nearly half of Iranians moving there before 1990. Nearly two-thirds of Iraqis, Somalis and Sudanese have arrived since 2000.

Most Are Now Citizens
Most United States residents from these seven countries have become citizens, a rate higher than that of the foreign-born population in the country as a whole. A small number, about 10,000, have served in the American military.


Three Were Involved in Attacks
Of the more than 856,000 immigrants, visa holders and green-card holders originally from the countries affected by the ban, just three are known to have carried out violent attacks inside the United States since Sept. 11, 2001, according to David Sterman, an analyst at the New America think tank who maintains a database of terrorist attacks in the United States.

...Since Sept. 11, 2001, a vast majority of the perpetrators of terrorist attacks came from countries not listed in the ban, and many were born in the United States.

It's increasingly difficult for Europeans of Christian religion to emigrate to either America or Canada and that's even if they have a University degree, yet Muslims from EVERYWHERE on this planet are just now waved in and the Leftist's and the International Globalists literally crap themselves and throw MEGA tantrums if Muslims from EVERYWHERE are not just waved in.

Seems like there's an Agenda, well, we who are Red Pilled know that there's an Agenda.

More and more people each day are now choosing The Red Pill and it's a great thing to behold knowing this.

Come on Coyote, within the next year you'll have to decide which pill you want to take, do you want to stay with the Blue Pill or will you take the Red Pill and wake up to reality?

That's actually not true. For example, what countries provide the largest number of immigrants?

China
Nigeria
India
Brazil
Bangladesh
Mexico
Phillippines

Where I work, we hire internationally, we have a number of European faculty and have never had trouble getting them here. We also tend to get a number of Middle Eastern (most notably Iranian) graduate students and it's much more of a struggle to get them a passport.

I don't think it's at all harder for Christians to immigrate here (the list of countries would indicate that) - I think that not many Europeans (western Europeans) want to or need to immigrate to the US.

"That's actually not true. For example, what countries provide the largest number of immigrants?

China
Nigeria
India
Brazil
Bangladesh
Mexico
Phillippines"

But it is because none of those nations are European are they?

Of course the American Court system is stacked with Leftists and Cuckservatives and not ONE of them has been elected they've ALL been appointed either by Obama or that Cuckservative GWB, so they are bound to side with "muh poor refugee who might be a terrorist, but who the fuck cares, as long as they're Kebabs just allow them in or you are a fucking bigot"

You do realise Coyote darling that where there is a will there is a way? So what's going to happen is the next batch of Cultural Enrichers won't be getting into America, because all President Trump has to do is to write another Executive Order with different wording, different wording to such a degree that none of the Leftists, Cuckservatives, ACLU SJW POS can wet their panties about and shake their fists at.

The NEXT President Trump Executive Order is going to do what he intends this Executive Order to do, the difference is the NEXT one is going to fuck the American Traitors in the buttocks and there won't be a thing that they can do about it because it'll be airtight.

You're NOT going to Stump The Trump, you thought you would at the ballot box and look what happened with Madam President

Loon.

Nobody gives a crap what you think you ignorant buttfucker.

Countdown to your next vacation....

 

[Kosh]

False premise of why more vetting on immigrants from the list is needed.

What false premise?

The false premise that that the far left always runs that is not connected to reality!

You far left drones cheer and support violence like what ISIS does. So since the far left is a dangerous religion, show we ban all far left drones from the US?

No, the false premise is that these immigrants threaten the safety of the US. None of the 911 terrorists came from ANY of these countries.




Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

And proof the far left is running their religious narrative not connected to reality!

It doe snot matter where they come from, it matters where they can get radicalized.

Isis paying smugglers’ fees in recruitment drive among child refugees

Then again the far left does support ISIS!

 

[Kosh]

Just a question Coyote...Or a hypothetical if you will...Let's say a 20 yr old Somali refugee, goes off to Yemen for 2 months, and shows up at customs at La Guardia airport coming back home...Shouldn't he get some extra scrutiny? Aren't you curious as to why, and or what the hell he was over in Yemen for?

I am.

Yes he should. I would agree with that.

Amazingly the articles author paper, or the think tank they cited for their basis, does not.

It's something I have no problem with - extra scrutiny for those who have traveled back and forth between certain countries.

Then your article, which IMHO is total propaganda btw, is contradicted by you here...The article is arguing that there is, paraphrasing, 'nothing to see here' concerning these people because 1. Many are already citizens, or greencard holders, and 2. they are predominantly highly educated, so we should just ignore the threat from those countries...It's BS.

Coyote, do you believe that people coming from Yemen, or Libya are 'vetted'?

The article is not arguing that. It's stating that they don't need to be BANNED.

It is not saying "we should just ignore the threat from those countries" at all.

Are you talking about all travelers from those countries? Those countries are on DHS' list of special concern, they are exempt from the VISA waiver program, and travelers do recieve additional scrutiny. But the levels of scrutiny probably depend on the types of visas involved. Only refugees admitted under our refugee program get the most extreme level of vetting that can take years, and that would include Libyan and Yemeni refugees.

Yes you are a fra left drone and used a far left hack site for your "facts", thus you are pushing a religious agenda like all far left drones!