Immigrants From Banned Nations: Educated, Mostly Citizens and Found in Every State

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Vetting should include a detailed list of people they interacted with that can be verified through communication. Job references, if they were there to work. Access to emails and internet use.

That is what is already done - access to cell phones, social media, etc. Additionally, over the course of several years they are interviewed multiple times with people trained to spot any discrepencies. If they just "can't tell" - that applicant gets rejected. No one WANTS to let in someone who is dangerous.

So, you're saying that a green card holder, or current visa holder coming into the US has to wait even if they already have the requisite papers? I don't think they do, and that is why I brought up my scenerio, and why the President wanted to pause to check procedures....Why is that wrong?

Why is it wrong? Because we already have a system in place to provide extra scrutiny to travelers from certain countries. They may not have to wait or they may indeed have to wait and they can be subject to additional interviews and checks when they arrive.

How Trump's travel ban affects green card holders and dual citizens - CNNPolitics.com
The Obama administration's travel restriction provided extra scrutiny to people who traveled to these seven countries -- Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Syria, Somalia, Libya and Yemen -- because they are hotbeds for foreign fighters. It did not specifically ban people from entering the US just because they were citizens from these seven countries. All were still eligible to apply and get interviewed, they just could not utilize the visa waiver program. It was not a complete ban.

In addition, traveling from certain countries can get you flagged or extra scrutiny from DHS: DHS Announces Further Travel Restrictions for the Visa Waiver Program | Homeland Security

So it is not as if the country has been standing still on this. If Trump's administration had taken the time to meet with and discuss these issues with DHS, State Department, etc - he would have realized this.

Well, first I'll answer your question...It is the President's pervue to ensure that the most that is possible is being done in the interest of the United States security. So, as 8USC1182 (f) outlines he can for whatever reason, or length of time halt immigration with a simple proclamation...Until which time that HE is satisfied that it is safe to resume...

Now, please answer my question...How do you suppose we vet anyone from countries, failed states like Yemen, or Libya that have NO effectual governments in place?

I have been repeatedly answering your questions. You are now throwing a new question into the mix and acting as if I am not answering your questions.

It's a bit of a fallacy to think you NEED an effectual government in place to vet or that having one in place makes for better vetting. It all depends on that government and it's relation to the citizenry. I can't find the source, but on the news I was listening to a week ago they talked about how some of the vetting occurred. Multiple, lengthy interviews over a period of months and years designed ot weed out any descrepencies. The people conducting the interviews have a lot of local and historical knowledge - for example they know what terrorist groups and militias were in an area during a certain time.

In fact, despite what people seem to think - very few refugees pass this vetting:

A fraction of people who seek refugee status in the U.S. are approved. Less than one-fourth of 1 percent of refugees on the planet are approved to come here. Leon Rodriguez, former head of Department of Homeland Security's Citizenship and Immigration Services, the federal agency that vets refugees, says agents already do "extreme vetting."​

Trump Administration Considers Ways To Up Vetting Of Refugees

AMOS: Well, he tells me that it's already extreme. It includes extensive face-to-face interviews, five-six hours. And this is to determine credibility. If your story differs in the slightest detail, you can be denied. There are document checks, school records, marriage, birth certificates. The data is checked with nine law enforcement, intelligence and security agencies. There's a criminal background check, iris scan, DNA, fingerprints. There's a health check for communicable diseases. Here is Zach Zubair. He's a Syrian. He was resettled in Durham, N.C., six years ago. He was tortured in a Syrian prison. He says he remembers every single step at the U.S. embassy.


ZACH ZUBAIR: Definitely, they push hard. They try to find way not to accept people in general. They ask you all detail about your cases. They will ask you about all evidence that you have to support you cases. It's really tough.


AMOS: That's Zach Zubair. Now, Syrians, Iraqis and Iranian refugees are the most documented because there's extra security steps in their vetting.​

Remember this?:

"With the U.S. and other countries on high alert for ISIS attacks, American authorities are warning the terror group’s followers may have infiltrated American borders with authentic-looking passports ISIS has printed itself with its own machines, according to an intelligence report obtained by ABC News.

The 17-page Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) Intelligence Report, issued to law enforcement last week, says ISIS likely has been able to print legitimate-looking Syrian passports since taking over the city of Deir ez-Zour last summer, home to a passport office with “boxes of blank passports” and a passport printing machine. Another passport office was located in Raqqa, Syria, which has long been ISIS’s de facto capital.

“Since more than 17 months [have] passed since Raqqa and Deir ez-Zour fell to ISIS, it is possible that individuals from Syria with passports ‘issued’ in these ISIS controlled cities or who had passport blanks, may have traveled to the U.S.,” the report says."

ISIS May Have Passport Printing Machine, Blank Passports

So they get extra scrutiny.

I am willing to bet that your ignorant ass has never traveled outside of this country into some of these hell holes. Do I win?

 

[Coyote]

It's something I have no problem with - extra scrutiny for those who have traveled back and forth between certain countries.

Then your article, which IMHO is total propaganda btw, is contradicted by you here...The article is arguing that there is, paraphrasing, 'nothing to see here' concerning these people because 1. Many are already citizens, or greencard holders, and 2. they are predominantly highly educated, so we should just ignore the threat from those countries...It's BS.

Coyote, do you believe that people coming from Yemen, or Libya are 'vetted'?

The article is not arguing that. It's stating that they don't need to be BANNED.

It is not saying "we should just ignore the threat from those countries" at all.

