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One must never forget the sinister and diabolical Amish, the true source of all wars, plagues and bad football games.Anyway, all these 'better educated' peeps should be staying in and improving the their own countries and the lot of their fellow countrymen and women. The West should not be poaching educated people from these countries, it is selfish and unethical when the needs of their own nations are much, much greater.
Besides the huge risk of muslim immigrants being terrorists, which is obvious to almost everyone but the very naive, this country has a problem with having more workers than jobs. There should be a ban on all immigration until the unemployment picture gets better.
There is a far greater risk of white Christian right-wing terrorism. What are you doing about that? Are you banning right-wingers? Christians? You don't even call these people "terrorists". You call them "deranged" or "mentally ill".
Don't forget about the Amish, the Amish are dangerous and they're out of control
Hey JimBowie1958 Dragonlady forgot about the Amish
Actually what the intelligence community has told us is that it is impossible to properly vet them. Extreme vetting? It doesn't exist. Ask the FBI.The point of contention is not whether most of the refugees/illegal immigrants can or do succeed.Of course they don't have any significance to those who are already determined to view immigrants as slavoring rapists waiting in line to ravage our women and children and steal candy from babies.
The point is that those who enter our nation illegally or who come from nations that do not have an adequate system for vetting their own people should not be allowed into the nation as a means of reducing our exposure to terrorists.
It boils down to one question; Is our top priority that we protect our citizens or is it that enrich multinational corporations who want cheap labor while they cheer lead us in Koombyah nonsense so we feel better about letting them ass rape the whole country?
Who from those countries the EO banned is entering our country illegally? According to officials involved with refugees - from State Department to Intelligence, refugees already go through "extreme vetting".
An informative read...some facts that don't fit the rampant stereotyping of immigrants and refugees coming over to the US. Given their rates of citizenship, and the fact that far more served in the army than committed terrorist acts, it's hard to make the argument that they "hate America", "hate western values" and "want to destroy us".
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/30/us/politics/trump-immigration-ban-demographics.html
Many have college degrees
As a whole, residents from the seven predominantly Muslim countries, especially Iranians and the small group of Libyans, are better educated than the rest of America. People from Syria and Sudan also tend to be better educated than the national average.
Some have prospered
Residents from Iran, Syria and Libya, who are more likely than the population as a whole to be managers, engineers and teachers, make close to or above the median income for the entire American population.
Somalis and Sudanese are overrepresented in blue-collar jobs in manufacturing and transportation, and make less. The median income of Somalis is less than half the United States average.
Iraqis, Somalis, and Sudanese are more recent arrivals:
The pattern is roughly commensurate with how long immigrant communities have been in the United States, with nearly half of Iranians moving there before 1990. Nearly two-thirds of Iraqis, Somalis and Sudanese have arrived since 2000.
Most Are Now Citizens
Most United States residents from these seven countries have become citizens, a rate higher than that of the foreign-born population in the country as a whole. A small number, about 10,000, have served in the American military.
Three Were Involved in Attacks
Of the more than 856,000 immigrants, visa holders and green-card holders originally from the countries affected by the ban, just three are known to have carried out violent attacks inside the United States since Sept. 11, 2001, according to David Sterman, an analyst at the New America think tank who maintains a database of terrorist attacks in the United States.
...Since Sept. 11, 2001, a vast majority of the perpetrators of terrorist attacks came from countries not listed in the ban, and many were born in the United States.
Anyway, all these 'better educated' peeps should be staying in and improving the their own countries and the lot of their fellow countrymen and women. The West should not be poaching educated people from these countries, it is selfish and unethical when the needs of their own nations are much, much greater.
Besides the huge risk of muslim immigrants being terrorists, which is obvious to almost everyone but the very naive, this country has a problem with having more workers than jobs. There should be a ban on all immigration until the unemployment picture gets better.
There is a far greater risk of white Christian right-wing terrorism. What are you doing about that? Are you banning right-wingers? Christians? You don't even call these people "terrorists". You call them "deranged" or "mentally ill".
False premise of why more vetting on immigrants from the list is needed.
What false premise?
The false premise that that the far left always runs that is not connected to reality!
You far left drones cheer and support violence like what ISIS does. So since the far left is a dangerous religion, show we ban all far left drones from the US?
No, the false premise is that these immigrants threaten the safety of the US. None of the 911 terrorists came from ANY of these countries.
Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com
And proof the far left is running their religious narrative not connected to reality!
It doe snot matter where they come from, it matters where they can get radicalized.
Isis paying smugglers’ fees in recruitment drive among child refugees
Then again the far left does support ISIS!
When you make silly comments like that your credibility goes out of the window.
The fact of it is that crazies can come from any country in the world and the only guarantee of keeping them out is to lock down the US completely. And then they will have won.
Of course you will still have your domestic nuts to deal with and good luck with that.
You should get down on your hands and knees to give thanks that President Obama kept your country safe on his watch.
Exactly. Leftards always become so utterly terrified when anyone attempts to fix immigration and terrorism issues. It's astonishing and sickening.The false premise that that the far left always runs that is not connected to reality!
You far left drones cheer and support violence like what ISIS does. So since the far left is a dangerous religion, show we ban all far left drones from the US?
No, the false premise is that these immigrants threaten the safety of the US. None of the 911 terrorists came from ANY of these countries.
Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com
And proof the far left is running their religious narrative not connected to reality!
It doe snot matter where they come from, it matters where they can get radicalized.
Isis paying smugglers’ fees in recruitment drive among child refugees
Then again the far left does support ISIS!
When you make silly comments like that your credibility goes out of the window.
The fact of it is that crazies can come from any country in the world and the only guarantee of keeping them out is to lock down the US completely. And then they will have won.
Of course you will still have your domestic nuts to deal with and good luck with that.
You should get down on your hands and knees to give thanks that President Obama kept your country safe on his watch.
You should just stay on your knees.
VIDEO: Woman raised a Muslim tells the truth about Islam...
What do you think about what she says Coyote?
VIDEO: Woman raised a Muslim tells the truth about Islam...
What do you think about what she says Coyote?
Y'all quit skeerin me with those evil Amish. Hubby and I live in the midst of them.
I'll tell ya one hazard though... try com in around the bend of one of these country roads at a clip to find one of their carriages RIGHT THERE!
Sheesh. That'll cause your ass to swallow some seat cover.
Y'all quit skeerin me with those evil Amish. Hubby and I live in the midst of them.
I'll tell ya one hazard though... try com in around the bend of one of these country roads at a clip to find one of their carriages RIGHT THERE!
Sheesh. That'll cause your ass to swallow some seat cover.
There is nothing as frightening as the evil Amish, those radical extremists, get them rounded up and thrown into Gitmo.
Pictures from a Radical Extremist Amish Terrorist Training Camp, it's the wimmens also
Shoulder-held rocket launcher
The evil Amish also involved in the porn industry, evil Amish pushing porn on innocent teenagers
An informative read...some facts that don't fit the rampant stereotyping of immigrants and refugees coming over to the US. Given their rates of citizenship, and the fact that far more served in the army than committed terrorist acts, it's hard to make the argument that they "hate America", "hate western values" and "want to destroy us".
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/30/us/politics/trump-immigration-ban-demographics.html
Many have college degrees
As a whole, residents from the seven predominantly Muslim countries, especially Iranians and the small group of Libyans, are better educated than the rest of America. People from Syria and Sudan also tend to be better educated than the national average.
Some have prospered
Residents from Iran, Syria and Libya, who are more likely than the population as a whole to be managers, engineers and teachers, make close to or above the median income for the entire American population.
Somalis and Sudanese are overrepresented in blue-collar jobs in manufacturing and transportation, and make less. The median income of Somalis is less than half the United States average.