Are you talking about all travelers from those countries? Those countries are on DHS' list of special concern, they are exempt from the VISA waiver program, and travelers do recieve additional scrutiny. But the levels of scrutiny probably depend on the types of visas involved. Only refugees admitted under our refugee program get the most extreme level of vetting that can take years, and that would include Libyan and Yemeni refugees.

In a few months they will NOT be banned. Be patient!

So let's say your wife is from one of those countries, has a permanent green card, traveled out of the US and is banned from returning. How patient are you?

The ban does not apply to holders of green cards! Next stupid assertion....

It did until they were forced to fix it.

 

[Coyote]

That is what is already done - access to cell phones, social media, etc. Additionally, over the course of several years they are interviewed multiple times with people trained to spot any discrepencies. If they just "can't tell" - that applicant gets rejected. No one WANTS to let in someone who is dangerous.

So, you're saying that a green card holder, or current visa holder coming into the US has to wait even if they already have the requisite papers? I don't think they do, and that is why I brought up my scenerio, and why the President wanted to pause to check procedures....Why is that wrong?

Why is it wrong? Because we already have a system in place to provide extra scrutiny to travelers from certain countries. They may not have to wait or they may indeed have to wait and they can be subject to additional interviews and checks when they arrive.

How Trump's travel ban affects green card holders and dual citizens - CNNPolitics.com
The Obama administration's travel restriction provided extra scrutiny to people who traveled to these seven countries -- Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Syria, Somalia, Libya and Yemen -- because they are hotbeds for foreign fighters. It did not specifically ban people from entering the US just because they were citizens from these seven countries. All were still eligible to apply and get interviewed, they just could not utilize the visa waiver program. It was not a complete ban.

In addition, traveling from certain countries can get you flagged or extra scrutiny from DHS: DHS Announces Further Travel Restrictions for the Visa Waiver Program | Homeland Security

So it is not as if the country has been standing still on this. If Trump's administration had taken the time to meet with and discuss these issues with DHS, State Department, etc - he would have realized this.

Well, first I'll answer your question...It is the President's pervue to ensure that the most that is possible is being done in the interest of the United States security. So, as 8USC1182 (f) outlines he can for whatever reason, or length of time halt immigration with a simple proclamation...Until which time that HE is satisfied that it is safe to resume...

Now, please answer my question...How do you suppose we vet anyone from countries, failed states like Yemen, or Libya that have NO effectual governments in place?

I have been repeatedly answering your questions. You are now throwing a new question into the mix and acting as if I am not answering your questions.

It's a bit of a fallacy to think you NEED an effectual government in place to vet or that having one in place makes for better vetting. It all depends on that government and it's relation to the citizenry. I can't find the source, but on the news I was listening to a week ago they talked about how some of the vetting occurred. Multiple, lengthy interviews over a period of months and years designed ot weed out any descrepencies. The people conducting the interviews have a lot of local and historical knowledge - for example they know what terrorist groups and militias were in an area during a certain time.

In fact, despite what people seem to think - very few refugees pass this vetting:

A fraction of people who seek refugee status in the U.S. are approved. Less than one-fourth of 1 percent of refugees on the planet are approved to come here. Leon Rodriguez, former head of Department of Homeland Security's Citizenship and Immigration Services, the federal agency that vets refugees, says agents already do "extreme vetting."​

Trump Administration Considers Ways To Up Vetting Of Refugees

AMOS: Well, he tells me that it's already extreme. It includes extensive face-to-face interviews, five-six hours. And this is to determine credibility. If your story differs in the slightest detail, you can be denied. There are document checks, school records, marriage, birth certificates. The data is checked with nine law enforcement, intelligence and security agencies. There's a criminal background check, iris scan, DNA, fingerprints. There's a health check for communicable diseases. Here is Zach Zubair. He's a Syrian. He was resettled in Durham, N.C., six years ago. He was tortured in a Syrian prison. He says he remembers every single step at the U.S. embassy.


ZACH ZUBAIR: Definitely, they push hard. They try to find way not to accept people in general. They ask you all detail about your cases. They will ask you about all evidence that you have to support you cases. It's really tough.


AMOS: That's Zach Zubair. Now, Syrians, Iraqis and Iranian refugees are the most documented because there's extra security steps in their vetting.​

Remember this?:

"With the U.S. and other countries on high alert for ISIS attacks, American authorities are warning the terror group’s followers may have infiltrated American borders with authentic-looking passports ISIS has printed itself with its own machines, according to an intelligence report obtained by ABC News.

The 17-page Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) Intelligence Report, issued to law enforcement last week, says ISIS likely has been able to print legitimate-looking Syrian passports since taking over the city of Deir ez-Zour last summer, home to a passport office with “boxes of blank passports” and a passport printing machine. Another passport office was located in Raqqa, Syria, which has long been ISIS’s de facto capital.

“Since more than 17 months [have] passed since Raqqa and Deir ez-Zour fell to ISIS, it is possible that individuals from Syria with passports ‘issued’ in these ISIS controlled cities or who had passport blanks, may have traveled to the U.S.,” the report says."

ISIS May Have Passport Printing Machine, Blank Passports

So they get extra scrutiny.

I am willing to bet that your ignorant ass has never traveled outside of this country into some of these hell holes. Do I win?

Nope.

 

[Coyote]

An informative read...some facts that don't fit the rampant stereotyping of immigrants and refugees coming over to the US. Given their rates of citizenship, and the fact that far more served in the army than committed terrorist acts, it's hard to make the argument that they "hate America", "hate western values" and "want to destroy us".

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/30/us/politics/trump-immigration-ban-demographics.html

Many have college degrees
As a whole, residents from the seven predominantly Muslim countries, especially Iranians and the small group of Libyans, are better educated than the rest of America. People from Syria and Sudan also tend to be better educated than the national average.

Some have prospered
Residents from Iran, Syria and Libya, who are more likely than the population as a whole to be managers, engineers and teachers, make close to or above the median income for the entire American population.

Somalis and Sudanese are overrepresented in blue-collar jobs in manufacturing and transportation, and make less. The median income of Somalis is less than half the United States average.

Iraqis, Somalis, and Sudanese are more recent arrivals:
The pattern is roughly commensurate with how long immigrant communities have been in the United States, with nearly half of Iranians moving there before 1990. Nearly two-thirds of Iraqis, Somalis and Sudanese have arrived since 2000.

Most Are Now Citizens
Most United States residents from these seven countries have become citizens, a rate higher than that of the foreign-born population in the country as a whole. A small number, about 10,000, have served in the American military.


Three Were Involved in Attacks
Of the more than 856,000 immigrants, visa holders and green-card holders originally from the countries affected by the ban, just three are known to have carried out violent attacks inside the United States since Sept. 11, 2001, according to David Sterman, an analyst at the New America think tank who maintains a database of terrorist attacks in the United States.

...Since Sept. 11, 2001, a vast majority of the perpetrators of terrorist attacks came from countries not listed in the ban, and many were born in the United States.

Fifteen of the nineteen 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia and "well off" families. In England, it was found that dozens of Muslim physicians were plotting to carry out jihad against the west.
Education and income have no bearing on this. This hatred towards non-Islamic nations is one of the core principles of Islam and its Koran.

If that were the case we'd have tons more terrorists then we do. What the article is pointing out is that many of the immigrants and refugees from those countries have assimilated well and NOT produced terrorists.

 

[Coyote]

If I was writing the OP, I'd have taken this approach.

Sure hope we can quickly find a better vetting system and return to allowing law abiding Muslims into the country. They seem to have good educations and have found a place in our nation.

Suggesting they are just all wonderful belies what some have done. Making excuses doesn't really help either.

I've said this before and I'll say it again.

I support strong vetting on all those coming from those countries. I also support a constant review of policies and procedures to make sure we are addressing current concerns and to see where we have room for improvement.

Can we agree on that?

Where I disagree with, and why I can't frame it the way you suggest (which is good btw) is that I don't feel we necessarily need a "better vetting system" as such (to the extent that all travel must be halted) so much as we need to be open to constant improvement. I've listened to and read a number of interviews with people involved in vetting and they all feel that (in regards to refugees) - it IS very extreme already. None can think of specific things to do differently. The only thing that was mentioned, and that by Trump and his associates (none of whom talked with folks doing the vetting) was some kind of ideological/religious based questioning. That kind of approach is of dubious value since having a Quran in your suitcase doesn't mean you are an extremist or feeling that being gay is an abomination doesn't mean you are going to go out and start chucking them off the roof.

My purpose in the OP was two:
- the ban that the EO attempted was badly thought out, with no consultation or advise from any of the agencies or people actually involved in vetting. It was an ideologically spawned EO, not a fact based one. Would it have been asking to much to have put a little more thought into the crafting of it first?

- it has fed and encouraged what I see as a rabid attack on all immigrants and refugees from those area that does not seem to be related to what is really out there in our immigrant communities, as our OP points out. Many seem to be integrating well, have skills that we need, and are eager to become American citizens. How does that jive with the claim that they "hate America" and "hate American values"?

Yep! You don't like it because they implemented exactly the same type of controls Obama did and it destroys your Messiah's credibility!

Actually, it didn't...that's one of your "alternative facts".

Flawed comparison on immigration restrictions

no. You source is a front for the DNC.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

False premise of why more vetting on immigrants from the list is needed.

What false premise?

the false premise is the implication that your stats have any significance

Of course they don't have any significance to those who are already determined to view immigrants as slavoring rapists waiting in line to ravage our women and children and steal candy from babies.

Have you asked Europe how their immigrants are working out?

We're talking about immigrants in America. You do realize we a different country then the countries that make up Europe, right?

Europe's problem is with immigrants from the same countries that we slapped a ban on.

Do you deny this?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Then your article, which IMHO is total propaganda btw, is contradicted by you here...The article is arguing that there is, paraphrasing, 'nothing to see here' concerning these people because 1. Many are already citizens, or greencard holders, and 2. they are predominantly highly educated, so we should just ignore the threat from those countries...It's BS.

Coyote, do you believe that people coming from Yemen, or Libya are 'vetted'?

The article is not arguing that. It's stating that they don't need to be BANNED.

It is not saying "we should just ignore the threat from those countries" at all.

Are you talking about all travelers from those countries? Those countries are on DHS' list of special concern, they are exempt from the VISA waiver program, and travelers do recieve additional scrutiny. But the levels of scrutiny probably depend on the types of visas involved. Only refugees admitted under our refugee program get the most extreme level of vetting that can take years, and that would include Libyan and Yemeni refugees.

In a few months they will NOT be banned. Be patient!

So let's say your wife is from one of those countries, has a permanent green card, traveled out of the US and is banned from returning. How patient are you?

The ban does not apply to holders of green cards! Next stupid assertion....

It did until they were forced to fix it.

Really? Who "forced" them?

 

[Coyote]

What false premise?

the false premise is the implication that your stats have any significance

Of course they don't have any significance to those who are already determined to view immigrants as slavoring rapists waiting in line to ravage our women and children and steal candy from babies.