Iraqis, Somalis, and Sudanese are more recent arrivals:
The pattern is roughly commensurate with how long immigrant communities have been in the United States, with nearly half of Iranians moving there before 1990. Nearly two-thirds of Iraqis, Somalis and Sudanese have arrived since 2000.
Most Are Now Citizens
Most United States residents from these seven countries have become citizens, a rate higher than that of the foreign-born population in the country as a whole. A small number, about 10,000, have served in the American military.
Three Were Involved in Attacks
Of the more than 856,000 immigrants, visa holders and green-card holders originally from the countries affected by the ban, just three are known to have carried out violent attacks inside the United States since Sept. 11, 2001, according to David Sterman, an analyst at the New America think tank who maintains a database of terrorist attacks in the United States.
...Since Sept. 11, 2001, a vast majority of the perpetrators of terrorist attacks came from countries not listed in the ban, and many were born in the United States.
Combatants don't have borders in this war, which is why better and more complete vetting makes perfect sense. There does seem to be training nations and those happen to be the basis of the current Trump list.
Ok.
Specifically - "how" better? What would you do differently?
I would have folks flying internationally to understand traveling outside your planned and filed destination may bar you from reentering.
Limit the acceptable activities in listed countries in order to return.
Require written, verifiable and signed lists of activities in the listed countries.
Temporarily limit the length of stay in listed countries to a week.
What's DP? and no one could not argue that liberal politics are followed with a religious like fervor. At All.I sure hope English is not your first language. If it is may I suggest going back to school.False premise of why more vetting on immigrants from the list is needed.
What false premise?
The false premise that that the far left always runs that is not connected to reality!
Please provide evidence of this. One shred of evidence.You far left drones cheer and support violence like what ISIS does.
The "far left" is not a religion. How can one have a meaningful thoughtful discourse of dialogue when the other party is beyond comprehension.So since the far left is a dangerous religion, show we ban all far left drones from the US?
Hey man, I think I remember you from DP, anyway....One could argue that liberal politics is indeed followed with a religious like fervor....
Vetting should include a detailed list of people they interacted with that can be verified through communication. Job references, if they were there to work. Access to emails and internet use.
That is what is already done - access to cell phones, social media, etc. Additionally, over the course of several years they are interviewed multiple times with people trained to spot any discrepencies. If they just "can't tell" - that applicant gets rejected. No one WANTS to let in someone who is dangerous.
So, you're saying that a green card holder, or current visa holder coming into the US has to wait even if they already have the requisite papers? I don't think they do, and that is why I brought up my scenerio, and why the President wanted to pause to check procedures....Why is that wrong?
Why is it wrong? Because we already have a system in place to provide extra scrutiny to travelers from certain countries. They may not have to wait or they may indeed have to wait and they can be subject to additional interviews and checks when they arrive.
How Trump's travel ban affects green card holders and dual citizens - CNNPolitics.com
The Obama administration's travel restriction provided extra scrutiny to people who traveled to these seven countries -- Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Syria, Somalia, Libya and Yemen -- because they are hotbeds for foreign fighters. It did not specifically ban people from entering the US just because they were citizens from these seven countries. All were still eligible to apply and get interviewed, they just could not utilize the visa waiver program. It was not a complete ban.
In addition, traveling from certain countries can get you flagged or extra scrutiny from DHS: DHS Announces Further Travel Restrictions for the Visa Waiver Program | Homeland Security
So it is not as if the country has been standing still on this. If Trump's administration had taken the time to meet with and discuss these issues with DHS, State Department, etc - he would have realized this.
Well, first I'll answer your question...It is the President's pervue to ensure that the most that is possible is being done in the interest of the United States security. So, as 8USC1182 (f) outlines he can for whatever reason, or length of time halt immigration with a simple proclamation...Until which time that HE is satisfied that it is safe to resume...