Have you asked Europe how their immigrants are working out?

We're talking about immigrants in America. You do realize we a different country then the countries that make up Europe, right?

Europe's problem is with immigrants from the same countries that we slapped a ban on.

Do you deny this?

Yup.

Europe's migrant crisis includes immigrants from those countries as well as a number of other countries. The situation is completely different. We're taking in vetted refugees, Europe's dealing with the equivalent of the Haitian boat crisis.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

the false premise is the implication that your stats have any significance

Of course they don't have any significance to those who are already determined to view immigrants as slavoring rapists waiting in line to ravage our women and children and steal candy from babies.

Have you asked Europe how their immigrants are working out?

We're talking about immigrants in America. You do realize we a different country then the countries that make up Europe, right?

Europe's problem is with immigrants from the same countries that we slapped a ban on.

Do you deny this?

Yup.

Europe's migrant crisis includes immigrants from those countries as well as a number of other countries. The situation is completely different. We're taking in vetted refugees, Europe's dealing with the equivalent of the Haitian boat crisis.

You cannot vet refugees! That is the point! A terrorist can pass him or herself off as a meek and mild-mannered refugee and with our current procedures, no one would be the wiser.

Why are you lying about this? What is your agenda? Do you want people to know you suffer from some mental issues?

 

[LuckyDuck]

An informative read...some facts that don't fit the rampant stereotyping of immigrants and refugees coming over to the US. Given their rates of citizenship, and the fact that far more served in the army than committed terrorist acts, it's hard to make the argument that they "hate America", "hate western values" and "want to destroy us".

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/30/us/politics/trump-immigration-ban-demographics.html

Many have college degrees
As a whole, residents from the seven predominantly Muslim countries, especially Iranians and the small group of Libyans, are better educated than the rest of America. People from Syria and Sudan also tend to be better educated than the national average.

Some have prospered
Residents from Iran, Syria and Libya, who are more likely than the population as a whole to be managers, engineers and teachers, make close to or above the median income for the entire American population.

Somalis and Sudanese are overrepresented in blue-collar jobs in manufacturing and transportation, and make less. The median income of Somalis is less than half the United States average.

Iraqis, Somalis, and Sudanese are more recent arrivals:
The pattern is roughly commensurate with how long immigrant communities have been in the United States, with nearly half of Iranians moving there before 1990. Nearly two-thirds of Iraqis, Somalis and Sudanese have arrived since 2000.

Most Are Now Citizens
Most United States residents from these seven countries have become citizens, a rate higher than that of the foreign-born population in the country as a whole. A small number, about 10,000, have served in the American military.


Three Were Involved in Attacks
Of the more than 856,000 immigrants, visa holders and green-card holders originally from the countries affected by the ban, just three are known to have carried out violent attacks inside the United States since Sept. 11, 2001, according to David Sterman, an analyst at the New America think tank who maintains a database of terrorist attacks in the United States.

...Since Sept. 11, 2001, a vast majority of the perpetrators of terrorist attacks came from countries not listed in the ban, and many were born in the United States.

Fifteen of the nineteen 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia and "well off" families. In England, it was found that dozens of Muslim physicians were plotting to carry out jihad against the west.
Education and income have no bearing on this. This hatred towards non-Islamic nations is one of the core principles of Islam and its Koran.

If that were the case we'd have tons more terrorists then we do. What the article is pointing out is that many of the immigrants and refugees from those countries have assimilated well and NOT produced terrorists.

I believe that Europe will dispute that many are assimilating well. Also, I didn't say that "most" terrorists are from affluent families or well educated. I am saying that their education and wealth background doesn't rule them out as has been shown. Another thing, most mosques being constructed here are getting some of their funding from Saudi Arabia, which is home to the ultra-strict Wahhabi sect. Out of 100 mosques studied in the U.S., 75 preach the hardline hatred that creates the "Future Bombers of America club."

 

[irosie91]

False premise of why more vetting on immigrants from the list is needed.

What false premise?

the false premise is the implication that your stats have any significance

Of course they don't have any significance to those who are already determined to view immigrants as slavoring rapists waiting in line to ravage our women and children and steal candy from babies.

Have you asked Europe how their immigrants are working out?

We're talking about immigrants in America. You do realize we a different country then the countries that make up Europe, right?

we are talking about a specific population of immigrants-----that are NOW flooding into both European countries and into the US because of the present situation in their native lands

 

[theHawk]

An informative read...some facts that don't fit the rampant stereotyping of immigrants and refugees coming over to the US. Given their rates of citizenship, and the fact that far more served in the army than committed terrorist acts, it's hard to make the argument that they "hate America", "hate western values" and "want to destroy us".

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/30/us/politics/trump-immigration-ban-demographics.html

Many have college degrees
As a whole, residents from the seven predominantly Muslim countries, especially Iranians and the small group of Libyans, are better educated than the rest of America. People from Syria and Sudan also tend to be better educated than the national average.

Some have prospered
Residents from Iran, Syria and Libya, who are more likely than the population as a whole to be managers, engineers and teachers, make close to or above the median income for the entire American population.

Somalis and Sudanese are overrepresented in blue-collar jobs in manufacturing and transportation, and make less. The median income of Somalis is less than half the United States average.

Iraqis, Somalis, and Sudanese are more recent arrivals:
The pattern is roughly commensurate with how long immigrant communities have been in the United States, with nearly half of Iranians moving there before 1990. Nearly two-thirds of Iraqis, Somalis and Sudanese have arrived since 2000.

Most Are Now Citizens
Most United States residents from these seven countries have become citizens, a rate higher than that of the foreign-born population in the country as a whole. A small number, about 10,000, have served in the American military.


Three Were Involved in Attacks
Of the more than 856,000 immigrants, visa holders and green-card holders originally from the countries affected by the ban, just three are known to have carried out violent attacks inside the United States since Sept. 11, 2001, according to David Sterman, an analyst at the New America think tank who maintains a database of terrorist attacks in the United States.

...Since Sept. 11, 2001, a vast majority of the perpetrators of terrorist attacks came from countries not listed in the ban, and many were born in the United States.

Highly educated Muslims have been carrying out many if not most terror attacks on US soil.

Nidal Hasan: Ft Hood shooter, son of Palestinian parents, Bachelor's in biochemistry
Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab: "Underwear bomber" degree in mechanical engineering from University College London.
Faisal Shahzad: Times Square bombing attempt, Pakistani-American, B.A. in computer applications and information systems, and Masters of Business Administration.
Mohamed Osman Mohamud: Portland car bomb plot, Somali-American student attended Oregon State Univeristy
Tsarnaev brothers: Boston Marathon bombers, Kalmyk/Kyrgyzstan-Americans, community college drop-out and one a student at Univ of Massachsetts Dartmouth.
Zale Thompson: Queens Hatchet attack, Muslim convert, attended Teachers College, Columbia University
Elton Simpson and Nadir Soofi: Curtis Culwell Center attack, student at Yavapai College, and Soofi a Pakistani-American, pre-med student at Univ of Utah.
Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez: Chattanooga shootings, electrical engineering degree from Univ of Tennessee.
Syed Farook & Tashfeen Malik: San Bernardino attack, Muslim Pakistani-Americans, Cal State University environmental engineering program & Bahauddin Zakariya Univ.
Barry Mohammed: Ohio machete attack: Muslim Guinea immigrant with green card. Worked in computer programming and IT.
Dahir A. Adan: Minnesota mall stabbing: Muslim born in Kenya, St. Cloud State Univ student majoriing in Info Systems.
Abdul Razak Ali Artan: Ohio State car attack, Somali Muslim refugee, logistics manager major at Fisher College of Business at time of attack.


Up until these maniacs attacked, they were usually described as the "nice Muslim" types. And these are just the attacks in the US. You progressive c*nts like to ignore the terror attacks that have happened in Europe and other regions.

 

[irosie91]

False premise of why more vetting on immigrants from the list is needed.

What false premise?

Here is a list of Muslim immigrants (or sons /daughters of Muslim immigrants) who have murdered Americans since 1972. This list consists of fatalities only where the Muslim immigrant actually murdered the victim. The list of attempted attacks, attempted murders, rapes, kidnappings, honor killings (all including countries which are on the ban list) are not included in this number. READ UP.