Now, please answer my question...How do you suppose we vet anyone from countries, failed states like Yemen, or Libya that have NO effectual governments in place?
I have been repeatedly answering your questions. You are now throwing a new question into the mix and acting as if I am not answering your questions.
It's a bit of a fallacy to think you NEED an effectual government in place to vet or that having one in place makes for better vetting. It all depends on that government and it's relation to the citizenry. I can't find the source, but on the news I was listening to a week ago they talked about how some of the vetting occurred. Multiple, lengthy interviews over a period of months and years designed ot weed out any descrepencies. The people conducting the interviews have a lot of local and historical knowledge - for example they know what terrorist groups and militias were in an area during a certain time.
In fact, despite what people seem to think - very few refugees pass this vetting:
A fraction of people who seek refugee status in the U.S. are approved. Less than one-fourth of 1 percent of refugees on the planet are approved to come here. Leon Rodriguez, former head of Department of Homeland Security's Citizenship and Immigration Services, the federal agency that vets refugees, says agents already do "extreme vetting."
Trump Administration Considers Ways To Up Vetting Of Refugees
AMOS: Well, he tells me that it's already extreme. It includes extensive face-to-face interviews, five-six hours. And this is to determine credibility. If your story differs in the slightest detail, you can be denied. There are document checks, school records, marriage, birth certificates. The data is checked with nine law enforcement, intelligence and security agencies. There's a criminal background check, iris scan, DNA, fingerprints. There's a health check for communicable diseases. Here is Zach Zubair. He's a Syrian. He was resettled in Durham, N.C., six years ago. He was tortured in a Syrian prison. He says he remembers every single step at the U.S. embassy.
ZACH ZUBAIR: Definitely, they push hard. They try to find way not to accept people in general. They ask you all detail about your cases. They will ask you about all evidence that you have to support you cases. It's really tough.
AMOS: That's Zach Zubair. Now, Syrians, Iraqis and Iranian refugees are the most documented because there's extra security steps in their vetting.
Remember this?:
"With the U.S. and other countries on high alert for ISIS attacks, American authorities are warning the terror group’s followers may have infiltrated American borders with authentic-looking passports ISIS has printed itself with its own machines, according to an intelligence report obtained by ABC News.
The 17-page Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) Intelligence Report, issued to law enforcement last week, says ISIS likely has been able to print legitimate-looking Syrian passports since taking over the city of Deir ez-Zour last summer, home to a passport office with “boxes of blank passports” and a passport printing machine. Another passport office was located in Raqqa, Syria, which has long been ISIS’s de facto capital.
“Since more than 17 months [have] passed since Raqqa and Deir ez-Zour fell to ISIS, it is possible that individuals from Syria with passports ‘issued’ in these ISIS controlled cities or who had passport blanks, may have traveled to the U.S.,” the report says."
ISIS May Have Passport Printing Machine, Blank Passports
So they get extra scrutiny.
That is what is already done - access to cell phones, social media, etc. Additionally, over the course of several years they are interviewed multiple times with people trained to spot any discrepencies. If they just "can't tell" - that applicant gets rejected. No one WANTS to let in someone who is dangerous.
So, you're saying that a green card holder, or current visa holder coming into the US has to wait even if they already have the requisite papers? I don't think they do, and that is why I brought up my scenerio, and why the President wanted to pause to check procedures....Why is that wrong?
Why is it wrong? Because we already have a system in place to provide extra scrutiny to travelers from certain countries. They may not have to wait or they may indeed have to wait and they can be subject to additional interviews and checks when they arrive.
How Trump's travel ban affects green card holders and dual citizens - CNNPolitics.com
The Obama administration's travel restriction provided extra scrutiny to people who traveled to these seven countries -- Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Syria, Somalia, Libya and Yemen -- because they are hotbeds for foreign fighters. It did not specifically ban people from entering the US just because they were citizens from these seven countries. All were still eligible to apply and get interviewed, they just could not utilize the visa waiver program. It was not a complete ban.