Date Country City Killed Injured Description

2017.01.31 USA Denver, CO 1 0 A pastor working as a security guard is shot to death at a transit office by a 'radicalized' Muslim.
2017.01.06 USA Fort Lauderdale, FL 5 6 A convert to Islam guns down five innocents in the baggage claim area of an airport.
2016.06.13 USA Orlando, FL 49 53 An Islamic extremist massacres forty-nine people at a gay nightclub.
2015.12.02 USA San Bernardino, CA 14 17 A 'very religious' Muslim shoots up a Christmas party with his wife, leaving fourteen dead.
2015.07.16 USA Chattanooga, TN 5 2 A 'devout Muslim' stages a suicide attack on a recruiting center at a strip mall and a naval center which leaves five dead.
2014.12.18 USA Morganton, NC 1 0 A 74-year-old man is shot several times in the head by a 'radicalized' ISIS supporter.
2014.09.25 USA Moore, OK 1 1 A Sharia advocate beheads a woman after calling for Islamic terror and posting an Islamist beheading photo.
2014.06.25 USA West Orange, NJ 1 0 A 19-year-old college student is shot to death 'in revenge' for Muslim deaths overseas.
2014.06.01 USA Seattle, WA 2 0 Two homosexuals are murdered by an Islamic extremist.
2014.04.27 USA Skyway, WA 1 0 A 30-year-old man is murdered by a Muslim fanatic.
2014.03.06 USA Port Bolivar, TX 2 0 A Muslim man shoots his lesbian daughter and her lover to death and leaves a copy of the Quran open to a page condemning homosexuality.
2013.08.04 USA Richmond, CA 1 0 A convert "on a mission from Allah" stabs a store clerk to death.
2013.04.19 USA Boston, MA 1 1 Jihadists gun down a university police officer sitting in his car.
2013.04.15 USA Boston, MA 3 264 Foreign-born Muslims describing themselves as 'very religious' detonate two bombs packed with ball bearings at the Boston Marathon, killing three people and causing several more to lose limbs.
2013.03.24 USA Ashtabula, OH 1 0 A Muslim convert walks into a church service with a Quran and guns down his Christian father while praising Allah.
2013.02.07 USA Buena Vista, NJ 2 0 A Muslim targets and beheads two Christian Coptic immigrants.
2012.11.12 USA Houston, TX 1 0 A 28-year-old American man is shot to death by a conservative Muslim over an alleged role in converting a woman to Christianity.
2012.01.15 USA Houston, TX 1 0 A 30-year-old Christian convert is shot to death by a devout Muslim for helping to convert his daughter.
2011.09.11 USA Waltham, MA 3 0 Three Jewish men have their throats slashed by Muslim terrorists.
2011.04.30 USA Warren, MI 1 0 A 20-year-old woman is shot in the head by her stepfather for not adhering to Islamic practices.
2010.04.14 USA Marquette Park, IL 5 2 After quarrelling with his wife over Islamic dress, a Muslim convert shoots his family members to 'take them back to Allah' and out of the 'world of sinners'.
2009.12.04 USA Binghamton, NY 1 0 A non-Muslim Islamic studies professor is stabbed to death by a Muslim grad student in revenge for 'persecuted' Muslims.
2009.11.05 USA Ft. Hood, TX 13 31 A Muslim psychiatrist guns down thirteen unarmed soldiers while yelling praises to Allah.
2009.11.02 USA Glendale, AZ 1 1 A woman dies from injuries suffered when her father runs her down with a car for being too 'Westernized.' (10-20-09)
2009.06.01 USA Little Rock, AR 1 1 A Muslim shoots a local soldier to death inside a recruiting center explicitly in the name of Allah.
2009.04.12 USA Phoenix, AZ 2 0 A man shoots his brother-in-law and another man to death after finding out that they visited a strip club, in contradiction to Islamic values.
2009.02.12 USA Buffalo, NY 1 0 The founder of a Muslim TV station beheads his wife in the hallway for seeking a divorce.
2008.07.06 USA Jonesboro, GA 1 0 A devout Muslim strangles his 25-year-old daughter in an honor killing.
2008.01.01 USA Irving, TX 2 0 A Muslim immigrant shoots his two daughters to death on concerns about their 'Western' lifestyle.
2006.07.28 USA Seattle, WA 1 5 An 'angry' Muslim-American uses a young girl as hostage to enter a local Jewish center, where he shoots six women, one of whom dies.
2006.06.25 USA Denver, CO 1 5 Saying that it was 'Allah's choice', a Muslim shoots four of his co-workers and a police officer.
2006.06.16 USA Baltimore, MD 1 0 A 62-year-old Jewish moviegoer is shot to death by a Muslim medical student in an unprovoked terror attack.
2004.04.15 USA Scottsville, NY 1 2 In an honor killing, a Muslim father kills his wife and attacks his two daughters with a knife and hammer because he feared that they had been sexually molested.
2003.08.06 USA Houston, TX 1 0 After undergoing a 'religious revival', a Saudi college student slashes the throat of a Jewish student with a 4" butterfly knife, nearly decapitating the young man.
2002.10.22 USA Aspen Hill, MD 1 0 A bus driver is killed by Muslim snipers.
2002.10.14 USA Arlington, VA 1 0 A woman is killed by Muslim snipers in a Home Depot parking lot.
2002.10.11 USA Fredericksburg, VA 1 0 Another man is killed by Muslim snipers while pumping gas.
2002.10.09 USA Manassas, VA 1 1 A man is killed by Muslim snipers while pumping gas two days after a 13-year-old is wounded by the same team.
2002.10.03 USA Montgomery County, MD 5 0 Muslim snipers kill three men and two women in separate attacks over a 15-hour period.
2002.10.02 USA Wheaton, MD 1 0 Muslim snipers gun down a program analyst in a store parking lot.
2002.09.23 USA Baton Rouge, LA 1 0 A Korean mother is shot in the back by Muslim snipers.
2002.09.21 USA Montgomery, AL 1 1 Muslim snipers shoot two women, killing one.
2002.09.21 USA Atlanta, GA 1 0 Muslim terrorists gun down an employee at a liquor store.
2002.07.04 USA Los Angeles, CA 2 0 Muslim man pulls out a gun at the counter of an Israeli airline and kills two people.
2002.05.27 USA Denton, TX 1 0 Muslim snipers kill a man as he works in his yard.
2002.03.19 USA Tuscon, AZ 1 0 A 60-year-old man is gunned down by Muslim snipers on a golf course.
2001.09.11 USA New York, NY 2752 251 Islamic hijackers steer two planes packed with fuel and passengers into the World Trade Center, killing hundreds on impact and eventually killing thousands when the towers collapsed. At least 200 are seriously injured.
2001.09.11 USA Washington, DC 184 53 Nearly 200 people are killed when Islamic hijackers steer a plane full of people into the Pentagon.
2001.09.11 USA Shanksville, PA 40 0 Forty passengers are killed after Islamic radicals hijack the plane in an attempt to steer it into the U.S. Capitol building.
2000.03.17 USA Atlanta, GA 1 1 A local imam and Muslim spiritual leader guns down a deputy sheriff and injures his partner.
1997.04.03 USA Lompoc, CA 1 0 A prison guard is stabbed to death by a radical Muslim.
1997.03.23 USA New York, NY 1 6 A Palestinian leaves an anti-Jewish suicide note behind and travels to the top of the Empire State building where he shoot seven people in a Fedayeen attack.
1994.03.01 USA Brooklyn, NY 1 0 A Muslim gunman targets a van packed with Jewish boys, killing a 16-year-old.
1993.02.26 USA New York, NY 6 1040 Islamic terrorists detonate a massive truck bomb under the World Trade Center, killing six people and injuring over 1,000 in an effort to collapse the towers.
1993.01.25 USA Langley, VA 2 3 A Pakistani with Mujahideen ties guns down two CIA agents outside of the headquarters.
1990.11.05 USA New York City, NY 1 0 An Israeli rabbi is shot to death by a Muslim attacker at a hotel.
1990.01.31 USA Tuscon, AZ 1 0 A Sunni cleric is assassinated in front of a Tuscon mosque after declaring that two verses of the Qur'an were invalid.
1989.11.06 USA St. Louis, MO 1 0 A 17-year-old girl is stabbed to death by her parents for bringing 'dishonor' to their family by dating an 'infidel' African-American.
1980.08.31 USA Savou, IL 2 0 An Iranian student guns down his next-door neighbors, a husband and wife.
1980.07.22 USA Bethesda, MD 1 0 A political dissident is shot and killed in front of his home by an Iranian agent who was an American convert to Islam.
1977.03.09 USA Washington, DC 1 1 Hanifi Muslims storm three buildings including a B'nai B'rith to hold 134 people hostage. At least two innocents were shot and one died.
1974.04.16 USA Ingleside, CA 1 0 A man is killed while helping a friend move by Nation of Islam terrorists.
1974.04.01 USA Oakland, CA 1 1 A Nation of Islam terrorist shoots at two Salvation Army members, killing a man and injuring a woman.
1974.01.24 USA Oakland, CA 4 1 Five vicious shooting attacks by Nation of Islam terrorists leave three people dead and one paralyzed for life. Three of the victims were women.
1973.12.24 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 A man is kidnapped, tortured and decapitated by Nation of Islam terrorists.
1973.12.22 USA Oakland, CA 2 0 Nation of Islam terrorist kills two people in separate attacks on the same day.
1973.12.20 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 Nation of Islam terrorists gun down an 81-year-old janitor.
1973.12.13 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 A woman is shot to death on the sidewalk by Nation of Islam terrorists.
1973.12.11 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 A man is killed by Nation of Islam terrorists while using a phone booth.
1973.11.25 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 A grocer is killed in his store by Nation of Islam terrorists.
1973.10.29 USA Berkeley, CA 1 0 A woman is shot repeatedly in the face by Nation of Islam terrorists.
1973.10.19 USA Oakland, CA 1 1 Nation of Islam terrorists kidnap a couple and nearly decapitate the man, while raping and leaving the woman for dead.
1973.07.18 USA Washington, DC 8 2 Nation of Islam members shoot seven members of a family to death in cold blood, including four children. A defendant in the case is later murdered in prison on orders from Elijah Muhammad.
1973.07.01 USA Bethesda, MD 1 0 An Israeli diplomat is gunned down in his driveway by Palestinian terrorists.
1973.01.19 USA Brooklyn, NY 1 1 Muslim extremists rob a sporting goods store for weapons, gunning down a police officer who responds to the alarm.
1972.04.14 USA New York, NY 1 3 Ten members of a local mosque phone in a false alarm and then ambush responding officers, killing one.

These are only attacks in which fatalities occurred.

Islamic Attacks on America

You had to go back 35 years and that is it?

How do you know they are immigrants?

How do you know they are the sons and daughters of immigrants?

Nation of Islam members are neither. Nation of Islam is a home grown pseudo-Islamic cult..

wrong again----the NATION OF ISLAM is a project of oil wealthy muslims in SAUDI ARABIA---and was founded by an IMMIGRANT FROM SAUDI ARABIA---now known as "WALLACE FARD" (pen name-----sorta MOSQUE NAME) more than 85 year ago. The project was designed to draw the disenfranchised BLACK POPULATION into islam to as a fifth column group in the "CRUSADER" country-----the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA---- *) MORE THAN 85 YEARS AGO!!!!!!! to wit---
1930-----to lure the black population during the great depression. NOI is a muslim TROJAN HORSE

 

[theHawk]

Poor Coyote, another one of her pro-Islamist threads goes down in flames.

 

[irosie91]

EXTRA !!! EXTRA!! READ ALL ABOUT IT!!! newsflash----trump said something smart-----
in response to questioning of his "ban"----he said in sum and substance----'isis said they are going
to mix their agents into the migrant population........' ie----he is smart enough to BELIEVE THEM.

note ; this Friday in celebration of "allah day" Iranians will chant "DEATH TO AMERICA"
I am smart enough to believe that enough of them are so inclined

 

[Coyote]

An informative read...some facts that don't fit the rampant stereotyping of immigrants and refugees coming over to the US. Given their rates of citizenship, and the fact that far more served in the army than committed terrorist acts, it's hard to make the argument that they "hate America", "hate western values" and "want to destroy us".

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/30/us/politics/trump-immigration-ban-demographics.html

Many have college degrees
As a whole, residents from the seven predominantly Muslim countries, especially Iranians and the small group of Libyans, are better educated than the rest of America. People from Syria and Sudan also tend to be better educated than the national average.

Some have prospered
Residents from Iran, Syria and Libya, who are more likely than the population as a whole to be managers, engineers and teachers, make close to or above the median income for the entire American population.

Somalis and Sudanese are overrepresented in blue-collar jobs in manufacturing and transportation, and make less. The median income of Somalis is less than half the United States average.

Iraqis, Somalis, and Sudanese are more recent arrivals:
The pattern is roughly commensurate with how long immigrant communities have been in the United States, with nearly half of Iranians moving there before 1990. Nearly two-thirds of Iraqis, Somalis and Sudanese have arrived since 2000.

Most Are Now Citizens
Most United States residents from these seven countries have become citizens, a rate higher than that of the foreign-born population in the country as a whole. A small number, about 10,000, have served in the American military.


Three Were Involved in Attacks
Of the more than 856,000 immigrants, visa holders and green-card holders originally from the countries affected by the ban, just three are known to have carried out violent attacks inside the United States since Sept. 11, 2001, according to David Sterman, an analyst at the New America think tank who maintains a database of terrorist attacks in the United States.