In addition, traveling from certain countries can get you flagged or extra scrutiny from DHS: DHS Announces Further Travel Restrictions for the Visa Waiver Program | Homeland Security
So it is not as if the country has been standing still on this. If Trump's administration had taken the time to meet with and discuss these issues with DHS, State Department, etc - he would have realized this.
Well, first I'll answer your question...It is the President's pervue to ensure that the most that is possible is being done in the interest of the United States security. So, as 8USC1182 (f) outlines he can for whatever reason, or length of time halt immigration with a simple proclamation...Until which time that HE is satisfied that it is safe to resume...
Now, please answer my question...How do you suppose we vet anyone from countries, failed states like Yemen, or Libya that have NO effectual governments in place?
I have been repeatedly answering your questions. You are now throwing a new question into the mix and acting as if I am not answering your questions.
It's a bit of a fallacy to think you NEED an effectual government in place to vet or that having one in place makes for better vetting. It all depends on that government and it's relation to the citizenry. I can't find the source, but on the news I was listening to a week ago they talked about how some of the vetting occurred. Multiple, lengthy interviews over a period of months and years designed ot weed out any descrepencies. The people conducting the interviews have a lot of local and historical knowledge - for example they know what terrorist groups and militias were in an area during a certain time.
In fact, despite what people seem to think - very few refugees pass this vetting:
A fraction of people who seek refugee status in the U.S. are approved. Less than one-fourth of 1 percent of refugees on the planet are approved to come here. Leon Rodriguez, former head of Department of Homeland Security's Citizenship and Immigration Services, the federal agency that vets refugees, says agents already do "extreme vetting."
Trump Administration Considers Ways To Up Vetting Of Refugees
AMOS: Well, he tells me that it's already extreme. It includes extensive face-to-face interviews, five-six hours. And this is to determine credibility. If your story differs in the slightest detail, you can be denied. There are document checks, school records, marriage, birth certificates. The data is checked with nine law enforcement, intelligence and security agencies. There's a criminal background check, iris scan, DNA, fingerprints. There's a health check for communicable diseases. Here is Zach Zubair. He's a Syrian. He was resettled in Durham, N.C., six years ago. He was tortured in a Syrian prison. He says he remembers every single step at the U.S. embassy.
ZACH ZUBAIR: Definitely, they push hard. They try to find way not to accept people in general. They ask you all detail about your cases. They will ask you about all evidence that you have to support you cases. It's really tough.
AMOS: That's Zach Zubair. Now, Syrians, Iraqis and Iranian refugees are the most documented because there's extra security steps in their vetting.
Remember this?:
"With the U.S. and other countries on high alert for ISIS attacks, American authorities are warning the terror group’s followers may have infiltrated American borders with authentic-looking passports ISIS has printed itself with its own machines, according to an intelligence report obtained by ABC News.
The 17-page Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) Intelligence Report, issued to law enforcement last week, says ISIS likely has been able to print legitimate-looking Syrian passports since taking over the city of Deir ez-Zour last summer, home to a passport office with “boxes of blank passports” and a passport printing machine. Another passport office was located in Raqqa, Syria, which has long been ISIS’s de facto capital.
“Since more than 17 months [have] passed since Raqqa and Deir ez-Zour fell to ISIS, it is possible that individuals from Syria with passports ‘issued’ in these ISIS controlled cities or who had passport blanks, may have traveled to the U.S.,” the report says."
ISIS May Have Passport Printing Machine, Blank Passports
So they get extra scrutiny.
Even the ones born here become killing monsters many times over (recent FLA nightclub killer). Would not be here if the parents were not allowed in..........."properly vetted".....I got ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.
Not sure what that has to do with anything...we have all kinds of nutzo killers who's parents were at some point in our history "allowed in".