...Since Sept. 11, 2001, a vast majority of the perpetrators of terrorist attacks came from countries not listed in the ban, and many were born in the United States.

Highly educated Muslims have been carrying out many if not most terror attacks on US soil.

You'd have a point if that were indeed the point made OP, but it's not. It's a strawman. Keep trolling.

 

[Tilly]

The title of this thread states that immigrants from temporarily banned nations are EDUCATED, and the article furthers the point that the immigrants from these temporarily banned nations are EDUCATED.
EDUCATION is definitely an issue raised in the OP title and in the article.
Many Islamic terrorists are EDUCATED, many educational establishments around the world and in the nations cited produce EDUCATED TERRORISTS. Thanks.

 

[Coyote]

Title of thread: Immigrants From Banned Nations: Educated, Mostly Citizens and Found in Every State

Opening Paragraph:

Immigration from the seven countries targeted by President Trump has been going on for decades but has never been much more than a trickle. Altogether, immigrants and visitors from those countries are about 2 percent of all foreign-born people living in the United States.

Most of these people are naturalized citizens and are not directly affected by the ban. But the status of tens of thousands of those with permanent resident status is not as clear, as administration officials have said they may be subject to greater scrutiny if they travel abroad.


And visa holders may not be able to return to the United States if they go out of the country.


Here’s a look at who these people are and how they have settled in the United States.​

Concluding paragraph:

Three Were Involved in Attacks
Of the more than 856,000 immigrants, visa holders and green-card holders originally from the countries affected by the ban, just three are known to have carried out violent attacks inside the United States since Sept. 11, 2001, according to David Sterman, an analyst at the New America think tank who maintains a database of terrorist attacks in the United States.


One of the attackers was born in Iran and was a naturalized citizen when he drove his S.U.V. into a crowd at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill in 2006.


The two others were born in Somalia and entered the United States as refugees. One of them stabbed at least 10 people in a mall in Minnesota. The other rammed a car into pedestrians on a sidewalk and stabbed students at the campus of Ohio State University. Both attacks occurred in 2016.


Since Sept. 11, 2001, a vast majority of the perpetrators of terrorist attacks came from countries not listed in the ban, and many were born in the United States.​

No one is claiming educated people don't become terrorists (strawman). What the article is repudiating is the idea that these people hate America, hate American values etc. and that they are not an asset to the US and that they're likely to be terrorists. Instead, they seem to assimilate well, become productive citizens and don't cause many problems..

Thank you.

 

[theHawk]

Title of thread: Immigrants From Banned Nations: Educated, Mostly Citizens and Found in Every State

Opening Paragraph:

Immigration from the seven countries targeted by President Trump has been going on for decades but has never been much more than a trickle. Altogether, immigrants and visitors from those countries are about 2 percent of all foreign-born people living in the United States.

Most of these people are naturalized citizens and are not directly affected by the ban. But the status of tens of thousands of those with permanent resident status is not as clear, as administration officials have said they may be subject to greater scrutiny if they travel abroad.


And visa holders may not be able to return to the United States if they go out of the country.


Here’s a look at who these people are and how they have settled in the United States.​

Concluding paragraph:

Three Were Involved in Attacks
Of the more than 856,000 immigrants, visa holders and green-card holders originally from the countries affected by the ban, just three are known to have carried out violent attacks inside the United States since Sept. 11, 2001, according to David Sterman, an analyst at the New America think tank who maintains a database of terrorist attacks in the United States.


One of the attackers was born in Iran and was a naturalized citizen when he drove his S.U.V. into a crowd at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill in 2006.


The two others were born in Somalia and entered the United States as refugees. One of them stabbed at least 10 people in a mall in Minnesota. The other rammed a car into pedestrians on a sidewalk and stabbed students at the campus of Ohio State University. Both attacks occurred in 2016.


Since Sept. 11, 2001, a vast majority of the perpetrators of terrorist attacks came from countries not listed in the ban, and many were born in the United States.​

No one is claiming educated people don't become terrorists (strawman). What the article is repudiating is the idea that these people hate America, hate American values etc. and that they are not an asset to the US and that they're likely to be terrorists. Instead, they seem to assimilate well, become productive citizens and don't cause many problems..

Thank you.

It is making the point that they are assimilated because they have higher education and good jobs. But they don't assimilate even with higher education and jobs, the amount of terror attacks by these types proves it. So using the excuse that they are have higher education and can "contribute" to society is non sequitur.

These people do not assimilate. Even if the first generation immigrants are non-violent, the second generation ones tend to be far more dangerous. Many of the terror attacks carried out in the US and Europe were committed by the children of immigrants from piss poor Islamic nations.

 

[theHawk]

the false premise is the implication that your stats have any significance

Of course they don't have any significance to those who are already determined to view immigrants as slavoring rapists waiting in line to ravage our women and children and steal candy from babies.

Have you asked Europe how their immigrants are working out?

We're talking about immigrants in America. You do realize we a different country then the countries that make up Europe, right?

Europe's problem is with immigrants from the same countries that we slapped a ban on.

Do you deny this?

Yup.

Europe's migrant crisis includes immigrants from those countries as well as a number of other countries. The situation is completely different. We're taking in vetted refugees, Europe's dealing with the equivalent of the Haitian boat crisis.

No, it's not that much different. Many attacks have come from Muslims that were in Europe long before the Syrian war. Many are second generation Muslims that were born in Europe. They are trying to multiply in numbers so they can grow demographically as well. All the more reason to keep them out.